22 replies to this topic

[RedFever]

Jaguar driver Johnny Herbert has tipped his former team-mate to be in with a chance of the title. The Romford Racer said Rubens Barrichello has the speed and the experience to make it a three way fight for the championship, along with his Ferrari team mate Michael Schumacher and McLaren's Mika Hakkinen.
"Rubens has the chance to do very well, as long as he has the right backing within the team," said Herbert speaking in Sydney on Tuesday. "He can beat Michael if he's given the right stuff. But Ferrari is Michael's team.
Rubens is a stronger character now and I believe it's probably the best time for him to move to Ferrari. I think he can handle it. Herbert also reckoned that McLaren's David Coulthard could be in for a good season. "David want to do well this year and I reckon he has the ability," said the Jag man.
"But he needs a consistent year. He hasn't been able to put the entire season together in the past, from a championship point of view, but he says he can do it this year." As for his own chances, Herbert thinks the Leaping Cat could overtake Jordan for third place in the championship.
"Our car is not a Ferrari or McLaren beater at the moment, but we're very much the next team behind them. At this point in time, I don't think we can win a race outright unless Ferrari and McLaren retire."

[130R]

I don't know, Johnny. Not only is Ferrari Maichael's team, he's quicker.

[TBone]

RB's season will be a lot like HHF's first season at Williams, IMO. Somehow I find the two scenarios quite similar. I wish I'm wrong and JH is right though!

[molive]

Hey Johnny, what´s new? I´ve been saying that for years!

[Ricardo F1]

130R - I think we'll only find that out this year. . . .

[Keith Steele]

heh, Johnny says its Michael's team and its ok, Jacques says its Michael's team and he is out of bounds. Good on Johnny, seems Irvine has been giving him lessons.

[Pacific]

Herbert is technically correct. Rubens COULD beat Schumacher. Gaston Mazzacane also COULD win the WDC. Now, Rubens beating Michael isn't as bad of odds as Mazzacane winning the WDC, but the fact Gaston looks to compete in all 17 races means he technically could win it. A lot of things would have to happen.

I would like to see Rubens beat Michael, but I just don't see that happening. Rubens is new to the Ferrari team and it is Michael's team. We've known that for some time and Ferrari put their resources behind Michael in 1996 for a reason. He was the two-time reigning WDC. Although Damon Hill got punted a few times along the way, which ticks me off. The main incident that ticks me off is Australia 1994 though. The incidents in 1995 weren't so bad, Damon described them as racing accidents himself. Well, the one involving Taki Inoue wasn't entirely racing.

I think if Rubens can get a win or two and finish in the top four in points that would be a good start to his tenure at Ferrari. Even if it ends up like Frentzen at Williams, at least Rubens will get a win.

[Daemon]

Rubens can beat Schuey. What, just like Johnny did in 1995. Sure Johnny, you just concentrate on beating Irvine.

[Horse]

Well said Daeman, my thoughts precisely! However, there is one thing Johnny does better than anyone else .... and that's talking to ITV's Louise Goodman after about 11 laps or so of just about every race ... I know, I know, he won last year ... not that it wasn't a freak of nature or anything!!

[Daemon]

Johnnys got a bigger mouth than any other drivers, INCULDING Irvine. Irvine is a funny at times, loudmouthed at others. Johnny just dishes up the same old crap year after year. To talk like he does you have to have some credit to your name. Mika or Mikey or JV, yes I take note on what they say. I used to like Johnny, but know I think the guy likes the sound of his own voice.

[Pacific]

Johnny Herbert's retirements weren't his fault last year. He had no retirements due to driver error last season.

Johnny Herbert did pretty good to finish fourth in the Benetton with a team that hardly ever let the man test the car in the pre-season or during the season. He also was not allowed access to all of the telemetry like Michael Schumacher was. Benetton screwed Johnny Herbert over and I don't see why.

Anyway, as for his freak of nature win, 10 cars were classified at the end of the race. Two of those were the nobodies of Mika Hakkinen and Eddie Irvine. He also beat such worthless drivers as Jarno Trulli, Rubens Barrichello, and Ralf Schumacher. It wasn't Johnny fault other cars had problems. That's because attrition is part of racing. It's not like the rest of the field retired from food poisoning.

That's okay, it's like Tom said, lots of people have their pieces of paper that say Schumacher rule and everybody else sucks regardless.

As for Herbert beating Irvine. He will.

