27 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

At the Silverstone Museum last Friday it was interesting to see this - the second of the two Ferrari 330GTs which John Surtees had during his F1 Drivers World Championship-winning career with the team.

 

This is the one he was given as a bonus for his title-winning 1964 season - and such an evocative sight in its ageing paint finish...

 

 

 

The car (for the terminally boring) is Ferrari 330GT 2+2 chassis '6981GT', now back in British ownership I understand after years relatively untended in the US.  Its discriminating owner is preserving it in its Rosso Scura livery, areas from which the original paint has long since vanished having the exposed edges protectively varnished - for me, a nice touch.

 

John's preceding 330GT 2+2 had been chassis '5455GT', I believe.  That was the one which Mr Ferrari presented to him in reaction to having John arrive at Maranello in his BMW 507 V8.  "Unacceptable!", The Old Man had gasped, "You must drive a Ferrari", and hey presto he was issued with the 330GT.  John used to laugh about what happened next... "I thought how very nice for The Old Man to have given me that Ferrari. Under my contract they paid me quarterly - and when I got the next instalment I found they'd taken the cost of the car out of it!...".

 

Silverstone's little Museum... well, I'm a fan.  Often changing exhibits, consistently well worth a visit.

 

Ooh yes - BRM P15 V16 - another evocative survivor, the first original 1948-49 body buck, made by George Gray who was later commissioned to make the Vanwall GP car bodies - currently in the Silverstone Museum foyer as a taster for its BRM Collection display.

 

 

 

 

 

 

All Photos Copyright: GPL

 

DCN

 

PS - Apologies - I've just been told that the 330GT is only being displayed at Silverstone until the end of this month - so if you want to see it there, hurry. 

Edited by Doug Nye, 17 March 2025 - 09:36.

[kevins]

The 330GT was featured at the NEC show by Iain Tyrrell's Classic Workshop (at 3.30 if it does not automatically start there).
 
 
https://youtu.be/4sB..._jxn5BXc5&t=207

 

EDIT can't figure out how to embed the video.

Edited by kevins, 17 March 2025 - 10:21.

[john aston]

Also featured in Octane this month . Or was it C&SC? 

 

At the risk of a lifetime ban from Maranello, could this be the first  Ferrari Rat Rod ? 

 

I have been impressed by the museum on my three visits so far. Unlike the Donington museum  - which had been going to the dogs for years - the exhibits are superbly presented , with very well executed lighting and the signage is clear, accurate and almost typo free. The display of the Yardley BRM P153 was breathtakingly good.    

[David Lawson]

I took a snap of the car at the 2017 Italia Festival at Brands Hatch.

 

 

David

[BRG]

At the risk of a lifetime ban from Maranello, could this be the first  Ferrari Rat Rod ? 

 

No, there is a Ferrari Ratarossa living in southern England, using a Testarossa.  

 

But that 330GT deserves to be refurbished.  Patina is one thing, but that is just a rotten old car.

[Doug Nye]

Nonsense.  Even rotten old cars of worthwhile provenance are increasingly rare - and that increasing rarity alone confers added value within a discerning market.  

 

In contrast 'refurbished' 330GT 2+2s mean nothing; a pretty dull and hefty old banger merely powered by a decent V12 engine.  

 

And against that reality there's no point in looking as if it was made last Tuesday if in truth it was...

 

DCN

[BRG]

If it has 'worthwwhile provenance' then surely it deserves better treatment than being allowed to decay into an old banger.  I am sure that wasn't the condition of the car when JS was driving it after all.  Just because some muppet in the US  let it fall into disrepair, we shouldn't be celebrating such behaviour.  I used the word 'refurbishment' for a reason.  I would not want to see some glossy Sotheby's style blingy over-restoration.

[Doug Nye]

Market reality might seem perverse - but it prevails as long as the taste is there with funding to feed it. Two-pack paint, chromium plate and bling is - as you rightly infer - just soooo 1970s...or Gulf State, or Russian, or...

 

DCN

[Odseybod]

I vaguely remember Henry Manney had a similar 330 2+2 when he was based in Paris, though I think his was metallic blue. It seemed super-cool transport for an ex-pat US citizen in Forrin Parts.

 

I haven't yet got beyond the Silverstone Museum's caff, which is a less crowded alternative to the Paddock diner on event days. The fact that their top-notch burger (with waffles)is called a Gerhard is one of those simple things that appeals to this simple mind.

[68targa]

Not sure if this is JS's joining 'gift' or WDC present but either way it looks good in this setting.

 

 

photo from here and also on twitter and several other sites - original could be a factory pr photo.

https://follesetglor...uderia-ferrari/

[Myhinpaa]

Not sure if this is JS's joining 'gift' or WDC present but either way it looks good in this setting

 

Allegedly this 330 is "5577GT" ?

 

https://barchetta.me...stry/?i=6165529

 

http://www.330gt.com/Detail/5577.html

 

Use of photographs + export plate nos is a  bit confusing regarding relevant 330s entries.

 

http://www.330gt.com/Detail/5455.html

 

http://www.330gt.com/Detail/6981.html

 

Silverstone Museum's entry on their YouTube channel on "6981GT" 

 

https://www.youtube....lverstoneMuseum

[ensign14]

Silverstone's little Museum... well, I'm a fan.  Often changing exhibits, consistently well worth a visit.

Judging by the first pic, they're also changing the way out...

[chr1s]

Leave it as it is, they're only original once!

[davidbuckden]

Replying to David Lawson.

 

Me too. I had no idea of its provenance, but I sensed a quiet dignity about it.

 

The case for preservation over restoration is surely well made by this 365 GTB interior.  What on earth could be done to make this look any more absolutely 'right' than it does here?

