271 replies to this topic

[prettyface]

Hi everyone again. I'm afraid I'm going to bother some of you with this very basic question, but if English is not my first language, what chances do I have with French and German? I'm having to imagine some silly sounds in my head all the time when I read these names and I'd much rather learn the correct pronunciation with your help than develop bad habits.

Anyway, how do you pronounce:

Eau Rouge
Levegh
Behra
Nordschleife
Sudschleife
Caracciola -just like in italian?

The Spanish-speaking commentators at PSN and my local stations are no help at all... they pronounce Irvine as "eerveene".

[Bernd]

This is hard I'm from the pre-phonetic's school

Eau Rouge = 'O' Rouge as in Moulin Rouge
Levegh = Layvay
Behra = Bayra
Nordschelife = Nord-schleef
Sudschleife = Sood-schleef

Yes for caracciola.

Some of these are likely wrong, but they are how I say them

[Leif Snellman]

Südschleife - SYYD-Schleife
Caracciola - Caratsch-OLA

[404KF2]

I'll have a go:

Eau Rouge: "Oh Rouzhe"
Levegh: "Levek" (like Levesque)
Behra: "Bear-a"
Nordschleife: "Nord sch-life-uh"
Sudschleife: "Soud sch-life-uh"
Caracciola: -just like in italian? "Si"

I know what you mean about Spanish-speakers butchering foreign names. I once was trying to buy a Renault Dauphine part at a dealer near Alarcon in Spain. I said "Dauphine" the French way (Doh-feen) and the parts guys stared at me in dumfounded amazement. I tried a few more times. No way - they didn't get it. So I wrote the car's name down on a piece of paper and gave it to them. Their faces lighted up with broad smiles of understanding. "Ahh, Dow-peen-ay!"


PS they didn't have the part. D'oh!

[FEV]

Hey guys I think you need a french linguist point of vue on that!

Eau Rouge: as Bernd said O Rouge like Moulin Rouge.

Levegh: LE (like LE Mans) and VEGH (like an EGG).

Behra: don't pronounce the H: BERA (like OPERA).

Nordschleife: Nord you say NORT and in SCHLEIFE the EI is
pronounced like an EYE.

Südschleife: same thing for SCHLEIFE. For SÜD, the Ü is
pronounced [y] in international phonetic alphabet but this sound
does not exist in English or even in Spanish: so I can't give you
an exemple.

Caracciola: Pretty much like in italian. KARATCHIOLA (that's why
his knick name was KARATSCH).

See you,
FEV

[Gary Davies]

And if there are any Aussies in the house with access to Alan Jones, would they kindly ask him to say "Veel-nerve" and not "Villynoov".

There! Got it off my chest!

Vanwall

[FEV]

By way, there are a few english ones I've never been too sure
about:

Hesketh. Do you say hesskiss? hessketch? hisskiss?
Thruxton? sruxton or truxton?
Gilbey: Gilbi, Gilbay or even Djilbi?
Ecclestone? Ecclestone or "give me the money, man"?

[30ft penguin]

Originally posted by FEV
Südschleife: same thing for SCHLEIFE. For SÜD, the Ü is pronounced "y" in international phonetic alphabet but this sound does not exist in English or even in Spanish: so I can't give you an exemple.

Heh, yes, the "ü" is a hard one to describe to an English-speaking person. Try this: think of it as approximately the "y" in "myth", but really looooong. Like myyyyyyyyth. So that the "SÜD" becomes "SYYYYYYYYYYD". That, more or less, is it. Also, the "SCHLEIFE" has the "e" at the end pronounced. Like "schl-eye-fe". So we end up with the monstrosity "Syyyyyd-schleye-fe"

[Darren Galpin]

I'm getting confused here. Myth is pronounced "m-i-th", and according to the German lessons I had, in German the "ü" is a bit like "oo". So it would be pronounced "s-oo-dschl-eye-fuh", not "sid-schl-eye-fuh".

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by 404KF2
I know what you mean about Spanish-speakers butchering foreign names.

I'm sure you do.

