104 replies to this topic

[jensfan09]

Russell under investigation:

Alleged breach of Article 22.1 h) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations –
Alleged usage of the DRS system outside the pre-defined activation zones.

Would think that’s a slam dunk?

[frosty125]

Russell under investigation:

Alleged breach of Article 22.1 h) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations –
Alleged usage of the DRS system outside the pre-defined activation zones.

Would think that’s a slam dunk?

Is there precedent?

[Outsider]

Russell under investigation:

Alleged breach of Article 22.1 h) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations –
Alleged usage of the DRS system outside the pre-defined activation zones.

Would think that’s a slam dunk?

they can say it wasn't his fault, but it's technical regulation... and i think it can mean DSQ

[PayasYouRace]

Place to discuss Russell’s issues in the Bahrain Grand Prix, and potential of a penalty.

TLDR: Russell’s car had electronic problems, and that resulted in him opening the DRS when he shouldn’t have, because the radio button activated it.

 

Is it a “slam dunk” penalty? Will there be mitigation? Discuss…

[keshav]

Probably should be a penalty.

[nissan_gtp]

Probably should be a penalty.

Agree. It also impacted Lando’s DRS use if I understood correctly. 

[jee]

I have always been under the impression that DRS had to be enabled by the timing and not just allowed to be used by the driver.

[PayasYouRace]

He was never close enough to another car to use DRS, so what was there to judge?

I reckon that his car was screwing itself up, and it opened of its own accord, going by what George said. Seems like mitigating circumstances, not a clear violation of the rules.

[FLB]

I think it's a lot like a fuel-flow overrun. Intent doesn't matter. Cause does not matter. Effect on performance doesn't matter.

 

EX: Red Bull lose Ricciardo disqualification appeal

[Myrvold]

If it was the case that "pushing radio opened DRS", then that is mitigating.

 

If Russell pushed it, and it opened. Slam dunk.

[Clatter]

Agree. It also impacted Lando’s DRS use if I understood correctly. 

 

Don't think the DRS was the problem, but lack of timing info meant they had to eyeball if they were close enough to use it.

[macjim]

if it’s a car issue, then it would be harsh for a penalty.

 

But you never really know how the stewards will work.

[ArchieTech]

I reckon that his car was screwing itself up, and it opened of its own accord, going by what George said. Seems like mitigating circumstances, not a clear violation of the rules.

They did mention the dash might go off so does sound like a car issue rather than just the transponder component. But I feel that's more likely to get them a punishment than if it was just the transponder that failed. Then again giving a place back for an overtake off track is a thing, so maybe...

 

I think George explained it in his interview so he could get the narrative out there that he backed off, which is understandable - I'd have done the same.

[TomNokoe]

I think it's a lot like a fuel-flow overrun. Intent doesn't matter. Cause does not matter. Effect on performance doesn't matter.

EX: Red Bull lose Ricciardo disqualification appeal

I think Russell will get away with it

[d246]

Lucky he didn't use the radio in fast corner.

[keshav]

Lucky he didn't use the radio in fast corner.

Is there anyway to validate this? That he pressed the radio button and the DRS opened? He could have hit the button by mistake.

[Clatter]

I reckon that his car was screwing itself up, and it opened of its own accord, going by what George said. Seems like mitigating circumstances, not a clear violation of the rules.

 

Driver making excuses?? He claimed it opened when he pressed the radio button, unless something within the FIA's control can make this happen it's a system error in the teams control, and definitely a violation. Considering Sainz having a stomach issue wasn't considered a mitigation, I don't see why sporting errors should be overlooked.

[Outsider]

also if he happens to have DSQ then live timing was for about 15 race correct showing Russel as the last one

[Fastcake]

I await the stewards report. If it is as Russell said and the DRS malfunctioned and opened by itself then it would seem harsh to issue a penalty. But then, it was still likely Russell gained an advantage from the DRS being open even unwittingly, and a penalty would still be warranted.

 

If it wasn't a pure accident like Russell said, and it opened when the team were judging it manually, then it would be a case of bad luck, but a penalty is still justified. The stewards would argue if the DRS is not working correctly, you don't have to use it.

Edited by Fastcake, 13 April 2025 - 17:22.

