22 replies to this topic

[pacman]

Well i have been checking the local Melbourne newspapers for a week now (The same papers that print nothing about F1 for 11.4 months of the year) but still think they know everything about it for 1 week.

I found some stuff that some of you might find amusing , and some may find offensive.

Jordan Honda: After Damon Hill left F1 with all the fanfare of a silent fart, jordan replaced him with nippy italian Jarno Trulli. HHF looks good enough to mount a challenge to hakkinen and schumacher, if the car holds up. Otherwise he can always try and mount one of the pitstop poppits, which might be more fun and less dangerous.

Ferrari: Michael Schumacher will fancy himself again. he has the confidence born out of the beleif that everyone else is a ****. The Teutonic Tosspiece would be our top tip for the champion if we didn't let our personal dislike cloud our judgement.

Benneton playlife: have kept the same team of G.F. and A.W., but wurz will have to improve if he wants to drive anything other than a Schnitzel deleivery van in 2001.

jaguar Racing: Should get the UK crowd behind them with two british drivers "Shagalot" Eddie Irvine and gentleman Johnny Herbert. Irvine and Herbert are roumored to "GET ON".
Which should be fun to see at 180mph.....

Well that was all very positive wasn't it????
Nice to see Melbourne papers are doing their bit to promote the sport at its best.....

got to love the title in sundays Age: "BUTTON FLIES IN, READY TO ZIP AROUND".

And onto the subject of Button,, its nice to see all his peers come out and support him,,NOT!!!!!!!.

Salo basicly said "Button could kill someone in Melbourne".....
Jackie Stewart said "even Einstein had to go to college, he didn't just go from kindagarden to university....
Villeneuve has had a dig....
Martin Brundle has been the worst , some of his comments have been OTT, (But reading the paper , they gave Martins job, as David Coulthard's manager).....IS THIS TRUE???. And if it is "it explains alot"....

So,,,, what if Buttton dies in a first corner accident,,(like the one involving Martin Brundle"s "FIRST AND LAST" year at Melbourne).
Whats everyone going to do???, run around with a smug smile saying "i told you so?".

Little boys and mind games!!!! Greg Moore won his first Cart race at 19....Jacques was 20 when he started in Cart......

Leave the boy alone,,, let him race atleast once before you make a Judgement.....
Otherwise if Button gets a respectable finish,, the likes of Mr Brundle and Mr Steward may have to do a 1 legged race down pit lane with their other foot tied securely to their mouths.....

JENSON BUTTON,, the name still makes me laugh, sounds like somethink of the THUNDERBIRDS........Go Jenson,hehe...

Pacman

[Hendy]

Jacques started when he was 24. Greg won his first race at 22 - he started racing at 20. Just a little correction.

[FlagMan]

Pacman - just what has Brundle been reported as saying - I haven't heard him make any really negative comments except that he thought that he was possibly a bit young and might struggle in making such a big jump.

I guess Brundle has the right to make that sort of comment, as I recall he also made the direct jump from F3 to F1 - so maybe its a warning from experience.

[Lantern]

If your job relied on finishes(such as a driver in a midfield team). Would you not be VERY nervous about the fact that you could have a race or more wiped out because of some young guy "learning the ropes".

[Rich]

I don't think the inexperienced drivers are necessarily the ones to be afraid of. How many accidents has DC caused, and he's one of the most experienced guys out there. I'm sure Button's not the type to deliberately hold up those who are lapping or overtaking him. He seems to have the perspective that it's a learning curve for him, and his job is not to try and win from the word go. I think he'll adapt fine.

[Indy]

Words of wisdom, Rich.

Still, even if he does take a few guys out in his first season or two, are you telling us the likes of Ralf and Jarno ( two of the most talented drivers out there) havent done the same.

AGAIN

Give the guy a break.

[HartleyHare]

Trulli was punting Hill off at every alternate race last year for a while. Where was the outcry then?

Quite right pacman and Rich (as usual). JB was superb in F3 and may make the leap to F1 rather well. Berger seems to think so and has put (BMW's!) money where his mouth is. I hope he is right.

And do we not remember the self-styled 'greatest driver in the world' deliberately ramming a competitor for the title at least once? Or was this a magnificent effort in a vastly inferior car (again)? Should his admitted wilfully dangerous behaviour not mean a permanent exclusion on the grounds of safety?

And here we are, stringing up poor JB for what he 'might' do. It is all rather baffling.

[Lantern]

If anyone is replying to my statement let me first say that I was giving DC's point of view not mine.

On the subject of Ralf and the others,

Ralf was older than Jenson when he was causing problems on track so why not be nervous about someone even YOUNGER with NO experience on most of the tracks???

I personally don't think the issue is whether or not he should be in F1. It is whether or not he should be there THIS YEAR. Hastily rushing into something like F1 can ruin a career that could have been brilliant. Why allow someone to do that? It is also not just the drivers who think so. Jenson only got his "super" by one vote over the number that Bernie had allowed him. One or two more years(testing) to learn about how to setup a car could help him come in with a BANG. Setting his career up for nothing less than superior rides till he says quit. Why shortchange yourself in a sport that is so unforgiving with an even more unforgiving press and fans???

[Lantern]

Stepping on other people's opinions is not the way to win them over BTW. Unfortunately I believe Jenson will find this out the hard way.

[mono-posto]

I think Jenson is in a lose-lose situation.
Not because he's a potential danger, but he's coming into F1 in the worst possible situation. A dominant team-mate (Ralf is definitely going to be quicker), a failing constructor, a new engine with a car going on new tires next year. A cut throat team boss, a one year contract, a lack of testing time, minimal race experience etc. etc.

He may very well be a really good driver, but he won't get a chance to show it this year, I guaruentee it, and that will be the end. If he does have the natural talent than it needs to be nurtured and developed. This is just way to quick. It's bound to burn him out.

