55 replies to this topic

[Mosquito]

Not to bash NASCAR or the Late Dale Earnhardt, but will they ever stop this 'Lap 3' ritual?

It's getting a bit on my nerves. I have all respect for people who want to keep the memory of this famous driver high, but this special lap number 3 thing is getting quite melo-dramatic IMHO.

And, the irony of it is that the longer it lasts, the more it will become some sort of meaningless ritual.

Next to that: Is NASCAR the only series where they booooo the winning driver?

[Ricardo F1]

Quite right, just get on with driving round and round in circles.

[Loz]

OOOhhhhh!! I get it now. I just thought all those rednecks were ordering beers to settle in for the race.

Loz

[Bjorn]

Special lap 3 ritual?
Booing the winner?

I'm uninitiated, please explain

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Special lap 3 ritual?

Dale Earnhardt drove the number 3 car, so as some form of tribute they had a special 'Lap 3' ceremony to honor this great driver.
Hoever, it's now obviously becoming some sort of hollow habbit.

Booing the winner?

Jeff Gordon seems to get mostly booings when he wins in NASCAR. (Or even if he finishes I guess).
This began very early, and in the eyes of many NASCAR fans Godon didn't pay his dues when he came from the Busch Grand National to the Winston Cup and immediately was a star. And I think most people just have a huge dislike for the guy. This guy is one of the best NASCAR drivers. I once saw a documentary on him, and I was hugely impressed by his working attitude, dedication and how he always respects his fans and the people on his team.

And, for all those pathetic booing NASCAR fans who are taking their hat of during lap 3, I guess a lot of them had complete different issues in the past, here a random quote from the past:

As the NASCAR Winston Cup Series rolls into Darlington, S.C., for the most revered of its summer holiday weekends, one would have thought that Dale Earnhardt had shot the President.
With their voices and via e-mail, NASCAR fans have registered a resounding thumbs down for Earnhardt and the bump pass that sent race-leader Terry Labonte spinning and "The Intimidator'' into Victory Lane at Bristol (Tenn.) Motor Speedway on Saturday night.

And what was that strange sound raining down on Earnhardt as he exited his black-and-banged Chevy?

Boos? For the sport's second seven-time Winston Cup champion? For the driver who typically receives more cheers during pre-race introductions than any Cup driver, and more than Miss Winston? Boos for the anti-Jeff Gordon? For doing precisely what has made "Ironhead'' the richest driver in motorsports history -- and in the eyes of many -- its prototypical competitor?

I guess the ones now booing Gordon will be the same one who be all crying themselves puppy-eyes in the hypothetical event Gordon would die racing......

Yes, a few rotten apples is no reason to judge all, but there's a LOT of rotten apples in the NASCAR crowd IMO.

[FordFan]

I think Fox has said they will do the moment of silence thing on the third lap of every race this season.

So, settle in for plenty more.

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by FordFan
I think Fox has said they will do the moment of silence thing on the third lap of every race this season

Drama queens....

[TNSFH]

I like it! I wish the commentators would shut their yaps the entire race.

[George Bailey]

I think it's kind of cool to show respect for a dead legend every once in awhile. You know when it's coming, if you don't want to see lap three then that's a great time to go get another beer.


As for booing the winner, it is definitely an anti-Gordon thing, much like the big cheer in Canada when Ralf came out ahead of Michael. I didn't think most of those cheering were huge Ralf fans, they were just psyched to see someone other than MS (who doesn't seem to have a big following in Canada for some reason) lead the race.

[Mosquito]

George,

Booing a (winning) driver (and in Gordon's case continiously) is not my cup of tea. I find it pathetic.

I'm sure it has probably happened in F1 as well, but not that I can directly recall. Considering the very fierce rivalry between pro-Schumacher and pro-Hakkinen fans, I am still proud that most F1 fans still know that winners should be cheered at, not booed at, even if it's not their all time hero.

[Todd]

I think Fox only has 1 race left on their contract. Then, I think NBC and TNN will cover the rest of the season.

I don't have a problem with a moment of lap of silence for Dale. I don't think we can do enough in his honor. We should also start every day with 3 shots of Bourbon, paint every car black, and throw every third child in a volcano. That'd be a start.

