35 replies to this topic

[Winegod]

First, I will not watch Saturday's Pepsi 400. I have tuned in for a few Nascar races since DE died in February (really only Bristol and Sears Point).

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you guys think the ramifications would be if say a Jeff Gordon or other NASCAR star/champion crashes during the race and dies. Now clearly no one hopes that will happen. But since NASCAR mandated no changes (in fact they seemed to follow a policy of hush-hush and business as usual), if something tragic would happen they would be doubly accountable. Afterall, the only effect of DE death is that NASCAR has been made richer and more famous (notoriety slash popularity). In fact, I find it disgusting that DE's legacy--things that have occurred since the crash--is limited to the 3-finger salute and lap of silence.

[Zawed]

Hope you have'nt jinxed Jeff with this post...were you touching wood?

[KinetiK]

He better not have been touching my wood, that's for sure.

Damn man, could you please change the subject? In all seriousness, it's a pretty tasteless topic to me. I didn't see the "IF" and it frightened me pretty badly...

[orange]

Agree with KinetiK.
Seems like one of those post which is meant to attract the (m)ass than the class.

[f1racer]

[917k]

Pathetic post.

Engage brain,post.

Not the other way around.

[Gudrun]

I'm sorry to have looked into this thread.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Don't do that again

[Ross Stonefeld]

Grow up guys. Yeah he didnt word the topic perfectly but so what, concentrate on the subject, not the tag line

[Winegod]

I agree. My mistake. If the administrator could change the title of the thread to "If a Nascar driver dies at Daytona on July 7th", it would be better.

[se7en_24]

Thats sick.... I scanned over the topics and saw that

[chester316]

[Winegod]

Jeez!

I guess none of you are Dale Jarrett fans?


;)

[Locai]

Jeez, that's a morbid thought. It would quite possibly be the end of NASCAR. I don't think anybody wants to consider it.

By the way, even though the rules of NASCAR concerning safety haven't changed, there are a lot more drivers wearing the HANS device now. The drivers (at least the smart ones) decided not to wait for NASCAR to do something.

[Newtsche]

It would be interpreted as a sign from above, either Dale or the big guy himself, and yet more proof of NASCAR's transcendency.

[FordPrefect]

For an article on how the families deal with death I suggest you read this long, but excellent article.

http://www.thatsraci...7osfamilies.htm

[Williams]

FordPrefect thanks for reference to the article. The amazing part was how in past fatal accidents the remains of the vehicle was simply turned over to the owner, or, in one case, pieces of it removed and given to the grief-stricken family as a memorial, instead of retaining the wreckage for an investigation.

[Dudley]

Absolutely nothing. Nascar would wriggle out of it like they have with all the other deaths, then blame it on the seatbelts or anything else that wasn't them.

If it was a champion driver they'd spend the year pretending to care with meanlingless gestures like lap in silence.

If it was a newbie they'd just ignore it because hell, who cares (Petty, Irwin etc)

[mono-posto]

Originally posted by Locai
I don't think anybody wants to consider it.

I think that's the big problem with NASCAR. They don't want to consider it. They should. Then they should take whatever appropriate steps are needed to prevent what it is they've been considering. The only thing that they've even considered considering, is how many more shares of Budweiser Bill France can buy with the increased revenues since Earnhardts death. But since no one in the orginazation has higher than a high school equivilent, the numbers were to staggering and they've decided not to even consider that.

Morbid maybe...but that's the way it looks to me.

[LoxyLotus]

NASCAR has done it again!
Just like pro wrestling, it's pre-programed and predictable.
Dale Earnhardt, Jr wins at the track his dad died at.
Who would of thunk it? Jeez, how fake can racing get!

[Goggles]

Here's another article on NASCAR from the Washington Post. Probably will only last a couple of days I reckon...

http://www.washingto...0-2001Jul6.html

This report intimates that NASCAR is fixed - all for the sake of the almighty buck. And seeing the results of the Pepsi 400 (Dale Earnhardt Jr. won the race @ the track where his father was killed), I would not in the least bit be surprised, especially since this was NBC's first broadcast of the sport.

