49 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

In the race live thread on Sunday on here I was struck by how harsh many posters are about what they're watching.

 

Any driver making a mistake is pilloried.

 

All the teams strategies are wrong.

 

The stewarding is inept.

 

The (volunteer) marshals are no good.

 

We have people saying Hadjar is weak and will never make it as a result of being upset.

 

We have people who think racing in the rain isn't difficult.

 

And much of the language used - "useless" "LOL" "stupid" "sloppy" "terrible".

 

It just doesn't seem to square with any reasonable assessment of what we're watching.

 

 

[1player]

Social media thrives upon and concentrates any negative view vs positive ones. 

 

 

The answer is yes, of course, stop wasting your time on social media to enjoy anything in life.

[JimmyClark]

It's the case with everything related to social media - there is no room for nuance anymore, especially where everything now has to be condensed down to one soundbite (mainly due to the limited nature of postings on social media, which has crept into the mainstream too).

It's terrible.

[Vielleicht]

If anything, I think it has pushed me the opposite way.

I avoid the negativity as much as I can, regardless of whether that negativity is coming from internally or externally.

If I am enjoying what I see but I am surrounded by negative comments, I tend to see it as a sign to find a different community to enjoy this racing with.

If I am not enjoying what I see and become the source of the negativity, I will tend to see it as a sign that perhaps I should not be engaging with this racing or its communities.

So on the whole I think I have become a much ‘softer’ viewer, and my way of following is more carefully curated.

Edited by Vielleicht, 17 March 2025 - 11:00.

[Muppetmad]

It made me a harsher viewer for quite some time, certainly. I'm now very conscious of it, and tend to take a breath before posting. The occasional post of frustration will slip through, especially if it's something that has happened on multiple occasions (chiefly, Ferrari's strategy blunders). For the most part, though, I do my best to remember the drivers are (often) young people who have dedicated their lives to their craft, and are almost always worthy of respect as a result. It's also very easy to get sucked into letting individual incidents shape one's perceptions of things, but I've learned not to do that except in the most extraordinary of circumstances. Drivers are more than what they do in a split second on a given day, and when a driver derided by some as worthy of demotion to F2 on Saturday then drives the car to P4 on Sunday, it's fair to say responding in real time to every single event leads to premature/unfair judgements.

[BelievableNonsense]

The only type of 'social media' I can put up with/enjoy are forums and reddit. 

 

I find things like Instagram and twitter etc just all to reactionary and full of tribalism. 

[baddog]

Nah I remember people in the 80s being just as bad about whoever they didn't like. Its just that the audience for that buffoonery is global now.

 

I would say that I, a bit like the guy above, have become MUCH less inclined to harshly judge anyone in the sport. This could just be incipient old age though.

[Nemo1965]

I am more surprised by the harsh view of others. Past Sunday was a very enjoyable race and several people called it boring as dishwater. I don't get that. What are your expectations? Also the personalities of drivers are very quickly seen as very negative. There are so many drivers I like as personalities: Albon, Leclerc, Hulkenberg. Then there are personalities who are abrasive but also very funny in their unadaptive behavior Max, Alonso, Ocon. There is so much to enjoy, on top of excellent race-coverage by F1 TV. But if you read the threads the tone is so negative. That is why, I think, everyone enjoys the countdown thread so much: because even the most cancerous posters there prove they LOVE racing. They just don't seem to carry that love over to discussing the present. 

[SophieB]

I think it has to be remembered that the live race day threads lend themselves to speedy, shoot from the hip reactions to what is happening right there. I miss the old chat feature we had for this reason! It’s not the same thing as threads that contain people’s considered opinions.

[DaddyCool]

Casuals have always been like that well before social media, it's just the current trend of ragebait, manufactured drama and empty content overload that is more prominent.

 

Not surprised that drivers are fed up with media duties.

[Sterzo]

Once upon a time, long long ago, every pub had a bore in the corner sounding off about everything and talking ill-tempered rubbish. He's on social media now with a following of millions.

 

It's tough for young people because they are expected to be on social media. As an oldie, I've only ever been on Friends Reunited (remember that?) Facebook and Linked In, and have even left those now. I recently abandoned a one-make car forum because, although it was far from toxic, it was relentlessly negative about everyone and everything. It's just a choice we have to make.

