38 replies to this topic

[spiderek21]

Racefans.net:

Norris 8/10

Piastri 7/10

Leclerc 6/10

Hamilton 5/10

Verstappen 8/10

Lawson 2/10

Antonelli 7/10

Russell 8/10

Stroll 6/10

Alonso 4/10

Doohan 3/10

Gasly 6/10

Ocon 6/10

Bearman 4/10

Hadjar 3/10

Tsunoda 7/10

Albon 8/10

Sainz 3/10

Hulkenberg 7/10

Bortoleto 4/10

[MikeTekRacing]

7 for Piastri while only 8 for Norris is a bit weird. Piastri lost a lap and was brought into contention for points by the SC unlap. 

getting 2 points int he fastest car is not something to write home about. 

[7MGTEsup]

I feel Antonelli only ended up where he did due to all the safety cars. If it had been an uninteruppted race he would have struggled to be in the top 10.

[Ivanhoe]

AMuS

 

• Lando Norris – Note: 10/10
• Max Verstappen – Note: 09/10
• George Russell – Note: 09/10
• Andrea Kimi Antonelli – Note: 10/10
• Alexander Albon – Note: 09/10
• Lance Stroll – Note: 08/10
• Nico Hülkenberg – Note: 08/10
• Charles Leclerc – Note: 08/10
• Oscar Piastri – Note: 09/10
• Lewis Hamilton – Note: 07/10
• Pierre Gasly – Note: 07/10
• Yuki Tsunoda – Note: 09/10
• Esteban Ocon – Note: 07/10
• Oliver Bearman – Note: 03/10
• Liam Lawson – Note: 04/10
• Gabriel Bortoleto – Note: 06/10
• Fernando Alonso – Note: 04/10
• Carlos Sainz – Note: 07/10
• Jack Doohan – Note: 05/10
• Isack Hadjar – Note: 06/10

[MikeTekRacing]

Oscar getting the same as Max is a joke. 

[Button4life]

7 for Piastri while only 8 for Norris is a bit weird. Piastri lost a lap and was brought into contention for points by the SC unlap.
getting 2 points int he fastest car is not something to write home about.

It isn’t that weird. Norris got pole and won the race. It would be a bit odd to give him the same rating as Piastri.

[MikeTekRacing]

I feel Antonelli only ended up where he did due to all the safety cars. If it had been an uninteruppted race he would have struggled to be in the top 10.

It certainly helped but he did what he had to do and had strong enough pace. He made overtakes stick, also made a mistake and fully benefited from the SC. 

I think the good marks for him are because this is his first F1 weekend and he got a strong result when a lot of others struggled

[MikeTekRacing]

It isn’t that weird. Norris got pole and won the race. It would be a bit odd to give him the same rating as Piastri.

not sure if I was unclear. I think Norris should have got more and Piastri less

[Analog]

not sure if I was unclear. I think Norris should have got more and Piastri less

They both did more or less the same mistake at more or less the same time at more or less the same place, each of them hit more or less water and was more or less lucky. 

[Laster]

Racingnews365 ratings

1. Lando Norris      9.5

2. Alex Albon   9

3. Max Verstappen   9

4. George Russell   8

5. Yuki Tsunoda   8

6. Kimi Antonelli   7.5

7. Nico Hulkenberg   7.5

8. Lance Stroll   7

9. Oscar Piastri   7

10. Charles Leclerc   6.5

11. Lewis Hamilton   6.5

12. Pierre Gasly   6.5

13. Esteban Ocon   6

14. Gabriel Bortoleto 6

15. Jack Doohan       5

16. Isack Hadjar   4.5

17. Oliver Bearman    4

18. Carlos Sainz   4

19. Fernando Alonso   4

20. Liam Lawson   3

[MikeTekRacing]

They both did more or less the same mistake at more or less the same time at more or less the same place, each of them hit more or less water and was more or less lucky.

It’s small margins but if you look at the onboard Norris is able to return to the track quite a bit sooner thus he was probably slower/more in control.
Small margins, different outcomes. Can’t bring luck? They were dealt the same hand, same corner, same lap, same time (you can argue Norris was first so less chance to see something is wrong). Unfair to Norris to call it luck

[spiderek21]

Autosport notes anyone?