[PassWind]

Russell under investigation:
Alleged breach of Article 22.1 h) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations –
Alleged usage of the DRS system outside the pre-defined activation zones.
Would think that’s a slam dunk?

Georges explanation seemed fair to me and if the data the FIA has full access to proves that out I don't see why the driver should be penalized for it.

[Eyeshield]

If Sainz got a penalty for needing a to let it rip before the japanese national anthem then this is a slam dunk.

[chrcol]

Is there anyway to validate this? That he pressed the radio button and the DRS opened? He could have hit the button by mistake.

Sounds like all sorts of electronics were malfunctioning so could argue telemetry is unreliable.

 

But his story says radio button opened GPS, yet it worked ok when he closed it, so I think the key will be the claimed lift off he said he did.  Thats hard to prove due to him having no timing, just the lap times.

I feel like it should be let go, but I dont know what the rules are when it comes to technical issues causing rule breaches.

 

Initially he lost timing transponder.

Then GPS (tracker)

Then onboard footage.

 

This is on top of the issues he reported to the team. and the team telling him his steering wheel controls might stop working.  Interestingly the start of lap timing stayed working till end of race, guess thats a different part to the one that does the constant updates.

Edited by chrcol, 13 April 2025 - 17:24.

[keshav]

I await the stewards report. If it is as Russell said and the DRS malfunctioned and opened by itself then it would seem harsh to issue a penalty. But then, it was still likely Russell gained an advantage from the DRS being open even unwittingly, and a penalty would still be warranted.

If it wasn't a pure accident like Russell said, and it opened when the team were judging it manually, then it would be a case of bad luck, but a penalty is still justified. The stewards would argue if the DRS is not working correctly, you don't have to use it.

He wasn't close to Piastri to worry about it anyway.

[frosty125]

As a McLaren fan I’m certainly not arguing for George to get a penalty. Hopefully FIA apply the sporting rules (whatever they are) correctly.

Edited by frosty125, 13 April 2025 - 18:10.

[SophieB]

Sky dug out this which on the face of it, seems like precedent.

 

 

https://www.autospor...318644/5318644/

[Beri]

Russell under investigation:
Alleged breach of Article 22.1 h) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations –
Alleged usage of the DRS system outside the pre-defined activation zones.
Would think that’s a slam dunk?

Slam dunk being acquitted you mean?

[Red5ive]

Meh - but iof a non-event. He said he backed off so no advantage. Penalties should fit the actual crime and none of this “ ah but the rules !’ Rubbish. So I am sure the stewards will give him 10 years hard labour.

[LolaB0860]

Meh - but iof a non-event. He said he backed off so no advantage. Penalties should fit the actual crime and none of this “ ah but the rules !’ Rubbish. So I am sure the stewards will give him 10 years hard labour.

100% disagree. As soon as technical regulations become a loose collection of "guidelines" and everything can be argued about or bypassed, it becomes a joke, as it has in many other motorsport series in recent years. That's endless can of worms for problems, much as the same way as say track limits are. It shouldn't matter one bit whether problems are accidental or intentional, whether there were gains or not.

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 April 2025 - 18:05.

[Wuzak]

Meh - but iof a non-event. He said he backed off so no advantage. Penalties should fit the actual crime and none of this “ ah but the rules !’ Rubbish. So I am sure the stewards will give him 10 years hard labour.

 

The "actual crime" was that he opened the DRS when he shouldn't have.

 

The only question is whether the mitigating circumstances are enough to avoid penalty.

 

The precedent cited above was for a DRS system failure, not specifically a failure on one car.

[Wuzak]

100% disagree. As soon as technical regulations become a loose collection of "guidelines" and everything can be argued about or bypassed, it becomes a joke, as it has in many other motorsport series in recent years. That's endless can of worms for problems, much as the same way as say track limits are. It shouldn't matter one bit whether problems are accidental or intentional, whether there were gains or not.

 

The DRS is defined in the technical regulations, but where and when is in the sporting regulations.

 

If the DRS opens too wide - technical infrignement.

If the DRS is operated when not permitted - sporting infringement.

[keshav]

When do we get the result?

