68 replies to this topic

[MKSixer]

Before I get pilloried and drummed out of the forum, I have a modest proposal:  Perhaps Bernie was right about using artificial rain, via a track-side sprinkler system, to help spice up racing. Watching the latest Japanese Grand Prix along with all FP sessions and Qualifying, the only moment worth it was the sublime pole lap from Max Verstappen. I put up there with Lewis Hamilton's Singapore 2017 "Stardust" lap.  I consider this a wasted weekend. 

 

That being said, the introduction of a system which would be completely controlled by AI and randomized may provide a solution for this challenge. I'd make the system completely hands off, but for testing prior to the beginning of the GP weekend and NO ONE would know when and during what part of the weekend sessions, quali and race that the system may activate itself. We may get through half the season with nothing the tsunami-like deluges for several races and/or light showers for many more.  I don't have all the answers.

 

Before the pillory-ing occurs, we already have artificial passing (DRS), artificial gravity (floor generated downforce), artificial tires (Pirelli) and artificial horsepower (turbos and battery power...I kid, sorta).

 

Thoughts on this? 

[LolaB0860]

[zeph]

We should also get Hulk Hogan a race seat. 

 

Or better yet, a celebrity demolition derby!

 

Actually, have a different random celebrity as Verstappen's teammate for every race. Wouldn't make much difference for the team, I reckon.

[GlenWatkins]

My thought is no. This will open Pandoras Box. Or let's go full NASCAR and make Monaco a dirt track race for example. Tilkedromes are bad enough, let's not f around with artificial surfaces.

[Lazy]

Before I get pilloried and drummed out of the forum, I have a modest proposal:  Perhaps Bernie was right about using artificial rain, via a track-side sprinkler system, to help spice up racing. Watching the latest Japanese Grand Prix along with all FP sessions and Qualifying, the only moment worth it was the sublime pole lap from Max Verstappen. I put up there with Lewis Hamilton's Singapore 2017 "Stardust" lap.  I consider this a wasted weekend. 

 

That being said, the introduction of a system which would be completely controlled by AI and randomized may provide a solution for this challenge. I'd make the system completely hands off, but for testing prior to the beginning of the GP weekend and NO ONE would know when and during what part of the weekend sessions, quali and race that the system may activate itself. We may get through half the season with nothing the tsunami-like deluges for several races and/or light showers for many more.  I don't have all the answers.

 

Before the pillory-ing occurs, we already have artificial passing (DRS), artificial gravity (floor generated downforce), artificial tires (Pirelli) and artificial horsepower (turbos and battery power...I kid, sorta).

 

Thoughts on this? 

Oh ffs 

[Lazy]

I'm getting really sick of people trying to turn this sport into WWF.

[LolaB0860]

I'm getting really sick of people trying to turn this sport into WWF.

 

Yeah we have countless other series for that already

[Sterzo]

My thoughts on this are: yes, lets go ahead but make proper use of AI to generate the images, which will give a better product. Make everything random, call it F1 and broadcast it on TV.

 

Then the rest of us could ignore it and watch car racing without the DRS and pretend tyres, with machines built to regs which enable a little more passing than at present.

[RPM40]

While DRS is an overtaking aid, its not that artificial. Nothing is artificial about the downforce.

 

The main issue is the cars just produce too much downforce again, they need need to take a short view back to the past.... in 2014 they solved the issue of ever increasing downforce and the cars could really race again. But then complaints were made they were hardly faster than F2, which matters... for some reason. So F1 got back on the endless increase downforce loop, right back to the main issues.

[noikeee]

[pdac]

Before I get pilloried and drummed out of the forum, I have a modest proposal:  Perhaps Bernie was right about using artificial rain, via a track-side sprinkler system, to help spice up racing. Watching the latest Japanese Grand Prix along with all FP sessions and Qualifying, the only moment worth it was the sublime pole lap from Max Verstappen. I put up there with Lewis Hamilton's Singapore 2017 "Stardust" lap.  I consider this a wasted weekend. 

 

That being said, the introduction of a system which would be completely controlled by AI and randomized may provide a solution for this challenge. I'd make the system completely hands off, but for testing prior to the beginning of the GP weekend and NO ONE would know when and during what part of the weekend sessions, quali and race that the system may activate itself. We may get through half the season with nothing the tsunami-like deluges for several races and/or light showers for many more.  I don't have all the answers.

 

Before the pillory-ing occurs, we already have artificial passing (DRS), artificial gravity (floor generated downforce), artificial tires (Pirelli) and artificial horsepower (turbos and battery power...I kid, sorta).

 

Thoughts on this? 