[Ricardo F1]

Shame, I think Fox actually did a pretty good job this year - it'll be interesting to compare NBC . . . as for Dale, well, let it go and move on is what I say.

[Newtsche]

I caught the finish to the Bristol night race where Earnhardt hammered his way to a win. The announcers nearly panicked when they had to find an acceptable way to describe what had just happened, choking and sputtering the whole way. I was ROTFLMAO as Earnhardt exited his car to a stadium of boo's. Even then, the announcers were tripping all over themselves. Despite post race interviews where Labonte and others were more than a bit peeved, the prevailing attitude was "Yuk yuk...that's just good racin' at Bristol". Factor in the ongoing hatred for Jeff Gordon, and I have to wonder how some NASCAR fans can even find their way to the races. Gordon IMHO is the most talented American driver of the last couple generations and I still wish he could have found that open wheel ride when he was ripe for picking. As for the Earnhardt "lap of silence", what would you expect from Fox that opens race coverage with "The best drivers in the world"? You're supposed to watch the last three laps, not the first three, anyway...

[Lantern]

Mosquito,

If you listen you will hear quite a few boos for michael schumacher when he wins races at select tracks. Brazil comes to mind.


Pathetic....it sure is. But, if you watched Nascar for a long time you would know that Earnhardt used to be booed the same exact way(except the homosexual remarks) Gordon is today for winning too much. At one time was known to be the most hated man in Nascar.

[Mr. Salty]

I am soooooo going to regret this, but the problem with Gordon imho is that the average NASCAR fan doesn't see him as "one of us". He's not Southern (this is the part I hate bringing up because now you are all going to slag the South in general ;) ), he's not a beer drinking good 'ol boy, he has a lovely wife, he has a sqeaky clean image, and he rarely races overly aggressively, he is usually too smooth to need to bump people out of the way ala Earnhardt. (For the record, he HAS been known to do that at times, but it isn't his normal style.) Many also resent him because Gordon ushered in the new group of fans (self included) for the very reasons I listed. I despise the booing, but Gordon himself seems to take it in good stride. He was quoted this weekend saying something to the effect that the more they boo, the happier he is, because that means he is winning or finishing high. I wish the guy would leave NASCAR and try his hand in CART (no way) or the IRL even (YIKES!), but he is trapped in NASCAR by his own success. He'd take a massive pay cut to leave IMO.

The silence on Lap 3 is sort of hokey at this juncture, but it doesn't bother me. For starters, I can't remember the last time I watched a NASCAR race flag to flag, so I usually miss lap three anyway, and it is only one lap. Next season they will probably stop doing it, the broadcasters anyway. At least this weekend the NASCAR tanks are going to tackle a road course, those are usually fun races. There are always ten or so drivers that race to win, the other 33 cars are just hanging on, trying not to fly off the track.

[Mosquito]

Salty, if I understand you correct, Gordon is just not 'Redneck' enough?;)

And why do you wish he'd leave NASCAR? I think he's one of the few who still prove that also in NASCAR quallity STILL is a determining factor, even when driving around tanks.;)

[Dudley]

Dale Earnhardt drove the number 3 car, so as some form of tribute they had a special 'Lap 3' ceremony to honor this great driver.
Hoever, it's now obviously becoming some sort of hollow habbit.

Of course they don't do it on any other lap because none of the other people who've died recently in Nascar are important enough to care about.

Bunch of hippocrites.

[The Swerve]

It's funny to find this thread here - I just finished watching the tape delayed 1 hour highlights of the Michigan race that Eurosport offers us sometimes.

I was pretty taken with the excitement of the last 10 laps or so, but the booing at the end when Gordon won was pretty embarassing. I'm not a big NASCAR watcher but has this always been the case with him? Or did some incident trigger it?

The thing with lap 3 is a little bit naff too, but I guess it's just the way some people like to show their respect so I don't have a problem with it. If it continues into next season then I think it will just become a cheap gesture.

[Lantern]

Originally posted by Mr. Salty
Many also resent him because Gordon ushered in the new group of fans (self included) for the very reasons I listed.