[mhno1f]

It’s small margins but if you look at the onboard Norris is able to return to the track quite a bit sooner thus he was probably slower/more in control.
Small margins, different outcomes. Can’t bring luck? They were dealt the same hand, same corner, same lap, same time (you can argue Norris was first so less chance to see something is wrong). Unfair to Norris to call it luck

From memory on the lap the rain started, and they had their off, Norris had lost 1 second to Oscar. So while there was no doubt a large element of luck, I do believe Oscar was pushing harder when he went off, which might have resulted in the slightly worse "off" - compared to Lando.

[crgboy007]

Autosport:

 

Norris 9

Verstappen 9

Russell 8

Albon 8

Tsunoda 8
Hulkenberg 7

Piastri 7

Antonelli 7

Gasly 6

Stroll 6

Hamilton 5

Ocon 5

Leclerc 5

Bortoleto 5

Alonso 4

Sainz 4

Doohan 4

Hadjar 4

Lawson 3

Bearman 3

[jcbc3]

I was in general agreement with Autosport but changed Albon, Russell and Yuki to 9's and Ocon and Piastri to a 6. In general I think that when you only disagree with a grade going 1 down or up, it's within a sensible tolerance. I didn't think any of the grades they gave was really out of whack.

[SenorSjon]

Piastri is a bit high for his mistake that cost him a podium.

[Analog]

It’s small margins but if you look at the onboard Norris is able to return to the track quite a bit sooner thus he was probably slower/more in control.
Small margins, different outcomes. Can’t bring luck? They were dealt the same hand, same corner, same lap, same time (you can argue Norris was first so less chance to see something is wrong). Unfair to Norris to call it luck

 

First of all - when you leave the track trough a puddle of water and onto the grass, "luck," or "chance," will play a huge part in the outcome. Skill comes in second. Remember that each centimeter of that rain soaked lawn will have different amounts of water, it is much less flat than a track, and they will have hit different bumps. Maybe a throttle trace could reveal who did it "better," but since the grip levels would be changing every moment, everything they do in that situation is a gamble. Furthermore, I did not say Norris was lucky, I said that they were "more or less lucky". If you'd ask Norris if he was lucky, I'm sure he'd say "yes".

 

One point difference is fair,   

[Mc_Silver]

What should Lando have done to get 10, honestly? Got pole, led the race from start to finish, got the fastest lap. He didn't put foot wrong despite all of the variables he faced throughout the race.

[7MGTEsup]

What should Lando have done to get 10, honestly? Got pole, led the race from start to finish, got the fastest lap. He didn't put foot wrong despite all of the variables he faced throughout the race.

 

He went off the track potentially costing him the win. And 10 is an impossible number to get as far as I'm concerned as no one is ever perfect.

[SenorSjon]

What should Lando have done to get 10, honestly? Got pole, led the race from start to finish, got the fastest lap. He didn't put foot wrong despite all of the variables he faced throughout the race.

 

Not go off track? We've seen Verstappen getting 9's for even more flawless races.

[Mc_Silver]

Not go off track? We've seen Verstappen getting 9's for even more flawless races.

Max also made a mistake and he even lost position to Oscar whereas Lando didn't lose any position but he got 9 as well.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 18 March 2025 - 15:30.

[Laptom]

Max also made a mistake and he even lost position to Oscar whereas Lando didn't lose any position but he got 9 as well.

 

To be honest, it also seemed that the RB was 2sec slower per lap than the Mclaren during a certain moment in the race.

I understand the error of Norris, and the one of Max, so I think the 9 for both are more than correct. Both did maximized the situation and delivered what was possible. 

I could even suggest that Max delivered (as a driver rating) more than Norris, but it is OK like this.

[MikeTekRacing]

First of all - when you leave the track trough a puddle of water and onto the grass, "luck," or "chance," will play a huge part in the outcome. Skill comes in second. Remember that each centimeter of that rain soaked lawn will have different amounts of water, it is much less flat than a track, and they will have hit different bumps. Maybe a throttle trace could reveal who did it "better," but since the grip levels would be changing every moment, everything they do in that situation is a gamble. Furthermore, I did not say Norris was lucky, I said that they were "more or less lucky". If you'd ask Norris if he was lucky, I'm sure he'd say "yes".

 

One point difference is fair,   

very much disagree. going from 2nd to a lap down vs barely losing any time and no position should not be 1 point difference.

