41 replies to this topic

[CATMAN]

MS is supposed to have full confidence in himself, with Ferraris unique position in F1 he has PROBABLY got away with a lot of things that others would not.
NOW WITHOUT ENRAGING OLD ARGUMENTS and apart from the old end of season moves.
Take it that he was really annoyed with HIMSELF, re the DC incident at SPA. Take it that he drove into the wall in Canada and last year he lost his cool at Silverstone.
Is his determination and self confidence leading him into a dangerous chapter. And if the Ferrari has to fight with McLaren if it doesn`t have an advantage.
Could MS crash real big time, rather than just sit back and take defeat. His performances from the back of the Japanese grid have made me wonder.
The talk is of Ferrari success from the off next week, if it is not a success will Schueys on the edge style be stretched leading to fatal errors in his quest for glory. We have seen Hill walk away when he can`t win, and the same sort of thing with Mika. We might knock them, but they are still alive!
I know that Michael has very dedicated followers, but do you not see a possibility that he could end up in a bad way due to his determination and on the edge style?
I would rather see Schuey as an old man enjoying talking about former glory, than be remembering him like we do Senna.

[Frans MSH]

As answer on your question; yes he could.

[Rich]

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that MS is pushing the envelope too far. If he was prone to doing that, he'd have crashed big time at Suzuka in an attempt to catch MH.

The Silverstone crash was mechanical failure, nothing he could do about that. Canada was a very slight mistake, getting onto the marbles while lapping a Prost and losing it. Two other WDC's also crashed in the same spot at Canada, so I doubt it could be viewed as grave driver error.

Throughout his career, Michael has pushed it to the max, perhaps more than any other driver. But he knows the limits well. He will often overstep that limit, but 90% of the time it only results in him running wide and then regaining the track. Apart from the brake failure at Silverstone, where have you ever seen Michael lose the car in a big way? It simply doesn't happen.

If any driver is a danger to himself and others, I'd hate to say it must be JV. At least when Michael loses the car it's because he's fighting hard for the lead and the championship, not because he had a bet with the mechanics.

[Steve A.]

MS's drive at Sepang was brilliant. He showed
that he's still got it.
I don't think for a moment that he's a danger to others, or pushing it to far.
I must admit that he seems to crack a little under pressure i.e Jerez 97, Japan 98
Lets hope that MS & Ferrari do it this time.

[Fast One]

You don't think the Sepang drive was a danger to Hakkinen??? Michael is a brilliant talent, but that was the most shameful drive in F1 history, and if anyone else but Michael had done it, he'd be sitting out a few races. And Rich, please knock it off with the spin control. Silverstone was driver error, pure and simple. Frankly, I don't think the brakes failed, but even if they did, it was apparent to anyone that he wasn't going to make the corner anyway.

Michael frustrates me, because he clearly has bags and bags of talent, but he has potentially fatal flaw: he'd rather risk it all than be beaten. From Macau on we've seen it. Michael's a little older now and has slowed a bit, in my opinion. I think even he realizes that Mika is a tad faster over a lap. I just hope his inability to accept that on any given day he might not be the best doesn't end in tragedy.

[Linus27]

I think Michael walks a very fine line when his back is up against the wall. He is right on the limit and he can produce some fantastic drives but like I say the line he treads is very thin and an example is Austria 98. I can see him making a big mistake it depends on how bad the outcome will be.

[Toxicant]

How do you figure the Sepang drive was a danger to Mika? It was quite obvious that the Ferrari was faster then the McLaren and Mika had to know this. Just as you say that Schumacher pushes to far rather then loose so did Mika. Mika could have sat back and collected his third place finish, but no he tried to stay on Michaels gear box in hopes of getting by and wining the championship.

Michael did everything he could to show Mika there was no chance so back off. He brake tested him over and over but Mika just wouldn't give up. I think Mika put himself in danger, not the other way around.

Judging from the looks of Mika after the race, he was totally exhusted and defeated, wining for these guys is everything. I think a driver that gets into the position to win something big will push past the envelope in order to secure that.

A drive like that is far more impressive to me then the one in Japan. I fail to see how some on here claim that Japan was a brilliant drive, he made a better start then, in my oppinion a not really trying Schumacher, and drove the car home to victory.

