944 replies to this topic

[Laptom]

Get real. 99% of the people knows Max is a generational talent, he's the best out there. But the amount of byllshit from his fans is just ridiculous

Why focus on his fans, just focus on the racing. You are allowing people discuss other drivers, but Max fans cannot have an opinion?

[Myrvold]

I haven't noticed the "Bearman never deserved the seat" and "Bearman is overrated" people post this weekend, one wonder why... or maybe not.

[DevilDare]

I haven't noticed the "Bearman never deserved the seat" and "Bearman is overrated" people post this weekend, one wonder why... or maybe not.

 

Hello.

 

He did well this weekend. Still overrated.

[Myrvold]

He did well this weekend. Still overrated.

 

Is he though? I might be blind, or maybe I am just afraid of bears, so I hide. But I haven't seen much of anything really? 

 

I mean, I get the "first driver to score points for 2 different teams in his first two starts" etc. But I haven't really seen much of a "Bearman will crush Ocon" or "Bearman is a future world champion" etc.

[garoidb]

Is he though? I might be blind, or maybe I am just afraid of bears, so I hide. But I haven't seen much of anything really? 

 

I mean, I get the "first driver to score points for 2 different teams in his first two starts" etc. But I haven't really seen much of a "Bearman will crush Ocon" or "Bearman is a future world champion" etc.

 

There were some comments in past threads that suggested people felt he was a certainty for the Ferrari drive once Lewis leaves/retires. That never made sense to me - such a thing couldn't be based on a once off drive or being part of an academy. We have all seen that Ferrari recruit from other teams when the need arises. Bearman would need to earn such a promotion in the time before the opportunity comes up (and maybe he will, but he hasn't yet IMO).

[brucewayne]

Zak saying he expects ferrari to be the main competitor over the course of the season and thinks Antonelli will win a race this year

This is Zak being a gentleman. Antonelli winning a race is a possibility though.

Edited by brucewayne, 23 March 2025 - 16:26.

[Myrvold]

There were some comments in past threads that suggested people felt he was a certainty for the Ferrari drive once Lewis leaves/retires. That never made sense to me - such a thing couldn't be based on a once off drive or being part of an academy. We have all seen that Ferrari recruit from other teams when the need arises. Bearman would need to earn such a promotion in the time before the opportunity comes up (and maybe he will, but he hasn't yet IMO).

 

Well, I guess, technically Ferrari doesn't have anyone "higher up" in the FDA than Bearman. But I agree with you, Ferrari recruits from other teams, they don't "care" about the academy as such.

 

Obviously, every team needs to give academy drivers a chance now and then to make the academy a viable path to even consider, but that's already been done with Bearman now and Schumacher, Bianchi and Leclerc previously. They've even given Beganovic a test as well. I think this proves that Ferrari are willing to give good juniors a shot in F1, but to drive for Ferrari, you need to have the results to back it up.

Oooor be Eddie Irvine.

[garoidb]

Well, I guess, technically Ferrari doesn't have anyone "higher up" in the FDA than Bearman. But I agree with you, Ferrari recruits from other teams, they don't "care" about the academy as such.

 

Obviously, every team needs to give academy drivers a chance now and then to make the academy a viable path to even consider, but that's already been done with Bearman now and Schumacher, Bianchi and Leclerc previously. They've even given Beganovic a test as well. I think this proves that Ferrari are willing to give good juniors a shot in F1, but to drive for Ferrari, you need to have the results to back it up.

Oooor be Eddie Irvine.

 

[messy]

How Haas went from looking adrift at the back to 'winning' midfield here is a crazy turnaround in the space of a week, but I'm happy for them. Williams and Alpine - the former despite their strong results - still not living up to their pre-season billing, Red Bull's weakness apparent even in the hands of Max, McLaren excellent over a race distance. Some really interesting question marks going into the next couple of races because I still don't think the picture behind McLaren and all the way down the field is clear yet. The Race itself? Pretty drab.

[RedRabbit]

Well, I guess, technically Ferrari doesn't have anyone "higher up" in the FDA than Bearman. But I agree with you, Ferrari recruits from other teams, they don't "care" about the academy as such.

Obviously, every team needs to give academy drivers a chance now and then to make the academy a viable path to even consider, but that's already been done with Bearman now and Schumacher, Bianchi and Leclerc previously. They've even given Beganovic a test as well. I think this proves that Ferrari are willing to give good juniors a shot in F1, but to drive for Ferrari, you need to have the results to back it up.
Oooor be Eddie Irvine.

Which is sensible. Putting drivers in the main team for the sake of it is for people high on energy drinks.

