245 replies to this topic

[Peter Darley]

And lets' not even s'tart on apo'strophe's.

DC,N

Don't get me going on this subject ! Am proof reading at the moment and know exactly how Doug feels

[Tony Matthews]

Don't get me going on this subject ! Am proof reading at the moment and know exactly how Doug feels

Surely that's feel's.

[kayemod]

Surely that's feel's.

Only if Doug was working on Feel Heel's book at the time.

[Doug Nye]

Surely that's feel's.

Both Matthew's and Kayemod are right - obviou's lee. Or is this jus't getting s'illy?

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 11 May 2009 - 14:22.

[Tony Matthews]

Both Matthew's and Kayemod are right - obviou's lee. Or is this jus't getting s'illy?

DCN

Cheer's Doug!

[Catalina Park]

How true that is and it makes us a might judgmental as well! My dumb-ass sister, for instance, never learned "... i before e except after c, or when sounded like a as in neighbor and weigh."



Michael Lawrence is a great and learned journalist, educated, knowledgeable and not prone to mistakes, and I'm certain that the errors in publication of his works come from the publishing process and not the reporting.

Having been a journalist for almost 40 years, it is a damned demanding and intricate profession, as we all know.

Mistakes happen. Be happy you know the difference!

Mike Lawrence may be a great and learned journalist but he knows nothing about cars. He drops some clangers when it comes to technical details. Like when Alfa changed from a V12 to a flat 12.

[Frank Verplanken]

Issue #128 of the French Sport-Auto (Sep 1972) has one of those funny typos : the calendar for Septembre includes a SCCA race on the 17th - "Circuit du Bedesignated"

[Barry Boor]

[Barry Boor]

Thanks to Steve Wilkinson, I now have a copy of '100 Years of Grand Prix' by Trevor Legate. Best bit in it is a picture of my Mum, Dad and me at the 1965 Monaco Grand Prix....

However, even a quick glance through the book has caused me to notice three obvious mistakes.

There is a lovely picture of a 1967 Eagle at the French Grand Prix with accompanying text informing how Dan Gurney had hoped to follow up his Belgian Grand Prix win with more success etc, etc, etc. But at no time does it mention that the picture is actually... Bruce McLaren in the other Eagle.

Apparently, according to the text, the grid for the 1951 Spanish Grand Prix was "...alternated between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo over the first eight places, followed by three Sunbeam Talbots...." REALLY?

Then there is a lovely driver group photo from the 1968 German Grand Prix which has a driver quoted as being Richard Attwood when I am pretty sure it is Silvio Moser.

Lord knows how many more errors there are.

[Tim Murray]

Apparently, according to the text, the grid for the 1951 Spanish Grand Prix was "...alternated between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo over the first eight places, followed by three Sunbeam Talbots...." REALLY?

And they weren't even Lago-Talbots, but Gordinis in the hands of Manzon, Simon and Trintignant.

[Barry Boor]

I know that most of us are boring old anoraks but errors like the one Tim has picked up on are, to my mind, totally inexcusable.

[Graham Gauld]

If you are talking about translations my favourite was in the regulations for the Alpine Rally around 1964 where, amongst the instructions translated into English, it gave details about the start at Nice. " Competitors will defile themselves along the promenade and during the event will relieve each other at each others conveniencies"

[D-Type]

Well, thanks to TNF a lot of my books now have marginal notes and corrections. I suppose that has reduced their resale value.

[2F-001]

"Mallory Park: fifty years at the friendly circuit" (Gareth Rogers, pub. Tempus) includes a front-row startline picture from the 1972 F2 meeting. The drivers are identified as Birrel, Descarolo and Petersen.

[f1steveuk]

I have suffered at the hands of bad editing, and seen my stuff go out with errors, ( e.g. "he was by now nearly forty six" edited to, "he was now 46", because then it ended on a page), and it's gutting, why? Because mistakes like this, and captions describing Dan Gurney, but showing Bruce McLaren etc, are informing a new generation incorrectly. How would anyone feel if their child came home from school to be told, "Yuri Gargarin was the first man on the moon, I know, because the teacher told me so". Grammer, sometimes I can live with it, but inaccuracy, NEVER!!!