[312 PB]

Originally posted by LoxyLotus
NASCAR has done it again!
Just like pro wrestling, it's pre-programed and predictable.
Dale Earnhardt, Jr wins at the track his dad died at.
Who would of thunk it? Jeez, how fake can racing get!

of course the question is
do the fans care if real or staged ?

junior wins

tomorrow nascar fan wakes up still drunk
f1 fan friend calls up
asking if staged outcome
nascar fan says so what ?

then quote announcer saying jr
was 3/4 throttle til last 8 laps

[Newtsche]

Goggles,
Thanks for the great link. Should I hate NASCAR more or the fans that put up with this crap? I feel bad for DEjr, he seems like one of the better guys in the series, and last night's race doesn't pass the smell test.

[Ali_G]

Well this just shows that the whole Series is a complete sham.

1. For a start the cars are pracitcally Bullet Proof. Hence the winner can be pre chosen without him being done with mech failure.

2. How the hell can 50 year old men keep going agains't 0 year olds while in F1 teh drivers can't match teh new people by the time they reach 35.

3. That win just bloody proves.

its just a complete scam to make money

Niall

[Williams]

Originally posted by Newtsche
Goggles,
Thanks for the great link. Should I hate NASCAR more or the fans that put up with this crap? I feel bad for DEjr, he seems like one of the better guys in the series, and last night's race doesn't pass the smell test.

The fans will just tune in whatever NASCAR gives them, since, given the large audience of NASCAR, you have to figure that a large proportion are uninterested in the the inner workings of the sport, and just watch for the spectacle. NASCAR is responsible for the integrity of the sport, not the fans, IMO.

[Ali_G]

i just read through the article.

i have never seen so much crap in my life. I can't believe that NASCAR are getting away with such lapse safety conditions.

What got me was teh bit at the end about Bodine.

Getting reprimanded while trying to improve safety conditions.

That would never happen in any other racing series in the world.

Niall

[Williams]

Originally posted by Ali_G
i just read through the article.

i have never seen so much crap in my life. I can't believe that NASCAR are getting away with such lapse safety conditions.

What got me was teh bit at the end about Bodine.

Getting reprimanded while trying to improve safety conditions.

That would never happen in any other racing series in the world.

Niall

Niall NASCAR is not the only motorsports governing body with a bad attititude towards drivers' safety concerns. I don't believe that the GPDA has ever been recognized as an official body by the FIA, though that's not exactly the same as reprimanding someone for trying to improve safety.

The other item in that article I found a bit disturbing is that drivers that talk about safety issues tend to have their cars scrutinized a lot closer at races.

[leegle]

That article Ford Prefect has posted the link for is well worth reading. The legacy of the tragedies is an eye opener and a reminder that it is not just the one who dies who suffers.

[John B]

Before Dale Sr. died in the Daytona 500, his team cars had established that they were dominant at the track. Look at Waltrip's performances - his first year team has done nothing aside from Daytona, in fact his team has had personnel changes, but he has a 1st and 2nd at DIS, obvious proof that the team has a great advantage here. Rarely do 2 cars simply drive away from the pack in a restrictor race, but it happened this February. Before his crash Dale Sr was overheard on the radio as being frustrated that his cars just left the rest of the field including himself behind. So it's not really a surprise that they came back and finished 1-2 at the same track a few months later. Dale Jr did get some "help" in that his teammate Waltrip protected him, and as MW said on TV last night "had no desire to pass Dale," which is perfectly acceptable among teammates.

NASCAR doesn't do everything perfectly - the business with the wrecked cars being destroyed or given away is head-shaking material (stuck throttles may have originated the earlier crashes at New Hampshire, but not explained how the impact killed the drivers, and had Petty or Irwin's crash been investigated as thoroughly as DE's it could have advanced the safety timetable by months).

There's a similar thread over in Nostalgia right now.

[Ali_G]

As Williams has pointed out this scrutineering process is somewhat unbelieveable if this reporter is telling the truth. For the owener to hold a grudge agains't certain drivers and then to set them up so they have a disadvanatge is unbelieveaable.

Worse than that is when one team gets an advantage. I think Ford got some sort of advantage with new aero bits last year. The NASCAR officials just threw a bigger resrictor flap on the Ford than on the other cars to equal it up.

Disgraceful. Why the hell are these companies producing cars for this champsionship if inovation in anyway is frowned upon and hence no company can produce a beter car than another. ?

Niall

[Williams]

Disgraceful. Why the hell are these companies producing cars for this champsionship if inovation in anyway is frowned upon and hence no company can produce a beter car than another. ?