You were ushered in because he wasn't Southern? That's sad. Do you just live in the South and hate it or are you from the South and hate it? Or...just against the perceived good 'Ol boy system?



Anyway, if being raised in Indiana doesn't make you Southern by nature then someone needs to have a sit down talk with the thousands of people in that state that fly the rebel flag:lol:

[Mr. Salty]

Lantern,

I started following his career in Winston Cup because I could identify with him. He was young like me, he was well spoken, and he was polite. He was also kicking the asses of the established drivers in very short order. The more the morons booed him, the more I liked him. It's the 20% (number plucked from midair) or so hardcore redneck rebel flag waving fans that give NASCAR a bad name, by and large it seems to be becoming more mainstream every year. Personally I think that is a good thing. You obviously have a closer place for it in your heart, so I won't be surprised if you disagree. I know you are some kind of NASCAR gearhead with family in the "bidness", but you need to lighten up. Not everyone that lives in the South speaks like Larry McReynolds or wears a mustache.

[f1racer]

This thread cracks me up coming from someone who's avatar is a Senna shrine...

[Lantern]

HAHAHA......


But what does the way one speaks have to do with anything?


I am often amused at how many people jump to a conclusion on the intelligence of someone based strictly on how elequently they speak(or how pronounced one's southern accent is).




"I know you are some kind of NASCAR gearhead with family in the "bidness", but you need to lighten up. Not everyone that lives in the South speaks like Larry McReynolds or wears a mustache."

Statements like these let ME know just how much you do "know".;)


But, I understand what you were saying about Gordon. I just have never needed anything other than an admiration for the way someone drives to follow their career. To some I guess where they are from or how they speak is more important.

[Pacific]

Rednecks aren't killing NASCAR: NASCAR is. NASCAR's greed for money knows no end now. It was nice watching the Pocono race because owner Joe Mattioli is a rare gem as track owners go. He doesn't have his races sponsored, why? Because he finds that by naming them the Pocono 500 and the Pennsylvania 500 people know where there at. Many tracks don't have consistent sponsors, so you don't necessarily think of the track when you hear such and such 500 or 400. I mean, the Coca-Cola 600 is certainly an exception, so is the Pepsi 400 (which many of us still call the Firecracker 400, heck, some still call the 600 the World 600.) The actual teams and drivers don't bother me so much...but NASCAR's quest for the almighty dollar...as a fan, I want NASCAR to be profitable, but to me NASCAR has lost a lot of personality over the past 10 years. Losing Dale Earnhardt is a big part of that.

Nowadays, drivers that speak their minds tend to get into trouble. I loved it when Michael Waltrip went off during The Winston. I love it when Dave Marcis and A.J. Foyt ridicule this 7 provisional crap...Foyt notes how the Penske cars got sent home at Indy in 1995...PENSKE!!! And it wasn't Hiro Matsushita, Hideshi Matsuda, or Lyn St. James behind the wheel either.

It does bother me that a lot of the "rednecks" dislike Jeff Gordon so much...but a lot of them have been fans FAR longer than the "mainstream" fans and, like me, they probably miss the personality NASCAR had. I think a lot of us older (older in terms of how long we've followed NASCAR) NASCAR fans aren't very happy with all the artificial ways the racing is made close so all the 2 bit morons who need constant action can be satisfied. (Go watch WWF or WCW, or what not.) The drivers just aren't allowed to have personality anymore because so much moneys involved from 80 billion sides that if you say anything somebody is going to get upset and take their money out.

Overall, Fox has done a good job. Some of the little extra stuff they do, like that whole Monster Mash song thing at Dover, I can live without, but overall, the guys have done a good job of calling the races...certainly they aren't lacking personality. It'll be interesting to see what Alan Bestwick (whom I like), Benny Parsons, and Wally Dallenbach Jr. do for NBC. Having Larry Mac and Jeff Hammond from the crew chief perspective has been nice.