And I'm sure that you have the necessary imagination to place yourself, or anybody, in the inverse situation...

Actually I have to reckon that if something calls my attention is not the dubious and creative pronounciation that some of my compatriotes do have in foreign languages (that is a fact) but the absolute lack of effort that the non Spanish-speakers make to try to learn the couple of native words that might make their life easier, to say the least.

Whilst one might reasonably expect that any employee of a petrol station in the south of Spain should be able to approach any tourist in his/her own language to explain which is the best route to, or the best restaurant near, to expect a dealer in Alarcón, my friend, to understand your "Doh-feen"...

BTW, I would very much like to hear your own version of "Juan Pablo Montoya" for example, or of "Pedro Martinez de la Rosa"...

I am sure you'll feel closer to your Alarcón dealer

Un abrazo

Felix

[FEV]

Darren,

In german a simple U is pronounced "oo", but when you find
a "¨" (double point on the u) it becomes a "u" as with
pronounce it in french and that the biggest penguin on earth
describes as a long yyyyy (you're right penguin, this is in fact
the closest thing you can find in english).

Felix I agree with you. When you talk about foreigners too lazy
too try and learn a few native words, french guys must be
among the worst. Best exemple I know is Jacques Laffite (who
tries do to the Grand Prix commentaries on french national TV).
One time out of two he calls JPM.... JEAN (like Alési)-Pablo
Montoya:lol: He probably doesn't know how to say Juan (rooan
isn't it?) so prefers to translate it in french!! This guy
gets more ridiculous every day. He was a good driver but is
the worst F1 TV "journalist" we have ever had in France (and
we've had some real bad ones before).

Another controversy on names in France is about Michael
Schumacher. Some say Michael like in english, some MIKA-L like
in french and others Misha-L. I thought the last one was the
real german way of saying it, but on RTL TV some german
journalists call him Michael (english way). Can anyone sort it
out?

FEV

[Darren Galpin]

FEV - Michael should be "Mik-aye-el" in German.

[404KF2]

Originally posted by Felix Muelas

Actually I have to reckon that if something calls my attention is not the dubious and creative pronounciation that some of my compatriotes do have in foreign languages (that is a fact) but the absolute lack of effort that the non Spanish-speakers make to try to learn the couple of native words that might make their life easier, to say the least.
Felix

No problemo, Felix. Puedo hablar Espanol!

[30ft penguin]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
FEV - Michael should be "Mik-aye-el" in German.

Hm, "Mik-aye-el" would be a person written like "Mikael". The usual German "Michael" has yet another of the sounds not existing in English language, the "ch". Scottish persons would know the sound, though - it's nearly the same as the "ch" in "Loch Ness". If you want to try producing the sound in a funny way, my dictionary states that

an approximation to this sound may be acquired by assuming the mouth-configuration for "i" and emitting a strong current of breath

Don't try this with a mouth full of coffee, though

Darren:

You're right, "myth" is pronounced "mith". I just could not think of a real English example for "ü". But my trusty dictionary can help:

"ü" is almost like the French "u" as in "sur". It may be acquired by saying "i" through fairly closely rounded lips

Now go and practice

[Darren Galpin]

Now of course that ch sound depends on whether you are a Swabian from Stuttgart, a Bayern from Munich or a Hamburger from Hamburg. The ch sound varies from sh to k depending on which one of those you choose......

Or whether you are speaking via a 2 foot beak on a 30 ft antarctic based feathered avian......

[30ft penguin]

Well, we penguins near Stuttgart here do not tend to (mis-)pronounce it either as sh or as k, but more like the real "ch". But you're right, it depends on the dialect. Bavarians are a strange bunch, for example

[pancho]

this is doing my head in! And while we're on the subject of mispronunciatons, why does Simon Taylor always insist on calling Alain Prost 'Alain Proast'? (Sorry Simon, nothing personal old chap)

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by pancho
why does Simon Taylor always insist on calling Alain Prost 'Alain Proast'?

Be glad that he is not calling him "Alain Prooo" as a certain Finnish sports reporter used to pronounce it!