 

One rule of thumb could be: if you wouldn't be allowed to say something about a fellow forum member, then don't say it about a public figure. If Horner, Marko and the Strolls were forum members, there'd be a fair few commenters in trouble.

[jonpollak]

I miss the old chat feature we had for this reason! It’s not the same thing as threads that contain people’s considered opinions.

We DO have noikeee’s Discord server.
https://discord.gg/Y9YSffk9

That’s a pretty good modern version of the old IRC.

Jp

[IrvTheSwerve]

Casuals have always been like that well before social media, it's just the current trend of ragebait, manufactured drama and empty content overload that is more prominent.

 

Not surprised that drivers are fed up with media duties.

SkyF1 uploaded a video to YouTube a couple of days ago with the title ‘Craig Slater’s CHAOTIC Australian Grand Prix update from Melbourne ’.

 

All that happened is that Slater had left his phone on a park bench that was retrieved literally 10 seconds later by the cameraman. This clickbait BS is out of hand now.

[DeKnyff]

I am more surprised by the harsh view of others. Past Sunday was a very enjoyable race and several people called it boring as dishwater. I don't get that. What are your expectations? Also the personalities of drivers are very quickly seen as very negative. There are so many drivers I like as personalities: Albon, Leclerc, Hulkenberg. Then there are personalities who are abrasive but also very funny in their unadaptive behavior Max, Alonso, Ocon. There is so much to enjoy, on top of excellent race-coverage by F1 TV. But if you read the threads the tone is so negative. That is why, I think, everyone enjoys the countdown thread so much: because even the most cancerous posters there prove they LOVE racing. They just don't seem to carry that love over to discussing the present. 

 

I called the race boring, because there were plenty of incidents, as opposed to on-track action. There was very little overtaking, if any (well, yeah, Piastri did one brilliant overtaking on the last lap) and the race itself was completely processional, Monaco style. No fights at the top, no fights at the midfield and no fights at the back. Even the much praised Antonelli, he could only win two positions in 32 laps with a much more competitive car, but then he leapfrogged six cars pitting at the correct moment. Ok, fine, good move, but I like it more when drivers progress through the field by their own means.

 

I don't think the race was enjoyable. The safety cars brought randomness and also some embarrassing mistakes, but this is not what I want to see in a F1 race. Randomness for the sake of it is not enjoyable.

[Whatisvalis]

The only type of 'social media' I can put up with/enjoy are forums and reddit. 

 

I find things like Instagram and twitter etc just all to reactionary and full of tribalism. 

 

I mean that's also most forums, and especially reddit - this place is no different.

[jonpollak]

 Randomness for the sake of it is not enjoyable.

I respectfully disagree.

Recently I have been playing around with A.I. and found randomness to be my best friend.

Here's my first successful creation which, thanks to a few added randomness prompts, came out gorgeous.

 

The race was fun and I embrace its randomness.

[pdac]

I blame Javascript for ruining the web.

[Nemo1965]

I called the race boring, because there were plenty of incidents, as opposed to on-track action. There was very little overtaking, if any (well, yeah, Piastri did one brilliant overtaking on the last lap) and the race itself was completely processional, Monaco style. No fights at the top, no fights at the midfield and no fights at the back. Even the much praised Antonelli, he could only win two positions in 32 laps with a much more competitive car, but then he leapfrogged six cars pitting at the correct moment. Ok, fine, good move, but I like it more when drivers progress through the field by their own means.

 

I don't think the race was enjoyable. The safety cars brought randomness and also some embarrassing mistakes, but this is not what I want to see in a F1 race. Randomness for the sake of it is not enjoyable.

 

First of all, you bring forth arguments for your opinion, which I appreciate. And you clearly saw the race - another thing why I would never question your opinion. I was not referring to your opinion, which was clearly not caused by social media. 

[Sterzo]

I called the race boring, because there were plenty of incidents, as opposed to on-track action. There was very little overtaking, if any (well, yeah, Piastri did one brilliant overtaking on the last lap) and the race itself was completely processional, Monaco style. No fights at the top, no fights at the midfield and no fights at the back. Even the much praised Antonelli, he could only win two positions in 32 laps with a much more competitive car, but then he leapfrogged six cars pitting at the correct moment. Ok, fine, good move, but I like it more when drivers progress through the field by their own means.

