42 replies to this topic

[Tsarwash]

Which team made the fastest car in 2024 ? (apologies if this thread is a duplicate, please delete if so Also apologies if the thread is against the forum rules.) The final standings suggest that Mclaren did closely followed by Ferrari with Red Bull a short distance behind. And Mercedes clearly building the forth best car.

McLaren 666 points

Ferrari 652

Red Bull 589

 

But considering that Max is obviously a little better than Carlos/Lando/Oscar and Charles, and Perez performed poorly last year, what is the real relative position of the teams.

 

Max 437 points

Lando 374

Charles 356

Oscar 292

Carlos 290

And Perez 8th position with 152

 

So the standings seem to suggest Red Bull had the third best car, with the Mclaren the best, but if we assume the Perez underperformed and a different driver has scored say a hundred points more than Perez with 252, that would (in very simple terms) put the Red Bull at the top of the points standings.

 

Personally I think it is actually pretty close betweent he three and no concrete conclusions can be taken. And no I am not trying to wind up people or start a flame war here, I am just interested in hearing people's opinions.

 

Edit, I am an idiot.

Edited by Tsarwash, 21 April 2025 - 09:28.

[PayasYouRace]

Did you post this from the future? We’re only four races in.

[LikeItLoud]

I think the general consensus is Red Bull were the fastest for the first few races (which Max dominated), then McLaren became the dominant car and Max's skill is what made him keep the championship lead for the rest of the year. 

[PrinceBira]

Red Bull were the clear fastest until around Imola, after that second fastest or lower.

Overall I’ll remember the season as:

1. Mclaren
2. RB
3. Ferrari
4. Mercedes

Edited by PrinceBira, 20 April 2025 - 15:06.

[FirstnameLastname]

I couldn’t have foreseen the Gasly championship. We saw a few flashes in those early races, but Alpine really came through once we hit Europe.

Probably the main factor behind that high sale price to the Saudis. Will he interesting seeing Flav back at the helm full time next year. Nice to see Renault bow out with a championship.

[hollowstar]

Given the way Ferrari had started the season, even I was shocked to see Lewis win 15 races, finally get his 8th title and bring glory back to Maranello. What a legend!

[Anderis]

I'm from Alpha Centauri and we currently can see no further than the year 2021 in terms of what happened on planet Earth. Can we please avoid spoilers?

[Gravelngrass]

Sauber really pulled the most amazing turnaround of the history of F1.
Didn’t think Trump was going to bite the dust so soon either. Who would have thought tanning cabins were so dangerous…

Edited by Gravelngrass, 20 April 2025 - 15:50.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm from Alpha Centauri and we currently can see no further than the year 2021 in terms of what happened on planet Earth. Can we please avoid spoilers?

Did you pay extra for wormhole access to this forum?

[LolaB0860]

Did you pay extra for wormhole access to this forum?

 

There are other routes

 

[Spillage]

It's McLaren and it's not close. Whatever Lando says.

[1player]

Just saw this post after my rant on the race thread so I’ll ask again:

Why do people care so much to determine which is the best car? I do not get it.

EDIT: to answer: best is not a binary thing. A car might be good at X and terrible at Y. There is no sensible, universal answer. Usually on a given circuit it’s the car that goes fastest.

Edited by 1player, 20 April 2025 - 19:16.

[Disgrace]

Nice to see you posting again, Tsarwash.

[Anderis]

Why do people care so much to determine which is the best car? I do not get it.

I mean why wouldn't they? In this sport you are never 100% sure how close to the limit of the car a driver is, so it's an interesting discussion to be had.
 

[Augurk]

Did you pay extra for wormhole access to this forum?

Obviously his post was also made in 2021, It just happend
to land in this thread.

[Tsarwash]

I am sorry for writing the incorrect year THREE times in the post. I of course meant 2024. I wasn't even slightly drunk when I typed the post. Thank you for the replies however.

[jonklug]

Who had the best car in 2030?

Discuss

[DW46]

Who had the best car in 2030?

Discuss

Difficult to say but great to see Fernando still hanging in there looking for number #3

[IrvTheSwerve]

I mean why wouldn't they? In this sport you are never 100% sure how close to the limit of the car a driver is, so it's an interesting discussion to be had.
 

There’s this strange trend, particularly in the McLaren thread, where people are saying we either shouldn’t discuss (or it’s pointless discussing) whether Lando or Piastri is the stronger driver or whether the car is the quickest or not…or just stifling any kind of discussion that could produce disagreement. I really don’t get it on a discussion forum.

[Ivanhoe]

Thread title changed. Voted for McLaren who overall had the best car over the whole season.