[Barry Lake]

I have always thought the best way to learn pronunciation of a name is to ask the owner of the name. But it isn't easy. At the Australian GP this year I asked Barrichello how he pronounced it.

He told me two ways, in Italian - as it is originally Italian, and in Portuguese. I can't repeat either accurately, especially the latter.
But the main point I was after was the "ch" part of it.
Both ways he pronounced it "k" not "ch" as in "chew". and I asked him this bit specifically. He repeated, "It is 'k'".

At the Catalunya Rally, I tried to find Freddy Loix. I thought TV commentators calling him "Loyks" were being ridiculous.
I couldn't find the man himself, but asked several members of his team. They all said "Loyks". I asked how it would be pronounced in France, by a Frenchman to another Frenchman. They all said "Loyks".
Still doesn't sound French to me.
Can anyone (preferably French) elaborate on this?

And could someone please ask the elder Schumacher brother to explain the pronunciation of his first name? We don't seem to be reaching a conclusion here.

[prettyface]

The words of my english teacher are resonating in my ears... When I asked her about certain ambiguous pronunciations she shrugged and said something along the lines of "If you weren't born in the specific country, then you can pronounce it any way you please while you point them the word in your travel dictionary"

[prettyface]

Er... Two more...
How the hell do you pronounce "Eoin" as in Eoin Young?
And "Amon"?

And BTW, thanks for the previous responses and extra examples. Now I won't go through life saying "Eeeew Roosh" (Eau Rouge!)

[Bernd]

Amon = Eh-Men

Keir will kill me if he disagrees

I may be wrong but I think Eoin is just a fancy way to spell Ian

[Kpy]

Originally posted by Barry Lake

Can anyone (preferably French) elaborate on this?

I'm not French, but English. I've lived in France for some years, speak French and teach English to French businessmen.
All I can say is that OIX in French is pronounced OYKS, OÏX would be OH - IX (as in Ickx). The ¨separates the vowells - so Moët (the Champagne) is MO-WET, not MO-WAY.
The CH sound in Italian is spelt CC, and the K sound spelt CH.

Hope this helps, but as I tell my pupils when the ask me "why?" - because it is. I could go on about French place names, but it would get boring.

[Vitesse2]

I'll get in before Keir does ...

It's Eh-mon, with a slight emphasis on the first syllable.

And Eoin is a variant spelling (Scots Gaelic I think) of Ian,which is the Scottish version of the name John, Jean or Jan ...

[BRG]

Originally posted by FEV
there are a few english ones I've never been too sure
about:

Hesketh. Do you say hesskiss? hessketch? hisskiss?
Thruxton? sruxton or truxton?
Gilbey: Gilbi, Gilbay or even Djilbi?
Ecclestone? Ecclestone or "give me the money, man"?

I don't think any of these are particularly tricky. As far as I know, Hesketh is pronounced more or less as spelt ie HESS (as in hessian) K (as in key) ETH (as in ethanol) - I know that some of the British upper classes have odd pronounciations for their names, but I don't believe the good Alex's family is one of those. Thruxton is THR (as in throw)UX (as in crux)T (as in time) ON (as in on). I thought Gilbey was just that (it is when I buy Gilbey's Gin) that is GIL (as in a fish's gill) BEY (as in bee). But I stand to be corrected on any of these.

And Ecclestone is pronounced "nasty, stunted, grasping little b*****d", so you were spot on there.

About Freddie Loix, it would be better to ask a Belgian rather than French person. He is from the French-speaking part of Belgium, but Belgian French (or Walloon) is a definite dialect, heavily influenced by thier Flemish (Dutch-speaking) compatriots. I believe that it is correctly pronounced LOYKS. The mystery is why Mitsubishi continue to employ him - perhaps when they say "Mr Loix, you're too slow, you're fired", they mispronounce his name and he thinks they are talking to someone else...

[Barry Lake]

Kpy

Thanks for the explanation of both Loix and Moet (sorry, no accent).

I knew how Moet was pronounced, but didn't understand why.