To me Sepang makes Mika a worthy champion, they taste it, and they go for it no matter what. I don't see that determination in drivers like Irvine, DC, and many others.

What you're seeing is not an out of control over the edge driver, but a true world champion.


Tox!

[Lantern]

I still can't figure out how some of you think that someone in second place should give up their position. DC blocks several times in a season so Mika can run off on a lighter fuel load(and he on the heavy). I won't even get into the lap down blocking techniques applied.



[This message has been edited by Lantern (edited 03-04-2000).]

[CATMAN]

Silverstone made so much mega news, yet did we ever really get a full post mortem? No, because it was driver error what ever may have gone wrong with the car.
I think you miss the point with all the pressure this year, Schuey has to live on the edge if his car does not dominate. And it does not matter how good you are or think you are, things go wrong when you push to the limit. If we take it that the fight is between the No 1 Mac and Ferrari drivers, the pressure is off of Mika and on Schuey. Two in a row to Mika already so it won`t be the end of the world if he can`t make it the third, he can relax and just let it flow.
Schuey on the other hand has to deliver, massive trauma last season, 21 years of non WDC for the team and his years of failure at Ferrari, Tifosi and all the other fans and Italian press and all the sheep saying he is the Man, the correct script has rarely been written in the arena of sport. As I`ve said before you are only as good as your last result.
Go show the WDC points to someone who does not know about F1 or Schueys style, in his time at Ferrari he is just a good also ran.
An Ex champ who has failed to deliver. I think he is in a very tricky situation this year. I have posted my prediction elsewhere, and I don`t wish to inflame things here but just try and get some views on the true position he is in in the eyes of the F1 fans.

[Rainstorm]

Fast One,

"You don't think the Sepang drive was a danger to Hakkinen???" -- if you think that was a danger to Hakkinen, then I have no clue what you perceive Formula One to be. We might as well have qualifying-like sessions only, where each driver is sent out to the track on his own, and the only competition is againt the stopwatch.

Regards,

Rainstorm

[Karter]

Catperson,

your original quote "NOW WITHOUT ENRAGING OLD ARGUEMENTS" was said with sarcasm surely, as nearly all your posts either directly or indirectly knock MS. Even in non MS threads you will take any oppurtunity to dig up the past and have a go.

Does his sucess disturb you that much.

[Bob Nomates]

Schumacher is an excelent driver he is very fast but I think he only takes risks where if it goes wrong it will only cost him a small amount, like going off the track at slower corners, generally there is a small risk of the drivers going off the track at fast corners because of the increased downforce I think he seems to be in control all the time.

[Rogue]

In this case Catman, I think you actually have a valid question here. That said, no, I don't think he represents any more danger to himself or anyone else than other drivers on the track.

You are correct that Schumacher has pressure on, but he has had that pressure on for the last 4 years and has not lost the support of Ferrari or the tifosi. If anything, I think the pressure this year is less than previously, if for no other reason than the fact that their level of confidence is high, but also because they did manage to taste some success after last season.

While Schumacher may have to drive on the edge a little more than some, although only when the car is not upto scratch, he has shown himself infinitely capable of keeping it togather through most situations, even if he has a minor excursion every now and then. After all, he has continued to maintain his finishing record at Ferrari, one that is greater than Senna's and Prost's in terms of percentages for the last four years, all whilst driving often on the edge.

In a recent interview, sometime last year, though I can't remember where I saw this, he commented on knowing when to leave, when to back off because someone fast has come along and is pushing so hard that one cannot keepup safely anymore. I think that the fact that he is able to make these observations about himself, knowing that sometime in the future he may need to make the decision that he can no longer push hard enough to keep up with some new young lion, is enough to indicate that he is not prepared to take higher than normal risk of death behind the wheel (certainly not like he may have done in the past - though I don't think anything he has ever done has been that extreme, but some would argue...).