My favourite pet hate? "Ultimate means best, I know, my teacher told me" (quite what that makes penultimate and anti-penultimate, well!)

Edited by f1steveuk, 27 August 2009 - 07:01.

[Roger Clark]

Thanks to Steve Wilkinson, I now have a copy of '100 Years of Grand Prix' by Trevor Legate. Best bit in it is a picture of my Mum, Dad and me at the 1965 Monaco Grand Prix....

However, even a quick glance through the book has caused me to notice three obvious mistakes.

There is a lovely picture of a 1967 Eagle at the French Grand Prix with accompanying text informing how Dan Gurney had hoped to follow up his Belgian Grand Prix win with more success etc, etc, etc. But at no time does it mention that the picture is actually... Bruce McLaren in the other Eagle.

Apparently, according to the text, the grid for the 1951 Spanish Grand Prix was "...alternated between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo over the first eight places, followed by three Sunbeam Talbots...." REALLY?

Then there is a lovely driver group photo from the 1968 German Grand Prix which has a driver quoted as being Richard Attwood when I am pretty sure it is Silvio Moser.

Lord knows how many more errors there are.

Is the picture of your Mum, Dad and you correctly captioned?

[Barry Boor]

Yes.

[Catalina Park]

In the recent book about Tony Gaze called "Almost Unknown" by Stewart Wilson there is mention of a French Ferrari driver called Richard Trintignant.

[2F-001]

Steady on there, Steve! "Ultimate" has a variety of meanings, depending whether used as an adjective or a noun, that are deemed acceptable by OUP (and, presumably, by the OED) - such as coming at the end of a sequence, most extreme (figuratively as well as literally), best or even fundamental or basic.
The "best" use seems to be so commonly-used now that, perhaps, some do not know of its use for "last" or "final".
Obviously the variant "penultimate" is only really applicable to the first meaning.

But surely preceding penultimate would be "antepenultimate" (one word), not "anti-"?

Edited by 2F-001, 27 August 2009 - 08:27.

[Kingsleyrob]

Grammer, sometimes I can live with it, but inaccuracy, NEVER!!!

That's a cracker Steve!!!

I thought he was great in Frasier.

Rob

[Tony Matthews]

That's a cracker Steve!!!

I thought he was great in Frasier.

Rob

Yeh, but who is Ian Curracy?

[2F-001]

Gosh, I didn't spot that. Mind you, pedantry is a high horse; I know, I've been on it and fallen off more than once!

Edited by 2F-001, 27 August 2009 - 08:38.

[f1steveuk]

I toyed with the idea of "gramma and spolling", honest!!! Ante, as in ante-chamber, jeez, and I wright/right/write books. I'll get me coat.....

[2F-001]

I wasn't "having a go" Steve - a part of my work involves writing and editing and I know that the unforced errors are the most painful!

I just think it's interesting that, in many circumstances, a word like ultimate used in the meaning you and I probably know best, would quite possibly be misinterpreted. Which annoys me.
Similarly, words like celibate, disinterested or discrete (although complicated by misspelling for discreet) can scarcely be used without fear of being misconstrued or thought to have made a mistake!

Edited by 2F-001, 27 August 2009 - 09:09.

[f1steveuk]

No no, I was amused and saw exactly what you meant.

The mistakes that annoy are the avoidable ones. Once a publisher has asked you to re-read the same manuscript for the 'umpteenth' time, I am sure you get "word blind", and you miss things yourself.

My big gripe with "ultimate" for example, is that the powers that be changed the dictionary definition to fit the missuse. That's not right!

Heard on the BBC last night, "the beacons were lighted" I prefer lit!!! And the other day I was asked to "de-plane", whatever that means!

Edited by f1steveuk, 27 August 2009 - 09:14.

[Catalina Park]

And the other day I was asked to "de-plane", whatever that means!

de-plane, de-plane....

[2F-001]

I've not looked into the etymology of ultimate, but I wonder if the qualitative uses have grown out of the idea of the sequence that is being terminated being a progression, development or steady improvement - hence "the last word", although that can be pejorative too. I suppose the lexicographers tread an unclear path between maintaining the established and reflecting common and changing usage. If they ignore the latter too much, they become less regarded and so lose their 'authority'. But I'm essentially with you, I prefer the established along with a small dose of very gradual change. (Battle cry: "What do we want?" "Gradual change!" "When do we want it?" "In due course!")