 

I don't think the race was enjoyable. The safety cars brought randomness and also some embarrassing mistakes, but this is not what I want to see in a F1 race. Randomness for the sake of it is not enjoyable.

Without contradicting what you say, I would add that I thoroughly enjoyed the race, because it was fundamentally about brilliant drivers visibly on the ragged edge in difficult conditions which punished the slightest mistake, and meant that the lead positions were in jeopardy. And there was enough of the race during which there was uncertainty about the three top positions, with no option to back off and cruise to the end.

 

I definitely agree that randomness and safety cars detract from a race, but on Sunday I didn't feel they intruded too much.

[mclarensmps]

Most of the fans on social media are the younger fans who are very much attuned to Social Media, where nuance is completely irrelevant and everything is in polarized. It's really unfortunate, but that's just the way things are.

[absinthedude]

I don't think it's changed how I view racing. But it has changed the way the majority of viewers communicate about it.

 

When I used to discuss F1 and other motorsport at school and later in the pub, later still on Usenet, there was always room for nuance. There were naive newbies of course, but they always listened to voices of experience. Nobody ever used words like "stupid" or "bone-headed" to describe everyday moves on the track or with strategy, those words were reserved for the occasional incidents which stuck out. Mistakes weren't always pilloried, it was understood that everyone involved was human and some slack was given towards occasional mistakes. 

 

I noticed when Red Bull went from winning everything to being occasional winners after Vettel's last title that Horner went off on social media berating Renault as if he somehow had a right to win every race with his cars. It was pretty childish but his social media followers lapped it up. 

 

I see it in so many posters seeing 2nd place by fractions of a second as being "such a loser" when it's still a phenomenal achievement. There is no room for ups and downs, no room for nuance any more. You're either the GOAT or you're useless, even "worst evaaaaaaah". 

 

the tribalism just doesn't sit well with me at all, as someone who experienced nearly 30 years of motor racing where it just wasn't such a thing. If I wanted tribalism, I'd have been into football.

 

But Liberty run with it because it generates clicks, and thereby generates revenue and that is now all that matters. And we are no longer in a world where the new fans have any interest in listening to experienced, older fans who have seen it all before and have informed opinions on why the current state of play is not sustainable. 

 

But it's not just here. Heck, I go onto a Facebook group for repairing vintage electronics and disagree with someone who says "replace every capacitor" because my informed opinion is that there are known bad capacitors which will need replacing and brands which are known to last 70+ years. But nope, I get insulted, called "stupid" or worse. 

 

I don't know where the blame lies. Maybe this is just the majority of humanity showing us it's unpleasant underbelly. Perhaps it was always there and social media is just a vehicle to display it. 

[absinthedude]

Once upon a time, long long ago, every pub had a bore in the corner sounding off about everything and talking ill-tempered rubbish. He's on social media now with a following of millions.

 

It's tough for young people because they are expected to be on social media. As an oldie, I've only ever been on Friends Reunited (remember that?) Facebook and Linked In, and have even left those now. I recently abandoned a one-make car forum because, although it was far from toxic, it was relentlessly negative about everyone and everything. It's just a choice we have to make.

 

One rule of thumb could be: if you wouldn't be allowed to say something about a fellow forum member, then don't say it about a public figure. If Horner, Marko and the Strolls were forum members, there'd be a fair few commenters in trouble.

 

The thing about the old pub bore was that he was generally harmless. Sometimes you even bought him a pint. 

 

Remember MySpace? Remember Bianca's Shack before even that? Heck I go back to pre-www chat clients in the late 80s. What's been lost is the understanding that one can like oranges without hating apples, pears, peaches and other fruits. And even if one doesn't like peaches, the ability to explain why they don't appeal gets drowned out by "I hate peaches" speech. 

 

As someone who still uses social media, it can be relentlessly like being beaten over the head with a stick. I regularly take breaks. 

[noikeee]

It's the internet in general, social media only turned it up a notch.

