45 replies to this topic

[JayWay]

Lets face it, before the 2000 season the norm for predictions was Barrichello would outqualify Schumacher around 6 or 7 times. It is the midway point of 2001 and he has done it, what 3 times?

He has won 1 race, and is now making it a struggle just to get on the podium. He is not pushing Schumacher, like early season pace (both in 2000 and 20001, which is weird. He just fades away) lead us to believe he would.

The question is why? Barrichello is a driver that beat Schumacher at Interlagos in a Stewart. Does no one find it weird that he has not done it once in the same car in two years at Brazil. Why has he underpreformed? Or is this just the real Barrichello?

[HSJ]

The answer is all four. Should be obvious. I never rated RB, so please don't start yell at me the old "but-RB-was-rated-highly-but-MS-is-god-and-trashed-him". Sure RB is good, like EI, and they are made look worse because of teamMS, but really the answer is all of the above options.

[Viss1]

Rubino has had trouble finding car setups that work for him. For whatever reason, Schumi hasn't really had that problem this year. Perhaps Schumi is more adaptable, plus there's no question who the team will defer to if the need arises.

Obviously, Rubino is one of the top drivers in the sport... it's just tough to be the only one directly compared to Schumi.

[JayWay]

Viss,

Where do you get the idea that Barrichello has had trouble finding proper setups?

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by JayWay
Lets face it, before the 2000 season the norm for predictions was Barrichello would outqualify Schumacher around 6 or 7 times. It is the midway point of 2001 and he has done it, what 3 times?

2 TIMES.

The question is why? Barrichello is a driver that beat Schumacher at Interlagos in a Stewart. Does no one find it weird that he has not done it once in the same car in two years at Brazil. Why has he underpreformed? Or is this just the real Barrichello?

Barrichello did not beat Schumi at Brazil in a Stewart. RB chose soft tyres to MS's hard tyres, and outqualified him by one position. In the race, RB was leading MS, until RB pitted on Lap 27, but RB was on a two stopper, vs MS one stopper.

When RB's engine blew on lap 42, he was 13 seconds behind MS(on previous lap), plus he would have to stop again, whereas MS would not.

[JayWay]

My mistake.

[RJL]

IMO RB was way overrated. I never understood why people thought he was so good. he was pretty much destroyed by Irvine at Jordan when he (RB) was supposed to be the established Number One. He ran off to hide at Stewart, where he could beat up on poor old Jonny Herbert (ironically it was JH who scored that one win). He's always been unbelievably fragile mentally and blames everyone & everything around him instead of just looking to himself.

I was really surprised when Ferrari took him but am not at all surprised at his current form. I think this last race best demonstrates what RB needs to be doing in the Ferrari: Quit trying to go as fast as Michael (and crashing) and just settle down to drive his own race at a manageable pace and bring the car home in one piece.

[Lamont]

Barichello has been a big disappointment. I had such high hopes when he joined Ferrari, and he can be fast in qualifying, but at most (NOT ALL) races he just seems to vanish into the woodwork.

[brett_sequeira]

RJL IMO RB was way overrated. I never understood why people thought he was so good. he was pretty much destroyed by Irvine at Jordan when he (RB) was supposed to be the established Number One. He ran off to hide at Stewart, where he could beat up on poor old Jonny Herbert (ironically it was JH who scored that one win). He's always been unbelievably fragile mentally and blames everyone & everything around him instead of just looking to himself.

so like is ferrari bonkers to re-sign him on for another year or do they know something we do not. more likely the second. wot say you guys

[magic]

he was fired by jordan.
he was clear no 1 at stewart, rookie jan 3b driver.
than was outqualified by jos and even by johhny 3x in a row.
even rookie bernoldi outqualifies jos.

he was outside henry's top 10 3x.

he's a neverbeen.

[molive]

RB was undisputed Nº1 in the Stewart. JYS loved him and would have kept him in his team if he could.

RB is the undisputed Nº1A ;) at Team Schummy. Even then Ferrari is content with him and re-signed him for one more year.

How much (in tenths of a sec) do you think this status (and everything that comes along with it) is worth? a couple? half a sec?

[John B]

Number 2 jumps out to me. The way I see it, if he had anything close to Schumacher talent, wouldn't he have picked up a front line ride in the seven years preceding his Ferrari appointment? He had some very good moments during that time, but not enough consistently to stamp himself as a true top contender. Last year after Hockenheim, I wondered if the win would boost his confidence enough to spur a Mansell or Hakkinen mid-career burst, but that hasn't happened.