A bunch of motoring journalists were in the French champagne district in the 1980s, arguing whether it was "Mo-way", or "Mowee".

I said I had been told it was "Mo-wet" - at which they all burst into laughter and jeers, as is their wont.

So the next day I and one other were driving through the vineyards and I saw the Moet et Chandon plaques on fence posts. I stopped and asked the people working there how they pronounced it. "Mo-wet" they said, and I have said it that way ever since - receiving many looks of disapproval for my efforts.

[Barry Lake]

So, how should we say "Cisitalia"?

[Darren Galpin]

I always thought "sih-see-ta-leeya".

[David McKinney]

Colser to cheesy-tallya, I would have thought

[FEV]

Thanks BRG

I understand Hesketh or Thruxton don't seem tricky ones to you but I can tell you that I've heard several french ways of saying it!
As a french I was surprised that non-french people could say Proast or even Prooo for Prost since it seems quite a simple name to say for me...

About Freddy Loix I wouldn't be so definitive as KPY. Because in french words ending with an X do not always sound KS. For instance, there's town called Foix and you say "phwa". If there had been a double point "¨" on the I of Loix you would say LO-YKS. But since there isn't, I guess the best thing to do would be to ask him. And I guess it won't be too long before the poor guy has a lot of free time to answer questions like this!!

Same thing for words ending with a Z. Take the well known belgian all-rounder Marc Duez. His name must be said "dué" and not "dioowez".

A few other tricky ones (to me): - Brynfan Tyddyn
- Pukekohe
- Montjuich (help Felix !)
- Opatija (any yougoslavian in the house ??)

[BRG]

Originally posted by FEV
Take the well known belgian all-rounder Marc Duez. His name must be said "dué" and not "dioowez".

A few other tricky ones (to me): - Brynfan Tyddyn
- Pukekohe
- Montjuich (help Felix !)
- Opatija (any yougoslavian in the house ??)

I can speak authoratively about Marc Duez, as I knew him personally when he was first starting out - and you are absolutely correct FEV, his name is pronounced "dué" with a silent z.

But your new ones are really tricky - I think "Brynfan" is BRIN (as in chin) and FAN (as in fan), but the Welsh may lengthen the "a" sound a little, so it might be more like FAHN. However, the Welsh have different phonetic values for letters and syllables than those of us using Latin-based languages, so exactly how "Tyddyn" is pronounced properly, I don't know. Any Welsh speakers out there? Croeso i TNF

I shall leave others to try Pukekohe, Montjuich and Opatija!

But maybe FEV could tell me how the town of Montrueil (near Boulogne) should be pronounced? It is a real killer to English speakers!

[David McKinney]

Pukekohe:
The Maori language, from which the name comes, is a phonetic one, with all syllables stressed equally. The vowel sounds are probably as close to Italian as anything: so you have pu-ke-ko-he. All short vowel sounds, incidentally.
Most non-Maori New Zealanders would corrupt it to something like 'pookee-koh-ey' or 'pooka-koe-ey' with the stress on the third syllable. (First two syllables to rhyme with nookie or hooker, third with go, fourth with see)

[Barry Boor]

Welsh - very difficult. Ask Roger and kpy!

Anyway, Brynfan Tyddyn; In Welsh 'Y' is a vowel with a sound somewhere between the 'I' in IN and the 'E' in HER. The 'F' is pronounced always as a 'V'. the 'DD', which is a letter in the welsh alphabet is one of the ones that fools most foreigners. You have the say it as though you are saying the 'TH' in THE. It is a soft TH not as in THING.

So we have BRIN-VAN TITH-IN. BUT, how on earth does such a name get onto a race circuit in Pensylvania?

BTW, I am a Cockney Englishman - and a very poor Welsh language learner, but I try, I try!

[FEV]

Thanks for the help guys.

BRG, Montreuil is a real real tricky one! The EUIL sound in french
is a sound for which I cannot find anything that comes close in
english. I'm thinking about it since you asked but still haven't
found any simple way to explain!