 

I remember explaining this forum to people in other corners of the web, and very quickly realising the extremes people went to hate or praise drivers in here were absolutely extraordinary. And by extent how quick everyone jumps to conclusions on drivers too.

[jonpollak]

I guess the secret is to use social media not have it use you.
I fear youngsters are just so gullible feeling the need to be a part of it that they can’t just go ‘ ahh this is bullschitt’ and go explore something else.

social media avenues certainly don’t help them grow as human beings

I’m sure it’s not as simple as that but it sure is to me.
Jp

[7MGTEsup]

I spend a lot more time reading than I do posting. I enjoy seeing other peoples thoughts but sometimes it gets very crazy and that's the point I drink up and leave.

[loki]

NosireeBob.

[William Hunt]

Honestly...it's better to stay away from social media (for your privacy as well and ps never use any product from Google or spywear app Whatsapp just saying...use ethical alternatives that don't steal your data and surfing profile and that don't manopilate behaviour. You have no privacy otherwise)

Edited by William Hunt, 17 March 2025 - 18:49.

[OvDrone]

Most 'lols' here are harmless. I type them a lot and it's not because of social media, it's my personality. 

I curate my social media extensively and do engage with as much discernment I can, discarding negative overreactions, bait, trolling, nonsense and brainrot. It's a very necessary skill nowadays. 

Think this thread is a bit of an overreaction to a perceived overreaction. I did not see anything worse in the Grand Prix thread than anything from the past 10+ years of being here or on any online board platform. I actually think things have improved here on that end. But nevertheless, a good discussion to have.

[pdac]

It's also easy to bait people's outrage - and I think that happens a lot. An example ... I was reading a forum about space exploration where someone asked the question "so, what do people think ... did a man really walk on the moon?". Oh, the amount of responses that generated.

[Claudius]

Most 'lols' here are harmless. I type them a lot and it's not because of social media, it's my personality.

I curate my social media extensively and do engage with as much discernment I can, discarding negative overreactions, bait, trolling, nonsense and brainrot. It's a very necessary skill nowadays.

Think this thread is a bit of an overreaction to a perceived overreaction. I did not see anything worse in the Grand Prix thread than anything from the past 10+ years of being here or on any online board platform. I actually think things have improved here on that end. But nevertheless, a good discussion to have.

That’s pretty much what I think. Some posters here seem to forget that they themselves were young and probably more partisan, it goes with the territory. I know I was, in the 90s and 00s.
Now I’m much more relaxed and neutral, or I try at least.

[absinthedude]

That’s pretty much what I think. Some posters here seem to forget that they themselves were young and probably more partisan, it goes with the territory. I know I was, in the 90s and 00s.
Now I’m much more relaxed and neutral, or I try at least.

 

 

Nah. Honestly in the 90s when I was on rec.autos.sport.f1 and rec.autos.sport.indy the partisanship was nothing like we see today. Maybe it's just that there were far fewer people on the internet 30 years ago. Those who were around were often accessing via academic institutions or were early adopting geeks. I do wonder if we simply weren't the kind of people who acted the way we see today. Prior to that, in the late 80s before the www even existed with live chat over JANet and Fidonet, the pool of users was even smaller and really was just limited to people with access via academic institutions. There was respect and there was nuance to discussions.....from discussing F1 to discussing politics. 

[NewMrMe]

I don't think dedicated forums such as this are too bad. One thing that makes them better than general social media is that they will only attract enthusiasts with a strong interest. People may have strong opinions but mostly people are respectful of those that support other drivers or teams.

 

General social media is another matter. That has become a complete cesspit. People will deride anyone who doesn't agree with them as ignorant fanboys, whilst their own posts often reveal a lack of understanding and knowledge. This has been the case for some time. Even pre-Facebook you could see this on things like the BBC site if they opened comments on an F1 article. What has made things even worse is that dedicated forums are becoming a rare thing, with discussions now moving to general social media, which means an even greater proportion of poor quality posts.

[noikeee]

Nah. Honestly in the 90s when I was on rec.autos.sport.f1 and rec.autos.sport.indy the partisanship was nothing like we see today. Maybe it's just that there were far fewer people on the internet 30 years ago. Those who were around were often accessing via academic institutions or were early adopting geeks. I do wonder if we simply weren't the kind of people who acted the way we see today. Prior to that, in the late 80s before the www even existed with live chat over JANet and Fidonet, the pool of users was even smaller and really was just limited to people with access via academic institutions. There was respect and there was nuance to discussions.....from discussing F1 to discussing politics.