Brett,

My guess is Ferrari is happy with the equilibrium (a bit similar to Hakkinen and DC 1998-2000) as it is, and figures the team's best opportunity to rack up WDCs is to keep the current setup. There probably aren't too many drivers now who want to risk a head-to-head with Schumacher at Ferrari, which could be a quick way to have the "star" potential tag extinguished.

[Goggles]

Seems to me that Barrichello is just pushing way too hard to stay with Michael. Instead of being smooth and driving the car within his limits, he keeps pressing on and on--this may be the reason why he's had quite a few "incidents" this year.

That being said, Barrichello should be lionized for that one race he won in Hockenheim last year. Because in my estimation, he saved Michael's season on that day; if Barrichello doesn't win that race, Häkkinen would have probably gone on to win the WDC. And you could go furthur and say that Ferrari would not have such an easy time of it this year since they would still have the pressure of 'not winning it'.

And while thanking Barrichello, Ferrari should also thank that nut with the sandwich board who traipsed onto the track...

[tifoso]

I voted for the "He is demoralized by Schumacher. So his preformances sink lower" option because an article in the June issue of Formula One Magazine confirmed an opinion I've been forming. The article was an interview with Eddie Irvine:

Michael Schumacher made a career out of destroying teammates. Irvine says the German's dominance can take away the confidence of even the most secure individual. As he explains: "You climb out of your car having done what you think is a decent lap, then you look at Michael's times and you think: '****, how do I compete with that?' Of course the answer is you don't -- you find your own level and stick to it..."

One of the Irishman's key attributes is a refusal to let outside events get to him...It was this attitude that saw him succeed as Schumacher's teammate where other failed. Instead of complaining he bided his time, and the team realized he had strengths where Michael had weaknesses. The best driver in the world is not necessarily the best tester; Schumacher can driver through problems that others have to confront and solve.

But Irvine says he would have had to be superhuman not to resent the dominance of a teammate who effectively ruins your chanes of going for the championship when you have a car capable of doing the job...But in the end he agrees he failed to hold back that resentment Barrichello is now suffering from.

I don't think Barrichello has the ability to block outside events from his emotions.

[KinetiK]

Barrichello drove well enough to get a podium this past weekend but that result can be directly traced to the strategy and not to the man's skill as a driver. Now, before you rip my head off, yes, I am quite aware that pit strategy is extremely important to get wins in F1. However, I'm not sure if aggressive pit strategy was required to merely get a driver a podium position!

Another first for Ferrari?

[bugeye]

I dunno, I'm a bit perplexed by his lack of form this year....I rate Rubens as a good driver.

1. I think MS is a MUCH better driver both in terms of consistency and raw speed.

2. Micheal gets better support (how much, I dunno, and he may work correspondingly harder as well)

3. Some cars seem to suit some drivers more, perhaps this car just doesn't suit Yoghurtinho.

4. He's a big baby (Rubens) and needs to toughen up a bit. Eddie bitched alot, but I think he was mentally tougher.

5. Ferrari is stickign with him cause who else are they gonna get...Hakkinen/Button/Trulli would be nice and would get on O.K. with Micheal, but everyone else seems like they'd be out for one reason or another...Why monkey with success...this driver combination is likely to give them three championships...if only one driver can win the WDC what do you need the other for beyond supporting the #1

[magic]

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=19329

[Thanassis]

OK, here's what I think:

When RB was driving for Stewart, nobody was expecting him to perform well, due to the car, which was a mediocre one. Therefore, Rubinho was relaxed without any pressure.

When RB signed at Ferrari, the expectations reached an all-time high, because he was driving for one of the two best teams of the Championship. Therefore, he kind of cracked under pressure.

[mhferrari]

Michael Schumacher

[SLA]

I think the entire Anti-Schumi party was happy about Rubens the saviour coming and exposing how overly overrated MS was...
They have had to seek other propaganda to put the blind Schumilovers in shame... (tractioncontrol being legalized would expose Schumi, too lucky, doesn´t have worthy teammates so can´t be proven...)

[molive]

In order to answer the question of the thread, let´s analize RB´s numbers this season:

10 races.

7 times in the top 6 (70%)

6 podiums (60%), being 2 2nd places and 3 3rd places.

Is that too bad considering who he is matched up against (and in what condition is this matching up happening)?

so, has he lived up to the expectations?

the question is: what did you expect?