[Ben24]

How Haas went from looking adrift at the back to 'winning' midfield here is a crazy turnaround in the space of a week, but I'm happy for them. Williams and Alpine - the former despite their strong results - still not living up to their pre-season billing, Red Bull's weakness apparent even in the hands of Max, McLaren excellent over a race distance. Some really interesting question marks going into the next couple of races because I still don't think the picture behind McLaren and all the way down the field is clear yet. The Race itself? Pretty drab.

I thought Williams were actually quite strong this race but got unlucky by running long in anticipation of higher deg. At the time they pitted I, as they probably also did, assumed they'd finish finish well ahead of the rest of the midfield. Unfortunately for them they just gave up the undercut in a race that had very little deg. Haas were definitely quick today but were only really on pace with the Racing Bulls and maybe the Williams who both screwed up their strategies - Haas got it right by pitting Ocon early of the medium starters and Bearman early of the hard starters whilst Williams and RB both got it more wrong than any other team on the grid.

[Clrnc]

Just saw Karun's analysis of Leclerc, he definitely gained a performance upgrade with the flexi front wing. 

 

He was analysing using those slowmo cams that he gets more downforce like this on the fast corners. Legally everyone wants to design a flexi wing like this but cant

[Starchild]

This is Zak being a gentleman. Antonelli winning a race is a possibility though.

I really don't get that Antonelli hype. Am i the only one?
How is he going to win the race when he finishes 42 sec behind his team mate?
They've had similar one stop strategy today and he was just so far off, that's like 7,8 tenth a lap slower.
And hype is that big that he still got 'driver of the Day' for that haha

[zeph]

Yeah DotD for Antonelli was an eyebrow-raiser for me as well. I would have thought Piastri or Ocon were better candidates.

 

That said, he's scored points in both races. I think he isn't doing badly, all things considered.

 

People forget that a rookie like Hamilton at the time had already logged 10,000 test kilometers in the McLaren before his debut, he knew the car better than Alonso.

 

For rookies nowadays every FP, quali and race in their first months is essentially testing.

[DS27]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

[PayasYouRace]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

Maybe they could just go back to how it started and just ask Martin Brundle after the race?

[TomNokoe]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

How could they do it? Panel of broadcasters/journalists? In football it's often just the co-commentator's opinion!

[P123]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

 

Was it not that from the start of it, when Haryanto used to win it?  It's never been worthy of attention, aside from the oddities it throws up. 

[Anderis]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

It's going to become an obvious joke?

 

It's been an obvious joke from the beginning. Remembet that Haryanto originally won the first ever voting, but then they discounted some votes and he didn't get the award, after all. And even since then on a significant number of occasions the award went to a driver who was clearly outperformed by his team mate.

 

I've never paid much attention to it and I think it's futile trying to fix it. Regardless of who is in charge of choosing the DotD, there's always gonna be some bias and the award going to the wrong driver every now and then. May as well give the fans the vote to drive some engagement. It's a meaningless popularity contest anyway and never going to be much more than that.

[Gravelngrass]

I wonder if Max would do better on the Racing Bull…or is Lawson just especially struggling in the Red Bull?

[PayasYouRace]

I wonder if Max would do better on the Racing Bull…or is Lawson just especially struggling in the Red Bull?

I was thinking they should allow Red Bull to run as a one car team for Max and Racing Bulls as a three car team for the other three. Would probably be better for the sport as a whole.

[Gravelngrass]

I was thinking they should allow Red Bull to run as a one car team for Max and Racing Bulls as a three car team for the other three. Would probably be better for the sport as a whole.

Because Max would dominate in the Racing Bull?

[Clrnc]

They need to change how they are going to award DotD or it's going to become an obvious joke. It's like fan boost in Formula E (if that's still a thing).

As long as it doesn't matter, its fine.

Ricciardo got voted DOTD too on his last race despite finishing last. It's just for sentimental reasons

[Ultravox]

What an incredibly dull boring race.

[RedRabbit]

Just saw Karun's analysis of Leclerc, he definitely gained a performance upgrade with the flexi front wing.

He was analysing using those slowmo cams that he gets more downforce like this on the fast corners. Legally everyone wants to design a flexi wing like this but cant

That's genuinely not how it works. The flexi wing doesn't give more downforce on fast corners, that's just not possible.

It actually balances the car by giving LESS downforce compared to the usual angle of attack of the wing flaps.

If the wing didn't flex, it would have too much downforce in the high speed corners and make the front end very twitchy which throws the rear out into snap oversteer.