[Pullman99]

I went, along with my wife, to Silverstone Museum yesterday; mainly to catch the John Surtees cars and bikes before they moved elsewhere at the end of March.   I hadn't been to the museum before and I must say they do a magnificent job of explaining the background and the technology of motorsport with a particular emphasis on Formula One.   Nice to see that there is much to learn as well of the history and archaeology of the Silverstone area.   Very good audio-visual content too with an innovative entrance experience and especially the theatre experience on exit.   I will definitely go back and the boss loved it too!

 

Totally agree with the sentiments of keeping the 330GT original

 

 

 

The Surtees TS7/01 was displayed next to the Ferrari.   Fond memories of seeing John Surtees winning the Oulton Park Gold Cup in 1970 in this car.   I took some film at that meeting which is now on You Tube from the National Motor Museum.   See link below:

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=3JLP6ma943I

[Charlieman]

I saw a splendid Bugatti Type 44 in the metal at Wiscombe Park a few years ago -- it even did a few runs up the hill. The photos at the link almost capture how gently it has been restored.

 

https://www.glenmarc.../108106/results

[Lee Nicolle]

There is patina then there is plain crap. A nice neat old vehicle showing its age is fine. A tatty old shitbox with all the paint missing is a tatty old shitbox. And needs to be restored. Though costs and budget are a consideration ofcourse.

Fake patina however is utter b/s and should be ignored.Spraying rusty bare metal with clear is NOT on.

[Doug Nye]

I can't stand indecisive people just sitting on the fence...

 

DCN

[BRG]

There is patina then there is plain crap. A nice neat old vehicle showing its age is fine. A tatty old shitbox with all the paint missing is a tatty old shitbox. And needs to be restored. Though costs and budget are a consideration of course.

Fake patina however is utter b/s and should be ignored.Spraying rusty bare metal with clear is NOT on.

I often don't agree with Lee, but he has got it just right here.  But we are apparently out-voted.

[GTMRacer]

There is patina then there is plain crap. A nice neat old vehicle showing its age is fine. A tatty old shitbox with all the paint missing is a tatty old shitbox. And needs to be restored. Though costs and budget are a consideration ofcourse.

Fake patina however is utter b/s and should be ignored.Spraying rusty bare metal with clear is NOT on.

 

It very much depends on the history and significance of said "**** box" unlike many things in this current world, these are not simple yes or no situations, nuances...

[Sterzo]

It very much depends on the history and significance of said "**** box" unlike many things in this current world, these are not simple yes or no situations, nuances...

Agreed, but I also agree with Lee Nicolle. If Surtees drove the car round Edenbridge in that state I'd say leave it as is. But its deterioration means it's nothing like the car he drove, and I'd rather see it restored to the way it was in period.

[Catalina Park]

If we listened to Lee not only would we repaint the car but we would also stick a Chev motor under the bonnet.

[jtremlett]

I rather think it is up to the owner what he wishes to do with it.  I did have a nice chat with him at the Brands Hatch event from which pictures have been posted above.  Either way, I do think restoration is a misnomer because it really means replacing a load of old bits with new bits.  So you might end up with something that looked like it did when John Surtees owned it but a large part of the whole being made up of parts that probably didn't exist and certainly weren't on the car when he owned it.  One of the reasons I don't own a classic (the other being money!) is that I would find it very hard to resolve the quandary of the originality versus the pristine.  I wonder if there would be a discussion about the car at all if it were "restored"?

[Doug Nye]

Indeed - restoration is itself a process of obliteration.  

 

And it's exactly the case that preservation 'as is', or restoration 'as was', is absolutely nobody else but the owner's choice.  

 

When Phil Hill and I used to help with the Collier Collection's Connoisseurship Symposia we always made it clear to our audience of high-rolling collectors that - while any decisions they might make regarding their property were totally their business and nobody else's - just don't always expect such interested blokes as ourselves to stand back in admiration and applaud...     

 

DCN

[Sterzo]

While I'm agreeing with everyone, I agree it's up to the owner. Hence my use of the phrase "I'd rather see it restored" rather than saying "it ought to be".

[Nemo1965]

Indeed - restoration is itself a process of obliteration.

And it's exactly the case that preservation 'as is', or restoration 'as was', is absolutely nobody else but the owner's choice.

When Phil Hill and I used to help with the Collier Collection's Connoisseurship Symposia we always made it clear to our audience of high-rolling collectors that - while any decisions they might make regarding their property were totally their business and nobody else's - just don't always expect such interested blokes as ourselves to stand back in admiration and applaud...

DCN

Interesting view, something Jay Leno talks about as well in this video (‘You would not take an old Chippendale dresser and refinish it’) about antique cars.

https://youtu.be/lAc...5PFr9iP3ipREfBm

[Sterzo]

Interesting view, something Jay Leno talks about as well in this video (‘You would not take an old Chippendale dresser and refinish it’) about antique cars.

https://youtu.be/lAc...5PFr9iP3ipREfBm

If he said ‘You would not take an old Chippendale dresser and refinish it’ he's actually wrong. There are companies that specialise in that, and indeed use modern glues and fillers for repairs.

[Nemo1965]

If he said ‘You would not take an old Chippendale dresser and refinish it’ he's actually wrong. There are companies that specialise in that, and indeed use modern glues and fillers for repairs.

 

I'm sure that Jay used this phrase rhetorically. Like in: 'You would not want Sam Elliot to take botox, would you?' Of course there are companies that do that, just like there are companies that would restore Surtees' Ferrari as if new. But the discussion above, in my view, was: SHOULD you?

 

For clarity, this is Sam Elliot:

 

Edited by Nemo1965, 28 March 2025 - 07:05.