34 replies to this topic

[rock]

Lets stop this constant bashing of JPM. If his boss thinks he needs time, who the hell are we put deadlines on him (as a lot of you guys have been doing just recently) after few mistakes he did.

From www.autorace.com

Reports after the Canadian GP stated that the Williams team has informed Juan Pablo Montoya that they will not tolerate any repeat performances of his antics at the Canadian GP where FIA race director Charlie Whiting had to separate Montoya from BAR driver, Jacques Villeneuve.

Despite their obvious non-approval of his conduct, Frank Williams defended Montoya's antics when he said: "Juan has arrived with a certain amount of hype that he must deal with. He's got no problems with any of the drivers except Jacques, who he's had a couple of spats with. But he can be a little hot-blooded. He's working on that."

He added: "But he's working very hard, he's very fast and the team likes him. Perhaps the hardest thing for him is understanding how to get the very best from his car and his team. It's just going to take a little time."

[RedFever]

"He's got no problems with any of the drivers except Jacques"

oh yeah, and instead he LOVES Ralf Schumacher the Mentally Weak and he loves Michael Nothing Special Schumacher........

[Pets22]

I agree with your take on Montoya - he has tremendous potential but has yet to get it together. The early talk about him blowing Ralf out of the water was premature, the media gave him a big hype and Brazil didn't help - however he will get there but must be allowed to develop ... and when he does watch out

[312 PB]

you don't need to love anybody you're trying to beat, and if the "mentally weak" comment is troubling you should try to understand why

[Bruce]

I agree - Frank Williams is a very intelligent man and does not suffer fools gladly. If He has no faith in JPM, JPM would be gone already...

I once read a comment that both Patrick Head and Frank Williams would run over their own mothers if they thought that it would translate into a half second on the track... or perhaps it was that if FW were down to his last £100 he'd spend it on making the car faster... either way, it it testimony to his commitment and argues that if he thought JPM were a dead loss that, contract or no, JPM would be gone.

[Todd]

Originally posted by RedFever
"He's got no problems with any of the drivers except Jacques"

oh yeah, and instead he LOVES Ralf Schumacher the Mentally Weak and he loves Michael Nothing Special Schumacher........

There is a difference between loving his competitors and situations like he has with Jacques, where JV has been trying to ruin his qualifying sessions since at least Spain. I suspect that this is the sort of problem that FW cares about. Rivalry good. Fisticuffs and brake checks bad.

[Rene]

I have been fairly hard on JPM over the last couple of races...but I do think he deserves the rest of the season to show both the fans and more importantly Williams that he is ready for the challenge of F1....it looks like Williams will stand by him for the rest of the season, I hope that JPM takes advantage of his chances....because he will b compared to the new Alain Prost...aka...Ralph Schumacher...

[titrisol]

Frank W. is a very smart guy, also a non-tolerant to mistakes and a results-driven guy.
Can't blame him for not having any patience with rookies.

[Singing in the rain]

Imagine what a succesful year JPM might have had, if he only could have handled media a la' Mika: -"... ...!"

[Scudetto]

Personally, I think JPM's worst trait right now is not his bonzai driving style - that'll improve with time (just remember how nuts RS looked in his first 18 months w/Jordan as evidence of that) - but rather is mouth.

If he had just turned a deaf ear to all the pre-season hype, kept his head down and drove his own races, I don't think his current debacle would be as damning. Instead, he came in with this "F-everybody" attitude. I think he'd be better off if he had just played his cards a little differently.

[Damop]

I loved this snippet:

"I would remind you about Mika Hakkinen who spent two years when he was at McLaren when if there was an accident he would find it. Just look at him now."



JPM will deliver on his potential. I would like to know how all the people who are cutting up Montoya would feel if mobs cried for their dismissal every time they ****ed up on the job....

[GasPed]

Originally posted by Todd


There is a difference between loving his competitors and situations like he has with Jacques, where JV has been trying to ruin his qualifying sessions since at least Spain.

This is an interesting take, Todd - one that is completely the opposite of most people's (i.e. JV and many others on the grid have claimed JPM has been trying to ruin their sessions, while no one (not even JPM) has claimed JV has been trying to ruin their sessions). I wonder if your claim is based on:
a) Your unique observations of qual sessions, that no one else shares, or;
b) Your unique access to information from the F1 paddock that no one else shares, or;
c) Your unique cerebral deficit that no one else shares, or:
d) All of the above.