As far as fans doing their own Dale Earnhardt tributes for however long, that's fine, but if it goes beyond this season on the TV and stuff, then it will be ritual that will lose meaning. I hope the 3 car is brought back personally. I miss it, and I think Kevin Harvick is a fitting driver to drive the 3 car. Just like seeing the 43 out there. John Andretti doesn't really approach Richard in NASCAR, but seeing that 43 brings back lots of memories every time. Just like that 45 Sprint PCS car...it's so great for that team to go on as it was to go on. And I hope Kyle doesn't listen to the critics and keeps driving. Kyle's driving isn't the problem right now...PE has made some changes in personnel the past two weeks and Larry McReynolds will probably join them as a consultant the second half of the season. That's what Kyle needs, is somebody who has the ability to take some of that aspect of decision making off of his shoulders. Lord only knows how Kyle and Brett Bodine get it done. (The 11 car has picked up speed...still unlucky, but faster. Many thanks to Ralph's and Redcell for sponsoring Brett.)

[Lantern]

Well said, Pacific.


I too am sick of the manufactured garbage that passes for great racing in Nascar today. Sounds like you want the early eighties style of Nascar back as much as I do;)

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by f1racer
This thread cracks me up coming from someone who's avatar is a Senna shrine...

Valid point, but IMHO there's a difference between the 'ritual' as started by a large television company (Fox) and my personal Senna avatar which is just that: a personal thing, not some ritual some large company tells me to do because it's 'the right thing to do'.

[FEDERAL]

Pacific,

Just because Joe Mattioli does not have a corporate name in front of the Pocono 500 or the PA 500, does not mean that he doesn't have the races sponsored. TNT (now part AOL Time Warner) dumps loads of cash into the Pocono 500 to sponsor the race. I do respect the fact that he won't change the names of the races, but there is no way he could stage the races without major sponsorship!

[arcwulf7]

Fox is going to play this Earnhardt thing for all its worth (it boggle the mind what they're going to do to Speedvision). Even Petty was complaining about how disproportionate and contrived the whole thing is getting.

As for the booing -

I can see how a lot of ol' southern redneck NASCAR fans feel totally left out of the the new NASCAR. I mean the protype NASCAR driver was Junior Johnson, who got his start running moonshine out of the Bayou. The cars used to be things that were worked on in some free time at the back of the body shop. Tickets were a few bucks, you could set up your pick up in the infield and load up on beer and bbq steak sandwiches. Now they have 25,000 dollar hospitality suites. Like F1, the driver's public time is all taken up with promotional stuff. You get this glamour boy, soap opera good looking Jeff Gordon whose beating up on what's left of all the good ol' boys because the sponsors think he's more photogenic and appealing to the 'new fans' who are probably drinking white wine, and nibbling hor d'oerves in their air conditioned, filtered, antiseptic suites. And none of them know a damn thing about cars.

Yeah -- it's okay to boo, providing you're not just a newbie poser pretending you're an ol' boy.;)

[FordFan]

Pacific,

I don't think anything is killing NASCAR. It's certainly different from what it was, but that's not all bad. BTW, name me another series that has over 30 races a year at packed houses (sometimes, for the second time around). Everyone's complaining about the hardship of adding races to the calendar (compare that with CART).
Much as I love to criticize NASCAR, they're doing a bunch right, and the best drivers seem to be near the front - which is all you can ask of a racing series.

Parts of Indiana (Gordon's home state) are indeed very southern (in the bad sense). If I not mistaken, the Klan had its birth there.

As for the booing of Gordon, I hope they boo away, as he beats everyone to a pulp at Sears Point. The only thing keeping him from a victory there will be a wreck (someone else's), a mechanical DNF or some screwed up cautions. In a straight up race, no one's a match at a road course.

[RiverRunner]