Like you, I find that successive re-reads can be unhelpful unless there is a period of time between them. And proof-reading on screen is, I find, most unreliable if it's something I have written, designed or previously edited - but then, most of my work is destined for the printed page so that is what I'm used to.

I refuse to de-plane or de-train: I'll sit there until they throw me off! Speaking of which, we'll probably get thrown off of this thread before much longer!

[Tony Matthews]

I refuse to de-plane or de-train: I'll sit there until they throw me off! Speaking of which, we'll probably get thrown off of this thread before much longer!

Oi! You! De-thread, now!

[2F-001]

Does de-threading require a helicoil or rivnut of some kind to fix?

[f1steveuk]

I think from now on I'll write what I want, how I want, and call it "abstract".

Back on thread....

Another thing that puzzles me is that when publishing a specialist book, motorsport, say a particular car constructor, the publishers never seem to employ a proof reader that knows the subject, who can point out simple things that any couch expert would know, BEFORE said work reaches the shelf. Or is that too simple?

There, I've re-threaded!

[Vitesse2]

Another thing that puzzles me is that when publishing a specialist book, motorsport, say a particular car constructor, the publishers never seem to employ a proof reader that knows the subject, who can point out simple things that any couch expert would know, BEFORE said work reaches the shelf. Or is that too simple?

I'd say that was more the editor's job, Steve. Although ideally the proof-reader should have some knowledge in order to avoid "Sterling Moss", "Mike Hawthorne" and "Ferarri" slipping through the net.

See also my comments here:

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=3249741

A proof-reader shouldn't be expected to pick that sort of thing up, but whoever edited it should have done.

Edited by Vitesse2, 27 August 2009 - 10:59.

[Tony Matthews]

Does de-threading require a helicoil or rivnut of some kind to fix?

I've just spent about an hour on the internet trying to source 4mm 4-pronged T-nuts or threaded inserts for use in timber, helicoils or rivnuts would be easier to find!

[Tony Matthews]

Another thing that puzzles me is that when publishing a specialist book, motorsport, say a particular car constructor, the publishers never seem to employ a proof reader that knows the subject, who can point out simple things that any couch expert would know, BEFORE said work reaches the shelf. Or is that too simple?

There, I've re-threaded!

It doesn't just apply to publishing, I am puzzled by the number of large, important foreign companies that produce technical brochures, leaflets and instruction manuals containing howlers, which could so easily be corrected by a quick edit by a native English speaker with a passing knowledge of the subject. Perhaps I should have offered my services all those years ago when I considered it...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 27 August 2009 - 11:48.

[f1steveuk]

It doesn't just apply to publishing, I am puzzled by the number of large, important foreign companies that produce technical brochures, leaflets and instruction manuals containing howlers, which could so easily be corrected by a quick edit by a native English speaker with a passing knowledge of the subject. Perhaps I should have offered my services all those years ago when I considered it...

Aren't they called "tee nuts", seriously, I brought some in France for decking!

http://www.ecplaza.n...s4_pronged.html

Edited by f1steveuk, 27 August 2009 - 12:51.

[Tony Matthews]

Aren't they called "tee nuts", seriously, I brought some in France for decking!

http://www.ecplaza.n...s4_pronged.html

'T' or Tee, normally 'T', and what I want is 4mm, the normal smallest is 6mm, I have loads of them, but - biggest problem, I only need 24, I could live with a hundred, but not 1000, or in the case of ecplaza, a pallet-load! I'm re-building some early Ernest Race chairs, and can't change the machine-screw size. Thanks.

[f1steveuk]

We way ot again! Got mine from a furniture maker, let me take a handful!

[2F-001]

Tony -

Not clear on the particular application you have in mind or the wood type in question, but here are some threaded inserts for wood that may be of interest.
http://www.modelfixi...ded_inserts.htm

(These are in a zinc alloy I think, made for lightness - you might be wanting steel for M4s in furniture, not sure - I've noticed the reference to Ernest Race - but quantity doesn't look to be a problem.)