[GasPed]

The real answer is: Johnny Herbert was overrated!!

Seriously, Rubens was thought to be god on wheels after his thrashing of Johnny at Stewart.

But then Johnny got whupped in an even worse way at Jag by Eddie Irvine. And we all know how well Eddie did at Ferrari.

So, to sum it all up:

- Johnny sucked (and please, no flames, I know he's a great guy, he's come back from serious injury, he's had bad luck, etc. etc.)
- Eddie and Rubens are better
- Michael is better than all of them.

Pretty simple, huh!

[magic]

ruby before ferrari;

f1 career

1993 16 F1 races (Jordan-Hart), 2 points

1994 16 races (Jordan-Hart), 19 points, 6th.

1995 17 races (Jordan-Peugoet), 11 points, 11th.

1996 16 races (Jordan-Peugeot), 14 points, 8th

1997 17 races (Stewart-Ford), 6 points, 14th.

1998 16 races (Stewart-Ford), 4 points, 12th

1999 16 races (Stewart-Ford), 21 points

'...With the Peugeot engine instead of the Hart in 1995, things could only get better, but they didn't. At this point, the pressure of the Brazilian medias (which saw in him future the star of Brazilian automobile sport) made his effects. Barrichello was regularly beaten by his team-mate (Eddie Irvine) in qualification and it is primarily the boiling nature of the Irishman (he has a tendency to break things) that explains that he finished behind Barrichello in the championship.....

Regularly looked-up by the large teams (Benetton, McLaren and Ferrari), Barrichello never made the jump, not finding the conditions (he was often promised with the second seat) satisfactory. Irvine leaving the team in 1996, Peugeot having improved the power and the reliability of the engine, much expected to see the first victory of Rubens in 1996. The season started well (popular a 2nd place in qualification in Brazil), but turned quickly bitter-sweet. Jordan-Peugeot did not manage to follow the rhythm of the large teams. No podium came in 1996. Eddie Jordan then restructured his team and Barrichello was not renewed for 1997.

With apparently no seat in 1997, Rubens was taught to make the jump to Indy for 1997. However, the new Stewart team was interested in him and Rubens took the chalenge to lead the new team in its first season. The unreliability of Stewart-Ford was the rule of 1997... except in Monaco, where Rubens Barrichello had a terrific race and finished second. Barrichello had a rather dissapointed 1998 season (4 points only),

Statistics
1 victory (Germany 2000), 3 pole-positions (Belgium 1994, France 1999 and Great-Britain 2000), 3 race fastest laps (Australia 2000, Germany 2000 and Belgium 2000)
Best championship position: 4th in 2000

Paul Rushworth, New Zealand, on rb;
Barrichello impressed many in 1993 and 1994. A stunning drive at Donington Park brought many accolades, as well as his pole at Spa in 1994. Rubens achieved very little in 1995; while scoring more points than Eddie Irvine, he was not held in high regard. Barrichello's attitude in the past with regards to testing has been the subject of much criticism.

f1reviewcom on rb;
Where Barrichello is likely to fail and where Irvine succeeded is in his psychological make-up.
The Brazillian is not as good at mind games as the Irishman and evidence of this came when the duo were paired at Jordan.


http://www.mcz.com/f1/96review.htm on rb;
Jordan got off to a spectacular start with Martin Brundle somersaulting his car in Australia (and then jogging back to the pits for his spare!) but that was one of the only times the gold cars were the centre of attention. The Peugeot engine provided plenty of power and was reasonably reliable, but the 196 chassis lacked grip through the corners, which no end of straight line speed could make up for. Rubens Barrichello was generally disappointing, often being outrun (and out-qualified) by Brundle.

[Mila]

in terms of out-right speed vis-a-vis his Ferrari teammate, for me, one factor stands out--right-foot braking.

[skylark68]

Rubens looked very uncomfortable at the press conference, if you ask me. Very uncomfortable. Strangely disquieting. Oddly ill at ease. He simply did not look right, beside the fact he looked like at dumbell with that #2 on his head. (By the way, he had a Bridgestone hat on at the Champagne fest - why didn't he wear that to the press conference?)

The guy is demoralized. How could you not be? These guys aren't without emotions.

When he won and cried, that was reflective of a giant monkey off his back. He got his victory - he was denied his next one because of MS.