I kinda gave up on NASCAR in the mid to late eighties.I used to never miss the race they used to have at Riverside,a Road Course.Something funky about seeing those guys attack the old off camber right hander at T6."Set up" apparently wasn't even in the vocabulary of a NASCAR garage back then.
I still watch Daytona and Talladega,but with the bogus rules they run at those tracks anymore I have no idea why I still watch those two races.I still go out to Fontana for a Sat when they are in town(not on raceday,the place is packed to the gills and the traffic is horrific).As does Lantern,I also have a relative who is involved in NASCAR,Joe Gibbs,and oddly enough one of his cars is sponsored by a company my pops is heavily involved in at the board level,so freebies or not,I just can't garner any huge enthusiasm for NASCAR.
All that being said,I really think Gordon is an exceptional race car driver,probably the best at all forms of it since Tim Richmond (RIP)
Earnhardt never did much for me as a racer and more often than not I felt his tactics were not "racing" in it's purest form.
His nicknames of Ironhead and Intimidator had more than a bit of truth to them.
The ritualistic 3rd lap of silence is fine with me,for this year,but the NASCAR silence on the reasons behind his death trouble me greatly,as does their attitude of denial in making sweeping safety changes to assure the NASCAR fan will not endure more deaths from the same type of accidents in their beloved "sport".

[The Rock]

I have to admit that is "lap 3" salute thing is getting bloody annoying.Earnhardt was a good driver and was probaly worshiped as some sort of demi-god (i've only started watching NASCAR this year , so i don't know much about it) when he was alive, but LET IT GO!. How many other drivers have died in NASCAR and the fans probaly couldn't care else.I think this smells of a bunch of hypothetical money making rednecks.

[Pacific]

Lantern- I liked the mid-80's the best.

What I like about NASCAR now is how competitive all the teams have gotten and how driver quality is way up than back in the day when H.B. Baily and such would show up now and again. Nothing against H.B. or anything. But at that time, there were some teams that were doing it because they could. A lot more ARCA teams made NASCAR attempts: Bobby Wawak comes to mind. (There are many, and I remember that period fondly)

It's nice for the teams and such that NASCAR is so successful financially, but for me, NASCAR has become a show, and not a race. To me, that is killing NASCAR. I love the NASCAR racing, not all this extra gobbledy-gook that goes on nowadays. Now it has to be "The Total Entertainment Package."

I HATE restrictor plates because the racing has become so artificial. The races at Talladega and Daytona have become far more dangerous now than when Bobby Allison ALMOST when into the stands in 1987. ALMOST counts in horseshoes, hand-granades, and atomic warfare. Even then, the high walls at Talladega and the catch fencing kept Bobby's car out of danger. If anybody was in danger, it was flag-man Harold Kinder. Man did Allison come close to hitting the flag stand.

The thing is, NASCAR COULD easily run Talladega without restrictor plates and without all these aerodynamic devices to create artificial racing. I'll take watching real multi-lap battles between Rick Wilson and Lake Speed over this 43 car pack crap anyday. That's a f'ing joke if you ask me. It's that kind of crap that draws "fans" (not fans of RACING) to NASCAR and why these "fans" don't like CART or F1. "There's not enough passing." OR "I can't pronounce the driver's names." OR "I can't identify with the drivers." First off, the battle at Canada between Ralf and Michael was a real battle...that's racing...that's drama. This weekend's race at Pocono was real racing too. That's what's nice...MOST of the Winston Cup dates are still rather unmolested. But my favorite track (Talladega) has been ruined by NASCAR's greed in which they sacrifice real racing for a show to make money. And to us old NASCAR fans who are real fans of racing...not the fad that is NASCAR. The idiot fans who knew nothing of Darrell Waltrip's greatness back in the day. All they know is the Darrell that ran his own team and drove for lesser teams that became less and less interested. Darrell even admits he should have retired two to three years earlier.

Take of the plates, get rid of these Handford wannabees, and let the cars lose. Put the hard Pocono tire-compound on the cars too for some speed control, but also for tire durability. We don't want tire problems at Talladega at 220 mph. Talladega was designed for 200 mph plus racing. Current aerodynamics help keep the NASCARs to the ground and without packs of 43 cars, the only thing that's really going to cause are car to get airborne is a blown tire. I have faith in the drivers at Talladega to be able to not turn each other around when they're in much smaller packs or running alone. But alas, this isn't a good show...it's only racing...and that doesn't bring the WWF "Give me entertainment now damnit, NOW!!!" crowd to the track buying all sorts of things, watching on TV....