[Patrick Italiano]

About Freddie Loix, it would be better to ask a Belgian rather than French person. He is from the French-speaking part of
Belgium, but Belgian French (or Walloon) is a definite dialect, heavily influenced by thier Flemish (Dutch-speaking)
compatriots. I believe that it is correctly pronounced LOYKS. The mystery is why Mitsubishi continue to employ him -
perhaps when they say "Mr Loix, you're too slow, you're fired", they mispronounce his name and he thinks they are talking
to someone else...

Sorry BRG, I have to correct some of your statement about french-speaking belgians (I'm one of them despite my name )

Walloon is indeed a dialect, and if I write you anything in walloon I'm 100 % sure no french-speaking member will understand anything). The walloon isn't influenced by flemish at all. But that dialect is nowaday spoken only by very few people, mainly elderly.
There are 3.5 million people in Belgium who just speak french, sometimes "better" than the french themselves. We use a few words that aren't used in France, and we have some different pronounciations.

A french from France ;) would pronounce LWA, in Belgium you can hear either LWA or LWA-X.

BTW, while not being a Loix fan, I have to add that the latest tests of the Mitsubishi seemed to proove that Makinen's setups are unsuitable to other pilots, and Loix has recently improved his performance when allowed to develop adequate setups for his driving style.

"C'est todi les p'tits qu'on spratche"

[pancho]

One that's always stumped me is the circuit of Brno in the Czech republic.
One guy I know who's raced there pronounces it as 'Benno', but I'm not convinced...

[BRG]

Originally posted by Patrick Italiano
(I'm one of them despite my name )

I am not about to get into an argument with a native of Belgium (especially a university man!) so I of course defer to your knowledge!

I tend to visit Flandres more than Wallonie. I even tried to learn some Dutch but I found it a really hard language to pronounce. But I did learn that Flemish is beset with a myriad of local dialects and some, particularly those spoken nearer to France, seem to have a lot of French influence (not that Flemish nationalists would be keen to admit to that).

As to Loix, I agree that being No 2 to Makinen is a bit like being No 2 to Schumacher. Nevertheless, Burns did well enough in that seat to move onto to the top. Freddie just doesn't seem to be making any progress, even on tarmac events where a Belgian driver should shine. I can't help thinking that he has reached his peak and just isn't going to make it to the very top level. It is a shame - Belgium has produced some excellent drivers (Duez, Snijers, Thiry) who have never quite had the opportunity to break through. Given that Belgium probably ranks only after Finland for rally-enthusiasm, it is a pity that there isn't a Belgian driver winning events in the WRC.

FEV - re Montreuil, sorry to ask such a tough one!!

[FEV]

BRG, I'm working on it. It's a great challenge, I shall make it.

Pancho, I've always wondered about Brno too. Maybe Martin or
Roman Krejci could help if they read this. By the way, visiting
Roman's site you'll find another dozen of small czech tracks
even harder to say:lol:

[Wolf]

FEV- I was recently confronted with the questions about pronounciation of the names Opatija, Rijeka and Grobnik, so it's about time I try to come up with some answers... Please refrain, as much as possible, from use of 'Y word'. I'm sure it interests noone here, but- although such term as 'yugoslavian' existed, bear in mind that it was used for people who renounced their nationality and God (literally, on both accounts) to become better members of Communist Party. All three places are in Croatia and have always been, except for Opatija which was restituted to Italy between two Great Wars (and hence, the only GP held on Opatija track was,a las, in Italy).

Opatija- ó(as in omen [óumen]) pa (as in pa [pa:], only shorter vowel) ti (as in tip) ya (as in yard [ya:d], only shorter vowel, no silent r); Italian name: Abazzia (zz=c)

Rijeka- Riy (as in Riyad) e (as in yes) ka (k as in chameleon, and a a short version of [a:]); note al 'R's in Croatian are 'rolling', which should provide enough trouble for our English and German speaking members- for Spanish speaking people, like in de la Rosa; Italian name: Fiume (meaning River, both names mean that)

Grobnik- g (as in go, or like italian gh in Ghia and Lamborghini; NB- nothing to do with [dz]) rob (like in Rob Walker, only with rolling r; like the Italian Roberto) nik (as in nick or Nick)


As for German vowels, I'll have a go at them too.