[The RedBaron]

I think HartleyHare is hoping Jensen Button will turn into the next Damon Hill

[Rainstorm]

Let's get some perspective here, shall we?

Here is a list of the current drivers' age when they started F1:

Mika Hakkinen - 23
David Coulthard - 23
Michael Schumacher - 22
Rubens Barrichello - 21
HH Frentzen - 27
Jarno Trulli - 23
Eddie Irvine - 28
Johnny Herbert - 25
Ralf Schumacher - 21.5
Jenson Button - 20
Giancarlo Fisichella - 23
Alex Wurz - 23
Jean Alesi - 25.5
Nick Heidfeld - 22.5
Pedro Diniz - 25
Mika Salo - 28
Jos Verstappen - 22
Pedro de la Rosa - 27
Marc Gene - 25
Gaston Mazzacane - 25
Jacques Villeneuve - 25
Ricardo Zonta - 23

The average age of debuting is then 24. Based on that, half the current grid started too early, heh. And in any case, I don't see much difference between 20 and 21 so if it worked for Barrichello and Ralf, who's to say it won't work for Button?

Regards,

Rainstorm

[Nomad]

Rainstorm
Just a slight problem with your mathematics. If you take a group of numbers, with a normal distribution, and calculate an average then half of those numbers will always be below average.
That's the definition of an average, it's in the middle ;)

[Rainstorm]

Nomad,

How is that a problem with my mathematics? For all intents and purposes, there could be 20 drivers aged 24, one driver aged 23 and one aged 25 - in which case the average would still be 24 and yet only one driver would have been bellow average.... Average is not a mathematical "middle" but rather a mean -- to simplify it: there's a vast difference between the two, since the first (middle) is in between two equal parts whereas the latter (mean) is the average sum of a set of numbers and therefore can be anywhere as long as the SUM of both parts of the equation, to the right and to the left of the mean, are equal...

Cheers,

Rainstorm

[This message has been edited by Rainstorm (edited 03-09-2000).]

[Nomad]

Note 'normal distribution'
But let's not fight about stats, I should have smothered my post in ;) 's


[This message has been edited by Nomad (edited 03-09-2000).]

[MrAerodynamicist]

Oh, lets get into an arguement over the diffeent types of mean! I vote for the geometric mean [nth root of the product of n numbers, IIRC from my school days ]

------------------
MrA
All hail King Jaxs
"Have you wondered, that perhaps, all the world's lunatics are in one place?"

[Peter]

I bet that JB has scored at least one point by mid-season and has at least six by the end of the year.

It is all a matter of other drivers (or their managers) wanting to put him down and psych him out to protect their own positions.

Mika Salo (whilst being lapped by JB) will probably be more of a danger to them both!

good to see that MS (who is likely to be one of the drivers "at risk" as he will be most likely to be lapping JB) has not made such comments.

I will wait until Sunday before making my own judgement!

[FlagMan]

I find it hard to understand why Button should be regarded as a likely cause of accidents in F1 - his record does not seem to justify such a potential for mayhem.

Take his results in F3 in '99

UK F3 championship - 16 rounds - 14 finishes - 2 n/f - 1 accident - 1 mechanical failure

Not exactly accident prone - considering that the worlds 2 'best' drivers (MH & MS) both managed 2 n/f due to crashes.

What about racing on circuits that are new to him?

In '99 he was a 'virgin' on 4 circuits - Spa, Zandvoort, Macau and Korea - none of which allow much, if any, pre-race testing.

How did he do?

Zandvoort - qualified 6th in group - finished 5th overall

Spa - qualified 1st - finished 4th

Macau - qualified 2nd finished 2nd

Korea - qualified 2nd in group - finished 2nd

This does not indicate to me that he is slow at learning circuits.

So what will he be like when being lapped? - as is probably likely to happen frequently in the Williams. Hard to say - so far in his career no bugger has managed it yet! - but then again it would be no different for any driver coming in to F1 - they normally only get there 'coz they where winners in lower formula.

How will he do against his team mate? - after all everyone says that this is the only true test.

In two years in cars he has pissed all over his team mates - in FF he was the absolute novice in a 4/5 car squad - beat them all to win the championship. In F3 he beat his more experienced team mate 168 points to 45.


It seems to me that some of the drivers are trying 'mind games' - which to me indicates that Button has possibly already won the first round of the 'mind games' war - they wouldn't be trying it if he hadn't got them worried.

I think it could be an interesting season...

[This message has been edited by FlagMan (edited 03-09-2000).]

[Daemon]

I have my doubts, but I hope he puts in a good showing. That guy will get trashed by the London press should he go off at the first corner or lap.

[Sean L]

Michael Schumacher is the only current driver who has actually given encouraging comments about JB.

I will be very surprised if he has a worse season than the driver he replaces. Lets just give the guy at least a couple of races to find his feet and try not to write him off if his first few don't impress.

[FlagMan]

Sean - maybe MS recognises a bit of his younger self in Button - and probably because he thinks he has nothing to fear - for a while anyway!

[Lantern]

Rainstorm,

The drivers you have listed started an average of 4.1 years later than Jenson(1/5 of his age). So are you saying that he should wait a year or two ;)


I had already stated my opinion that he should wait a year...maybe two. Is one year so long to wait when you are 20 years old? If his promising career is ruined because he was too impatient he'll have people like his over confident father to blame for prodding him on at such a level of inexperience.

Don't get me wrong. I hope he does super. I just don't like to see talent wasted by jumping the gun.

[HartleyHare]

Wow, RedB, still maintaining your impressive standards, I see. Don't worry, maybe he won't do too well, then you can breathe a sigh of relief. But on the other hand....