Last season's misadventure I think has strengthened Schumacher this year, as evident from his rather superb return in Sepang. Whereas at the beginning of last year I thought he looked tired and lacking the "fight", I think his break (no pun intended) has really refreshed him and he is back with more of the winning attitude that he had in '94 - '97. I also think that this change or refreshment is a lrage part of why many observers are touting him as the man to beat this season. The thought that Ferrari may be giving him the car to beat this season aswell has been bonus to the idea above that surfaced at the end of last season.

Either way, I am looking forward to a real ripper season !



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Rogue
f.1@altavista.net

[Rich]

Fast One, 'frankly I don't think the brakes failed'. Frankly, I think they did. I have a report which agrees with me. What report do you have that agrees with you? Or does your bias rise above the need to produce any physical evidence?

[This message has been edited by Rich (edited 03-04-2000).]

[EdwRom]

Are we still debating about the brake failure vs. driver error at Silverstone? So MS, knowing that in a few seconds EI was going to get the call from Todt (Ok, idiot, what were you thinking?, let Michael trough!), goes and do this season-ending (posibly 1999 WDC-ending) Banzai move? Let's get real!



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Ed
Going for my 1st GP (USGP) in 2000!, I think??!! (Hey Tony George, where are my tickets?)

[Paste]

All you need to do is look at who started this thread to get a bearing on the legitimacy of it...

[Todd]

This is just wishful thinking from the usual bunch of Schumacher detractors. If anything was suspicious about Silverstone, it was his spinning rear wheels. Was there a link between his brakes and throttle? That would raise eyebrows. Fortunately, Schumacher detractors don't know enough about the technology involved to have even asked this question. Now they've married their feeble intellects to the "driver error" theory and they'll ignore the only real intrigue for something that there is no evidence of whatsoever. How mony times have Michael and Eddie tangled on the track like the McClones? Exactly. If the 3 car hadn't been defective, Schumacher could have shed hid entry speed and tucked in behind Eddie in the first place. If there is a driver who creates a danger for other drivers several times a season, it is the twit with the cube for a head. Next?

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Forza Michael Schumacher,
Todd

[Moritz]

Maybe ive missunderstood the whole "Racing thing".
It seems to me that too be competetive in formula one or any other form of racing you have too be on the limit, and some times even over it, especially if youre aspiring to be a WC.
This makes me think that everybody on the grid is a danger to himself and to the others, or otherwise there in the wrong sport, they should probably be playing ping pong instead.

Forza Gene

[Fast One]

Rich--

You believe the report; I don't. So I guess we'll agree to disagree. But allowing that the brakes did fail, I think it was evident to an awful lot of experienced GP watchers that he wasn't going to make the corner anyway. The rest, in my view, was spin doctoring by the Ferrari team manager to protect the reputation of their "investment". Anyway, sorry if I sounded testy, I wrote that before I'd had my morning caffeine!!!

Rainstorm--

I guess I grew up in the wrong era, but I was taught that there is an ethical premise in racing that is necessary both for safety and for fair competition, and that is that any driver has the right to presume that the driver in front is going to accelerate as soon as possible, brake as late as possible, and maintain a semi-reasonable line around the track, EVEN WHEN FIGHTING FOR POSITION. That means that if a group of drivers are slipstreaming each other down the straight, noses-to-gearboxes, that each driver has the right to presume that the guy in front of him is not going to break test him half-way down the straight. God help racing if that ethic ever vanishes, because carnage will ensue. There's nothing wrong with shutting the door on someone, even shutting it hard, but ramming a guy who's about to pass you because you've damaged your own car crosses the line, and so does forcing a guy to lay back out of passing distance because he isn't sure where on the track you may decide to jam on the brakes. Schumacher spent that entire race about five miles over the ethical line. I doubt that Schumacher was faster, in fact I know he wasn't. Had Mika got past, he would have driven off into the distance. Schumacher knew it, too, because if he'd really been faster, he wouldn't have needed to drive like he did to stay ahead.

Schumacher has Jackie Stewart-like talent. Unfortunately, I think he has a Jochen Rindt-like brain. I just hope he and those around him have a better end than poor Jochen did.

Anyway, feel free to disagree. More recent fans of F1 seem far more tolerant of the idea of using the car as a weapon than those of my era. So be it. Just don't ask me to admire it.