ü- put lips together as if to whistle, only not sooo tight (or put your lips as if you were to say u as in do [du:]) and pronounce an [i:] (as in leech [li:tƒ]); the outcome should be vowel sounding both as aforementioned u and i; it is sometimes spelled 'ue' when proper character is unavailable

ä- try to pronounce [a:] (like in car [ca:]) and pronounce [e:] (like in end, only longer); the outcome should be vowel sounding both as aforementioned a and e; hence it is sometimes spelled 'ae' when proper character is unavailable

ö- try to pronounce [o:] (like in door [do:]) and pronounce [e:] (like in end, only longer); the outcome should be vowel sounding both as aforementioned o and e; hence it is sometimes spelled 'oe' when proper character is unavailable

Südschleife should hence be [Zü:Dƒlaife] where [leif] is as in life, only [ei] is a tad less stressed.

As for Michael Schumacher ch=[ç] (different from English sh=sch in German=[ƒ]), which is an h with a hollow-hissing ring to it.

Pancho- it is Brrrno (with rolling r).

[FEV]

Wolf,
Thanks for the info and the great and clear german lesson. Sorry
about the Yxxxvian thing. Didn't mean to offense anybody, I just
write too fast, often not letting my small brain enough time to
think about the things I write (and I write slowly ).

By the way, except for the 1939 Beograd Grand Prix and the
Euro Touring Car races in the late 60s and early 70s I don't know
much about motorsport history in former Yugoslavia. Croatia
having the most internationally knowed tracks I guess it must
have been the center of the yugoslavian motorsport scene.
Were there regular championships in the 50s, 60s and 70s?
The FIM Road Racing Champoinship made an yearly visit to
Rijeka / Opatija untill the early 90s, so does it meen that
motorcycling was much more popular than car racing since ?

FEV

[Carlos Jalife]

Well, I have to side with my fellow spanish speakers about the pronunciation of some of our drivers, and worse even, the way the write the names. For some reason halfo the english worls thinks Pedro and ricardo are RODRIQUEZ qith a Q not a G, and they write it like that in books and magazines all over. Not funny at all, and then they pronounce it Rod-dree-wess when it should be closer to Ro(as in row)-Dri(as in Drill)-Guess. Now how do you pronounce Barrichello, as italian (kelo) or as brasilian (cello)? That war has been going on for years among the mexican commentators of the two different chains that give us the Grans prixes. And Gugelmin is Gooyellmeen or Googuelmeen? People are constantly shot about that one in Curitiba:p ;) and wwhata about Fangio. If you are from an italian argentinian family it is FanYeeO but if you are from a spanis argentinian family it is FanHeeO. And since each is about 40% of the population, they too discuss it.

[FLB]

Wasn't Fangio's family actually of Italian descent (his grandfather)?

In which case, it's FAn-jo...

[David McKinney]

Fangio's parents were immigrants from Italy.
I would agree that fan-jo would be the correct Italian pronunciation (that's the English 'j'), but Argentinians - and the rest of the world - seemed to prefer fan-jio
Carlos: there was discussion elsewhere on TNF about Barrichello: someone asked whether he used the Italian or Portuguese pronunciation and he said "either". Very helpful!

[Gil Bouffard]

Boy guys,

This was really interesting.... I remember someone telling me that German is the only language where you can spit on your opponent and get away with it.

Easy things to remember in German (whether you are a Baden Wurttemberger* oder Bayer. *No umlaut on the Ami computer), "I before E" is pronounced "EEE." "E before I" is pronounced "Eye."

Drag racer Kenny Bernstein is mis-pronounced "Burn-steen."

American Football commentator Joe Thiesman, is mis-pronounced "Th-eyez-man."

I never noticed the umlaut in sudschleife, nor do I remember one in sudkurve (also sudkehre SP).