 

Absolutely, he was right that sprinklers would help spice up the racing. But why do we need or even want to spice up the racing? It's the myriad of initiatives to spice up the racing, over the past decade or two, that has made it much worse than it might otherwise have become. And, sadly, if just continues.

Edited by pdac, 08 April 2025 - 21:50.

[Risil]

I'm getting really sick of people trying to turn this sport into WWF.

Fwiw if they did this in WWF the wrestlers would keep slipping over and it would be a very bad spectacle

[STIGG]

In the words of Michael Scott, "No God. No God please no. No. Noooooooooo."

 

I think this is more a symptom of our dopamine-addicted society rather than a problem F1 needs to solve. Our brains are so overstimulated all the time that we need every single race to be an exciting "classic". And what happens when they're all "classics"? The baseline resets and we need more. We get used to the random-sprinkler-rain-interrupted events and need more gimmicks. Why not add shortcuts? Bernie suggested those too. And how about random mechanical failures? An engine failure here and suspension failure there. The cars are safe now, and crashes add to the excitement... 

 

Was it a boring race? Perhaps. There weren't many overtakes but it wasn't the predicted McLaren 1-2 that everyone expected either. But so what if it was boring? That's bound to happen from time to time, and it's what makes the interesting ones interesting. 

[thegamer23]

No.

Just build cars that are actually smaller, lighter, less aero dependent and more raceable.

Nobody cares if they're 3-4 sec/ lap slower as long as they'll allow for close, exciting racing.

[F1 Mike]

Before I get pilloried and drummed out of the forum, I have a modest proposal: Perhaps Bernie was right about using artificial rain, via a track-side sprinkler system, to help spice up racing. Watching the latest Japanese Grand Prix along with all FP sessions and Qualifying, the only moment worth it was the sublime pole lap from Max Verstappen. I put up there with Lewis Hamilton's Singapore 2017 "Stardust" lap. I consider this a wasted weekend.

That being said, the introduction of a system which would be completely controlled by AI and randomized may provide a solution for this challenge. I'd make the system completely hands off, but for testing prior to the beginning of the GP weekend and NO ONE would know when and during what part of the weekend sessions, quali and race that the system may activate itself. We may get through half the season with nothing the tsunami-like deluges for several races and/or light showers for many more. I don't have all the answers.

Before the pillory-ing occurs, we already have artificial passing (DRS), artificial gravity (floor generated downforce), artificial tires (Pirelli) and artificial horsepower (turbos and battery power...I kid, sorta).

Thoughts on this?

In my 24 years of being a member of this forum, you're the first one who thinks this is a good idea. I think that speaks volumes

[Jerem]

Most F1 races are relatively boring. Suzuka 2025 was not even in the top 10% of boring F1 races. Yes the sport has some serious issues but the entertainment value of the last race is not one of them. So, no need for sprinklers, nail dispensers or red shells to spice up the show.

[P123]

F1 only runs in damp/ intermediate conditions, and those tend to be quite tedious races, with only one racing line and no DRS to assist these tanks past one another. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

How about artificial sandstorm!

[MattK9]

Maybe... they could tow around a bathtub of water each and deploy it at a random point, mario kart style

[GlenWatkins]

No.

Just build cars that are actually smaller, lighter, less aero dependent and more raceable.

Nobody cares if they're 3-4 sec/ lap slower as long as they'll allow for close, exciting racing.

Welcome to the IndyCar thread:  https://forums.autos...-season-thread/

[MKSixer]

In the words of Michael Scott, "No God. No God please no. No. Noooooooooo."

 

I think this is more a symptom of our dopamine-addicted society rather than a problem F1 needs to solve. Our brains are so overstimulated all the time that we need every single race to be an exciting "classic". And what happens when they're all "classics"? The baseline resets and we need more. We get used to the random-sprinkler-rain-interrupted events and need more gimmicks. Why not add shortcuts? Bernie suggested those too. And how about random mechanical failures? An engine failure here and suspension failure there. The cars are safe now, and crashes add to the excitement... 

 

Was it a boring race? Perhaps. There weren't many overtakes but it wasn't the predicted McLaren 1-2 that everyone expected either. But so what if it was boring? That's bound to happen from time to time, and it's what makes the interesting ones interesting. 

After sprinklers we could go to pop-up balloon barriers or AI controlled track modifications. Nothing like a moving chicane to spice up the show...

[MKSixer]

How about artificial sandstorm!

Now that's the spirit!!!

[MKSixer]

Maybe... they could tow around a bathtub of water each and deploy it at a random point, mario kart style

This is the kind of solution that makes Bernie's sprinkler suggestion look like the ramblings of an idiot!!  Great job!!

