14 replies to this topic

[FEV]

I was wondering who has the great Nürburgring lap record ? Have
the 1975 German Grand Prix records been beaten (fastest race
lap: Regazzoni, Ferrari 312T, 7'06''4 and pole: Lauda, Ferrari 312T,
6'58''6) ? If yes who did it ? German Group 5, Formula 2, Group 6
or Group C, or why not a more recent F1 car that would have
competed in an historic meeting ? If not Lauda must be the only
man on earth who officially lapped the mythic Ring in less than 7
minutes . Can Anybody help ?

FEV

[Jhope]

I belive it was Derek Daly in a Porsche Group C car that lapped the mother of all circuits under Lauda's time. The year was 1983 or 1984 if i'm correct.

[jpf]

http://www.born-free.net/ Has a pretty comprehensive list of N-ring lap times. It lists a 1983 Derek Bell time of 6:41, but even more amazing, is the 1983 time by Stefan Bellof of 6:11. These were both in the Porsche 956 Group C car.

[Vitesse2]

Thanks for the link jpf - I shall explore that further!!

I know Bellof was bloody fast, but I find it difficult to believe he could beat Derek Bell by a full half minute in similar cars - how accurate is this time???

[C F Eick]

The 1975 qualification lap of Niki Lauda at 6'58"6 min (196.38 km/h) is the fastest official lap ever done at the 22.835 km Nordschleife. However, I've heard several rumors that Niki was faster than this time during testing sessions, but I've never been able to confirm that.

The fastest offical lap at the post-1982 20.832 km Nordschleife was set by Stefan Bellof in a Porsche 956 in 1983 during qualifying for the 1000 km-Rennen at 6'11"13 min (202.05 km/h). The fastest race lap was also set by Bellof at 6'25"9 min. Christian Danner came very close to this time at the 42nd Eifelrennen in 1983 when he recorded the fastest ever race lap in Formula 2 at 6'28"03 min in his March-BMW. Unfortunately I don't know the best practice time for this race, but I doubt it was below 6'11"13 min.

Returning to the 22.835 km configuration, the fastest ever race lap set by a bike was Marco Lucchinelli's 8'22"2 min on his Suzuki 500cc at the German GP 1980.

Interesting observation: in 1976 the best F1 practice time was James Hunt's 7'06"5 min. The same year Rolf Stommelen put the Stommelen/Schurti Porsche 935 on pole for the WC sports car race at 7'37"7 min, which in fact would have placed him 25th on the F1 grid, ahead of Guy Edwards' Hesketh-Ford (7'38"6 min) and bumping Pesenti-Rossi's Tyrrell-Ford (7'48"5 min) out of the grid.

/Christian

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by C F Eick
I've heard several rumors that Niki was faster than this time during testing sessions, but I've never been able to confirm that.

That's Lauda's 6'58"2 during unofficial practice for the 1974 race. Source: Mike Lang - Grand Prix! Volume 3.

[FEV]

Thanks to you all for the info.
About Bellof being half a minute faster than Bell I've got an idea.
Or should I say the late Bob Wollek had an idea. I remember an
article in GPI's last year when they were covering WSC. Talking
to him about Bellof, Wollek was saying that when the german
goes 3 to 5 seconds faster than Bell on a track like Monza it
could only be because the Porsche Engineers allowed him more
boost. That probably was the case for this amazing Ring time.
Bellof is one of the heroes of my childhood (I was a 10 year-old
amazed spectator of the 1984 Monaco GP : he was so fast in his
strange blue car) but its a shame that such political things give
us a wrong idea of is potential. If you add the fact that the
1984 Tyrell was illegal who can tell what was Stefan's real
potential ?

[mat1]

Originally posted by C F Eick
The 1975 qualification lap of Niki Lauda at 6'58"6 min (196.38 km/h) is the fastest official lap ever done at the 22.835 km Nordschleife.

(...)

Interesting observation: in 1976 the best F1 practice time was James Hunt's 7'06"5 min.

Why was qualifying in 1976 so much slower?

mat

[Michael Müller]

Boost or no boost, racing the old ring at an average above 200 kmh was, is, and will remain something extraordinary, which can only be understood fully if one knows the track.

[jk]

I can see on the list that in 1983 the Ring was made 2km shorter. Why was that, and where did they cut the track?

[LaurensDeJong]

>I don't know the best practice time for [the 1983 F3] race,
>but I doubt it was below 6'11"13 min.

It was 6'26.19 (Danner).

[mat1]

Originally posted by jk
I can see on the list that in 1983 the Ring was made 2km shorter. Why was that, and where did they cut the track?

The old Start/Finish-part was cut off, because the new GP-track was built over there.

mat

[LittleChris]

I've got a copy of the video of the 1983 Nurburgring 1000Km's ( Includes the in car lap with Derek Bell later used in the In-Car 956 video). Apparently Bellof was going faster and faster each lap until the lap after he set the 6 min 11 sec record. He then lost it completely on landing after the Pflanzgarten and totally destroyed the car. Great driver, but didn't know when to take it easy when miles ahead of 2nd place !!

[LaurensDeJong]

Bellof's accident at Pflanzgarten is talked about on

http://www.izdebski....83/ring_83.html

That site, though difficult to navigate, has other interesting info on Bellof, and the Nürburgring. Not all of it pretty.

[C F Eick]

Thanks Leif and Laurens for the info on times!