Piastri had, as Norris, the best package for the weekend (by some margin at points). Coming in 9th with that? Seriously?

[MikeTekRacing]

Max also made a mistake and he even lost position to Oscar whereas Lando didn't lose any position but he got 9 as well.

Lando did not lose a position because the driver behind made a similar mistake.
But I agree with your overall point, not debating.

I would have given Norris a 10. What more does one have to bring home?

[kumo7]

i think eurosport is ok, AMuS is more agreeable. bearman 4 is too high. he single handedly destroyed the HAAS’ team efforts. Norris 9.5, hum because he went off the track? in that rain? Max a half point behind norris is a bit too high. perhaps 8.5.

[1player]

He went off the track potentially costing him the win. And 10 is an impossible number to get as far as I'm concerned as no one is ever perfect.

I find scoring that takes "what could've been" utterly ridiculous. I'll give this excellent movie a 7 because it could've turned out bad.

Edited by 1player, 18 March 2025 - 16:35.

[Mc_Silver]

i think eurosport is ok, AMuS is more agreeable. bearman 4 is too high. he single handedly destroyed the HAAS’ team efforts. Norris 9.5, hum because he went off the track? in that rain? Max a half point behind norris is a bit too high. perhaps 8.5.

[Analog]

very much disagree. going from 2nd to a lap down vs barely losing any time and no position should not be 1 point difference.

Piastri had, as Norris, the best package for the weekend (by some margin at points). Coming in 9th with that? Seriously?

Well, it seems as most of the professionals opinionists disagree with you and I can see why.

[MikeTekRacing]

Well, it seems as most of the professionals opinionists disagree with you and I can see why.

totally fair, I could care less what the opinionists say. A lot of them are wrong a lot of the time, I don't see any correlation between ideas being aligned with them and being correct.

[Analog]

Autosport:

 

Norris 9

Verstappen 9

Russell 8

Albon 8

Tsunoda 8
Hulkenberg 7

Piastri 7

Antonelli 7

Gasly 6

Stroll 6

Hamilton 5

Ocon 5

Leclerc 5

Bortoleto 5

Alonso 4

Sainz 4

Doohan 4

Hadjar 4

Lawson 3

Bearman 3

I'd give Antonelli an extra point. He was certainly wary of the importance of getting the car through qualifying and in the race he slowly increased the risk taking, as a sensible rookie should do. Ok, he had a spin, but going from 16th on the grid to 4th is pretty impressive by any standard, especially since many of those positions won was actual overtakes on track.
The other one that's wrong is Lawson. He should have been awarded a 1.

[SenorSjon]

I'd give Antonelli an extra point. He was certainly wary of the importance of getting the car through qualifying and in the race he slowly increased the risk taking, as a sensible rookie should do. Ok, he had a spin, but going from 16th on the grid to 4th is pretty impressive by any standard, especially since many of those positions won was actual overtakes on track.
The other one that's wrong is Lawson. He should have been awarded a 1.

 

He got 4 free positions with Piastri, Ferrari Stragedy and Tsunoda. 

 

The only 1 is Hadjar, binning it 100m from the grid. Lawson at least made it much farther than a certain 2x WDC.

[Laster]

Ok, he had a spin, but going from 16th on the grid to 4th is pretty impressive by any standard, especially since many of those positions won was actual overtakes on track.

He made five overtakes.
Hulk x2, Stroll x2 (he lost a place back to him during the stops) and Albon. The Albon overtake was good, but I'd be reticent to give him more than an 8, I'd give him a 7 myself. Most of the places gained was because of cars crashing or spinning ahead of him - Sainz, Alonso, Doohan, Hadjar, Piastri or making the wrong call in that final stop sequence - both Ferrari's & Tsunoda. He did perform well in the race but the error in qualifying brings him down, and he was on course for at best 10th or 9th in Mercedes and that's only if he found a way passed Alonso and Gasly. Ultimately it was the teams call to pit that saved his race, along with one very nice overtake on Albon that really made the difference.

Edited by Laster, 18 March 2025 - 19:04.