One thing I'll give you - you're very unique!

Gas

[Todd]

Gasped,

I didn't even notice it myself. I read about it in F1-Racing magazine, in an article about JPM. Feel free to go to such great lengths any time you want to look like an idiot by disagreeing with me though.

[Billy]

Originally posted by GasPed
no one (not even JPM) has claimed JV has been trying to ruin their sessions).

Raikkonen in Austria

My first run was good, but on the second Villeneuve blocked me. I really don't know why. He let a Minardi go by, then it looked as though he had seen me but then he speeded up again and ruined my lap.

[pa]

I don't really understand where all this animosity has sprung from. I remember seeing pics of JV and JPM hanging out together earlier in the season.

[Billy]

Originally posted by pa
I remember seeing pics of JV and JPM hanging out together earlier in the season.

such as the "pair of midgets" picture in the thread JPM is JV's new best friend?

[Harald]

I am actually a little encouraged by this quote of Sir Frank's.

I frankly doubt that Montoya can do much about his driving style, any more than Niki could. (And Juancho reminds me more of Niki than anyone else.)

I agree that Juan Pablo was out of order during his confrontation with Jacques. But, bottom line, I doubt that there would have been anything like this much electronic ink devoted to that incident if, say, Juan had stayed out in front of - or even just kept up with - Michael at either Austria or Brazil. Never mind what people would be saying about him had he finished ahead of Sorcerer I in both those races.

But, hey, that's fine: racing is inherently a fickle sport. It always has been a matter of 'What have you done for me lately'. And 'lately' in F1 has always been defined as 'in the last two weeks.' (Three if we're in August.)

Juan is probably finding himself ahead of time on a couple of learning curves and closer to the back end in a couple of areas - such as high speed corners and cornering exit techniques in general - that he may have naïvely assumed he wouldn't have as much trouble with.

I really do doubt, though, that he can become (remain? develop the consistency to become?) truly competitive in F1 if he dickers too much with his basic approach to cornering. (I am obviously in the Michael-Senna School that says an F1 circuit is a series of incidental straights connected by all-important corners.)

Since Juan doesn't know many of the tracks he is on, he is probably caught in an almost automatic dilemma each Friday between cruising the circuit and finding out where the downshift trees are (to use Jackie Stewart's term); or guessing at a set-up and running out to find out how hard the ArmCo barriers really are.

This, remember, was the first, well, 'issue' that hit the headlines about Montoya's settling-in period with Sir Frank and St Patrick: as early as Brazil they were fussing at him for playing around with set-ups, especially on Fridays, that were obviously too 'loose' to keep the car in the same province as the circuit, never mind on the circuit itself.

(One of the Spanish-language websites had a fascinating interview he gave where he described the first time he had this particular run-in with Patrick Head. Said it reminded him of his first half season with Chip Ganassi over here, almost down to the same word-for-word exchanges he had. Obviously Patrick won the argument: it is his car.)

But, since the first one-third or so of each turn in F1 today is the crucial sector of that turn, Juan will have to either get better at consistently 'bending' the car to fit that sector, or he'll have to go back to his laptop and PlayStation and figure a better 'throw angle' to get his car to the acceleration point he needs to get good lap times.

There are some superficial similarities between Juan's approach - literally and attitudinally - to corners, especially 'horsepower' turns, and Michael's. But, even during his rookie season, Michael was far better at using the brakes and throttle to balance the car just before power-on. When the cameras show Juancho, he clearly is not yet anywhere near as consistent as he will have to become at balancing the car set-up just before power-on. Translated, this seems to be what put him into the tires at Monaco.

And, unfortunately for us Montoyeros, that will probably happen a couple of more times. (Look for Hungary to be a pig's breakfast.)

But, again: I am glad Frank - at least publicly - is willing to suspend his report card entries for the time being. Although, that said, I do recall that - about at this point in the season - Sir Frank and St Pat were making similar noises about Zanardi.

So, just as emotional insurance, I catch myself wondering if the McLaren-Jaguar settlement put enough extra cash in Bobby Rahal's line of credit to cover a luncheon date at Grove. . .

After all, after reviewing my old stills and Super-8 footage of the Austrian Punk at Watkins Glen, I really am struck by how much he should understand some of the breaking-in problems of the Colombian Punk. . .