I once heard a movie actor playing the part of an Air Force Colonel ask if RamSteen (spelled, Ramstein) had been notified.

Pierre Levegh to us of Franco-Canadian extraction is "Pierre La Vek."

Zheel Booffar

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Carlos: there was discussion elsewhere on TNF about Barrichello: someone asked whether he used the Italian or Portuguese pronunciation and he said "either". Very helpful!

David

I spoke to Barrichello at the Australian GP earlier this year and asked him specifically to tell me how to pronounce his name. He told me, "in Italian, it is '...' and in Portuguese it is '...'"

I couldn't say it either way without practice. But the point I was trying to clarify was whether the "ch" is pronounced "k" or "ch" - that's the English "ch" as in "chewing gum".

I asked this point specifically and he said that, in both languages, it is pronounced "k", or a version thereof. Definitely NOT "ch".

As for the "Barri" part of it, I think you'd have to be an expert at either language to say it. The "ello" sounded like "ello" to me.

The closest approximation I can give, for an English speaking person, is "Barra kello". Definitely NOT "Barra chello".

[deangelis86]

Does anyone else recall Murray Walker's sudden overnight decision to start prounouncing Ayrton Senna as "Aiii-iierrr-ton" Senna??

- And then decide to go back to calling him "Ayrton" Senna after all!

Strange man.....

[BRG]

Originally posted by Carlos Jalife
For some reason halfo the english worls thinks Pedro and ricardo are RODRIQUEZ qith a Q not a G, and they write it like that in books and magazines all over. Not funny at all, and then they pronounce it Rod-dree-wess when it should be closer to Ro(as in row)-Dri(as in Drill)-Guess.

I am puzzled by this comment, Carlos. I have never seen Rodriguez spelt with a Q or heard it pronounced like that, certainly not in the UK. Is this a US thing, I wonder?

Personally, I always pronounced it ROD-DREE-GUESS - nearly the same as you suggest except for a longer i sound in the middle. Perhaps it depends on where the person called Rodriguez comes from - I tend to have contact mostly with people from Peru and Bolivia and they pronounce words differently to Mexicans or to most Spaniards.

saludos!

[Gil Bouffard]

Mispronounciations are only part of the problem.

I recently saw the "Gurney Flap," or "Wicker Bill," (which I really don't understand) called a "Gurnee," flap in an article on Indy cars.

We still see Sterling Moss, Mike Hawthorne and Juan Manual Fangio, today. Also, Farrari and Tony Vanderwall.

Just last night, while watching the American television show "60 Minutes II," I heard the announcer say. "If you'd like to learn about famous Irish-Americans, from John Kennedy to Martin Sheen, visit our website...."

MARTIN SHEEN!?! MARTIN SHEEN, the actor!?! IRISH!?! If so, how come one of his son's kept the family name and is listed as Emilio Estevez? Sounds real IRISH to me!

I realize the we have Scots Dario Franchitti and Irishman Dino Morelli.

But an Irish-American named Estevez?

Gil

[BRG]

Gil

Your post reminds of the wife of a friend of mine, who only came into contact with motor-sporting matters after meeting him. She overheard much learned talk about technical things, but she never saw any of it written down - so she sort of interpreted it her way.

During a rally, we were stunned when she remarked, as an Escort Cosworth rushed past "Hey, you can really hear the waistcoat" (BTW that's a vest to you N. Americans) - after some confusion, we realised that she meant the turbo waste-gate. She also referred to Hancock tyres which we eventually discovered meant hand-cut tyres (although she got her own back when Hankook tyres went on sale in Britain).

If you never see the word "wickerbill" written down, you can only spell it phonetically - I don't know now if I have spelt it right (anyone??) as it is not a term regularly used in Britain. But I agree that there is a lot of sloppiness about spelling and we owe it to our sproting heroes to try to at least get their names right!

[Kpy]

Originally posted by BRG
But I agree that there is a lot of sloppiness about spelling and we owe it to our sproting heroes to try to at least get their names right!

Too right BRG, but give us a sproting chance !

Sorry, couldn't resist it.