[Laphroaig]

Hemm... Schum and Barri BOTH battling for the WDC? that's the worst that could happen to Ferrari, it would mean splitting too many points between them, good for the WCC, but in the WDC a cerain 3rd person might end up with most points...
Or on the other hand, if there isn't a 3rd person, we might have a Senna/Prost look-a-like situation again

[Bob Nomates]

Johnny is a great driver he has more talent than Irvine that's for sure, if Irvine does end up with more points than Jonhhy at the end of the season it won't be because Irvine is a better driver it will be because he got the best equipment or had more luck.....Herbert is one of the greats

[RedFever]

Funny how you always remember Australia 94 (I saw the other day the video from Hill's car, which I had never seen. I was always convinced he arrived behind SChumi without knowing SChumi went out, but instead he could clearly see Schumi still on the grass, therefore he cannot claim to be entirely a victim. He didn't use his brain at all), but never remember when Hill punted Schumacher out in an even more obvious way!!! What about Monza? that doesn't count? Hill slamming into Schumi's gearbox before the chicane causing both of them to retire? Are the points assigned in the GP of Italy less important than the ones assigned in Australia???? and that wasn't the only time Hill punted Schumi and himself out. It is very hard to be objective and avoid remembering only what is convenient to us, eh?

[Pacific]

Red Fever- Speaking of remembering what is only convenient, as for Monza of 1995 you apparently do not or conveniently forget to remember Taki Inoue changing lines on Damon Hill a couple times before that and making it extremely difficult for Hill to get past. While doing so he ran into Schumacher. I remember the ESPN crew asking "What was Inoue doing?" That wasn't Hill's fault and Hill was upset about it too and felt bad because he thought that he and Michael were going to have a great race to the end. While would Hill collide with Schumacher on purpose to take them both out when he was behind Michael in points at the time? Going into that race Michael had 66 points to Damon Hill's 51. Taking himself out with Schumacher gives him one less race to make up points which is more dangerous than preventing Schumacher from scoring. Hill doesn't run into drivers on purpose. Unlike the "greats" such as Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna. If only Johnny Herbert ran into people on purpose, he'd be a great. But alas, it wasn't to be for Herbert.

And besides I mentioned "The one involving Taki Inoue." Selective reading and selective memory double threat.

[Chris]

Hello,

Let's hope we are in a 'pure' world and the main actors are telling us the truth, ie. Schumacher is the number 1 and Barrichello 1 bis, meaning he has not lost any chances before the startof the season, for the moment I trust it (not the pure world, but the equal chances).

Anyway for the Rubens vs Michael discussion the factors are their relative performance and the Ferrari performance against their competitor, Mc Laren.

1rst scenario. Ferrari is well above Mc Laren. Rubens and Michael are pretty equal and are allowed to race, we will have no team orders and a great season (like 88) the best will win and the two will earn recognition, glory and new chances. All winners including Jean Todt.

2nd scenario. Ferrari is well above the Mc Laren, Michael beats Rubens fair and square, Rubens F1 career is over (Alesied), but at least he would have try. People will maintain doubts on Michael skills, with any kind of arguments (team preference, win with no challenge, blah blah...). No winner except Jean Todt and Schumacher just for his die hard fans.

3rd scenario. Mc Laren better than Ferrari, Ferrari designate Schumacher as an early number 1 to keep a chance. Except Hakkinen, everyone will loose : Schumacher, Todt, Barrichello, the F1 fan.

4rd scenario. Mc Laren better than Ferrari, but Barrichello due to a better start of the season keep the chance of fighting. Hakkinen is champion, Barrichello becomes the Tifosis number 1, Todt is seen as a visionary. Just one loser : Schumacher.

5th scenario. Teams equal. Great 3 or 4 way battle until last season race. no teams instructions; just kidding, unfortunately.

Well, I dream of the first or last scenario, but my brain say that once again we will get the second or third, and that after each race I will still ask myself why I cannot desintoxicate of these f**ing F1 races.

Anyway Herbert may be right...or not.


[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 03-09-2000).]

[RedFever]

Bullshit!!! if you want I send you the video from Hill's onboard camera. The Japanese moved to the lest well before the chicane, Hill zoomed by and then started braking when it was too late.

All I am saying is that Hill wasn't perfect, he punted Schumi out twice and don't forget the zig-zag at 190mph in Montral 2 years ago while being lapped. There are no virgin mary in F1, get over it. And Aussie 94, Hill made a mistake in trying to pass Schumi there, since he had more speed (even if he wasn't sure that Schumi had a terminal problem), he would have passed easily after the corner. Trying where he did meant a crash. Hill proved several times he often had a poor judgement when deciding to pass. The 99 season was the perfect example, he punted more drivers in one season then Schumi and Hak in their entire careers!!!