[MikeTekRacing]

He made five overtakes.
Hulk x2, Stroll x2 (he lost a place back to him during the stops) and Albon. The Albon overtake was good, but I'd be reticent to give him more than an 8, I'd give him a 7 myself. Most of the places gained was because of cars crashing or spinning ahead of him - Sainz, Alonso, Doohan, Hadjar, Piastri or making the wrong call in that final stop sequence - both Ferrari's & Tsunoda. He did perform well in the race but the error in qualifying brings him down, and he was on course for at best 10th or 9th in Mercedes and that's only if he found a way passed Alonso and Gasly. Ultimately it was the teams call to pit that saved his race, along with one very nice overtake on Albon that really made the difference.

that's impressive still. 7 for that? 
What does Piastri get for finishing 9th in a Mclaren, a 2? No, he gets a 7 also in some ratings....

he is a rookie with no F1 races yet he kept it good enough to finish 4th on his debut when the likes of Sainz and Alonso binned it completely, while fellow rookies Doohan, Hadjar and Lawson also binned it  completely. 

he made critical overtakes a few times, while Lewis only overtook Gasly I think, after. his mistake. Spent a whole 1st stint glued to Albon with 0 threats. Kimi did really well overtaking on such a track!

Tough crowd to please for a rookie!

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 18 March 2025 - 19:09.

[Spillage]

 

AMuS

 

• Lando Norris – Note: 10/10
• Max Verstappen – Note: 09/10
• George Russell – Note: 09/10
• Andrea Kimi Antonelli – Note: 10/10
• Alexander Albon – Note: 09/10
• Lance Stroll – Note: 08/10
• Nico Hülkenberg – Note: 08/10
• Charles Leclerc – Note: 08/10
• Oscar Piastri – Note: 09/10
• Lewis Hamilton – Note: 07/10
• Pierre Gasly – Note: 07/10
• Yuki Tsunoda – Note: 09/10
• Esteban Ocon – Note: 07/10
• Oliver Bearman – Note: 03/10
• Liam Lawson – Note: 04/10
• Gabriel Bortoleto – Note: 06/10
• Fernando Alonso – Note: 04/10
• Carlos Sainz – Note: 07/10
• Jack Doohan – Note: 05/10
• Isack Hadjar – Note: 06/10

 

Ooh boy, we're off to a flying start. Antonelli gets 10/10 after damaging the car in qualifying and spinning in the race. Russell is error-free and qualifies and races as well as the car will perform... but only gets 9/10. Make it make sense.

Edited by Spillage, 18 March 2025 - 19:14.

[Laster]

that's impressive still. 7 for that?
What does Piastri get for finishing 9th in a Mclaren, a 2? No, he gets a 7 also in some ratings....
he is a rookie with no F1 races yet he kept it good enough to finish 4th on his debut when the likes of Sainz and Alonso binned it completely, while fellow rookies Doohan, Hadjar and Lawson also binned it completely.
he made critical overtakes a few times, while Lewis only overtook Gasly I think, after. his mistake. Spent a whole 1st stint glued to Albon with 0 threats. Kimi did really well overtaking on such a track!
Tough crowd to please for a rookie!

Piastri gets a 6 in my mind. Had a good weekend was pushing Norris the whole way, but lost it in tricky conditions that undid it all. Lewis similarly 6 no major mistakes beyond a spin in qualifying, he was just slow and not up to speed in that car.

Yes Alonso and rookies binned it. So? They get marked down like anyone who makes an extreme error. The only ones I'm inclined to give a break to is those who made an error while on slick tyres on a wet track as the teams really hung them out to dry.

Antonelli made one critical overtake on Albon. Other than him he overtook lower midfield cars in Hulk and Stroll. It's the minimum of what is to be expected from him after starting near the back regardless of experience level. He's in a Mercedes. It looks like the 3rd best car right now. Passing the midfield shouldn't be much of an issue. Yes Lewis struggled to do it on Albon. Yes Lewis gets marked down as a result.

It's not a tough crowd to please, it's just taking everything into account. Damaging the car in qualifying, spinning in the race - because he touched the grass. They all count against him. You make big errors, you get marked down. That's pretty standard. His recovery drive had him on course for lower points. The minimum of what is expected in a Mercedes regardless of experience. Antonelli does not get marked up for the team getting his strategy right, nor should the likes of Hulk or Stroll whose main achievement was keeping it on track and then similar to Antonelli getting called in at the right moment.