As for the clan, I would suppose it was Tennessee, since the founder, Nathan Bedford Forest, has a day in his name in Tennessee. (Nathan Bedford Forest Day)

As far as Gordon at road courses, there are drivers equal to him: Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, Mark Martin, and of course many of the road racers who look to be at Sears Point: Boris Said, Brian Simo, Scott Pruett , and now Dorsey Schroder appears as if he will be in a second Cingular Wireless car. Anthony Lazzaro may be at Sears Point, for those who car. Morgan-McClure almost got Jason Miller to run at Sears Point apparently.

Jeff is good, but his team is very good too. At this point, Ricky Rudd must be looked upon as his biggest competition. Pruett in the 33 car could be pretty strong too. Simo and Said will definitely qualify and qualify well, because the 77 car and the 90 car haven't been running too bad lately. Things should be interesting.

[TheDestroyer]

Not to sound crass or irreverent, but probably about the same time that the hoopla about Senna does...

[Elspeth]

I agree with Mr Salty about Jeff Gordon. He is not seen as 'one of us' ('us' being NASCAR) because he is not from the South, and he is a genuine nice guy with a beautiful wife, loaded with talent; just 'different' from the other drivers. He has been booed since he came up to NASCAR.

[Lantern]

If the reason behind jeff Gordon's anti-fans(sound familiar?) is that he is not from the South then why is it that Tony Stewart, Rusty Wallace, Steve Park, Mark Martin, and Johnny Benson to name just a few are all cheered when they do well and each one of them is also not from the South? Each have hot women by their side and are pretty damned nice since I have met each of them(Tony being the one that come closest to my personality.....that's not really all that good:lol:).

The reason is only because the man wins too much for a lot of the people's liking........hehehe...and that a lot of the fans that boo him are husband/boyfriends of the women that adore him as it would be hard to argue that women make up the largest portion of his fanbase;)

[The Swerve]

Originally posted by Pacific
As for the clan, I would suppose it was Tennessee, since the founder, Nathan Bedford Forest, has a day in his name in Tennessee. (Nathan Bedford Forest Day)

Really? wow.

[Mr. Salty]

News to me. Never heard of him or his alleged "day". What the feck are you rambling on about Pacific?

[Ricardo F1]

"Not to sound crass or irreverent, but probably about the same time that the hoopla about Senna does..."

Probably true TD, but to sound even more crass at least Senna deserved it.

[Lantern]

Probably true TD, but to sound even more crass at least Senna deserved it.

Why?

[Dudley]

Not to sound crass or irreverent, but probably about the same time that the hoopla about Senna does...

I haven't seen any TV sponsered finger waving on any lap of any F1 race ever in his memory, clearly I've missed it.

The point is, it's horribly disrespectful to every other driver and frankly not that respectful to DE.

[Ricardo F1]

Hey Lantern - why did Senna deserve it you mean? Well apart from being a man who could say he was the best at the top echelon of the sport of Motor Racing, which Earnhardt can't, he was also a national figurehead for Brazil and did incredible work to help the homeless and needy in Sao Paulo and the rest of Brazil. Indeed the Ayrton Senna Foundation still goes strong today and still contributes a great deal of money to the needy in that country. I didn't see days of mourning across the United States when DE died, that's what Brazil did. He was a lot more than a racing driver to that country.

[GasPed]

Ricardo, just to set the record straight, Earnhardt may not have been a World Champion, but he was and is still an icon in American motorsport. Perhaps not with the deity-like status that Senna was accorded in Brazil, but he was by far the most popular figure in motorsport in the US in the past 20 years, perhaps in the history(?) American motorsport. He also did devote a substantial amount of his time to those less fortunate through charities, guest appearances, etc.

I disliked his driving "style" but I have to give credit where it's due - he did keep motorsport in the public eye in the US almost singlehandedly in the last 10 years.

And yes, Senna probably deserves just as much if not more in the way of tribute, if one wants to measure these things quantitatively. But neither would probably want or deserve a lap of silence for every race in the season.

[Pacific]

The Swerve- Nathan Bedford Forrest Day is July 13 and considered a "Special Day of Observance" by the Tennessee government website.

Now, as a disclaimer, I believe Forrest received his day because of his work as a Lt. General in the Confederate Army, not his involvement with the KKK. The KKK was founded in Tennessee though, and Forrest was the first Grand Wizard. However, he left the group after a while because he felt they had become too violent.