[Chris]

Sorry, it was a try to go back to the topic.
But I know we will soon have the Senna/Prost 89 discussion in this 'Herbert about Rubens vs Michael' thread...

[Pacific]

Red Fever- It's possible you're correct, but Taki Inoue caused lapping problems a lot that whole season though, so...I tend to trust Damon Hill on that one. I don't think Damon ever intentionally smashed into Schumacher. For me, Australia was just too convenient. If Schumacher had terminal problems you'd think he could have gone about things a bit differently too. The incident with Jacques Villeneuve though in 1997 just makes me wonder about some of these get-togethers that Schumacher had. I was already suspicious of Australia 1994, but Schumacher didn't help himself bashing into Jacques Villeneuve.

No, Damon Hill isn't perfect and I'll agree with you about last season, Damon Hill took out some drivers I like last season: Pedro Diniz, Alexander Wurz, etc. In fact, I never said Damon Hill was perfect, far from it in fact and he's probably the least talented champion in the 90's. I mean, it seems obvious that Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Schumacher, Prost, Mansell, and Senna were better. I mean, when you think about it, the Williams Renault should have beaten the Benetton Ford. (The Benetton Ford was still the second best car-engine combination though.)

I still get tired of the Schumacher is God and blameless attitude though that many have. Schumacher himself has it and now he's whining how none of us know the real him. Well that might be, but he doesn't help himself much at times. Considering Michael Schumacher uses female restrooms at times, maybe we don't know the real Schumacher (Just a little humor on that, don't get too touchy.)

[Em Gee]

Or on the other hand, if there isn't a 3rd person, we might have a Senna/Prost look-a-like situation again

Hmmm...we might in terms of two teammates going for the WDC, but we won't in terms of talent since Prost and/or Senna were superior drivers...

[Megatron]

Johnny got treated really horrible in 1995 by Benetton and ever since then, he seems to totally destroy anything good Micheal Schumacher does.

I remember a while back he made the statement that "David Coultard, Mika Hakkinen, Jacques Villeneuve, HHF, and himself could easily beat Micheal Schumacher".

Easily? Please.

[RedFever]

Pacific, I see we are getting closer now. I want to clear that I am not a SChumacher fan, I am a Ferrari fan, therefore Rubens' victories are as dear as one from Michael. But I have to confess it bothers me a little to see every discussion about Michael ending into the 94 incident. I always thought that was a freak accident. Michael made a mistake, hit the wall (I have a video from his onboard, he clearly leaves a small black sign on the wall. Was the car terminally broken? only he knows, but sure is that F1 car are fragile), rushed back in to keep the position as he verified the damage and right there, when he was probably with adrenaline at crazy levels, there is a turn and Damon tries the pass. I think 95% of the drivers in F1 would have done what Michael did, take the turn. Damon should have waited, but then again, I am sure he was as excited as Michael and his judgement failed due to the situation. I consider Australia 94 a race accident, it bothers me to hear people state that Michael calculated that. He was leading, touched the wall and got in contact with Damon in 2-3 seconds. It was a reaction of the moment and I consider it a 50-50 situation in terms of fault.

Now Jerez is different. I still think Michael got surprised by JV. If you look at the onboard camera, you see Michael strating to turn. All of a sudden, he must have seen Jacques on his side, and taken by surprise, he turns the wheel back left for a a fraction, to avoid contact. Then all of a sudden, he turns right again and drives right into JV. That I don't understand and don't forgive. It really hurt me as a Ferrari fan to watch that, to see the driver I was hoping would bring the title back to Ferrari decide to crash into the opponent. I know he had .1 seconds to decide and the stress of the race, etc. But that shows a flow in his personality. Gilles Villeneuve would have never done that. He would have let the guy pass and then attacked him back next lap. Schumi decided otherwise, and like for Prost in Suzuka 89 and Senna in Suzuka 90, I lost my respect for Schumi as a competitor. I still regard him probably the best driver in F1 today, but I like to win by crossing the finish line first, not by bumping the opponent out.

Regarding Hill. I know he was not as malicious in his career. But he has crashed into so many people. Maybe it was luck of judgement, a little like DC, who is a nice bloke but hits everyone. But Hill got over Australia, he knows better than anyone else that the accident there was one of those situations and I wish pople would get over it as well.

[Chris G.]

They can reform too. Look at Eddie, from checkered past to, well, I don't think he hit anyone who didn't have it coming last year.