[Claudius]

Antonelli deserves a high score imo.
He made a mistakes in the race but otherwise kept it on track. Even overtook cars higher up.
That is no small feat in those conditions especially as the other rookies were spinning left, right and center.

[MikeTekRacing]

Piastri gets a 6 in my mind. Had a good weekend was pushing Norris the whole way, but lost it in tricky conditions that undid it all. Lewis similarly 6 no major mistakes beyond a spin in qualifying, he was just slow and not up to speed in that car.

Yes Alonso and rookies binned it. So? They get marked down like anyone who makes an extreme error. The only ones I'm inclined to give a break to is those who made an error while on slick tyres on a wet track as the teams really hung them out to dry.

Antonelli made one critical overtake on Albon. Other than him he overtook lower midfield cars in Hulk and Stroll. It's the minimum of what is to be expected from him after starting near the back regardless of experience level. He's in a Mercedes. It looks like the 3rd best car right now. Passing the midfield shouldn't be much of an issue. Yes Lewis struggled to do it on Albon. Yes Lewis gets marked down as a result.

It's not a tough crowd to please, it's just taking everything into account. Damaging the car in qualifying, spinning in the race - because he touched the grass. They all count against him. You make big errors, you get marked down. That's pretty standard. His recovery drive had him on course for lower points. The minimum of what is expected in a Mercedes regardless of experience. Antonelli does not get marked up for the team getting his strategy right, nor should the likes of Hulk or Stroll whose main achievement was keeping it on track and then similar to Antonelli getting called in at the right moment.

I can agree with that argument overall. I see it differently as for me a rookie with 0 races experience should get some more rope on mistakes.

Slightly disagree on the overtakes though. Overtaking on a half wet track is always very tricky, as you have to go offline. I think he deserves praise for that, he didn't do anything stupid attempting moves, he did them clean. Five overtakes are super hard. His pace was also solid in these changing conditions. 

[Laster]

Overtaking on a half wet track would be more convincing to me if it was done on slick tyres. They were all on inters, they can deal with that better. He did pass Stroll while on slicks, unfortunately I didn't see the move, but again when the cars so much better I'm inclined to expect it. If he had pulled it off on a Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren that would have been seriously impressive to me.

For me there are 5 drivers whose weekend I would happily rate higher than Antonelli's.

Norris who controlled the race, he made one mistake when conditions turned, but managed to keep it from being a costly one.

Verstappen who made a mistake that cost him a place to Piastri but otherwise kept the pressure on the Mclarens after the SC and made a race of it.

Russell who did outqualify and finish ahead of Antonelli with no errors that I can recall. He didn't beat any cars he shouldn't have but nor was he ever behind any cars he shouldn't have been. It was just a clean drive with the best result he could get.

Albon who finished at the top of the midfield, held off the Ferrari's but did get outqualified by Tsunoda despite the Williams looking the faster of the pair.

Finally Tsunoda who qualified higher than he should have, and made a pass on Leclerc in a faster car stick while on slicks having to go on the damp track to do it. He stayed in the top 6 but was undone by the team not making the right call. His only error coming while on slicks during the downpour.

Beyond them I would happily stick Antonelli 6th on the list. Depending on how those above got rated be it 8, 9 or 10, I would want to see Antonelli one mark below the lowest of them.

[MissingApex]

<p>

AMuS

• Lando Norris – Note: 10/10
• Max Verstappen – Note: 09/10
• George Russell – Note: 09/10
• Andrea Kimi Antonelli – Note: 10/10
• Alexander Albon – Note: 09/10
• Lance Stroll – Note: 08/10
• Nico Hülkenberg – Note: 08/10
• Charles Leclerc – Note: 08/10
• Oscar Piastri – Note: 09/10
• Lewis Hamilton – Note: 07/10
• Pierre Gasly – Note: 07/10
• Yuki Tsunoda – Note: 09/10
• Esteban Ocon – Note: 07/10
• Oliver Bearman – Note: 03/10
• Liam Lawson – Note: 04/10
• Gabriel Bortoleto – Note: 06/10
• Fernando Alonso – Note: 04/10
• Carlos Sainz – Note: 07/10
• Jack Doohan – Note: 05/10
• Isack Hadjar – Note: 06/10

Where did that 07/10 from Sainz come from? That’s quite hilarious.