696 replies to this topic

[IrvTheSwerve]

You know, something that occurred to me re how badly the transitions from the B team to the A team are now going is to what extent they are missing the guidance and preparation work that Franz Tost used to give. Probably not a major factor because the cracks were well and truly appearing before, but he was so experienced and respected.

 

Great point. Tost was always like a kind of under-21s manager. It just doesn't feel like that anymore...it's like RedBull are truly fused to the junior team more than ever and that they can move drivers around as they see fit. There feels like there's none of this 'training to move to the big team' thing any more.

[BRG]

The current RB team principal seems to be simply a cypher who has no say in any decisions.  Horner now seems to speak for both teams.  It really is long overdue that the FIA demand Red Bull Gmbh sell off one of their two teams.

[JL14]

Marko: "Yuki had quietly expected this to happen all along. The only surprise was that it came so quickly."

 

Marko exclusive: “We’re not dropping Lawson – we’re saving his future”

[FirstnameLastname]

They are edging toward a ‘this was always the plan’ narrative now

[expert]

It's remarkable that Yuki is apparently now the mature, adaptable, consistent one who can handle the pressure the best. Totaly in line with what they were saying about him... two months ago?

[expert]

Unless Yuki just happens to have a driving style that gells perfectly with the demands of The RB21 out of the box, this is a real hospital pass for him.

I don't think Red Bull really have the foggiest idea how it will go themselves.

[expert]

Everytime Lawson went out pretty much they were experimenting with a different setup and sometimes different parts. Notbing worked.

So there is no baseline on that side of the garage for Yuki to start from.

[P123]

A quick about turn by Marko and co, yet Tsunoda arrives in a team that didn't want him, so they chose somebody else.

 

And it's obviously not just a driver problem for Red Bull.  The entire side of the garage for the second car is operating at a disadvantage.  Aside from getting this super difficult pointy car for kicks, how much engineering time is spent on a setup that is workable?  It doesn't seem achievable for the second car.  And not a new phenomenon for Red Bull either, as looking back into the past will show times where Webber was 7 tenths off Vettel.  Sainz at Williams is showing how difficult it is to settle into a new team too.  So it could be said that Lawson had everything against him- a driver the level of Max as a benchmark, a lack of experience, a lack of time in the car, and a team that generally lacks when it comes to effectively engineering two sides of the garage and not just one. 

[flingsofdeon]

That Racing Bulls Technical Director stepping back into the main group - with more parts shared than in a while between the teams - and Yuki being able to side by side, this may be the only way they get on top of the technical challenges they have.

[GiorgioF1]

Everytime Lawson went out pretty much they were experimenting with a different setup and sometimes different parts. Notbing worked.

So there is no baseline on that side of the garage for Yuki to start from.

 

It will work with Yuki because he has "undergone a transformation" now.

 

[RedRabbit]

[quote name="BRG" post="10871620" timestamp="1743264197"]

The current RB team principal seems to be simply a cypher who has no say in any decisions. Horner now seems to speak for both teams. It really is long overdue that the FIA demand Red Bull Gmbh sell off one of their two teams.[/quote

Based on what?

[KWSN - DSM]

I might have posted it already once here, I expect Tsunoda to have a relatively good weekend.

[Victor]

It's remarkable that Yuki is apparently now the mature, adaptable, consistent one who can handle the pressure the best. Totaly in line with what they were saying about him... two months ago?

Tsunoda has a new manager. Apparently that made all the difference... 

[FLB]

Tsunoda has a new manager. Apparently that made all the difference... 

Things that make you go 'Hmmm...'

 

Tsunoda splits with managers amid missed Red Bull promotion for F1 2025

 

 

"I am not working [with] Mario anymore, and Luis as well," Tsunoda confirmed to Autosport. "I'm really happy with Diego.

“He's motivated, definitely. Once we decided to work together, he immediately went to Helmut's [Marko, Red Bull advisor] office to build a relationship. That kind of effort, I really appreciate - and obviously, Helmut did too.

[William Hunt]

Is Tsunoda now officially best Japanese driver ever?