[AlexPrime]

McLaren. But you know, it's not so simple. Red Bull had the faster car for a small amount of the championship, but when they did, they were miles ahead, which allowed Max to build a big gap. When McLaren were ahead, they were just ahead, which made them vulnerable. 

[Ali623]

McLaren. But you know, it's not so simple. Red Bull had the faster car for a small amount of the championship, but when they did, they were miles ahead, which allowed Max to build a big gap. When McLaren were ahead, they were just ahead, which made them vulnerable. 

 

It was only really the first 5 races Red Bull were miles ahead - one of which Verstappen DNF'd, so more like 4 (Bahrain, Saudi, Japan, China). McLaren you could say were miles ahead in at least Hungary, Netherlands and Singapore - so it virtually evens out in that metric.

[Marklar]

There’s this strange trend, particularly in the McLaren thread, where people are saying we either shouldn’t discuss (or it’s pointless discussing) whether Lando or Piastri is the stronger driver or whether the car is the quickest or not…or just stifling any kind of discussion that could produce disagreement. I really don’t get it on a discussion forum.

The former McLaren technical thread (that now merged) was infamous for being a Clubhouse that didnt tolerate opinions from others. It was particularly a thing during the Honda days where anything but "McLaren has the best chassis on the grid" was deemed to be an unacceptable opinion to have.

I guess it carried over to similar inconvenient matters.

[Astandahl]

On average McLaren for sure but there is an important thing to underline.

 

For the first races up to Miami, minus Melbourne, RB was in another league and had a colossal advantage.

 

Ferrari on average was third fastest. They were the best car in Melbourne, COTA (Race trim only) and Mexico. No they were not the best car in Monaco. Leclerc and Sainz are two Monaco specialists, you can check their record in qualifying.

Edited by Astandahl, 21 April 2025 - 13:14.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm not sure the question really makes sense. How do you calculate your averages across the races (assuming you have a definite pecking order in each race)?

It's an advantage for a car to be the fastest when other cars are roughly equal 2nd taking points off each other. But then another car might be the fastest at other races with the original fastest car still a clear 2nd. But is one car considered faster overall just because it had a better chance to pick up points?

Edited by PlatenGlass, 21 April 2025 - 12:20.

[Tsarwash]

Thread title changed. Voted for McLaren who overall had the best car over the whole season.

Thank you very much.

[Benchulo]

McLaren. I thought in Monaco, Canada, Austria, Belgium and Italy, the winners were not driving the fastest car during the weekend.

[Tsarwash]

I'm not sure the question really makes sense. How do you calculate your averages across the races (assuming you have a definite pecking order in each race)?

It's an advantage for a car to be the fastest when other cars are roughly equal 2nd taking points off each other. But then another car might be the fastest at other races with the original fastest car still a clear 2nd. But is one car considered faster overall just because it had a better chance to pick up points?

Well in many years one car does have an advantage over the overs. But last year the picture was clearly more complicated than that.  Having the memory of a goldfish, I had forgotten all of this but thankfully posters here have reminded me of the fact.

 

A few things I will add is that looking back at race and quali results, it seems that Ferrari did have the laster car at Monaco, and in some races it seems as though the Red Bull was the car to beat in qualifying and the Mclaren the one with the pace during the race itself.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Throughout the season, both RedBull and McLaren had the fair share of fastest car.

 

At the beginning of the season, RedBull clearly was the fastest/dominant and then in the middle of the season McLaren had the fastest car and towards the end of the season, both RedBull and McLaren were pretty much equal specially after RedBull upgraded their car to solve a specific problem.

Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 21 April 2025 - 13:08.

[noikeee]

Red Bull was clearly the fastest for a couple of months but McLaren quickly caught up and then was fastest for a longer period.

I don't think this is even a question and I'm surprised it's being asked. The poll numbers (88% for McLaren at the moment) speak for themselves. Then Ferrari being even an option is taking the piss.

Edited by noikeee, 21 April 2025 - 19:07.

[mclarensmps]

It's McLaren and it's not close. Whatever Lando says.

 

 

[Tsarwash]

Red Bull was clearly the fastest for a couple of months but McLaren quickly caught up and then was fastest for a longer period.

I don't think this is even a question and I'm surprised it's being asked. The poll numbers (88% for McLaren at the moment) speak for themselves. Then Ferrari being even an option is taking the piss.

That is fair enough. But it does suggest that the two Ferrari drivers overperformed or the two Mclaren drivers under perfromed or some combination of the two.

[Ferrim]

Or that, post-Miami, Red Bull only had one competitive car.

[Tsarwash]

Or that, post-Miami, Red Bull only had one competitive car.

More accurately that ought to say only had one competitive driver. I imagine both the cars were fine.