[PayasYouRace]

Driver making excuses?? He claimed it opened when he pressed the radio button, unless something within the FIA's control can make this happen it's a system error in the teams control, and definitely a violation. Considering Sainz having a stomach issue wasn't considered a mitigation, I don't see why sporting errors should be overlooked.

Well if Sainz’ stomach issue is the litmus test, then we’re well beyond fair governance anyway so a penalty is guaranteed and will be overly harsh.

[TomNokoe]

I would be really surprised if he was penalised. The one place drops yesterday were already lenient. Suspect this will continue.

[PayasYouRace]

Sounds like all sorts of electronics were malfunctioning so could argue telemetry is unreliable.

 

But his story says radio button opened GPS, yet it worked ok when he closed it, so I think the key will be the claimed lift off he said he did.  Thats hard to prove due to him having no timing, just the lap times.

I feel like it should be let go, but I dont know what the rules are when it comes to technical issues causing rule breaches.

 

Initially he lost timing transponder.

Then GPS (tracker)

Then onboard footage.

 

This is on top of the issues he reported to the team. and the team telling him his steering wheel controls might stop working.  Interestingly the start of lap timing stayed working till end of race, guess thats a different part to the one that does the constant updates.

I think one of the Sky team reported that the FIA had reverted to their optical system for timing at the line, so it would be independent of the faults on his car.

[onewingedangel]

Suspect it'll be no further action,but as it was activated incorrectly after Mercedes overrode the normal system it'll be fair enough if there is a penalty.

[Ali_G]

Lucky he didn't use the radio in fast corner.

Drivers generally don’t use their radios mid corner.

[Clatter]

Well if Sainz’ stomach issue is the litmus test, then we’re well beyond fair governance anyway so a penalty is guaranteed and will be overly harsh.

 

Nah, it will be lenient. It's obvious that the penalty for being late for the anthem is a far more heinous offence than something like an unsafe release.

[beachdrifter]

I think Russell will be promoted by 1 place to make up for the technical difficulties he had.

[Mc_Silver]

I think Russell will be promoted by 1 place to make up for the technical difficulties he had.

lol

[Hellenic tifosi]

No further action.

[FLB]

No further action.

Confirmed. The decision: https://www.fia.com/...nfringement.pdf

Edited by FLB, 13 April 2025 - 19:09.

[messy]

Good. He's been superb this weekend.

[Yoshi]

Right decision 

[balmybaldwin]

Right decision.

 

The FIA(or is it FOM?) have had a shocker this year on race control tech. we've had all sorts of systems failures, timing issues etc.  2 out of 4 races now the timing system has failed leaving viewers in the dark for substantial periods, and these issue with drs effected Leclerc and Norris as well (they just didnt knock the button at the wrong time). They are running buggy code

Edited by balmybaldwin, 13 April 2025 - 19:32.

[PayasYouRace]

Good, sensible decision.

[Fastcake]

As it didn't give Russell any advantage after all, it seems fair and reasonable. No doubt the FIA will find new ways to disappoint us next week to rectify this unusual outcome.

[Gareth]

Like the ‘provided by an external party’ bit of the decision.

I assume this means the FIA are responsible for providing the bit of tech that was the ultimate cause of all the issues, but they don’t want to admit it directly?

[Wuzak]

Like the ‘provided by an external party’ bit of the decision.

I assume this means the FIA are responsible for providing the bit of tech that was the ultimate cause of all the issues, but they don’t want to admit it directly?

 

Russell had electrical failures in his car, which likely caused transponder issues, and definitely caused his DRS issue.

 

Norris' issue was that Russell's transponder wasn't working properly, so the system would not know if the gap was under 1s.

 

Not sure what Leclerc's failure was.

[peroa]

Like the ‘provided by an external party’ bit of the decision.

I assume this means the FIA are responsible for providing the bit of tech that was the ultimate cause of all the issues, but they don’t want to admit it directly?

The timing system/screen in the 2nd half of the race had general issues anyway, it would seem, once again.

[Bleu]

The timing system/screen in the 2nd half of the race had general issues anyway, it would seem, once again.

 

With Russell's transponder issue, he dropped to the back of the field and once he reached the finish line, he moved back up to 2nd. So that it doesn't happen every lap, timing tower just updated as every driver went through the finish line, and there was no mini-sector updates.