Takuma Sato won the Indy 500...twice!

Edited by William Hunt, 29 March 2025 - 22:33.

[jonpollak]

That post was deliberate ClickBait Billy.
They’ve all listed the myriad of permutations to counter that assumption.
Jp

[krea]

So if Lawson absolutely thrashes Hadjar or at least matches him next weekend, and Yuki equally underperforms like Lawson, that's a hell of a PR headache Red Bull management would have going forwards with a driver they demoted; a driver they said has no future but reluctantly promoted; and a promising rookie that unfortunately binned it on his first warmup lap but appears to be next in line to the throne.

What a mess.

The amount of fanfics how Tsunoda will fail and Lawson will get his redemption just to protect a white boy is crazy

We are approaching Ricciardo wasn’t way worse than Tsunoda but in fact he was even better than him last year level of craziness

Edited by krea, Yesterday, 07:57.

[lewislorenzo]

Things that make you go 'Hmmm...'

Tsunoda splits with managers amid missed Red Bull promotion for F1 2025

Probably Lawsons lack of performance made more of the difference

[IrvTheSwerve]

Just apply Occam’s razor. Red Bull rate(d) Lawson higher than Tsunoda and never wanted Yuki in the seat, Lawson bombed so badly that it was such an embarrassment to Red Bull that Yuki is now their only choice.

 

All of this ‘things have changed’ or ‘it was always the plan’ stuff is a load of guff.

[krea]

Just apply Occam’s razor. Red Bull rate(d) Lawson higher than Tsunoda and never wanted Yuki in the seat, Lawson bombed so badly that it was such an embarrassment to Red Bull that Yuki is now their only choice.

All of this ‘things have changed’ or ‘it was always the plan’ stuff is a load of guff.

Most likely Tsunoda was never slower than Lawson in the test runs but Tsunoda was the not own Honda guy so he wasn’t picked, thinking Lawson would be good enough for the second seat anyway.

The fact that Tsunoda was chosen after two races should tell us that his rating wasn’t purely based on actual performance.

[Chillimeister]

Just apply Occam’s razor. Red Bull rate(d) Lawson higher than Tsunoda and never wanted Yuki in the seat, Lawson bombed so badly that it was such an embarrassment to Red Bull that Yuki is now their only choice.

 

All of this ‘things have changed’ or ‘it was always the plan’ stuff is a load of guff.

 

What Irv said. Someone who was there at the time told me that (despite the outward cordial appearances) RB were so irritated with Honda first abruptly leaving F1 (obliging RB to set up a very costly in-house powertrain operation, but fair enough) but then doing a complete u-turn not very long after, that their man Tsunoda was never going to get a promotion to the second RB seat. The fact that he's there now is due to extra Honda cash and as a result of RB's main focus being on the WDC - the WCC is likely out of reach no matter who is in the second seat with the car as it is, so moving Lawson to Racing Bulls gives him the opportunity to rebuild his confidence in a much more forgiving car, and provide a good reference for Hadjar.

[Sterzo]

All of this ‘things have changed’ or ‘it was always the plan’ stuff is a load of guff.

Have they said that? I thought Marko said putting Lawson in was a mistake. Meanwhile, somewhere, can't remember where, Horner has said they have a problem with the car. Possibly they've learned those things from our forum, or maybe they're a little more intelligent than others on the thread give them credit for.
 

[Bleu]

Tbf Nakajima was a 34 year old „rookie“ who never drove a formula 1 car before and was solely in for Honda and had to drive against Senna who wasn’t the most pleasant teammate. Still produced 2 4th place finishes and a fastest lap in his career.

 

 

One Finnish F1 book had written this about Lotus team was sharing drivers' duties:

 

Satoru Nakajima entertains the spectators by driving a camera car, also ensures the team gets Honda engines.

 

Ayrton Senna brings the points and keeps the sponsors visible.

[FirstnameLastname]

Tsunoda aiming for a podium at Suzuka

https://www.motorspo...debut/10708291/

[Muppetmad]

If he finishes on the podium, it'd be a remarkable performance. It's far from a given that Verstappen will be on the podium with the car as it is.