[Rainstorm]

Fast One,

When someone begins his argument by saying "I guess I grew up in the wrong era", I give up. Because evidently, you're from the stone age, since it's pretty much the only era that isn't represented on this Bulletin Board or around me. If you mean to say you began following racing 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago - then sorry to break the news to you, no matter when it was you weren't the only one, so don't condescend me by putting this down to a difference of generations.

Funny, you mention Jackie Stewart. Do you mean the same Jackie Stewart who is renowned for his crusade to improve drivers safety? Are you referring to that same Jackie Stewart who "climbed" all over Ayrton Senna's case in an interview he conducted with Senna after he won the WC crashing into Prost, in 1990?

Because if you are talking about the same Stewart - then may I remind you it's also the same Stewart who said, with admiration, after the Malaysian GP that Schumacher's drive was a masterpiece?

And what was it about not maintaining a racing line? Schumacher did not weave but once ahead of Hakkinen.

Furthermore, not at any point was Hakkinen in danger or about to be driving into Schumacher; being *just* fast enough is something Schumacher apparently knows how to do, unlike Hakkinen's teammate.

And what was it about the 5 miles beyond the ethical line? Well, allow me to be nasty and say that, if to judge by your recollection of the Malaysian GP, I strongly suggest it's time for that visit to the optician -- I can testify from my own experience that people from old eras come to a point where they really do need glasses, and preferrably ones with non-tainted glass....

I will agree with you on disagreeing, that's for sure. I will agree with you on our right to hold each to his own. But just please don't rationalise it with "eras", "age" and such crap; you are romanticising the past and very conveniently neglecting to mention (if you at all remember) that Hawthorn and Moss, for one - though each much nicer persona than Schumacher and Hakkinen combined - had their share of dicing on the road, putting themselves in situations far far more dangerous than that of Malaysia.

Regards,

Rainstorm

p.s.

I was tempted to say that even Hakkinen was publicly impressed by Schumacher's performance in Malaysia, but then I realized Hakkinen doesn't really know much since he grew in the wrong era...

Ah, the age of innocence.... if you actually check it out, you'll find the sweet girls were smoking in the school back yard, your next door's neighbour was beating his wife (if not stealing from his boss) and some race drivers were assholes the size of ten Schumachers combined...


[This message has been edited by Rainstorm (edited 03-04-2000).]

[Fast One]

Rainstorm--

Pardon me, but what on earth does your reply have to do with anything I said. I was NOT being condescending, merely pointing out the oft noted fact that drivers behave differently on the track that they used to, and that fans react differently as well. I attribute that to the amazing degree of safety that modern cars have attained. Cars can actually (and deliberately) collide with no harm done to the occupants. a few decades ago, both drivers would have gone up in flames. That's just a fact. I certainly wasn't insulting you, so kindly remove the chip from your shoulder and we can discuss whatever you want.

As for Jackie Stewart, I said Schumacher had his level of talent. I don't recall ever saying I shared an opinion with him about anything. So what would your point be?

I agree, Schumacher only weaved on the first lap, but he brake tested Hakkinen all throught he race. Again, how does that respond to my point about driving ethics?

As to the rest of your tantrum: thanks, I see just fine...new prescription. Perhaps it's time for your first visit. Second, Moss and Hawthorne never drove like Schumacher did in Malaysia...ever. And if someone put themselves in a position to pass, or their cars were broken, they let the other guy past and went at them again another day.

Beyond that, I can't make sense of what your point is.

[This message has been edited by Fast One (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Nasty McBastard]

To be honest, i think MS puts himself and other drivers at risk less than say, oh, i dunno... damon hill trundeling around for a whole season when he really couldnt be fecked.

"Take it that he was really annoyed with HIMSELF, re the DC incident at SPA."

Sure, he wanted to brain DC. I probably would of done the same. Sure, doing it on live TV infront of the world was probably a bad decision, but hes not putting anyone at risk there any more than that bloke whos a bit too pissed at the pub on a friday night.

"Take it that he drove into the wall in Canada"

Sure... and so did villeneuve, and zonta, and a couple of other guys

"and last year he lost his cool at Silverstone."