Go look up threads from the archive in here, from the 2000s. It was ****ing total war.

Edited by noikeee, 17 March 2025 - 20:59.

[pdac]

That’s pretty much what I think. Some posters here seem to forget that they themselves were young and probably more partisan, it goes with the territory. I know I was, in the 90s and 00s.
Now I’m much more relaxed and neutral, or I try at least.

 

Yep. I'd say it's pretty much fact that young adults are very black and white on most issues. As people get older they realise that most things are not totally right or totally wrong and their opinions become more nuanced.

[The Passenger]

This forum is "social media", don't forget.

I read all the last race comments, and I found the posts to be overwhelmingly positive, but there are a few people who seemed to think all the best years of racing happened in their formative years, and that you can't have an opinion unless you remember all the races in history.

Yes, there's such a thing as Recency Bias, but there's also Hindsight Bias to be wary of.

[Alex79]

there are certain forms of social media that I avoid, as they only cater negative emotions like anger, envy or outright lying. yes I do visit certain forums but that is because sometimes there is still a form of discussion going on. on Facebook Insta or x responses need to be short and sharp and mostly are. I don't have the time or the patience to be outraged all the time so I don't use them. seems I am not missing much

Edited by Alex79, 18 March 2025 - 07:38.

[Nemo1965]

I've heard from the moderators that a poster had problems with the use of the word 'cancerous'. I wished that poster had approached me directly, or just expressed his displeasure in a reply. But here goes.

 

This is what I was referring to: in his book The 8th Habit, Stephen R. Covey identifies five cancerous behaviors that are destructive and will derail individual, team and organization performance.

 

They are:

 

Criticizing

Complaining

Comparing

Competing

Contending

 

In my view, this pertains directly to the problem we are discussing: a harsh and unfriendly way to discuss the sport we all (seem to) love. 

[Taxi]

I tend to see racing in a more analytical way now with all the data. But I mostly igone social media discussions, don't have the energy to do that.  

 

Then I fly to social media to see the memes (love the memes).  Then I fly to youtube to see some in dept analysis (more or less serious). Then I wait eagerly fot the Lollypop man video on youtube witch is a race highlight alongside the actual race. 

 

In the meanwhile come post here, the only place on the entire Internet I respect and get serious about F1. 

[RedRabbit]

I called the race boring, because there were plenty of incidents, as opposed to on-track action. There was very little overtaking, if any (well, yeah, Piastri did one brilliant overtaking on the last lap) and the race itself was completely processional, Monaco style. No fights at the top, no fights at the midfield and no fights at the back. Even the much praised Antonelli, he could only win two positions in 32 laps with a much more competitive car, but then he leapfrogged six cars pitting at the correct moment. Ok, fine, good move, but I like it more when drivers progress through the field by their own means.

I don't think the race was enjoyable. The safety cars brought randomness and also some embarrassing mistakes, but this is not what I want to see in a F1 race. Randomness for the sake of it is not enjoyable.

This was my take as well. The never ending SCs really sucked the interest out of the race.

About 5 laps in the missus asked how it was going. Told her I don't know because it's been under Safety Car the whole time.

FIA could do a lot to keep a race alive by speeding up some processes.

[PayasYouRace]

 

I've heard from the moderators that a poster had problems with the use of the word 'cancerous'. I wished that poster had approached me directly, or just expressed his displeasure in a reply. But here goes.

 

This is what I was referring to: in his book The 8th Habit, Stephen R. Covey identifies five cancerous behaviors that are destructive and will derail individual, team and organization performance.

 

They are:

 

Criticizing

Complaining

Comparing

Competing

Contending

 

In my view, this pertains directly to the problem we are discussing: a harsh and unfriendly way to discuss the sport we all (seem to) love. 

 

There is nothing cancerous about criticism or comparison. Why should we take. Steve’s take on the matter?

