112 replies to this topic

[FLB]

Well, if it's any indication of his popularity (or what grabs people's attention), his Australian incident is the first motorsport topic I've ever seen trending on Bluesky: Hadjar Crash — Bluesky

[SenorSjon]

With 100 people on BS, that shouldn't be too hard.

[sheSgoTthElooK]

I don't know.. I don't see anything in him. Red Bull will remain a one man show imo.

[Myrvold]

I genuinely feel bad for him.

 

But I have to admit that my first thought was Markos comments about certain other rookies...

[Mc_Silver]

https://www.instagra...WppOGV1YnY0YQ==

[Victor]

**** happens. I think it's never been as difficult as it is now to be a rookie in F1. Time is needed for new drivers to adapt. I feel sorry for Hadjar.

[PayasYouRace]

Luckily it’s only a week to the next one so he won’t have long to dwell on it. He can also take heart that some very experienced drivers made similar mistakes too.

[B Squared]

Prost was a DNS at Imola in 1991 as he took himself out in the Ferrari on the warmup lap iirc. A tough start, but he's not alone.

[FLB]

Prost was a DNS at Imola in 1991 as he took himself out in the Ferrari on the warmup lap iirc. A tough start, but he's not alone.

David Coulthard also spun from pole on the grid lap at Monza in 1995.

 

Patrick Carpentier and Pierre Houde on RDS (Canada) referenced Roberto Guerrero at Indy in 1992.

[jradicals]

Verstappen put it in the wall on the way to the grid at Hungary in 2020, not even on the formation lap....and he's done ok 

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Perez put it in the wall on the formation lap in Spa in 2021, and he's done... Well, what matters is that he put it in the wall on the formation lap.

[Anja]

Hadjar seems to be the kind of guy who wears his heart on his sleeve and I feel like some people want to interpret that as a sign of mental weakness, but it doesn't have to be one. He'll be ok. 

Edited by Anja, 16 March 2025 - 16:20.

[messy]

I like Hadjar. I think he comes across as quite a decent lad who's just very emotional, rather than some kind of aggressive prima donna. I genuinely felt for him when he dropped out today but he's been competitive this weekend, he'll be fine as long as he can bounce back.

[Myrvold]

https://www.instagra...WppOGV1YnY0YQ==

 

Compared to:

 

 

Red Bull senior advisor Helmut Marko had no room for sympathy after Isack Hadjar spun out of the Australian Grand Prix.

After Hadjar “put on a tearful show” as Marko branded it to Austrian broadcaster ORF, he grinned and added: “That was a bit embarrassing.”

 

https://www.planetf1...ralian-gp-crash

 

Or in German: https://www.motorspo...oestet-25031604

[Frood]

Does anyone have a number for John Hammond? One of his dinosaurs has escaped again.

[Autodromo]

The class showed by Anthony Hamilton was inspiring.

[jonpollak]

Absolutely Autodromo.

I was going to bring that up but then thought...If I make a thread about it it will be a dumpster fire and blah blah blah..

But then Myrv posted the story so...

So i'll just leave this here. A discussion on Reddit about the following.

 

[Motorsport-Total.com] Marko finds Hadjar's ‘tearful show’ ‘embarrassing’ - Hamilton Sr. comforts him

 

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 16 March 2025 - 19:24.

[Albertino]

Wouldn't have mattered if they kept the cameras off, not a fan of the overly intrusive media. Marko is an idiot.

[jonpollak]

Wouldn't have mattered if they kept the cameras off, not a fan of the overly intrusive media. Marko is an idiot.

Not possible in that paddock Albertino

Intrusive media is the way of the world and has been for a while now.

Jp

[balmybaldwin]

Horrible for him, but will hopefully make him stronger in the long run.  If he had dropped it in the race then he probably wouldn't have been shown so mch on the world feed I do think that was a bit over the top for a rookie.  e.g. Sainz was just as embarrasing silly error yet he didn't have the walk of shame treatment (which he could probably handle a lot better due to experience etc).

 

Anthony Hamilton is a class act

[Okyo]

Marko is a classless **** who shouldn't be allowed to come near any developing future talents. Not so surprising how RedBull is more famous for ruining young driver careers rather than developing them. 