Must of missed that one. all i saw was him stuff it in the wall after an attempt at a pass was buggered up by saggy nipples or whatever it was.

Im sure MS could crash bigtime, JV has a habit of stuffing into the wall at eau rouge, so i guess hes a danger to others aswell?

Personaly i think the fact that MS would rather push it up to, and possibly over the limit instead of chucking in the towl and admitting defeat, is one of the reasons the guy has as many fans as he does.

Maybe damon should of took a leaf out of mikes book last year.

[Incal]

Tox and Nasty have got it right. Further more if MS or MH would back of and settle for second I give up watching. MH performs best under pressure as does MS who it could be argued is the best. I hope Mac and Ferrari performance is on par and that both drivers push, could be quite a season then. As to MS being a danger to others or himself if pushing the envelope, Pleeease what is racing if not pushing the envelope. These guys are the best and sometimes **** happens and that's racing also.

[Williams]

Racing is a risky business, and a driver "on the edge", literally on the edge of control, often looks like crashing out or endangering another car every second of the lap. The trick is to actually stay on this fine edge without actually falling over it. Perhaps this is why MS's driving looks "dangerous" to some.

When MS first did his first test for Jordan, he only had the one car and engine for the race that weekend, and the team was really worried that this rookie was going to lunch the car. It was emphasized to him that he was to drive safely and be sure to bring the car back. He immediately began to lap in times on a par with the other Jordan drivers, and the team began to get nervous about leaving him out. He reassured them on the radio "It's OK, I am near the limit but not over it". This same ability to lap near enough the limit to make observers nervous for him and others on the track, without actually overstepping that limit is the hallmark of the great driver.

MS himself recognizes just how tenuous that limit is. In his interview with DH in F1-Racing he said that when he feels pressure from some young rookie and finds himself overdriving to stay ahead, then that is the time to quit, since he would then adopt an unnatural driving style while trying to maintain his position on "the edge", becoming a danger to himself and others. So it is not that MS is unconcious of the dangers of driving "on the edge".

[Rogue]

Thanks Williams, I couldn't quite pin down when I had seen him saying that. I'm off to read those comments again.



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Rogue
f.1@altavista.net

[loppa]

this may just be a simple view of the silverstone accident, cause his brakes had failed, it LOOKED as though he wouldnt make the corner.. locking his front brakes made this appear more likely..

so. to say that he had no chance of making the corner, and saying his brakes had failed is pure manure... how can someone make a corner if they have no brakes? either they did or they didnt fail.. i believe they did fail... the simple fact that on the replay his REAR WHEELS WERE SPINNING tells me that the rear barakes failed...

[magnum]

not to pick sides,but im with FastOne on this one:schumacher's ethics left much to be desired at Sepang. I don't quite agree that Mika was faster, but brake testing is and always has been a no-no in motor-sports.
I think it comes down to Moss's comment about tight rope walkers - anyone can do it with a net, but when ure fifty feet up,the skill remains the same, but the whole concept changes ...
having watched Gp racing since i was a child, I'm enclined to agree with FastOne - F1 racing has changed in ethics and morals. There was a time when gentlemen raced this sport, but those days are long past.
As for Rich's comment about Schumacher never having a big shunt apart from Silverstone, I beg to disagree - Spa some years ago saw Michael hit the wall backwards at a very fast rate, an accident that a decade ago would probably have killed him.
As to the topic, i doubt whether we'll see Schumacher with the commitment he had before silverstone and before his kids ... he is getting to Senna's age now, and he has too much to lose not to wonder what the risk is worth. A racer he surely is, but ... he will find himself running against a two-time champion in Mika Hakkinen, a man who has come back from the brink and shows little sign of not being prepared to go there again - only if Ferrari are very dominant will we see a Schumacher WC this year.
I can't help recall the race at Monza in 67 when Brabham, passing Clark, slowed to point at the Scotsman's deflating rear tyre - and resolve myself to the knowledge that today, a man like Schumacher would not even think about such sportmanship ...
I also think back to an article Nigel Roebuck once wrote, when he spoke of Phil Hill seeing a fellow racer burn to death at the Buenos Aires 1000km race ... on the track, a current F1 driver had done something silly(schumacher, of course), and one of the "young" reporters had turned to Roebuck and said, as way of explanation, "but the pressures are so much more these days" - Roebuck's quote was "Ah ..."
Grand Prix racers of the past were fully aware of their position in the hearts and lives of the supporters - i shudder to think what this crop are instilling in the young guys coming up - certainly not sportmanship ... as for Senna, he too was known (!) for his on-track mania - but he was also a man acutely aware of his country's problems, and he resolved to try and do something about them. He may have been ethically "impaired", but he understood the power he had - the current GP drivers are basically a bunch of spoilt brats with their trainers and accountants and gurus ... i wish the good ol' days of GP racing would come back, days when Gilles and Arnoux drove like maniacs at Dijon in 79 for second place like NASCAR runners ... here's a quote from Nigel Roebuck's wonderful book chasing the title, "We should have expected nothing else. It had been ragged, it had been wild and frantic, but it had been clean. 'I don't know how many times we touched,' Gilles said, 'but i know it never happened because one of us was trying to put the other off the road.'"
How times have changed...