[KWSN - DSM]

Takuma Sato won the Indy 500...twice!

 

It was actually an honest question in how Tsunoda is or is not the best Japanese driver in F1 and only looking at F1, everyone here should know how highly I rate Kobayashi, much as I do that, question is speaking solely F1 is Tsunoda now the best Japanese driver ever?

 

Sato have had a very good career in the US, but is his F1 career better than Tsunoda's? I agree a podium is an important measure in a F1 career, it was an earned 3rd, not a fall into kind of deal, same for Kobayashi's 3rd in Japan, but over all F1 career, and with the qualifier of Red Bull not seeming to be too keen on him next to Verstappen, this is a Japanese driver who have been placed next to the reigning World Champion.

[JL14]

Tsunoda aiming for a podium at Suzuka

https://www.motorspo...debut/10708291/

 

Not 'aiming' as in his own performance target for the weekend, but 'aiming' as in being his dream result.

 

"I don’t want to raise expectations too much, but for this Japanese Grand Prix, I want to finish on the podium. That said, I know it won’t be easy right from the start.

“My priority is to first understand the car, how it behaves compared to the VCARB. If I can naturally enjoy driving it as I get familiar with it in FP1, then the results will follow. And if that leads to a podium finish, that would be incredible."

From his simulator time, Tsunoda said he didn't find this year’s Red Bull "that challenging to drive", although he admitted his comments on last year's car - which he tested in Abu Dhabi - suiting his driving style was "a bit of a sales pitch" to Red Bull.

"I spent about two days in the simulator. From that experience, I didn’t find the car to be that challenging to drive. I definitely got the impression that the front-end is very responsive, as people often say. But if you ask whether it felt tricky to handle, I wouldn’t say it gave me a particularly strange feeling, at least in the simulator."

"Of course, how I want to set up the car is probably different from Max. I want to develop my own car set-up, get a good understanding of it, and gradually get up to speed from FP1."

Edited by JL14, Yesterday, 10:17.

[GiorgioF1]

Tsunoda aiming for a podium at Suzuka

https://www.motorspo...debut/10708291/

 

"I spent about two days in the simulator. From that experience, I didn’t find the car to be that challenging to drive," he explained.

 

I'm guessing it was the same with Lawson.

[pdac]

It just amazes me how much people thing a drivers performance is so predictable. Over time, perhaps so. But to have any certainty about how Tsunoda will do next race is crazy. Every driver has moments of brilliance and moments of awfulness. Either (or neither) can emerge when there is a sudden change of circumstances.

 

Lawson had two races (not enough to really judge, perhaps). Let's wait and see how it turns out over (at least) two races for Yuki. He might surprise. He might disappoint. I don't know and I'm confident that nobody else can either - but I very interested to see.

[GiorgioF1]

It just amazes me how much people thing a drivers performance is so predictable. Over time, perhaps so. But to have any certainty about how Tsunoda will do next race is crazy. Every driver has moments of brilliance and moments of awfulness. Either (or neither) can emerge when there is a sudden change of circumstances.

 

Lawson had two races (not enough to really judge, perhaps). Let's wait and see how it turns out over (at least) two races for Yuki. He might surprise. He might disappoint. I don't know and I'm confident that nobody else can either - but I very interested to see.

 

The chance is way higher that he'll dissapoint based on the facts that it's the infamous 2nd seat and a meatgrinder for their drivers so it's understandable that people are doubting in a sudden change of fortune with Tsunoda. The team was going great lengths to give the seat to just everyone else other than him so it suspicious that he's being portrayed by them as the chosen one now.

 

It will be great seeing Yuki defying the odds but it's the less likely scenario. 

[pdac]

The chance is way higher that he'll dissapoint based on the facts that it's the infamous 2nd seat and a meatgrinder for their drivers so it's understandable that people are doubting in a sudden change of fortune with Tsunoda. The team was going great lengths to give the seat to just everyone else other than him so it suspicious that he's being portrayed by them as the chosen one now.