The Mourning Anchor
Montoya Racing Employment Services - N. American Branch

[Billy]

Originally posted by GasPed
no one (not even JPM) has claimed JV has been trying to ruin their sessions).

Eddie Irvine in Malaysia

I didn't really get a good clean lap today, Jacques Villeneuve held me up during my final run as I was coming into the last corner. I thought he was on a flying lap but instead he held me up and then dived into the pits. A man of his experience should know better ...

[Winegod]

JPM will win races!
JPM will win the championship!
JPM will go down in history as a great driver!
JPM will do all of this when he returns to CART!

[AD]

Also don't forget one of the most blatent blocks on anyone in qualifying ever, when JV blocked DC in Brazil.

JPM will deliver and I expect him to win a race or two this year yet.

[Smooth]

I think JV's biggest beef with JPM is the fact that Montoya will win a race before JV wins another. Probably several. Both of them continue to act like they are 10 year olds. JPM being a bit worse, but JV should no better as well.

Me thinks JPM continues to try to forge an image, and JV continues to grow more frustrated.


but come on, those two little five foot tall puppets in a cage match? I would pay to see that.....

[GasPed]

Originally posted by Todd
Gasped,

I didn't even notice it myself. I read about it in F1-Racing magazine, in an article about JPM. Feel free to go to such great lengths any time you want to look like an idiot by disagreeing with me though.

Todd, at least we agree about one thing - I do have to go to great lengths to look like an idiot: you, on the other hand, merely have to click "Submit"

Do you honestly think the Windsor article on Spain in F1-Racing (while not without its charms) is anything more than fabricated half-truth laissez-fiction? I doubt he even talked to JPM in making up his piece. I repeat, no one (outside of perhaps Peter Windsor) has claimed that JV intentionally tries to ruin others' qualifying sessions. And, even if JV did try in Spain, it was because JPM blocked him first (as even this article points out)!

Originally posted by GasPed

no one (not even JPM) has claimed JV has been trying to ruin their sessions).

Billy, I'll make you a deal: I will try real hard to explain my statement above, if you will try real hard to understand it.

In F1 qualifying, unintentional blocking occurs all the time. Countless fast laps are ruined by the driver ahead not realizing someone on a hot lap is behind him and getting out of the way. Virtually every driver has the same story, every week, and it's just a fact of life. The two quotes you brought up are just examples of this. In fact, on your Irvine quote, JV actually went to him afterwards and apologized for getting in his way.

The accusation brought against JPM by EI, JV, MS and others is that he consistently blocks others on their hot laps, and the implication is that he is either incompetent, or he is deliberately doing this. This accusation of a consistent pattern of blocking is not the same as a one-off "He blocked me" statement. There - is that clear?

Now back to the topic at hand, JPM is a hard racer with a big attitude. He has talent but he needs to temper it with some hard work and sportmanship. If he does this, I think he has a chance to stick with Sir Frank for a while - Williams/Head love racers and Montoya is most certainly that.

Gas

[Jackdaw]

The one good thing about events in Canada is that it has reduced the Montoya bandwagon to a manageable size

I still think (like Sir Frank apparently ;) ) that JPM is a talented racer and will show results before the season is out.

[juanftoro]

The accusation brought against JPM by EI, JV, MS and others is that he consistently blocks others on their hot laps, and the implication is that he is either incompetent, or he is deliberately doing this. This accusation of a consistent pattern of blocking is not the same as a one-off "He blocked me" statement. There - is that clear?

Yeah, Sure. Clear as water....

[JL Wade]

Originally posted by pa
I don't really understand where all this animosity has sprung from. I remember seeing pics of JV and JPM hanging out together earlier in the season.

Funny thing is that "we" on this board probably attribute more importance to thier confrontation than "they" themselves!

Why? I speculate: I think when you drive an F1 car for a living, there are many things that are of a higher priority than a guy trying to choke you! So...they probably don't worry about it much - if at all.

Peace.

[Locai]

>Frank Williams's more intelligent than most of us.

Yeah, like that's an accomplishment?

[ebe]

Didn't Frank say something similiar about Zanardi .......

[selena]

I always think that he has the skill, talent and speed to be a very good driver. But if he does not start being calm and patient, he will not be getting anywhere.