I don't disagree with that decision as at some point every team will make it, except Williams, and Mclaren is skating around it like the Sword of Damocles was hanging around their neck.

He is a guy who can't be at the maximum at all times because if he is, he will be told to slow down to let MS pass. Ergo, he will not always be at peak efficiency. It is a mind game. MS is destroying him mentally. Ferrari is destroying him mentally. I agree with Irvine's observations and they are more so manifest with Rubens because of his affable nature.

Ferrari has tinkered with his strategies and fuel loads, all in a research game I suspect. He is a research tool and look for him to have more werid strategies, fuel loads, tire choices, etc., as ferrari will use him an experimental tool.

[baddog]

Originally posted by skylark68
When he won and cried, that was reflective of a giant monkey off his back. He got his victory - he was denied his next one because of MS.

what was this race he was going to win till he gave it up?

Shaun

[skylark68]

Originally posted by baddog
what was this race he was going to win till he gave it up?Shaun

Good point - I forgot he did not give up first in Austria. For some reason, I see him pulling over to let MS win and can't get that image out of my head. Weird.

I think, though, that he does not see victory on the horizon if MS is anywhere close and I think given his personality, that does play on his mind.

[baddog]

the stated position of ferrari is that rubens will not have to give up a win unless it is the dying moments of a close championship. he will have to give up lesser places to minimise damage.

I am NOT saying you necessarily have to beleive this would really happen but it is the stated position

Shaun

[AD]

I don't think that any driver on the grid can match MS in totally equal treatment. Michael is damn good.

RB is not as good as MS, however RBs situation is dire IMO. The worst feeling for a human being is feeling that he/she is not loved. That is the way RB feels at Ferrari:( How can he perform to his absolute maximum?

[skylark68]

I think Ferrari is doing the right thing, myself, by being so up front. I get irked when someone criticizes a team for orders and then their team does it two races later. I supsect these orders are more or less for the top teams with drivers on a WDC charge.

[klipywitz]

Sky,

I agree with your big post up there.

Although I believe RB can be as fast as MS in occasions, I dont think he can be faster.

I do think that MS is rutheless -- and that is a necessary quality if you want to win in F1 these days. He doesnt hesitate to tilt the balance to his favor by whatever means necessary -- we have all seen that (or should). I think RB is just a nice guy that just doesnt know how to work the pits to his favor. And that is something you must do (that pit power control mind game) to win in F1 nowadays.

Yes, these days he is nothing but a research tool as you said.

[senninha]

Originally posted by AD
I don't think that any driver on the grid can match MS in totally equal treatment. Michael is damn good.

RB is not as good as MS, however RBs situation is dire IMO. The worst feeling for a human being is feeling that he/she is not loved. That is the way RB feels at Ferrari:( How can he perform to his absolute maximum?

Agree.

I know MS re-builted almost a new team around him and the team has some debit with MS due car failure at Silverstone in 99 wich could have killed the german.

But, it's clear RB's is not loved the way he would like.Maybe the italians in the team want a italian driver ?
Due it he's not having the same sucess when he was with Jackie.

And I agree sometimes Rubens lost about car setups (and tyres) in some races. It can happen because (a) the car was builted to MS style or (b) he tests and lost time in order to support thenumber one driver strategy.

Rubens had one victory and 15 podiums (!!). the majority of his 2nd places were in races MS won. I think it's pretty decent.

If some people wanted a MS destroyer i understand the reason they are dissapointed.
But, despite bashing Rubens, how about bash their prefered driver, wich can't beat MS too.

I think is easier bash the driver you don't cheer for ...

[ebe]

If a team has MS as driver, it is hard to find someone who will be close to him.

I never believed the predictions in early 2000 when RB was said to outperform MS. EI was as fast as RB in te Jordan when the two where together.
So why should RB have been that much better ? Personally I always wanted to stay EI. Probably because of races like Suzuka 97 and Canada 99 and his constance in 99.

[berge]

how good must rubens feel when michael says a schumacher 1-2 with rubens third is the perfect result and hes very happy with it. gee michael, would'nt a perfect result be a ferrari 1-2, not a ferrari 1-3.

[Sean L]

Originally posted by senninha
And I agree sometimes Rubens lost about car setups (and tyres) in some races. It can happen because (a) the car was builted to MS style...

I wish this myth would disappear.