[GlenWatkins]

good topic btw, MK

[MKSixer]

good topic btw, MK

Thank you, sir. You have one of the best names in all of forumdom!

[danmills]

Or just rejig the calendar every year so we have things like Silverstone in April and Melbourne in October etc and just naturally increase nature's odds.

 

But then the second it rains everything goes super safety so it's utterly pointless hoping for something that ultimately will castrate a race, or even red flag it.

 

We love the chaos rain brings. So it's not necessarily rain but the element of surprise and unpredictability in the race.

 

You can get that with tyre wars. Or engines that last 4 laps and not 4 months. Mid season development. More drivers. More teams. Gravel traps...

Edited by danmills, 08 April 2025 - 22:39.

[MKSixer]

Or just rejig the calendar every year so we have things like Silverstone in April and Melbourne in October etc and just naturally increase nature's odds.

 

But then the second it rains everything goes super safety so it's utterly pointless hoping for something that ultimately will castrate a race, or even red flag it.

I can see this working. And in the case of a red flag, the drivers can report back to the pits and be assigned a golf-cart like people transport to finish an abbreviated 3 lap race. 

[danmills]

Look how exciting the alternative Bahrain track was! It was different. New. Nobody was sure.

 

There are several tracks that could do similar, change up a few corners. Every little helps.

[MikeTekRacing]

That's pretty expensive, though. 

[zeph]

Come to think of it, take a good look at Mario Kart and see how much of that we can implement in the real world.

 

Appearing/disappearing obstructions, bowling balls on track, boost portals that unlock 5 seconds of extra 50HP for every car that passes through, oil spills on parts of the track that force guys off the racing line, tire strips, sheez, even give drivers a number of booby traps they can unleash on the car behind them.

 

And we’ll call it ULTIMATE F1, EXTREME EDITION.

Edited by zeph, 09 April 2025 - 00:24.

[eibyyz]

Volcano!  Popocatepetl isn't too far away from Hermanos Rodriguez...

[Boxerevo]

Sprinkles to wet the track, but no sprinkles to prevent fires on the grass. Ok.

[MKSixer]

Sprinkles to wet the track, but no sprinkles to prevent fires on the grass. Ok.

Don't go getting all practical on us now...

[Beri]

Fake marina was already toe curling. Let alone fake rain.

[LolaB0860]

Welcome to the IndyCar thread: https://forums.autos...-season-thread/

That Thermal Club thriller sure showed the capabilities of 13 year old Dallara

[FirstnameLastname]

So the idea is that on occasion… rain might fall and there would be no way to control this, it would be totally random

Like the actual weather?…

Or perhaps instead of red arrows flying over the pit straight as part of the pre-race ceremony, they do some good old ‘cloud seeding’

Either that or just shower the crowds with hallucinogenics so they enjoy the race regardless

[Lazy]

Fwiw if they did this in WWF the wrestlers would keep slipping over and it would be a very bad spectacle

It would make me laugh.

[tempname11]

Introduce sprinklers, which should not be aimed at the track, but rather at fans who advocate such silly ideas 

[IrvTheSwerve]

Re: ‘shortcuts’…I actually think having a circuit where it splits up into two routes for a sector would actually be quite cool. Granted, F1 teams would find the quickest route and stick to it, but it would be fun to see if a car is stuck in traffic whether they could use the other route to gain places. Sort of like a joker lap, but unlimited. Slightly gimmicky, but at least there’s nothing artificial about it as such.

[DW46]

Re: ‘shortcuts’…I actually think having a circuit where it splits up into two routes for a sector would actually be quite cool. Granted, F1 teams would find the quickest route and stick to it, but it would be fun to see if a car is stuck in traffic whether they could use the other route to gain places. Sort of like a joker lap, but unlimited. Slightly gimmicky, but at least there’s nothing artificial about it as such.

There’s a turn in sector 2 Australia that I’ve used as a shortcut on ever F1 game I’ve had, take the one black and white flag and grab about 10 positions 😂

[7MGTEsup]

I think we should go nuts and have Pirelli make the yres with no markings so no one knows what compound each tyre is and you just get given a stack of tyres at the start of the weekend so you may get a mixture of all sorts even different compounds on each cornenr of the car. Would definately make it interesting.

 

People who moan about how boring it is need to go back and watch some propper boring races in full from back in the day where there is 30 seconds between each car and the top 6 are covered by 3 laps at the end.

Edited by 7MGTEsup, 09 April 2025 - 08:31.

[pdac]

I think we should go nuts and have Pirelli make the yres with no markings so no one knows what compound each tyre is and you just get given a stack of tyres at the start of the weekend so you may get a mixture of all sorts even different compounds on each cornenr of the car. Would definately make it interesting.