[PlatenGlass]

Some guy was caught crying after spinning out of the 1999 Italian GP. Not on the warm-up lap or anything, but still crying. I can't quite remember who it was but I doubt he amounted to anything after such an embarrassing display.

[FLB]

Some guy was caught crying after spinning out of the 1999 Italian GP. Not on the warm-up lap or anything, but still crying. I can't quite remember who it was but I doubt he amounted to anything after such an embarrassing display.

He'd already won the World Championship once at that point, though 

 

I bought an issue of a (non-racing) magazine once because it had an interview with his then-wife Erja. She said it was the proudest she'd ever been of him, because he had a habit of not expressing his emotions, something she said was very common for Finnish men.

[Alfisti]

I said in the race thread the team bosses will see it as weak.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Devil's advocate time.  Maybe it's just my Eastern European upbringing talking, but if you mess up at work, and sob uncontrollably for a long time, do you think your stock would go up or down?  If you're lucky, there would be no 0 EQ assholes like Helmut Marko commenting on it, but do you think that people would quietly shrug and think "eh, that's normal"?

[Autodromo]

Devil's advocate time.  Maybe it's just my Eastern European upbringing talking, but if you mess up at work, and sob uncontrollably for a long time, do you think your stock would go up or down?  If you're lucky, there would be no 0 EQ assholes like Helmut Marko commenting on it, but do you think that people would quietly shrug and think "eh, that's normal"?

I think you cannot compare the pressures, mental and physical, of a sport with regular desk work.  I used to wrestle and pretty much everyone cried at one point during the season.  Losing is sooooo frustrating because you are 100% committed with all eyes on you.

[Marklar]

Drivers have cried often after races, it's more common than many believe and often not caught.

I do think there is a difference between just binning it in the midfield and binning it from a podium position with a midfield team or something like that, the latter is more "normal" to cry about because you missed a unique opportunity. But then again people often even cry in real jobs if they screwed up on their first day on the job.

I dont think he is weak for doing that, but the issue is that in this sport he *looks* weak if he is doing it.

Marko is an idiot though.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I know it's circular reasoning, but the reason it's perceived as weak is not because having emotions is weak, but rather being unable to control the display of emotions when you know it's going to be perceived as weakness is what is weak.  Whether such perception is warranted is not relevant if you want to be pragmatic, you know it's there so you have to fight to not fall to it.

[AlexPrime]

Marko is just a bad guy. As a Max and RBR fan I have sometimes tried to defend him, but he is a textbook definition of toxicity. I am usually against the woke in modern culture, but with men like him, I know why it appeared. Absolutely disgusting.

[JHSingo]

I don't think it shows weakness at all - it more shows how much it meant to him. Hell, in one weekend, Hadjar has displayed more passion than Lance Stroll has in years. 

 

Marko really needs to take his garbage opinions with him to the retirement home. It amazes me that given that the Red Bull junior programme has only manage to produce two F1 champions in the god knows how many years he's been in charge of it, Marko's opinions are still deemed as credible or worthy of being published. 

 

You know what's really embarrassing, Helmut? Putting the wrong driver in the second Red Bull for the umpteenth time. 

[Marklar]

You know what's really embarrassing, Helmut? Putting the wrong driver in the second Red Bull for the umpteenth time.

not like I'd like to defend the guy but Red Bull's recent calls on that matter are made by Horner

[expert]

Yeah and Horner was positive about Hadjar, so he'll be fine.

[expert]

I think they view Isaac as probably having a higher ceiling than Liam (and Yuki).    RB have been pretty transparent that they put Liam in there this year as they see him as "tougher" than Yuki (and Isaac).  i.e. they expect the person in that seat to get a thrashing and have to take it.  Perhaps by next year if he's in line for promotion Isaac won't have to worry about going next to Max... although the RBR will also likely only be a mid-field car by then if it isn't already....

[Analog]

Some guy was caught crying after spinning out of the 1999 Italian GP. Not on the warm-up lap or anything, but still crying. I can't quite remember who it was but I doubt he amounted to anything after such an embarrassing display.

That guy certainly had to endure a lot of ridicule from fans and media. Probably also from Marko.

[danmills]

I like Hadjar even more after this weekend, the passion from that mistake screams just how much this seat means to him and he's not some autonomous plug in driver churning out PR friendly chum. Remember his shot at the F2 title was also blown apart barely months ago.

