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Micron Exhausts
#1
Posted 24 July 2001 - 21:50
The headers (in conjunction with a race end-can) are yielding about 10-15% power increases on the new Suzuki GSX-R 1000, for which no other can manufacturer has even seen an increase at all.
The technology seems to work, and the potential is quite exciting, to my mind at least.
Can anyone tell me if this method is used in F1, and if not, why not?
#3
Posted 25 July 2001 - 00:01
I read some of a book once on F1 car construction. The focus of the book was a Bennetton F1 car (if I remember correctly) from the 90's. They were welding tube bends together to form the header. From the welded seams appearing on headers nowadays, on an F1 car, I would assume that the construction method has not changed.
#4
Posted 25 July 2001 - 01:33
Hydroforming would be perfect for forming three-dimensional bends in tubular exhausts. Unfortunately, this is another example of how low-volume F1 usages do not merit expensive tooling investments.
Cory
#5
Posted 25 July 2001 - 21:01
oh, and I am sure that Micron are the first to offer it to the masses
![:confused:](https://forums.autosport.com/public/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)
#6
Posted 25 July 2001 - 21:15
#7
Posted 25 July 2001 - 22:12
Even mandrel bent tubes will have a thinner wall on the outside of the bend. The do keep their diameter and shape however to a high degree.
I believe that the latest Corvette exhaust has some hydroformed pieces. I think Borla makes it, but I'm not positive. Some sections of production truck frames, etc have been produced by hydroforming.
I'm not an expert on hydroforming, but I also believe that there are some limits on what kind of crazy bends and whatnot that you can do. It seems like hydroforming is utilized when complex variations in some sort of tubular cross section are needed.
Also, I have never seen a motorcycle muffler (except a BMW) that could even remotely considered anything but dead simple (read - low tech).
#8
Posted 26 July 2001 - 01:42
I believe they are made by Magna.
#9
Posted 26 July 2001 - 19:02
#10
Posted 27 July 2001 - 09:45
Amazingly, for an aftermarket company, Micron seems to have enough of a clue to spend some money in the right place and is running WAVE. I suspect 95% of the power gains are due to some guy running WAVE models for each engine, and has little to nothing to due with the pipe construction method.
As for decent race headers that are constructed by the cut and weld method; most are internally purged before and during welding. Argon is typically fed into the inside of the tubes to completely purge out all air. This results in a completely smooth and oxide free weld, inside the pipe. While, there is a very slight reduction on diameter, the internal weld is completely smooth, needing no after clean up or grinding. This is done with all good race headers, along with dairy and pharmaceutical grade equipment.
I also don't see how lenghts of pipes for this header would be easy for them to change if they are paying for hydroforming tooling. Can't be too cheap.
#11
Posted 27 July 2001 - 10:28
Wouldn't any company manufacturing headers use WAVE or a similar simulation software to help design them?
#12
Posted 27 July 2001 - 16:09
I have also known some people that will internally purge roll cages when doing AISI 4130. I will weld some 321 SST tubing and some 4130 tubing, each with and without internal purging. (Hopefully I can do it this weekend). Then I will slice them and take a picture. I'll see if I can get them posted up on this forum, then you guys can be the judge.
As far as WAVE goes, yes, anybody with $100,000 and plenty of time to construct a model would love to use it. I have used WAVE for two years and I can tell you that a lot of time goes into just building the model. Furthermore, these guys must have to get their hands on each engine they are making a header for, since I highly doubt that the manufacturer's are jusst going to give them: port shapes, flow coefficients, combustion data, etc, etc. I'm just suprised that an aftermarket company would have the $100k to spend on a liscense per year. I don't think many aftermarket companies can afford this. Seems like money well spent to me.
Mark
#13
Posted 27 July 2001 - 18:12
#14
Posted 27 July 2001 - 19:34
I worked with a guy who made NHRA approved roll cages and he said that internally purging the tubes made them less likley to crack at the weld or the heat effected zone.
I completely agree with you on purging Ti alloys when welding. I did a Ti fuel cell (for methanol) and didn't have the inside purged well enough and it developed some cracks later. (Although it was some weird alloy Ti-5Al-2.5Sn)
Should I have those pictures posted in a new thread? Thanks.
Mark
#15
Posted 27 July 2001 - 20:50
Originally posted by MRC
I believe that the latest Corvette exhaust has some hydroformed pieces. I think Borla makes it, but I'm not positive.
Borla doesn't have the technology to make anything of the sort.
#16
Posted 27 July 2001 - 20:57
Why do say weird alloy? Ti-5Al-2.5Sn is used frequently because it is a simple single-phase alloy with inexpensive alloying additions.
Cory
#17
Posted 27 July 2001 - 23:05
Also found out that Arvin makes the exhaust for the Z-06. They didn't mention any hydroforming. Guess I'll have to lay off the hukka for a while.
#18
Posted 28 July 2001 - 19:33
#19
Posted 28 July 2001 - 19:50
http://titanium.net/...tNewsletter.pdf
It's good to see Ti finding it's way into relatively reasonably priced cars. Hooray for Chevy leading the way.
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#20
Posted 05 August 2001 - 06:37
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#21
Posted 05 August 2001 - 08:23
Originally posted by imaginesix
It's actually the frame rails of the Corvette that are hydroformed. And now the new GM SUVs are getting hydroformed frame rails too.
...and the frame tubing on the new water-cooled Harley V-ROD. Hydroforming is getting real popular real quick in the auto industry.
#22
Posted 05 August 2001 - 18:21