[Gudrun]

Originally posted by Pets22
I agree with your take on Montoya - he has tremendous potential but has yet to get it together. The early talk about him blowing Ralf out of the water was premature, the media gave him a big hype and Brazil didn't help - however he will get there but must be allowed to develop ... and when he does watch out

Went to Whitehorese three weeks ago.
I bought the F1 RACING magacine.
"THE GOLDEN BOY"
Passing MSch once does not make him a champion.
Could he be the next "ZINARDI" ??????

[skylark68]

No problems with any one other than Jacques.

Bull.

I wonder if there is one driver who agrres with JPM, or likes him. Do you think Jacques' buddies like him?

Does any driver not think that JPM's comments are the mark of a desperate man, looking over his shoulder, comparing his pitiful rookie year in a fairly competitive Williams with the rookie year of Jacques. Ha.

As for Sir Frank, lets analyze who he has defended at one time or another in recent memory:

Damon Hill
Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Alex Zanardi
Jenson Button

Where are they? Are they at Williams? And the funny thing is, Sir Frank LIKED Button, and look where that got him.

No, don't be fooled by Sir Frank. If you want the take on JPM, look at what Gerhard Berger from BMW says. And Berger, right now, is not too impressed. JPM is jinxed and drivers like Berger know that jinxed drivers stay that way until a big change.

(By the way, the same can be said of Jacques. As good as he is, he is jinxed now. BAR and Honda are jinxed. BAR was jinxed when they brought that stupid double trailer to the pits, spending something like $2M on it alone and when they boasted about their first year. JINX.)

Only a change will break this jinx and JPM will be changed.

[911]

Originally posted by Locai
>Frank Williams's more intelligent than most of us.

Yeah, like that's an accomplishment?

Good one, Locai!!!

[Mrv]

Montoya's days at Williams are numbered.

[Todd]

I don't know about the verity of this, coming from a collection of sources that I am either not familiar with or that I know are shoddy. It is interesting anyway, provided you are balanced enough not to convict anyone on this questionable evidence.

From Formula1.com:
There was significant German Press speculation this weekend about the future of Canadian Grand Prix winner, Ralf Schumacher. Both "Bild am Sonntag" and "Der Spiegel" carried articles about the possibility of the young German joining McLaren.

The Schumacher brothers' manager, Willie Weber, recently spoke to RTL, the German TV channel about the renewal of Ralf's contract with Williams. His current contract expires at the end of 2002, and Weber spoke about a similar long term deal to that which his brother Michael has with Ferrari. The deal would run until at least the end of the 2004 season.

However, it would appear the main similarity in the deals is to be Ralf's wage. His current salary is thought to be DM 12-14 million ($6m). But Weber is allegedly insisting on a salary of more than DM 30m ($14m) a year. The manager has said he is willing to compromise financially for sporting success. Jaguar are also reported to be interested in Schumacher Junior, but they do not currently have a race winning car.

Ralf spoke to the "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" over the weekend and said "I want to drive in a team which is successful. But I admit that my financial requirements do not come far behind"

I think there are 3 interesting points:

1) It looks like Ralf wants to be the 3rd highest paid driver. That is in line with his skill, but not his achievements. Until he gets a title, 6 million seems fully priced to me.

2) Weber seems to want a reverse driver performance clause. If Ralf wins races and fights for titles, he doesn't need as much money. This is funny when you consider the contract Michael had in 1994. His retainer was about a million, but he got a meaningful amount for every point he scored. Considering Williams is a far better team than Benetton ever was, this seems like a sea change in contractual terms.

3) The last quote from Ralf makes him sound a bit shameless. Having a big brother that is half way to being a billionaire may be taking a toll on him. He needs his press guy, the one Ferrari made Michael let go, to tell him not to say anything that sounds like he is greedy. People will think he spent too much time with Jenson Button!

I didn't bother copying and pasting the remainder of this article, which had an even less credible piece about Ralf and Willy trying to leverage McLaren for their contract negotiation. It has already been denied by Norbert Haug, so I think it would be beating a dead horse.

[asterix]

can we all have a season in a williams to prove if we can beat ralph or not ?? ...;)

[leegle]

As a long time Williams fan I just want to see them both winning races and I think JPM can do it if the circumstances are right just like Ralf did the other week. Frank is no dill either and has made some surprisingly smart choices over the years even if I don't like the way he let Mansell go when he won the title.