 

People who moan about how boring it is need to go back and watch some propper boring races in full from back in the day where there is 30 seconds between each car and the top 6 are covered by 3 laps at the end.

 

Another "let's make it all random" gimmick solutions to perceived problems. Would it not be simpler (and cheaper) just to have a single compound of tyre and then everyone would always be the same. If you're making the tyres "spec" by only having one supplier and dictating to them how the tyres should work, why not go proper spec and make the tyre supplier just that - a supplier.

[Henri Greuter]

I find it difficult to believe that,

in a world where people are dying die to a lack of consumable water,

we are seriously thinking about improving a sport,

that has enough reasons to be questioned already for enviromental reasons,

with wasting and spilling water,

just for the entertainment of the fans of that sport worldwide.

 

 

I don't think F1 can permit itself such gimmicks anymore without a dire blow to its image for non-race fans in the rest of the world.

 

 

 

Edit:  The more while on the occasions when Mother Nature lended a hand with providing water on the race tracks we've seen events being delayed, redflagged, shortenened and even one case reduced to two laps behind the pace car.

Edited by Henri Greuter, 09 April 2025 - 09:20.

[7MGTEsup]

Another "let's make it all random" gimmick solutions to perceived problems. Would it not be simpler (and cheaper) just to have a single compound of tyre and then everyone would always be the same. If you're making the tyres "spec" by only having one supplier and dictating to them how the tyres should work, why not go proper spec and make the tyre supplier just that - a supplier.

 

My suggestion was firmly tongue in cheek, hence the second part of my post saying you need to know what boring is first before you start asking for changes. At the end of the day, you're still watching the fastest circuit cars driving around some of the best circuits in the world. Even back when there were large gaps between cars I still watched and enjoyed the races but maybe my threshold for boredom is infinitely higher than the average persons?

[Anderis]

People who moan about how boring it is need to go back and watch some propper boring races in full from back in the day where there is 30 seconds between each car and the top 6 are covered by 3 laps at the end.

Those races in the past were, for the most part, not boring because the attrition, mistakes and general chaos provided tension and dramaturgy even when the direct fight for position was lacking.

 

We don't have much of that anymore, which is exacerbating the demand for good racing. The races of the past were on average far more eventful outside of wheel to wheel fighting, so they could stand up to scrunity of being a good entertainment product even when direct fight for positions was lacking more so than modern races. Through increased reliability, driving standards and pit wall competence, we've largely lost one source of emotions during races, so if we don't get compensated for that in other areas, I think the criticism or dissatisfaction is valid.

 

 

[LolaB0860]

People who moan about how boring it is need to go back and watch some propper boring races in full from back in the day where there is 30 seconds between each car and the top 6 are covered by 3 laps at the end.

They were boring because the TV direction was god awful and showed nothing

[PayasYouRace]

My suggestion was firmly tongue in cheek, hence the second part of my post saying you need to know what boring is first before you start asking for changes. At the end of the day, you're still watching the fastest circuit cars driving around some of the best circuits in the world. Even back when there were large gaps between cars I still watched and enjoyed the races but maybe my threshold for boredom is infinitely higher than the average persons?

To be fair, there’s probably something to be said for changing the rules regarding tyre usage. At the moment we know exactly what tyres everyone is on at all times and for much of the race we know exactly what their next tyre would be.

It seemed to work ok when the tyres didn’t have their compounds indicated with coloured stripes, and the team’s choice of tyre was more their own.

I wonder if it would work if we removed the two compound rule, and had the teams commit to two compounds for the whole weekend, chosen before the tyres are shipped to each circuit. Seems with three compounds available the chances of everyone being on their ideal tyre are quite high, maybe bring back the rule that you have to choose a single compound from your two options for both qualifying and the race. The 1997 onwards rule. Not sure when that was abolished,

[tempname11]

Another wacky idea is to find a tyre compound, which somehow sticks to a "green" track more than to a rubbered-in track. This is already mostly the case in the rain! However in the dry, more rubber = more grip, and the optimal line becomes even more optimal. If we were to reverse this somehow, it would make alternate lines more viable. So, easier to follow and also, the increased importance of line choice may be interesting.

 

But it might not make sense chemistry-wise, a material that doesn't stick to itself!?

[Ruusperi]

What about sandtraps and water barriers? For Sakhir they could remove the asphalt between T5 and T8 so cars needs to cross 500 meters driving only on gravel and avoiding ponds. Who's got the best offroad skills with F1 cars? That would spice up the show

[B Squared]

Ice and snow is also an alternative:

https://youtu.be/Qoh...fiHNcxIhn-O02MY