It would be cheaper and easier to go to a one-make series, then let Ford, Chevy etc. pay to stick their names on the sides of the car, like every other sponsor. The car manufacturer has gotten to be irrelevent to the series, in fact they are just getting in the way of the goals of the series.

[HouseOfDesai]

NASCAR is not a sport, its entertainment, they use car wrecks as a selling point for there sport. What’s even worse is the drivers go along with it, I was watching a bit of it yesterday to see what they would say about DE, and I heard one of the drivers say he wasn’t sure if the HANS device would help or hurt in a car wreck (I believe this is what I heard) and I was really amazed and quite disgusted with what NASCAR dose, hell they still allow open faced helmets.

[Ali_G]

Originally posted by Williams


It would be cheaper and easier to go to a one-make series, then let Ford, Chevy etc. pay to stick their names on the sides of the car, like every other sponsor. The car manufacturer has gotten to be irrelevent to the series, in fact they are just getting in the way of the goals of the series.

Essentially you can't call this a racing series. The primary purpose of this sport is to create money. i am pitty sure F1 is more about racing than any one other factor.

originally posted by HouseOfDesai

NASCAR is not a sport, its entertainment, they use car wrecks as a selling point for there sport. What’s even worse is the drivers go along with it, I was watching a bit of it yesterday to see what they would say about DE, and I heard one of the drivers say he wasn’t sure if the HANS device would help or hurt in a car wreck (I believe this is what I heard) and I was really amazed and quite disgusted with what NASCAR dose, hell they still allow open faced helmets.

I still cannot believe that NASCAR is so lapse in its safety standards. i hear a lot of the drivers refuse to wear the HANS device. For what reason. Wasn't DE not wearing one when he died.

What i cannot nderstand is how this series can get away with it. The Federal Government has to see that with the number of deaths is NASCAR, that something is drastically wrong. F1 has faster speeds yet a death hasn't occured since 94.

Even NASCAR's reaction to DE's death is pathetic. After 94 the FIA tried everything to make the sport safer. Chicanes, new restrictions on cars ,everything. they even put a ridiculous chicane through eau Rouge to slow things down.

What have NASCAR doen yet. nothing. The cars are essentially a death trap. no crumple zones. These are the basis for driver safety in a crash scenario.

Shame on you.

Niall

[John B]

Originally posted by Williams


It would be cheaper and easier to go to a one-make series, then let Ford, Chevy etc. pay to stick their names on the sides of the car, like every other sponsor. The car manufacturer has gotten to be irrelevent to the series, in fact they are just getting in the way of the goals of the series.

Brand identity is one of the features which make the series popular. Look how people reacted whenever Ferrari pulling out of F1 used to be mentioned. Dodge's return to racing this year has received extensive media coverage, and their ads are visible on TV and elsewhere. Many fans identify with brands; I've personally rooted for Pontiac teams because we used to have them in the family as a relative was involved in sales.

I disagree with in-season rules changes. If a particular car in any league dominates a year or two, that's not too big a deal for me as we remember those cars and it makes others work to catch up. The races were boring, but I liked watching the Williams of 92-93.

[Winegod]

Three years ago in September, I visited the Daytona Speedway. I took a tour of the facilities. Then I realized that the Richard Petty drive-along thing was there!!! Believe it or not, but for 125 bucks I got three laps in a full-blown stock car. The banked turns were insane: it felt like I was in a fishbowl. I swear anyone who wastes their money on drugs for a 'high' needs to consider jumping into the passenger seat of a stock car.

Oh.
And I had a choice of four cars: The 24, 3, 6, and Petty car. Guess which one I chose...

Yup, and I got to wear an open-face helmet too.

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by Williams


It would be cheaper and easier to go to a one-make series, then let Ford, Chevy etc. pay to stick their names on the sides of the car, like every other sponsor. The car manufacturer has gotten to be irrelevent to the series, in fact they are just getting in the way of the goals of the series.

Along these lines NASCAR does want to eventually go to a single
NASCAR approved body, that will be distinguished from one another
by the decals that represent the headlights, grill etc. etc.
This way any aero advantage that actual body shapes will be
negated, hence no more race to race "keep 'em even" tinkering.


Just read the link.

Maybe "The Rock" or "Stone Cold" should take up racecar drivin'