464 replies to this topic

[Anja]

I get really tired of them trying to make one of the modern drivers as the greatest ever. Their comparisons get quite annoying. It seems as if they want somebody/anybody in IndyCar to be to the greatest, as long as it's not somebody from the past.

I've got a personally shot video tape from 1981 on pit lane at Michigan in which Mario Andretti asks teammate Gordon Johncock about their team owner: "you know why he's an a******? Because he's an a******."

Using the same thought process, you know why past IndyCar greats are considered legends? because they're legends.

 

I think a lot of it stems from too much focus on statistics these days. All about the numbers while ignoring the cars' reliability and myriad of other factors that changed over the years. 

 

On the other hand, it might be a conscious strategy to make the domination look more interesting to the viewer. Same as F1 did in the Hamilton era, when we've heard constant talk about chasing yet another record. 

[Jim Thurman]

 
Late last year my Youtube algorithm went US college football crazy and I learned lots of things including how at the lower levels there is a rule where if a match-up is too one-sided, the teams can agree to call off the remainder of the tie rather than risk(?) a really large score being racked up. I have never heard of this in Europe, except I guess in something like boxing where you might stop a fight before somebody is hurt.
 
Anyway that's a total digression. But the Wikipedia page did conjure up this chilling scenario:
 

 

So presumably without the rule if you had a good baseball team (or for that matter a very bad one) you could prolong an innings indefinitely and escape math, exams, conversations about the future and all the other inconveniences of junior academia.

Well, yes and no, Risil. Not in college football, but women's college softball, and many high school and youth sports have a "Mercy Rule."  I witnessed some staggering mismatches during my high school years in San Diego (55-0, 65-7 in football), and they were never stopped. 

Endless innings? Yes, they could conceivably happen in baseball, but isn't that more a thing with cricket?    After a certain point, play would be suspended, as has happened with some baseball games that have gone a ridiculous number of extra innings while remaining tied. 

[Myrvold]

Yeah, sandlot baseball rules when I was a kid was that the game was over if one of the teams was up by 10.  But that didn't mean we stopped playing, just that we admitted someone had already won.

 

Norway is somewhat "extreme" when it comes to rules about children and competition. Like, it is not allowed to crown a Norwegian champion in anything for kids under 13. From the age of 11, there may be results, standings and rankings if it is expedient.

In football (or soccer), there are some rules to try to help out development and playtime, but if a team is leading with 4 or more goals, the team that is behind is allowed to add one extra player to the field. This is meant to make the match somewhat closer, more fun for the losing team, while also making it a bit harder for the winning team, which will make the match a place where the winning team can get some challenges and help them develop as well.

[juicy sushi]

I think a lot of it stems from too much focus on statistics these days. All about the numbers while ignoring the cars' reliability and myriad of other factors that changed over the years. 

 

On the other hand, it might be a conscious strategy to make the domination look more interesting to the viewer. Same as F1 did in the Hamilton era, when we've heard constant talk about chasing yet another record. 

There is no way a company doesn't try to play up its product as amazing.  It would be malpractice if they didn't hype Palou, regardless of the historical context.  You're not selling Indycar's past, you need to be selling Indycar's RIGHT NOW.

[juicy sushi]

Norway is somewhat "extreme" when it comes to rules about children and competition. Like, it is not allowed to crown a Norwegian champion in anything for kids under 13. From the age of 11, there may be results, standings and rankings if it is expedient.

In football (or soccer), there are some rules to try to help out development and playtime, but if a team is leading with 4 or more goals, the team that is behind is allowed to add one extra player to the field. This is meant to make the match somewhat closer, more fun for the losing team, while also making it a bit harder for the winning team, which will make the match a place where the winning team can get some challenges and help them develop as well.

Interesting.  I wasn't referring to organized sports, myself.  It was just my friends and I playing baseball on a field near the lakefront.  The main goal was to not put a ball through the window of the church, and we had to play in the opposite direction if there was a service on and the church parking lot was in use.

[paulb]

On another forum, someone said if Palou were a cyclist we would accuse him of doping. He is not wrong.

[juicy sushi]

I mean, if he were a cyclist, I'd be sure he was.  Along with everyone else.  There hasn't been any clean winner of the big cycling races in the last century.

[red stick]

I think it's a great credit to Palou, and the fact that he already has three championships helps, that his competitors aren't darkly suggesting that more inspection is necessary, but admit they're being outpaced, outstrategized, outqualified, and outpitted.

[paulb]

I think it's a great credit to Palou, and the fact that he already has three championships helps, that his competitors aren't darkly suggesting that more inspection is necessary, but admit they're being outpaced, outstrategized, outqualified, and outpitted.

Since Ganassi is sharing data between the cars, does it point to the soft matter in the driver's seat as the prime differentiator? Hmmmm.

[prommer]

 
Late last year my Youtube algorithm went US college football crazy and I learned lots of things including how at the lower levels there is a rule where if a match-up is too one-sided, the teams can agree to call off the remainder of the tie rather than risk(?) a really large score being racked up.