The left to right balance on Charles's car would have been off too.

[Sterzo]

That's genuinely not how it works. The flexi wing doesn't give more downforce on fast corners, that's just not possible.

It actually balances the car by giving LESS downforce compared to the usual angle of attack of the wing flaps.

If the wing didn't flex, it would have too much downforce in the high speed corners and make the front end very twitchy which throws the rear out into snap oversteer.

The left to right balance on Charles's car would have been off too.

Exactly so. There was a typically excellent article by Pat Symonds in Autosport recently. Amongst other things, he pointed out that you need more front downforce for slow corner entry, and less for high speed corners, which means compromising set up as circuits have both. The flexi wing is ideal as it keeps shape at low speeds and feathers at high speeds. Hey presto, no set-up compromise needed.

[jcbc3]

Williams has as many points (17) after these two first races as they did in all of 2024 and Sauber is already 50% ahead of their total from last year.

After 2 races last year, Haas had 1 point. Now they are already at 14.

Mercedes are at 57 points vs 26 in 2024

McLaren at 78 vs. 28 in 2024

 

So if all these teams are doing better where are the points coming from? Step forward...

 

Red Bull 36 vs. 87

Ferrari 17 vs. 49

 

And before anyone laments Raging Bulls they are ahead of 2024 scoring wise. They were pointless after two races last year, and on 3 this. All three taken fromo Aston Martin that has regressed from 13 to 10 points at this early stage.

 

 

Yeah, completely useless info I know. I was just curious how good Albon has been for Williams this year already. And it took of from there. 

[sgtkate]

Norris would want Piastri to go faster to potentially use his tyres. If they're 1 stopping Piastri just needs to hold the lead

Your pro-Piastri conspiracy theories are getting tiring. Firstly you said they'd allow Norris to undercut Piastri. Instead Norris was pitted after Piastri (correctly) and he ended up behind Russell. Now you are accusing them of trying to force Piastri into cooking his tyres opposed to the reality of Norris potentially being backed up into Russell...there is NO bias to either driver at this stage. McLaren is absolutely aiming for the best team outcome.

[Jops14]

I really don't get that Antonelli hype. Am i the only one?
How is he going to win the race when he finishes 42 sec behind his team mate?
They've had similar one stop strategy today and he was just so far off, that's like 7,8 tenth a lap slower.
And hype is that big that he still got 'driver of the Day' for that haha

I get the hype but think he was promoted to F1 at least a year too early. I think the plan would have been to stick him in a Williams say this season or next (or insert other team) before moving him to Mercedes to replace Hamilton, and Hamilton scuppered that.

I think he will come good, but hes in for a rough year

[sgtkate]

Seriously, if this guy wins a World Championship...

He'll have deserved it as much as anyone else...regardless of who we are actually talking about.

[sgtkate]

Lando, so many mistakes every other week

What mistakes during this race? Are we blaming him for coming out behind Russell after the pit stops? Or a brake failure? Because if he's going to be blamed for any tactical or mechanical issue then I feel a bit sorry for him carrying the entire team.

[sgtkate]

Sure, 20-30 points of downforce loss has little effect…

It's possible on this track that the benefits of effectively having a flexi front wing giving higher straight line speed (in fact, did it? Do we have any data confirming that?) was greater than the likely understeer generated through the corners. He did appear to suffer more tyre deg than Hamilton (the pit stop muddied things greatly though so hard to be sure).

[JimmyClark]

I get the hype but think he was promoted to F1 at least a year too early. I think the plan would have been to stick him in a Williams say this season or next (or insert other team) before moving him to Mercedes to replace Hamilton, and Hamilton scuppered that.

I think he will come good, but hes in for a rough year

 

I think he's been performing well. I was skeptical of his promotion so early (as you say, a year in Williams would have been better), but he's kept it out of the wall and not disgraced himself. He looks like he belongs in F1. 

 

"A rough year" will be along the lines of Liam Lawson, but Merc will be happy as George has stepped up perfectly into the team leader role, and given they are likely favourites to hit the 2026 ground running, having Antonelli with a year in the team and F1 under his belt can only be a good thing, so they won't be putting pressure on him. 

 

A Mercedes engine is likely to win the constructors' title anyway. 