[Brent]

Nice Magnum...

CATMAN...pass the joint. Who know's?

Your thread only caught my eye cause of ya use of "CAPS" like ya bloody name...

What a absolute load of crap your post is full of..(politely speaking)

I'll be nice...one day....loser

[CATMAN]

Thank you for your valued input Brent, I take it that you`re full of Sh!t as you are prepared to smoke it.
Most of the Schuey faithfull believe that he can push to new limits on the track, if you take it that the top drivers are giving 10/10 in a competitive car and that Schuey is going further (super human! what ever you want it to be)than others, he must be getting nearer to disaster.
I can accept that Silverstone may not have been all his fault, that was not the point in this whether it was or wasn`t. Reverse the positions at SPA, we would have nearly all the Schuey fans blaming DC !
So what, I only put forward that,what ever you believe. MS has possibly made potentially fatal mistake in recent times, as the years go by and with a young family and all the pressures of winning will he push to far into the danger zone in the quest for glory?
I could also ask whether the fanatical Ferrari fans could be expecting to much, and be responsible for pushing a good driver to far.
Thank you for all your views, I am glad we got some good input on this. In my view of course.

[Peeko]

Hey yeah, this makes total sense; a Race car driver giving 90%. You Schumi bashers are all the same and a joke. Because he pushes it more than others, he's potentially dangerous. If he didn't push hard enough, the same people would be saying he's not a true racer because he doesn't give it his all "like Mika does", and he's a wimp.

If you want to call MS 'lifting off'(which is what he was doing) in Malaysia brake testing, then this puts Spa'98 at rest, and we can blame David for 'brake testing' Schumi. Whew. Finally cleared that one up.

For those that say Silverstone was driver error; so was Adaleide'95...

[This message has been edited by Peeko (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Pacific]

As an F1 fan who liked NASCAR 9 years before he liked F1 I must say I don't mind drivers blocking other drivers. NASCAR has always had lots of blocking. Intentionally hitting people is one thing. NASCAR doesn't have that anymore. I am disturbed that the Craftsman Truck Series is trying to sell itself on the fact it has so many wrecks. You think after the Geoffrey Bodine accident they might have re-thought that. Thankfully, enough people have been hurt or killed in NASCAR Winston Cup so that the driver don't blatantly run into fellow drivers anymore.

So, as for Schumacher blocking Hakkinen, that's racing. I in fact didn't even have that big of a problem with the weave Damon Hill pulled a few years ago at Canada. He didn't run into anybody. I was concerned he was going to cause a crash, but none ensued so...that's racing. Look back at F1 in say 1991 when you had moving chicanes like Coloni out there. They didn't make a race, but still...they participated in the F1 practices and qualifying sessions. Was Coloni deemed a danger? I don't know. Auto racing by nature seems pretty dangerous to me. Especially open wheel cars like F1, CART, F3000, IRL, etc.