Rory Byrne was asked whether he designs a car to suit Schumacher:

No, at the conception phase, we first and foremost try to design the most competitive car possible. Later, the settings will make it more suited to the driving style of one driver or another. The important thing when designing a new car is to understand what the previous one's weak points were. And I must say Michael is very good at this. He helps us define exactly the areas that need to be improved upon and to sort out what is really good from what needs to be looked at. He also always has a whole load of ideas on how to go about it. And, in any case, he adores the technical side of things, loves to understand everything, to be in control. It's a considerable help for an engineer.

What is really amazing with him is this ability to get the most out of a car in just a dozen or so laps and then give you his verdict with worrying speed. For an engineer like me it's ideal -- I straight away know what my new car is capable of.

[davy boy]

Regarding Austria, if Reubens had any balls he'd have either taken 2nd himself and faced the music later, or just parked it and told Todt to "**** himself"

[Gemini]

Originally posted by berge
how good must rubens feel when michael says a schumacher 1-2 with rubens third is the perfect result and hes very happy with it. gee michael, would'nt a perfect result be a ferrari 1-2, not a ferrari 1-3.

would be, and MS proved that last year in Spain, when in injured car he did aggresively blocked Ralf, to let RB pass both of them and get Rubens ahead of RS,

[Viss1]

Originally posted by JayWay
Viss,

Where do you get the idea that Barrichello has had trouble finding proper setups?

Seems like after every qualifying session and/or race, he complains about the setup.

[senninha]

Originally posted by baddog


what was this race he was going to win till he gave it up?

Shaun

CANADA 2000!!!

[senninha]

Originally posted by Sean L
I wish this myth would disappear.

It's a shame my poor english, because a have a very good points from people like Piquet about cars tendency...

[JayWay]

Schuey still owes him.

[revvhead]

RB is just way off the mark and fading away.If you disagree on Setup , look at the french qualifying. what in the world were rubens and his car trying to do. I was quite impressed with his race, its the best ive seen from him in a long time. However, all the talk about ,matching Ms has gone out of the window. RB is struggling to hold on to his coat tails.
He seems to be mentally really weak at times. He drives really well at the start of most races and then starts to fade away, not just from Schumi, but hte rest of the pack as well.
Maybe he needs a break and some racing rehab or something. Hopefully the last podium will give him some confidence and drive.

[dan2k]

I think its very simple...

Because he can't convince him self that he is capable and can beat Michael Schumacher.
He keeps saying he can, but deep down inside he keeps thinking Micahel is better than him.

Confidence is plays a big role in F1 (life as well), if you don't have cofidence, then your behind the driver that has more confidence than you.
Remember how much confidence Ayrton Senna use to have?
He always thought he could beat anyone, and no one was unbeatable, and in the end he was the one that was unbeatable...

[ZZMS]

I think it is opposite

He convinced himself that he is as fast or faster than Michael but cannot prove it

[Dr.Raj]

Originally posted by dan2k
I think its very simple...

Because he can't convince him self that he is capable and can beat Michael Schumacher.
He keeps saying he can, but deep down inside he keeps thinking Micahel is better than him.

Confidence is plays a big role in F1 (life as well), if you don't have cofidence, then your behind the driver that has more confidence than you.
Remember how much confidence Ayrton Senna use to have?
He always thought he could beat anyone, and no one was unbeatable, and in the end he was the one that was unbeatable...

But what is RB to do if he simply isn't good enough to beat Michael. His confidence can't help that. Ayrton Senna was the best, confidence came naturally. That's why I think Eddie Irvine's approach was the best. He admitted to himself early on that MS is better than him, and that he was going to do his best and not try to compete with MS. That way his confidence wasn't hurt and he did a pretty good job. I think this was the right approach. To compete with MS you have to do your best, why not stop trying to compete with him and just do your best. That way your confidence isn't hurt and your performance is as good, and sometimes you may even beat MS. That competing with your teammate thing only works when their skill level is comparable.

[Monza Bambino]

Originally posted by HSJ
The answer is all four. Should be obvious. I never rated RB, so please don't start yell at me the old "but-RB-was-rated-highly-but-MS-is-god-and-trashed-him". Sure RB is good, like EI, and they are made look worse because of teamMS, but really the answer is all of the above options.

Pal the team MS approach you refer to is a proven strategy, clearly mediocre delusional drivers are chosen to complete the goal of WCC+WDC..

The results..
99 WCC
00 WCC+WDC
01 WCC+WDC AGAIN.

GO team Ferrari i support your strategy of success, leave failure to Jordan and Bar.