 

He'll bounce back next week, Yuki proved the car has legs.

 

Was a big believer in Lawson too, but my goodness does he continue to chip at the hope, the difference is he's a lot more chipper, chin up, nextttt about it.

 

I much prefer the Hadjar reaction.

[Myrvold]

It amazes me that given that the Red Bull junior programme has only manage to produce two F1 champions in the god knows how many years he's been in charge of it, Marko's opinions are still deemed as credible or worthy of being published.

 

This is the weird hill I have decided to die on...

While Verstappen got his experience etc. in Toro Rosso and Red Bull, he's not a product of the Red Bull jr program. 

[expert]

Well to put that in context, since Vettel, there have only been 4 in total

 

Vettel

Hamilton

Rosberg
Verstappen

[Clatter]

https://www.instagra...WppOGV1YnY0YQ==

 

That was a really tender and classy moment.

[Clatter]

Prost was a DNS at Imola in 1991 as he took himself out in the Ferrari on the warmup lap iirc. A tough start, but he's not alone.

 

Really don't think the 2 incidents compare though. Prost had been in F1 for 10 years, and had 3 WDC's to his name. Very easy to say s*** happens with that experience. Very different when it's your first F1 race.

[Clatter]

This is the weird hill I have decided to die on...

While Verstappen got his experience etc. in Toro Rosso and Red Bull, he's not a product of the Red Bull jr program. 

 

Isn't Vettel in the same category?

[Myrvold]

Isn't Vettel in the same category?

 

Joint product with BMW, ye. But way more RB funded and RB jr than Verstappen.

[Muppetmad]

Hadjar isn't the first person to drop it on the way to the grid in mixed conditions (a certain reigning world champion did it once, and was fortunate to get away with it), and he won't be the last. Assuming he can put it behind him (and with the right support – i.e. not Marko – he will), barely anybody will remember this come the end of the season.

[Claudius]

This may sound callous but I like drivers that get tougher in adversity. If Hadjar learns from this than all is good. If he continues with similair reactions, then it will be perceived as weak.

 

And Anthony is a gem, a great human. 

[Marklar]

Hot take time: when drivers swear, throw/destroy things or shove others after disappointments...isn't it the same 'weak' reaction except it's less mature, so actually even worse? People tend to do these things because it's the only other way to let your emotions out to avoid crying.

it feels a bit like toxic masculinity.

[1player]

Hot take time: when drivers swear, throw/destroy things or shove others after disappointments...isn't it the same 'weak' reaction except it's less mature, so actually even worse? People tend to do these things because it's the only other way to let your emotions out to avoid crying.

it feels a bit like toxic masculinity.

People that cry when upset or throw things at the wall are exactly the same, it's part of being very emotional and it's pretty much normal in young people. I feel many viewers have forgot what it means to be a teenager and emotionally charged 24/7.

It'll go away, it's part of growing up. If at 30 years old they are still that emotional, then it becomes a problem.

I wouldn't worry too much at the "he needs to toughen up" talk. He's barely 20, he'll toughen up as he matures, like everybody else did.

[Sterzo]

It amazes me that given that the Red Bull junior programme has only manage to produce two F1 champions in the god knows how many years he's been in charge of it, Marko's opinions are still deemed as credible or worthy of being published.

Marko's been running the Red Bull programme for 23 years, 8 of which have had Red Bull world champions. If that's failure, I don't know what success looks like. He can only have one champion a year, after all.

[PayasYouRace]

Marko's been running the Red Bull programme for 23 years, 8 of which have had Red Bull world champions. If that's failure, I don't know what success looks like. He can only have one champion a year, after all.

 

None of those 8 were from the Red Bull Junior programme.

[Risil]

(I've split this out. Please carry on!)

[FirstnameLastname]

None of those 8 were from the Red Bull Junior programme.

Indeed. A high proportion of the fruit of the Junior program have been broken careers, dropped from the program - often never to be seen in F1 again, and left to rebuild their careers alone elsewhere

[FirstnameLastname]

Helmuts strategy seems to be akin to someone buying as many scratch cards as they can, and then when a couple of them are winners proclaiming the venture to be a grand success