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Honda warming up?


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#1 smarty

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 06:40

Q: Where does Honda stand in terms of development?
Hosaka: ... It is only through racing that we will know exactly how many horsepower we are going to need to win. Just as soon as we know, we will immediately (!!!) modify our engines. Maybe it will be too much to ask for those changes in time for the Brazilian GP. Please give us a little more time ...

What a self-confidence! I'm impressed. This guys seem really determined.

Q: Is your relationship with BAR deeper than simply as its supplier of engines?
Hosaka: ... this time have a very good collaboration with BAR, not just as the supplier of an engine but also on the chassis side ...

I haven't known that before. We can expect a huge progress from Honda through the end of the year. It is already believed that Honda engine is app. 10 kg lighter than Mugen.

I believe Honda is warming up to confront Toyota next year.

[This message has been edited by smarty (edited 03-09-2000).]

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#2 Andy

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 06:57

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smarty, yes Honda have made a HUGE commitment to BAR. One of the first things they did after signing with BAR last year was get a BAR chassis sent to Japan ASAP. Not only have they been working their engine to BAR's Raynard but the reverse as well, insisting on certain changes in the chassis to help improve engine performance. This year's chassis is very much geared to the engine in houses, unlike last year where NOTHING matched!

I'm calling for a good year for BAR. A lot of development and it won't be a championship year for them but they will be in the points. I say BAR (team) finish about 6th overall in 2000. We'll see come October ;)

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#3 MN

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 15:06

Originally posted by Andy:
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....... I say BAR (team) finish about 6th overall in 2000. .......



Aim a bit higher Canadian!

Overall finish 3rd +/- 1 in 2000.
In next four years, Honda powered F1 cars -WILL- parade around the F1 circuits as they did in the past with F2(11 wins out of 12 races) and also F1(15 wins out of 16 races).

Here how it works.
Honda will select fine young engineers internally for the F1 program.
Probably late 20's to early 30's of ages who does -NOT- have any racing engine experience at all. This is very important point, fine engineers but -NO- racing engine experiences.
Those engineers are given four to five years to learn F1 engineering A_to_Z at F1 circuits.
After learning it in the highest racing environment possible in the world with fine F1 pilots for four years, five years at most, they WILL become experts.
(Of course Honda Tokyo has strong backup team there to support them to achieve it.)
Now, this is the most unique part of Honda thinking..... Once you become expert, then you will loose something very important that is what Honda is always looking for...
That is "creativity", or "creative thinking". Honda knows that human has limit. If you become an expert in one field, then your thinking pattern or ideas are somehow fixed and not as creative as someone who has never done it befor. Then F1 engin development process will slow down or come to stop there.
Honda doesn't punish failures they will analyze the situation and find out why it failed then they just simply don't repeat same mistake, Honda engineers are encouraged to try new things without fear of failure.

Those whom now has four to five years experience and became expert will be reassigned to different projects such as production car design and put their F1 engineering knowlidge into their production car designs, such as Civic.


P.S. Sorry so many miss spellings and grammar errors. Hope Mr. Spelling/Grammar Prod is not around.........

[This message has been edited by MN (edited 03-10-2000).]

#4 desmo

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 15:56

Looking at Jaques' practice times today it appears we may have underestimated the BAR-Honda. If they are as fast as they seem already, watch out later in the season!

#5 RAD

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 21:42

Practice times can really distort reality, so I should be very careful here.

Honda can make the best engine. They just might devour Mercedes, BMW, and Ford. It took Mercedes four years to notch a F1 win, Honda/BAR will win one this year. They have a great driver in JAX as well, so the skys the limit for BAR.

I personally can't wait to see Honda duking it out with Ferrari (JV vs. MS). Back in the late 80's when Honda ruled, the Ferraris where mid-runners, so it will be gratifying to watch them go at it now with Ferrari on /or near the top.

When Toyota enters, they can look for years of problems. It will be very tough for them to run with the more developed engines. Still, I wish them luck.

What a season this will be, full of surprises
and great racing.

#6 bigblue

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 23:12

never underestimate Honda. I believe they will be at the sharp end within 2 years. Maybe sooner. Just hope they don't abandon Jordan.

#7 Andy

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Posted 10 March 2000 - 23:20

For 2000, if BAR can be in the top 10 I'd be exstatic! I do have higher aspirations for them this year but would like to see at least 1 race under their belt first to make sure they really have the reliability issue under control.

Yes, Honda takes their racing VERY seriously as are they taking the BAR team seriously too. They know what they have driver-wise in Villeneuve and therefore know it is up to them to give him the machinery to do the job.

O.K., I'll go WAAAAY out on a limb here and say we'll see JAX on the podium BEFORE the Canadian GP this year. :cool: How's that for a dedicated CANADIAN?!  ;) Anyone have any spare 'nuts' they'd like to wager on that statement??

[This message has been edited by Andy (edited 03-10-2000).]

#8 John

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Posted 11 March 2000 - 00:38

It should be no surprise to anyone that BAR would improve their midfield position from last year. If Jag/Stewart progress at the same rate, and Jordon also, then BAR should land right behind them or with them just by using the Honda engine. Honda already have the know-how (from Mugen-Honda specs) so they are not going into modern F1 "cold" like BMW.

The real tell-tale sign is to see if the rest of the chassis and gearbox can match the Honda powerplant performance over the race distance. They did it in testing over the winter, lets see what they can do in a race.

My guess is still constuctors top 6 for BAR. Likely 5th. I don't think they will exceed Jordon or Jag over the course of this year.

#9 PDA

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Posted 11 March 2000 - 01:36

IF BAR have achieved good reliability, then there is a very good chance they will have podium finishes before Canada. typically, ten or eleven cars break in the early races each year, and given that they seem to be starting even with the bunch behind Mac/Ferrari, then a podium is not unresonable. I anticipate that they will have significantly more power by Imola, so one can hope that they might just join the exclusive club at the front. having JV who, IMO, is one of the top three drivers will do them no harm either. Also watch Zonta, he is definitely better than a lot of people give him credit for.

#10 MN

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Posted 11 March 2000 - 05:57

Originally posted by Andy:

..... O.K., I'll go WAAAAY out on a limb here and say we'll see JAX on the podium BEFORE the Canadian GP this year. :cool: How's that for a dedicated CANADIAN?!  ;)

[This message has been edited by Andy (edited 03-10-2000).]



Come on Andy, told you to aim a bit higher !!!!!

Befor Apr/23 British Grand Prix, JV will be on the podium !!!!!
Honda's base unit sounds good so far. You will be surprised how quick they make changes if it's necessary. Make a minor chenge request with improvement in the morning, same night they will be bench marking the new engine.
Make a call to Tokyo from anywhere in the world for thechnical assistance, they will stay on the phone all night long if it's necessary.
(It happened befor, engineers at a circuit had a technical difficulty, driver and engineer called Tokyo to discuss problem, the driver went to bed because it was Saturday evening and he needed rest befor the race, following morning the same engineer was still on the phone!)
I'm not too sure whether or not Honda still uses NGK spark plug but if they do, NGK engineers will provide same support.

MN(A Japanese living in Canada)


[This message has been edited by MN (edited 03-10-2000).]