 

It will be great seeing Yuki defying the odds but it's the less likely scenario. 

 

Disappoint who? And what is the measure of disappointment? Whatever his results are, there will be some here that say he has disappointed and others who will say he has shone. Those who claim surety over the matter in advance, I would say, have already made their minds up and will adjust their measures to suit their agenda.

[Bliman]

The chance is way higher that he'll dissapoint based on the facts that it's the infamous 2nd seat and a meatgrinder for their drivers so it's understandable that people are doubting in a sudden change of fortune with Tsunoda. The team was going great lengths to give the seat to just everyone else other than him so it suspicious that he's being portrayed by them as the chosen one now.

It will be great seeing Yuki defying the odds but it's the less likely scenario.

He will not disappoint that is sure. It is quite simple if he is up from last place it will be defined as success. He basically cannot disappoint. He is coming in at an ideal time.

[Boxerevo]

Tsunoda aiming for a podium at Suzuka

https://www.motorspo...debut/10708291/

Do it and i call you Tsunoda-sama.

 

Beat Max and i call you Tsunoda-dono.

Edited by Boxerevo, Yesterday, 13:48.

[GiorgioF1]

Disappoint who? And what is the measure of disappointment? Whatever his results are, there will be some here that say he has disappointed and others who will say he has shone. Those who claim surety over the matter in advance, I would say, have already made their minds up and will adjust their measures to suit their agenda.

 

I mean he needs to be scoring points? If he won't then he'll be a disappointment. Basically do a better job than Perez was doing last year. 

 

If you drive a Red Bull the least what you need to be doing race in race out is score points and preferably be as close as possible to Max's race pace, otherwise you're wasting that seat. 

 

Or do you perhaps think that Red Bull will be overjoyed with him finishing in P15 because in theory it's better than Lawsons P20? Marko said they want the fifth championship for Max and for this they need a driver who's there on therabout to help Verstappen with the strategy calls.

[Boxerevo]

I mean he needs to be scoring points? If he won't then he'll be a disappointment. Basically do a better job than Perez was doing last year. 

 

If you drive a Red Bull the least what you need to be doing race in race out is score points and preferably be as close as possible to Max's race pace, otherwise you're wasting that seat. 

 

Or do you perhaps think that Red Bull will be overjoyed with him finishing in P15 because in theory it's better than Lawsons P20? Marko said they want the fifth championship for Max and for this they need a driver who's there on therabout to help Verstappen with the strategy calls.

A "proper" Red Bull result can't be outside the top 10.

 

It should be a car to be always on points. Simple as that.

[Laster]

Perez ended up fighting the midfield propping up the bottom of those top 4 teams. That's why he got dumped, presumably anyone getting in the car needs to be ahead of the midfield and battling with the other cars among those top 4 teams. That's the acceptable level.

[Red5ive]

Tsunoda has done okay against his various teammates over the last few seasons - but only just "okay" and that includes the absolutely awful Ricciardo.

 

Havent seen anything this season so far to suggest he is suddenly a tier 1 driver and capable of taming the Red Bull.

 

Its obvious the RedBull mgmt of Horner and Marko have ended up sleep walking the team into a driver dead-end - which is amazing given the supposed strength/depth of their young driver programme and the fact they have a junior team they can use for experience.  In any other profession those 2 would have been asked to resign by now.

 

Still its great to watch. 

Edited by Red5ive, Yesterday, 15:03.

[Sterzo]

Its obvious the RedBull mgmt of Horner and Marko have ended up sleep walking the team into a driver dead-end - which is amazing given the supposed strength/depth of their young driver programme and the fact they have a junior team they can use for experience.  In any other profession those 2 would have been asked to resign by now.

You didn't notice them take the drivers' World Championship? Or finish third in the constructors' World Championship in spite of Perez's disappointing form? I realise it's imperative on the internet to slag off everyone, but this seems a little disproportionate. Shouldn't the management of the seven teams behind them resign instead? And all the drivers?

Edited by Sterzo, Yesterday, 16:28.