 

Well, yes and no, Risil. Not in college football, but women's college softball, and many high school and youth sports have a "Mercy Rule."  I witnessed some staggering mismatches during my high school years in San Diego (55-0, 65-7 in football), and they were never stopped. 

Endless innings? Yes, they could conceivably happen in baseball, but isn't that more a thing with cricket?

 

It's been a while since I've read Pickwick Papers, but it's conceivable that there was some sort of mercy rule involved in the match between All Muggleton and Dingley Dell, fwiw.

 

It's on me for not brushing up on my Dickens prior to the GP... should've seen it coming, frankly. 

[Frood]

Indy NXT race pace data from the weekend, if you like that sorta thing:

Race 1                                         Race 2
Pos  Driver       Avg Lap  %age      St.Dev    Pos  Driver       Avg Lap  %age      St.Dev
 1.  Hughes        76.371  100.000%   0.234     1.  Hauger        76.871  100.000%   0.289
 2.  Collet        76.462  100.119%   0.274     2.  Hughes        77.013  100.186%   0.220
 3.  Rowe          76.533  100.212%   0.333     3.  Collet        77.186  100.233%   0.233
 4.  De Alba       76.631  100.341%   0.314     4.  Rowe          77.203  100.433%   0.239
 5.  Hedge         76.682  100.407%   0.465     5.  De Alba       77.212  100.444%   0.198
 6.  Pierson       76.806  100.570%   0.425     6.  Pierson       77.284  100.537%   0.354
 7.  Roe           76.990  100.810%   0.561     7.  Johnson       77.370  100.650%   0.272
 8.  Sceats        77.039  100.875%   0.449     8.  Koolen        77.405  100.695%   0.178
 9.  Hauger        77.061  100.905%   0.616     9.  Sceats        77.405  100.695%   0.283
10.  Johnson       77.077  100.925%   0.372    10.  Roe           77.484  100.798%   0.210
11.  Missig        77.221  101.114%   0.573    11.  Murray        77.521  100.845%   0.325
12.  Miller        77.255  101.158%   0.508    12.  Hedge         77.524  100.850%   0.591
13.  Papasavvas    77.298  101.214%   0.543    13.  Allaer        77.624  100.980%   0.386
14.  Murray        77.498  101.476%   0.727    14.  Papasavvas    77.688  101.064%   0.626
15.  Aron          77.570  101.571%   0.836    15.  Correa        77.892  101.329%   0.357
16.  Koolen        77.614  101.628%   1.358    16.  Missig        77.918  101.362%   0.422
17.  Escotto       77.619  101.635%   0.838    17.  Aron          77.963  101.421%   0.526
18.  Smith         77.795  101.865%   0.747    18.  Escotto       78.141  101.653%   0.406
19.  Allaer        77.931  102.044%   1.118    19.  Miller        78.161  101.679%   0.394
20.  Deegan        78.883  103.290%   0.875    20.  Smith         78.267  101.817%   1.113
21.  Correa        too few laps completed      21.  Deegan        78.797  102.507%   0.522

Team-mate comparisons:

Race 1                             Race 2
Abel      Rowe        100.000%     Abel      Rowe        100.000%
          Hedge       100.195%               Hedge       100.416%  
          Missig      100.900%               Missig      100.925%
          Miller      100.944%               Miller      101.240%

Andretti  Hughes      100.000%     Andretti  Hauger      100.000%
          De Alba     100.341%               Hughes      100.186%
          Roe         100.810%               De Alba     100.444%
          Hauger      100.905%               Roe         100.798%        
          Murray      101.476%               Murray      100.845%
          Escotto     101.635%               Escotto     101.653%

Ganassi   Aron        100.000%     Ganassi   Koolen      100.000%
          Koolen      100.057%               Aron        100.722%

HMD       Collet      100.000%     HMD       Collet      100.000%
          Pierson     100.450%               Pierson     100.126%
          Sceats      100.755%               Johnson     100.238%
          Johnson     100.804%               Sceats      100.283%
          Papasavvas  101.094%               Allaer      100.567%
          Smith       101.743%               Papasavvas  100.650%
          Allaer      101.922%               Correa      100.914%
          Deegan      103.166%               Smith       101.400%
          Correa      N/A                    Deegan      102.087%

[10kDA]

I think it's a great credit to Palou, and the fact that he already has three championships helps, that his competitors aren't darkly suggesting that more inspection is necessary, but admit they're being outpaced, outstrategized, outqualified, and outpitted.

"And BTW absolutely nothing is still going on with push to pass on our cars..."

[red stick]

That was Penske. My point is that in an industry where seeking every advantage is expected, no one has suggested cheating. It's refreshing.

Edited by red stick, 13 May 2025 - 00:06.

[jonpollak]

Time for the champagne!!!!!!

-we don't have any...


How difficult can it be to set a proper podium celebration?

(edit: the announcer said it was time to spray the champagne, but no bottles had been handed out to the drivers)

They are so amateurish. It is bizarre.

https://youtube.com/...YbXsLUQXAEhoBdG

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 12 May 2025 - 23:45.

[10kDA]

That was Penske.

That was my point. Encouraging a little "extra" scrutiny for some can result in a lot of "extra" scrutiny for everybody.