[RPM40]

Mclaren for sure.

Red Bull had a faster car for about 5 races, and then they had a similar car for 4-5 races.

From them on in mclaren was faster practically all of the time.

The difference with last year was Red Bull did have that period of being best that allowed Max to build a points advantage and from there on in he was able to maintain that points lead.

He’s doing a similar thing this season and is only 2 points off Norris after 5 rounds with an inferior car. The difference is he didn’t have the 5 or so rounds of having the best car.

[Heyli]

Thread title changed. Voted for McLaren who overall had the best car over the whole season.

Boring. It thought the 2025 pre-post season discussion was potentially a lot more interesting!

[realracer200]

McLaren by a country mile.

Edited by realracer200, 22 April 2025 - 18:05.

[Joseki]

McLaren had the fastest car for probably 45% of the season, Red Bull for 30% and Ferrari for 25%.

[Marklar]

I did last year two races before the end a little subjective breakdown because it was a common opinion back in the day to say that while McLaren had over longer periods the best car the fact that Red Bull was dominant for some races at the start balances it out, so I weighted the races by how dominant I think the cars were, and had McLaren a bit ahead overall. not much, but still significant enough to say that even if you disagree with how I judged some races you'd still get the same order
 

6 points: dominant
5 points: quickest
4 points: competitive/joint quickest (basically races where I dont think the driver had the quickest car clearly or even joint in many cases, but where a win was possible regardless, in some races no one is ranked as quickest. I have put some weird compromisses in this category, e.g. Red Bull would have been further down in Brazil in the dry but I thought it was not appropriate to rate what was eventually a dominant win this low, likewise Leclerc in Spa who technically had the outright 4th quickest car but was somehow in the mix for the win too)
3 points: 2nd quickest but no chance for the win
2 points: 3rd quickest but no chance for the win
1 point: outright 4th quickest

So I get this, my very subjective opinion

Red Bull - 81 points
dominant (4): Bahrain, Saudi, Japan, China
quickest (1): Imola
competitive/joint quickest (9): Australia, Miami, Canada, Spain, Austria, Britain, Belgium, Baku, Sao Paulo
2nd quickest but no chance to win (2): Hungary, Singapore
3rd quickest, no winning chance (4): Monaco, Zandvoort, Austin, Vegas
outright 4th quickest (2): Monza, Mexico

McLaren - 87 points
dominant (3): Hungary, Zandvoort, Singapore
quickest (6): Spain, Austria, Belgium, Baku, Mexico, Sao Paulo
competitive/joint quickest (7): Miami, Imola, Monaco, Canada, Britain, Monza, Austin
2nd quickest, no chance to win (1): China
3rd quickest, no winning chance (3): Saudi, Australia, Japan
outright 4th quickest (2): Bahrain, Vegas

Ferrari - 60 points
dominant (0)
quickest (3): Australia, Monaco, Austin
competitive/joint quickest (4): Belgium, Monza, Baku, Mexico
2nd quickest, no chance to win (5): Bahrain, Saudi, Japan, Zandvoort, Vegas
3rd quickest, no winning chance (4): China, Miami, Imola, Sao Paulo
outright 4th quickest (6): Canada, Spain, Austria, Britain, Hungary, Singapore

Now I do concede that there are certainly bits you can rate differently (e.g. often McLaren came only alive in the races, you can always argue how much it trumps a quali deficit like for example in Austria), but I think both sides would find something so I think therabouts it's fine

I'd btw judge the last two races that are missing here for Red Bull with 4 points (Qatar) and 1 point (Abu Dhabi) & 4 points (Qatar) and 5 points (Abu Dhabi) for McLaren.

[renzmann]

With all due respect, I think it's absurd to consider RBR were fastest, or McLaren weren't, respectively. It wasn't even close. It wasn't a confusing question either (this year, it might turn out to be).

Edited by Afterburner, 22 April 2025 - 14:57.
Please don't make this thread about other posters.

[Tsarwash]

With all due respect, I think it's absurd to consider RBR were fastest, or McLaren weren't, respectively. It wasn't even close. It wasn't a confusing question either (this year, it might turn out to be).

If you look at Marklar's post above yours I would say it is not straightforward, and has much nuance. Overall the consensus seems to be Mclaren, but for certain races it could have been any of the three. For instance, at COTA it is difficult to say the Ferraris were not the fastest car on the Sunday.

[PlatenGlass]

Wasn't Ferrari quickest in Mexico?

[TheAviator]

McLaren had the fastest car for probably 45% of the season, Red Bull for 30% and Ferrari for 25%.

Ferrari in 25%? News to us Ferrari fans lol

Even at Monaco we were not fastest.