As for Schumacher's incident in Silverstone, to me, when I was watching it the first time as it happened I was kind wondering what the hell was happening, the red flag was already out. They say Ferrari hadn't told him yet, but if the World Feed has it up there then I would expect the drivers to have been told by their crews by that time also. I would have been somewhat surprised to see Schumacher pull of that pass on Irvine considering he was going to be on the outside. But, I've seen Schumacher, Hakkinen, and others do some amazing things on the track. I would have put odds on Schumacher wrecking trying to pass Irvine. Still, a rear brake failure, I would have expected a little more problems on the other turns leading up to that one. If it broke right then...if the disc explodes like Frentzen, that's going to cause some other obvious damage and I don't think Schumacher would have been so straight on. If the I just can't imagine the line breaking so fast that the caliper never engages. I think Schumacher may have been doomed with that turn from the get go. It was an aggressive move to attempt to pass Irvine there at that juncture of the race. He had plenty of laps to pass Irvine later. Sometimes Michael is overly aggressive. This is true of most F1 drivers though. (Although I hear Ricardo Zonta is not.) Of course, we know Jean Alesi takes it easy

The biggest danger at the track may be Norbert Haug. If he ever trips and falls on a McLaren mechanic...How do you get that big? He's got to weigh three times more than Roberto Moreno. (Moreno's about as big as your average horse racing jockey)

[Samurai]

As far as SChumacher being so desperate to get the title this year, and in high pressure make or break situations his making a really bad lowdown dangerous move again like Jerez or in '94 is a real possibility I think.
But the Ferrari car will probably be so dominant (and of course Barrichello won't be allowed to challenge) that he might be able to breeze into the title on the back of this vast car superiority like he did in '95. That's the only way he's ever going to get the title. If it comes down to the wire I think he'll blow it again (hopefully with no tragic outcome).

[JayWay]

Samurai,

I would barely call Jerez 97 a dangerous move. He basically tapped him under breaking. Was it wrong? Yeah, but it wasn't dangerous. I think you just like to make up these things in your head to make Schumy out to be so evil, probobly cause your a jealous Hill fan. Thats the only explanation I have after reading so many of your posts that all carry the same tone.

[Fast One]

Jayway--

Ramming someone at 100+ mph, when you're both in open wheel cars isn't dangerous? Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess I've been basing my opinions on erroneous assumptions all along. Just to clear it up, though: where did you get your PhD in physics?

[JayWay]

Fast one,

100mph?? They were basically under full braking. And if that is considered dangerous then im sure you could find an example in every race which you could use against that specific driver for the rest of there carrer. Tora Takagi riding the top of Luca Badoer (was it him?) almost hitting him with his tyre is dangerous, not what Schumy did. What Schumy did was just a stupid move racing wise.

[loppa]

fastone, where talking about jerez 97, what are YOU talking about?

i have seen the fottage many times, they wouldve been going 20mph?! maybe!?

100mph in to a fairly tight corner!?

it WAS a bad move, but far from dangerous...

[Samurai]

JayWay and others
the bad thing about SCumacher's move was that he did it on purpose with the intent to damage the other guy's car and take him out of the race.

[JayWay]

Yes, but it wasn't a dangerous move..And thats what this thread is about, danger.

[CATMAN]

We hear complaints about blocking manouvers, but how about making the car WIDE, ie. positioning the car on the track so that it is virtually impossible to over take. If the guy behind you has slightly more speed than you, surely if you make the car wide you are forcing the guy into making a risky move!

[magnum]

The word is subtlety -anyone recall Jack Brabham throwing his rear-view mirrors at Amon's Ferrari in 67?Now that was subtle-apparently Brabham had a vibration :-))))

[MrAerodynamicist]

I think that at times he can go too far. Fangio once said "You must believe that you can become the best, but never believe that you have become the best"
Many drivers fall foul of this, Senna & Schu are IMO very good example of this. Who could forget Senna at Suzuka or Schu in Jerezgate.

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MrA
All hail King Jaxs
"Have you wondered, that perhaps, all the world's lunatics are in one place?"

[bschue]

I just read an article from Yahoo, about MS not being afraid of death. I think he is full of _hit!! All this is a bunch of rhetoric trying to psche out his competition. He is married and has a kid (maybe two - I'm not sure). I would think if anything he will be more careful now he has more commitments.