[F1 Mike]

It's not the criticism that's the problem, it's the disgusting way people go about it, almost like it's a life or death situation. Having differing opinions is what makes everyone human, but no need to be a dick about it

[pdac]

 

I've heard from the moderators that a poster had problems with the use of the word 'cancerous'. I wished that poster had approached me directly, or just expressed his displeasure in a reply. But here goes.

 

This is what I was referring to: in his book The 8th Habit, Stephen R. Covey identifies five cancerous behaviors that are destructive and will derail individual, team and organization performance.

 

They are:

 

Criticizing

Complaining

Comparing

Competing

Contending

 

In my view, this pertains directly to the problem we are discussing: a harsh and unfriendly way to discuss the sport we all (seem to) love. 

 

 

 

There is nothing cancerous about criticism or comparison. Why should we take. Steve’s take on the matter?

 

As I understand the meaning of the word (apart from the obvious medical meaning):

- something described as cancerous is something that is extremely unpleasant or distasteful

- someone who is described as cancerous is someone who tries to foster extremely unpleasant of distasteful thoughts in others

[Nemo1965]

As I understand the meaning of the word (apart from the obvious medical meaning):
- something described as cancerous is something that is extremely unpleasant or distasteful
- someone who is described as cancerous is someone who tries to foster extremely unpleasant of distasteful thoughts in others

Yes. Thank you.

[PayasYouRace]

As I understand the meaning of the word (apart from the obvious medical meaning):

- something described as cancerous is something that is extremely unpleasant or distasteful

- someone who is described as cancerous is someone who tries to foster extremely unpleasant of distasteful thoughts in others

Yes, and neither of those are inherently part of the act of comparison or criticism. Both are required for healthy discussion.

 

Fallacious appeals from authority, mind you, are cancerous to good discussion.

[jonpollak]

Again,
Lyn St.James said about her first drive in a Porsche 935.
‘You have to drive it or else it will drive you.’
Jp

[absinthedude]

Social media has not changed how I view motor racing.

 

It has changed how I view the human race. And not for the better. 

[Jellyfishcake]

I think whilst we as a forum aren't perfect, who could be, there's a significant difference between how the interactions and reactions go within threads with 90% being relatively constructive

If you comapre this to twitter then it's the opposite way around, with maybe only 10% of interactions able to be useful and interesting even when people disagree.

 

I think part of the issue with the modern social media type ones, is how everything is 'memed' and everything is about views/clickbat and this is a trend has spread from not just fans but the offical accounts.

When I first followed teams on twitter, it was a useful informative (but maybe not super interactive) system, now each post is made to gain engagement and nothing else.

 

 

When you turn drivers and teams into soundbites and memes, it's not surprisng to see the fans not interacting in pleasant ways.

[Red5ive]

Not so sure its social media as such (maybe more to do with DTS etc) but I think there are a lot of newer fans now (including on here) who dont seem to have ever grasped the subtler details of the sport. They tend to have a very simplistic black and white view of what they are seeing which leads to many of the judgemental comments referred to by the OP.

 

I think all the TV channels also have a part to play in this as they seem to favour the same simplistic approach - in order to stoke faux exciterment, drama etc where often none exists.

Edited by Red5ive, 19 March 2025 - 14:39.

[pdac]

Not so sure its social media as such (maybe more to do with DTS etc) but I think there are a lot of newer fans now (including on here) who dont seem to have ever grasped the subtler details of the sport. They tend to have a very simplistic black and white view of what they are seeing which leads to many of the judgemental comments referred to by the OP.

 

I think all the TV channels also have a part to play in this as they seem to favour the same simplistic approach - in order to stoke faux exciterment, drama etc where often none exists.

 

It's the technology that has allowed a small group or even an individual to broadcast their thoughts and views to millions of people almost instantaneously. In the past, that was not possible for most. Now, even journalists can bypass editorial scrutiny (and even for those who can't, the speed at which things can appear puts pressure on editors to reduce the level of scrutiny they perform).

[The Passenger]

For some reason, my reddit and Facebook algorithms have only just caught on in a big way to the fact that I'm into F1, and I have to say, I'm loving it.

I'm being fed official and fun content from all the teams and drivers and commentators, and it's great. It's drowning out a lot of political stuff that was depressing me, so I have to thank it for that.

Of course, I am remembering not to read the comments.