18 replies to this topic

[Max Torque]

1. Say there are two drivers that have equal points at the end of the season. Driver A 6 points, driver B 6 points. They are tied in the 12th position on the final WDC standings.

A has gotten his points early on, scored them earlier, which means he reached 6 before driver B. And his best finish was 4th.

B scored his last points later, meanning he reached 6 after B, but has finished in a better position once, 3rd.

Which one would be classified 12th and which 13th in the official standings?
I am asking because right now Montoya and Frentzen are tied with 6 points.
Frentzen scored his earlier, but Montoya has finished higher.
In the records I keep I have Juan higher because of his higher finish, but at Canada they showed the official standings after the race and they had HHF 10th and Juan 11th.

Please enlighten me.

_______________________


2. Does a driver need to finish at least one race to get officially classified in the overall final WDC standings of the season (note: I am NOT talking about the race, but the whole season).

Because say, Driver A can't race at the Nurburgring and Driver C replaces him for that race only. C DNFs and never gets to race the rest of the year.

Is he still classified in the overall season standings?
The classifications below the drivers that scored at least once are given according to how high a driver finished races.
For example: If 16 drivers got points and one got 0 points but a 7th place finish, and another one 0 points but two 8th place finishes, the one with the 7th finish will be classified 17th in the standings and the other one 18th.

So, if you never finish a race, do you get classified dead last (after everyone else), or not at all (your name isn't mentioned at all)?

Thanks.

And before you tell me that I am an unbelievable geek and 'who cares', well, I care because I always keep an archive of the F1 seasons and I want everything to be perfectly right and official.

[Peter Perfect]

I thought that if two drivers were equal on points then they counted the number of wins and worked back from there.

It doesn't matter when the driver scores points during the year.

[Vunz]

Max,

You could check Forix, imho their statistics are very accurate.

cheers

[Clatter]

Peter is right, its done on count back No of wins, seconds places etc.

Not sure what happens if they are still tied after that.

[Max Torque]

Yes that's what I thought, and I checked Forix and it has Montoya higher as they should, but the official standings on the broadcast (Siemens, TAG Heuer?) had HHF higher.

Did they make a mistake?

[John B]

I quickly checked Forix, and they have standings for a year just for point scorers. I used Phillippe Strieff in 1984 as an example, he entered just 1 race that year, in a third Renault at Estoril. My guess would be, even if you don't finish you earn a place in the standings; if you crash on the grid you get a 26th (24th, 22nd depending on the year....) I realize you could still have instances where two drivers have the same best result, which brings us to the point made by Clatter (which I should know, but can't think of now.... )

[Clatter]

26) If two or more constructors or drivers
finish the season with the same number of
points, the higher place in the Championship
(in either case) shall be awarded to :

a) the holder of the greatest number of
first places,

b) if the number of first places is the
same, the holder of the greatest number of
second places,

c) if the number of second places is the
same, the holder of the greatest number of
third places and so on until a winner emerges.

d) if this procedure fails to produce a
result, the FIA will nominate the winner
according to such criteria as it thinks fit.

I went and checked the rules and here they are.

I would love to see d) applied Can you imagine the arguments this would generate.

[TheDestroyer]

Clatter, if "D" happened that would be as absurd as the U.S. college football rankings - all subjective!

[tifoso]

Clatter, I agree, if 26d were applied, this forum would be hopping.

As for Max Torque's 2nd question, back to the rules:

Classification
168) Cars having covered less than 90% of the number of laps covered by the winner (rounded down to the nearest whole number of laps), will not be classified.

Max's question was:

2. Does a driver need to finish at least one race to get officially classified in the overall final WDC standings of the season (note: I am NOT talking about the race, but the whole season).

Because say, Driver A can't race at the Nurburgring and Driver C replaces him for that race only. C DNFs and never gets to race the rest of the year.

Is he still classified in the overall season standings?

If driver C didn't finish 90% of the number of laps covered by the winner in the one race he was in before he DNF'd, then he isn't classified.

[John B]

26d is great stuff. At least the US sports I know about go ahead and officially put "coin flip" as their last resort (baseball, football, etc setting the final season standings for the playoffs)! I wonder if they'd start looking at qualifying if the race results can't determine a winner. The odds of a pure tie would are pretty small, but with small grids (and if DNFs are not counted) it could happen once....

[Rich]

Is it an earth-shattering event if H2F is declared 10th at the end of the season and JPM 11th or vice versa? I think not. The vast majority of fans wouldn't even notice, much less care. I suggest that they just do it alphabetically. Drivers like Zonta and Zanardi need to learn the error of their ways.

[John B]

Rich, if HHF managed a 10th and 11th someone would notice, especially if they were behind Jordan in the WCC....

deactivating obnoxious mode.....;)

[Rich]

Oops, meant JPM instead of the second H2F. Corrected. Darn, this claret is good.

[Mila]

Rich, you're right that most people wouldn't give a stuff which driver finished 10th in the final WDC standings.

we could, however, imagine a mid-field driver having a performance clause in his contract that would earn him x number of dollars for 10th spot at season's end.

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Rich
Is it an earth-shattering event if H2F is declared 10th at the end of the season and JPM 11th or vice versa? I think not. The vast majority of fans wouldn't even notice, much less care. I suggest that they just do it alphabetically. Drivers like Zonta and Zanardi need to learn the error of their ways.

Rich, if you had taken the time to read the entire post of the thread you decided to offer this invaluable contribution to, you would notice these words:

Originally posted by Max Torque
...well, I care because I always keep an archive of the F1 seasons and I want everything to be perfectly right and official.

But I guess reading the entire post before addressing it is not general practise, especially for an Atlas Judge.

Sorry in advance for the cheap attack, but I couldn't help it.
I was annoyed.

To everyone else who took the time to answer my questions, thanks a lot. I appreciate your help.

[Rich]

If a team owner came to me and said 'Okay, I know you finished tied tenth, but Max flipped a coin and decided to make you 11th so sorry, no bonus', I'd have to ask myself what sort of a long-term future I had with that team.

[KinetiK]

Originally posted by Rich
Is it an earth-shattering event if H2F is declared 10th at the end of the season and JPM 11th or vice versa? I think not. The vast majority of fans wouldn't even notice, much less care. I suggest that they just do it alphabetically. Drivers like Zonta and Zanardi need to learn the error of their ways.

So... what you're saying is that drivers with a surname that start with 'z' have to be very careful as they tend to get dropped by their team after a year or so of driving?

[Rich]

Max, apology accepted. You seem to be annoyed a lot these days. On a happier note, I can't say the same for myself.

[leegle]

In the Australian title conditions (I just looked up the manual) it says and I quote:

"In the event of a tie in the final score the award shall be determined if possible by taking into account the number of superior places; if this method does not determine the tie, the award will be made equally to the tied contestants remaining."

I think there has only ever been one tie for a winning position but there is another system used when there are two or three heats in a race were the ultimate position at the end of the competition is determined by the higher place scoring in the final heat.