[SophieB]

@NobleF1

#F1 representatives have met with Ferrari to discuss why the international feed ommitted broadcasting a key Lewis Hamilton radio message that changed the narrative of the position swap with Charles Leclerc in the #ChineseGP.

https://www.the-race...1-fred-vasseur/

[Autodromo]

@NobleF1

#F1 representatives have met with Ferrari to discuss why the international feed ommitted broadcasting a key Lewis Hamilton radio message that changed the narrative of the position swap with Charles Leclerc in the #ChineseGP.

https://www.the-race...1-fred-vasseur/

Someone on the world feed (Bernie?) who was listening to the communications mentioned that it was Hamilton's suggestion, but they did not play the message itself.

[SophieB]

Someone on the world feed (Bernie?) who was listening to the communications mentioned that it was Hamilton's suggestion, but they did not play the message itself.

Just to be clear, although I get lots of countries do use Sky’s commentary team too, in the context they mean here they are talking about just the broadcast footage and the messages broadcast which are all controlled by whatever FOM call themselves these days. Sky, like all the other commentary teams then react and interpret the footage for viewers.

It was good that Bernie also filled in the missing context but this was a bad mistake by FOM. I’m sure it was genuine although it did cross my mind how a lot of attention was generated last week with Hamilton’s tense chatter with his race engineer. Not the biggest disaster but worth querying, I think.

[danmills]

I haven't noticed the "Bearman never deserved the seat" and "Bearman is overrated" people post this weekend, one wonder why... or maybe not.

 

Probably because it's only Round 2.

 

If it wasn't for the stand in drive and hitting the ground running he'd probably still be in F2 this year so goes to show how much luck is a massive factor.

 

Opportunities like that are too rare.

 

He's absolutely aced all chances so far.

[SCUDmissile]

Does anyone think the air pollution problem in Shanghai must be a lot better?

The sky looked a lot clearer than previous races I thought.

[The Passenger]

Does anyone think the air pollution problem in Shanghai must be a lot better?
The sky looked a lot clearer than previous races I thought.

Not sure about now, but I heard a few years ago (in Western media) that the pollution in China in general was much less.

[RedRabbit]

It's possible on this track that the benefits of effectively having a flexi front wing giving higher straight line speed (in fact, did it? Do we have any data confirming that?) was greater than the likely understeer generated through the corners. He did appear to suffer more tyre deg than Hamilton (the pit stop muddied things greatly though so hard to be sure).

Front wing has no effect on top speed.

[FortiFord]

Front wing has no effect on top speed.

Not really true.

1. Teams do adjust the front wing angle to increase/reduce downforce which in turn reduces/increases drag. It is after all the first part of the car that hits the air.

2. The endplate directs airflow around the tyres. Without that, the tyres cause a huge amount of drag. The endplate also prevent induced drag from airflow spilling over the top of the wing.

[PayasYouRace]

Not really true.

1. Teams do adjust the front wing angle to increase/reduce downforce which in turn reduces/increases drag. It is after all the first part of the car that hits the air.

2. The endplate directs airflow around the tyres. Without that, the tyres cause a huge amount of drag. The endplate also prevent induced drag from airflow spilling over the top of the wing.

There’s some truth to it. As a rule of thumb, you can adjust the front wing flap angle with little effect on top speed, as the wing’s wake impacts directly on the rest of the car and has little effect on overall drag. That’s why you use the rear wing to set the speed/downforce compromise for the circuit you’re on, and then use the front wing for the balance.

However, major damage can have a much greater effect on the overall airflow of the car, as you rightly say.

[FortiFord]

There’s some truth to it. As a rule of thumb, you can adjust the front wing flap angle with little effect on top speed, as the wing’s wake impacts directly on the rest of the car and has little effect on overall drag. That’s why you use the rear wing to set the speed/downforce compromise for the circuit you’re on, and then use the front wing for the balance.

However, major damage can have a much greater effect on the overall airflow of the car, as you rightly say.

Not sure about that. Whilst you’re right in that the rear wing will have the most impact on drag, cranking up the front wing angle will increase drag. It’s why teams cannot easily correct an inherently understeery car by simply adding more front wing; it would create too much drag.

[PayasYouRace]

Not sure about that. Whilst you’re right in that the rear wing will have the most impact on drag, cranking up the front wing angle will increase drag. It’s why teams cannot easily correct an inherently understeery car by simply adding more front wing; it would create too much drag.

Well I am sure. It was even something I was questioned on when I interviewed for a junior aerodynamicist role at Brawn as an undergrad. The angle of the front wing flap doesn’t have any real effect on the overall drag of the car. Thing of it, in simplified terms, as the rest of the car running in the slipstream of the front wing.

 

The reason you can’t simply add more wing to correct an inherently under steering car is that eventually you reach the limit of the wings ability to produce downforce.

[SophieB]

Does anyone feel up to pulling together a race build up thread for Japan?