[pdac]

I mean he needs to be scoring points? If he won't then he'll be a disappointment. Basically do a better job than Perez was doing last year. 

 

If you drive a Red Bull the least what you need to be doing race in race out is score points and preferably be as close as possible to Max's race pace, otherwise you're wasting that seat. 

 

Or do you perhaps think that Red Bull will be overjoyed with him finishing in P15 because in theory it's better than Lawsons P20? Marko said they want the fifth championship for Max and for this they need a driver who's there on therabout to help Verstappen with the strategy calls.

 

 

A "proper" Red Bull result can't be outside the top 10.

 

It should be a car to be always on points. Simple as that.

 

 

Perez ended up fighting the midfield propping up the bottom of those top 4 teams. That's why he got dumped, presumably anyone getting in the car needs to be ahead of the midfield and battling with the other cars among those top 4 teams. That's the acceptable level.

 

So, there's 3 interpretations of what he needs to do in order not to disappoint.

 

1. Score points - then qualified by "do better than Perez" (obviously, Perez scored a few points last season).

2. Never fail to bring the car home in the top 10 (I assume the odd retirement must be allowed - even Max failed to achieve a top-10 last year)

3. Don't end up the bottom driver of the top 4 teams. That's a proper defined target, except that he's not been driving the RB for the first two races, so should we discount those? Also, does that mean Max, as #1 driver has the target of not coming 4th or lower?

 

My take on the matter ... He probably needs to be consistently scoring points. The biggest issue with Perez was his lack of consistency. Same with Ricciardo.

Edited by pdac, Yesterday, 18:22.

[PrinceBira]

His first task is extremely simple: progress to Q2.

[kumo7]

Tsunoda aiming for a podium at Suzuka

https://www.motorspo...debut/10708291/

Oh, simply lovely, Yuki, yes that's why you are driving Formula One, let's go Yuki!!

Edited by kumo7, Yesterday, 18:55.

[KWSN - DSM]

 

My take on the matter ... He probably needs to be consistently scoring points. The biggest issue with Perez was his lack of consistency. Same with Ricciardo.

 

+1

[Autodromo]

His first task is extremely simple: progress to Q2.

His first task is not to bin it this weekend, IMHO.  

[MortenF1]

He needs to finish in the top 8, solidly. Simple as that, as the Red Bull is up there with Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren.

[Deeq]

What a joke this team has become since Mateschitz passed away.

They could have had Yuki in that seat months and months ago. That says so much about the competence of the management.

Thisx1000
The decisions to promote first Ricardo than Lawson has no reason & rym in F1.. They were irrationall (presumably to do with Horners personal dislike of Yuki).
I think the rumors about RBR getting 10m€ for promoting Yuki are fake planted by the team to distract from this debacle...
Horner needs to go now he has lost the magic/plot.

[kumo7]

Thisx1000
The decisions to promote first Ricardo than Lawson has no reason & rym in F1.. They were irrationall (presumably to do with Horners personal dislike of Yuki).
I think the rumors about RBR getting 10m€ for promoting Yuki are fake planted by the team to distract from this debacle...
Horner needs to go now he has lost the magic/plot.

This much is clearer, he had lost lots of people who worked with him, brought the result together. People goes, he loses. He might be losing more people.

[baddog]

Thisx1000
The decisions to promote first Ricardo than Lawson has no reason & rym in F1.. They were irrationall (presumably to do with Horners personal dislike of Yuki).
I think the rumors about RBR getting 10m€ for promoting Yuki are fake planted by the team to distract from this debacle...
Horner needs to go now he has lost the magic/plot.

 

I think clearly he is not doing the job well enough at the moment, and if they don't win one of the champs this year then it may be time for him to go. They need to know what comes after though, because if he goes and Max goes who is making them actually better?

 

but don't lets let Marko and all his stupid gameplaying nonsense off the hook either. Him and Flav are cut from the same cloth, old bastards manipulating everyone and playing everyone off against each other, leaking to the press against rivals, working for their own interests and changing their tune with the wind.