Edited by 2F-001, 28 August 2009 - 07:01.

[Tony Matthews]

Tony -

Not clear on the particular application you have in mind or the wood type in question, but here are some threaded inserts for wood that may be of interest.
http://www.modelfixi...ded_inserts.htm

Thank you, 2F, I think those will do the trick. I already have 6mm inserts for the seat panels, and the original fasteners for the backs were a type of large-headed, but only 4mm thread, 'rivnut-for-wood', as there was a choice of non-upholstered back, so the look of the fasteners was important.The backs were formed of a wierd type of early chipboard, faced with thin mahogany veneers, curved to fit your back, but they are sad, and impossible to repair, so I've made a jig to mould new backs from three layers of 3mm ply - 4mm inserts, 10mm long with 1mm ground off before or after after assembly will be fine! There were six of these 1948 classic chairs, but two were snaffled by a passing itinerant scrap-metal dealer some years ago, so I'm looking for two more!

What was this thread about? Sorry to be so OT.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 28 August 2009 - 07:46.

[2F-001]

Ok - good luck with that!

For small quantities of large-headed stainless fasteners (and much else) take a look at
http://www.stagonset...CFYEI3godoWx4ew
really nice, quick company to deal with.

That's a nice project you have there - your rebuiding with ply should make a rather better-than-original item.
There is a dealer in classic furniture West London - I bought an Aeron there and looked at a pair of Barcelona chairs but couldn't afford them.
I vaguely recall seeing some Ernest Race in there - not certain - but I imagine they would be fairly pricey from a seller who knows what they are.

I hope this flagrant thread-diversion might be excused in the name of fostering the community spirit; and it is nostalgia of a sort...


Does anyone here have the Lotus reclined chair/couch or other non-automotive Lotus items?

Edited by 2F-001, 28 August 2009 - 08:09.

[f1steveuk]

Maybe we should have discussed that under a thread on the Protos car??!!

[2F-001]

Way-hey! And maybe Marcos, Nathan(?) too! And McLaren's Mallite...

[kayemod]

Maybe we should have discussed that under a thread on the Protos car??!!

Or maybe even by PMs.

I'm as guilty of thread hijack as anyone here, but really chaps!

[f1steveuk]

I'll get me coat..........................

[Tony Matthews]

Ok - good luck with that!



That's a nice project you have there - your rebuiding with ply should make a rather better-than-original item.
There is a dealer in classic furniture West London - I bought an Aeron there and looked at a pair of Barcelona chairs but couldn't afford them.
I vaguely recall seeing some Ernest Race in there - not certain - but I imagine they would be fairly pricey from a seller who knows what they are.

I hope this flagrant thread-diversion might be excused in the name of fostering the community spirit; and it is nostalgia of a sort...


Does anyone here have the Lotus reclined chair/couch or other non-automotive Lotus items?

Thanks for pointing me towards stagonset.co.uk - my 'favourites' list is bulging!

I really like the original mesh Aeron chair, and nearly bought one before I stopped sitting at a desk all the time, but still use my Hille Supporto. I am surprised by the cost of these items now - the Race BA3 is now about £460 basic per chair, I should think my parents probably paid £30 or less for six in the early fifties, and the design hasn't changed! Even my Hille, bought about ten years ago, has doubled to £860-odd.

The Barcelona is another design that has proved to be a true classic, also out of my league, for originals certainly. I'm tempted by a pair of Panton stackers if I can't find two BA3's, or I could re-build a set of tired Plia folders, but that would be a task!

I remember some fibreglass seats, bulbous and brightly coloured, at Lotus Components when they were at Cheshunt - I think it was an attempt at diversifying, I'm sure others know more about that.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 28 August 2009 - 09:19.

[Tony Matthews]

Or maybe even by PMs.

I'm as guilty of thread hijack as anyone here, but really chaps!

You are quite right, Rob, I'll shut up! I just get carried away.. or should be.

[2F-001]

Indeed, I apologize. I had actually forgotten what this thread was about and, consequently, didn't realize just how far off-topic we had strayed...
I"ll PM you, Tony, after the weekend. Off now for a rare weekend-day off to fettle my Caterham.

And so, back to errors and literals...