I didn't know this off-hand, I did this thing called "research." Forrest also has a State Park in TN.

[Mr. Salty]

I had this long well researched response to Pacific's post.

I deleted it when I realized he/she isn't worth the effort. Tools like Pac will never understand the US South , they will always blame all racial ills in the USA on the South.

I just have to learn to accept the facts, that all sins of the people that lived here 100 years ago are my fault, and every black friend I have is a "token", and, despite the fact my family has only been in the States since they fled Ireland four /five generations ago, , I MUST have some slaveholder blood in my system.

[skylark68]

I find it difficult to say anything negative about a guy who is dead, as that person will come back and haunt you, and will put a hex on you which will take too long to remove. This is a junx thing - just read the "Book of the Dead" to see what I mean.

A tribute to # 3, keep em coming I say, keep em coming. yep, good ole # 3.

________________________________________

"It's what he would have wanted." Quote from every funeral I have ever been to. Quote from every announcer who mentions #3.

[RiverRunner]

'well I heard Mr. Young sang about her
'I heard ol Neil put her down'
'But I hope Neil Young will remember'
'a southern man don't need him around anyhow'

"Sweet home Alabama"
Lynrd Skynrd (RIP)

I spent some time in Atlanta and loved the place...until a winter of freezing rain anyway,then it was back to sunny SoCal.
The south is a unique and history filled area of the US,more power to them,just stay there though and don't join the rest of the flock that moves to SoCal to live every year.
;)

PS about Forrest,in the movie Forrest Gump,Forrest was allegedly a distant relative of Nathan Bedford Forrest

[TheDestroyer]

Dudley, NASCAR is a marketing machine and what they are doing is basically cashing in on Dale's death. Whether or not the family is gaining from this I couldn't say.

However, my statement was mainly focused on the fans reactions. Sometimes, right or wrong, when a person is killed that person either becomes a martyr or in the case of sports heros - gods. I don't know NASCAR so I can't speak for Dale's driving accomplishments but from the postings on this BB it sounds like he was more of a personality than a race winner. This is different from Ayrton Senna - Senna was a hell of a driver (his records show that) AND he was a real personality in F1 and while non-American fans can sometimes get caught up in the personalities more often then not they are drawn to true talents, even more if the talent has a personality, some Americans buy the marketing hype...

To me, NASCAR is alot like WWF wrestling (no, I'm not saying the races are fixed), meaning the drivers are made out to be characters instead of letting their accomplishments speak for themselves...

Side note: I am a first generation American, brought up on a large diet of Euro sports so I think I can make statements about the American sports scene

[titrisol]

I think the Earnhardt's #3 ritual will continue for a while...
I live in NC (NASCAR country) and for me it's wild to see thousands of people with the #3 in their cars/clothing/hats even in their houses... a marketing tribute to a fallen legend.

Regarding the booing, it's true, I went to a race in Rockingham to see what the excietment was all about: 1st NASCAR is a show, there's music, beer, girls, much like a circus. 2nd NASCAR is for the fans, you can get a few meters from the garages the night before and see people working, even take pictures of them... they are nice to the fans all the time. 3rd NASCAR races are a family show, most people go there with coolers and grills and it's like a huge party outside the track. The race itself is not that much fun, watching races in an oval track doesn't do much for me, the part I enjoyed was the first lap (flying start), in which you can feel the floor moving by the cars passing, so much power in there... of course it was much fun after a couple of beers.
After the race you can go close and even touch the cars, and from what I saw J.Gordon takes the booing as a compliment after all.

The most appealing part to me is that teams work together and help each other. A couple of weeks ago a race started, there was a crash and the race was stopped before the 1st lap ended. The pilots were allowed to take the spare car, (it was raining, so the race was delayed ~1h) I think it was wonderful to see people from 2 or 3 teams helping each other to have the cars in racing condition and have a fun race. Gordon won there.

[Pacific]

Mr. Salty- What the hell are you talking about? All I'm doing is making a correction that the Klan wasn't founded in Indiana, it was in Tennessee. Did I ever make any statements about the South? No. Feeling guilty about something? I just think for the sake of historical accuracy it is important to note these things.

I have no idea where you read anything of mine about race. If anybody's a tool...

[TheDestroyer]

So I guess Jeff Foxworthy's "You might be a redneck..." series of jokes wouldn't be apropo?

[tifoso]

Just to expand a little on Pacific's research.

Klu Klux Klan, either of two distinct secret terrorist organizations in the United States, one founded immediately after the Civil War and lasting until the 1870s, the other beginning in 1915 and continuing to the present.

The 19th-century Klan was originally organized as a social club by Confederate veterans in Pulaski, Tenn., in 1866. The organization quickly became a vehicle for Southern white underground resistance to Radical Reconstruction. Klan members sought the restoration of white supremacy through intimidation and violence aimed at the newly enfranchised black freedmen.

The 20th-century Klan had its roots more directly in the American nativist tradition. It was organized in 1915 near Atlanta, Ga., by Colonel William J. Simmons, a preacher and promoter of fraternal orders who had been inspired by Thomas Dixon's book The Clansman (1905) and D.W. Griffith's film The Birth of a Nation (1915). The new organization remained small until Edward Y. Clarke and Mrs. Elizabeth Tyler brought to it their talents as publicity agents and fund raisers. The revived Klan was fueled partly by patriotism and partly by a romantic nostalgia for the old South, but, more importantly, it expressed the defensive reaction of white Protestants in small-town America who felt threatened by the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and by the large-scale immigration of the previous decades that had changed the ethnic character of American society.

Source: http://www.britannic...u=47396&tocid=0

Now on to Dale Earnhardt...

Like, Mosquito, I've chosen my avatar to be a personal rememberance of one of my favorite racing drivers. Earnhardt was probably close to his peak as a driver when he came to NASCAR, he spent many years performing miracles on dirt tracks before he got his big break yet he stayed competitive for almost 20 years. Something many other great drivers couldn't do. He was also a kind of transition figure in NASCAR between the bootlegger past and the "mainstream" future NASCAR aspired to.

I grew up on NASCAR but now I think they have a lot of problems. To my knowledge they are the only sanctioning body that doesn't mandate safety standards in the drivers cockpit. They leave driver safety up to the drivers. I think this is wrong. Sid Watkins once said about F1 drivers, "they have no brains." They are different from you and me. It's hard to maintain the absolute confidence you need to win and be worried about safety at the same time.

Any investigations are done in absolute secrecy. They may be the most thorough and painstaking investigations in the history of motorsport; but by not letting interested parties see and be involved in the process, they do themselves a tremendous harm. I also believe NASCAR is now "paying for" its popularity. The France family has worked for years to get NASCAR to this point, but now that they are mainstream, they invite mainstream press to comment on their actions -- not the previous "enthusiast" press to which NASCAR was accustomed. This is a mainstream press that grew up during Watergate. All authories lie, coverup, etc. NASCAR was totally unprepared for this.

They promoted themselves as a family sport because it was the safest form of racing. And for many years that was true. Many safety innovations now used in other racing series were developed in NASCAR. But they were unprepared the rash of deaths they have experienced. NASCAR can no longer say they put on the safest form of racing anymore and they look like they got caught with their pants down.

Lastly, the drivers have to figure out a way to have more of a voice within NASCAR. But they're all scared. I think it was in the 60s, the drivers boycotted a race at Talladega. NASCAR put other drivers in the car, sold out, and went on from success to success. So the drivers are afraid to say anything to piss off NASCAR and their sponsors.

I think unless NASCAR takes a serious look at how it handled itself in the aftermath of Earnhardt's death, we may be seeing a sport at its peak. They need to make a lot of changes now that they are "mainstream."

What NASCAR did right for many years was market themselves and their sport. Those bunch of "rednecks" as they've been called here rival Bernie in this regard. But now they need different skills.

Now for the memorials...

Have we seen a second race at a NASCAR track since Earnhardt's death? I don't think so. All of the tracks they've been to date want to show their respect for a great driver. The fans that paid good money to go to those races expected it. If they do it the second time NASCAR comes to their track, then I think it's a bit much. And, yes, FOX does do a lap of silence on lap 3.