35 replies to this topic

[F1 Rox]

I just read this from a newsletter send from F1Rumors.net
_______________________________________

Special: The Hill Factor in the Villeneuve Equation
F1 Rumors Newsletter

The latest rumour in the mill has Sir Frank Williams and Patrick Head courting the services of Damon Hill, though not as a driver. It’s hard to fathom, but the process seems to work as follows:

Williams want to bring back Damon to the organisation – maybe because in his darker moments, Frank Williams still feels horribly guilty about what happened to Damon at the end of 1996. He recognises now that there was a better deal to be done with Damon for 1997 and he blew it by refusing point-blank to pay our boy the going rate for the job as world champion. However, that alone is insufficient reason to bring him into the team Frank believes, and Head doesn't disagree, that bringing Hill back in some capacity, maybe as a “development director,” would raise morale. The troops at William’s love Damon: Particularly in the 1996 World Championship season, he could tell them exactly how to sort the car down to the last detail, and they'd respond very positively to his presence.

Additionally, there is the Gerhard Berger factor. Berger represents BMW in terms of loyalty and Williams would love to have someone on their side of the fence who could square up to Berger's rather dogmatic view of BMW's potential. After all who won more GPs, Berger or Hill? Like they say, you do the math...

Furthermore, Williams are anticipating needing a new driver for 2001, and have their eyes on pulling Villeneuve back into the fold. Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve get along very well indeed, with Hill as one of the few people Villeneuve respects…

Well, it's an interesting story, even if it doesn't happen. A factor lending credence is Damon’s retention his F1 super-licence – required even to test – and the fact that his life has been F1 since the day he was born in 1960. He wants more time with Georgie and the family, but he'd get that under the new deal: he would be a background figure, sorting the team back at Grove and supervising, rather than attending every test and Grand Prix.
________________________

What do you all think? I would love to see it happen! We all know that he is done with racing, but with his experience and testing ability, there is no one better. Plus, he gets to be with his family!

[kenny]

that would be FANTASTIC!!!
GO DAMON!!!

hehe

[F1-Experte]

Of course this is a great idea but I wonder if Damon Hill wants to return to Williams.
I can imagine that he is still disappointed about the way things went in 1996. He was successful, he wanted to stay but FW fired him. If I was Damon I would remember this.

------------------
MfG

F1-Experte

[Ruud de la Rosa]

Damon already told the press that he wanted to be a Team manager!! Could be possible!
More likely Williams and Richards!!

[RedFever]

well, the grass is very high in Imola right now. A comeback from Hill might solve that problem....

[Paste]

It's a good idea in theory, with Damon being a great developmental driver, but having Gerhard, Damon, Jacques and Ralf all on the same team would, in essence, be setting a time bomb, wouldn't it? Disagreements are bound to come up, then sides get chosen, and the more high profile people there are in the team, the more likely that is to happen...

I'd like to see it though.

[Force Ten]

Yeah, well... Sure, being a DH fan myself, it sounds nice but... Can Frank and Patrick actually think up a real job for Damon or will the sign in his door look something like: Damon Hill, job description - being Damon Hill?
I mean "development director"? So what are they going to fire the current one? Maybe he is better than Damon being a development director... Or hire Damon as the second one? So if the two guys have different opinions as how the things should be done, who's the one who's word will count? Will they flip a coin or will they run to Frank whenever there's a disagreement? I don't think that Hill would pick up a job with no actual substance or challenge behind it, he doesn't seem to be such kind of a guy.

But Paste, I don't think that big ego problem between the drivers you mentioned (ex and current) cause on one side Hill and Berger and on the other RS and JV have very different agendas which don't seem to be prone of clashing to me. If Hill is somekind of development-director-thingy or whatever his sole purpose would be to get the Williams closer to winning every race there is thus helping both Jaques AND Ralf as much as he can. Also, i don't think he is that much concerned in his standings in some "historical top 100 in 120th century's F1 drivers" or something, so secretly making sure that RS and JV won't finish not a single race where they are in podium getting position and thus making his stats look worse. Oh, yes, Hill was teammate to both of them and they all seemed to be getting along pretty normally at least. If I can think of any problems they lay in the Hill/Berger and also in RS/JV axle's.
Great development driver? OK, good for him but Prost was also such and where has his team been all this time?

But yes, being a DH fan, it sure could be interesting and something to look forward to. But if there isn't a job for DH with some real substance behind it, don't hold your breath.

My $ 0.02....

[Zoe]

This short excerpt alone shows the true nature of the source:

"to pay our boy the going rate for the job as world champion"

Winter must be truly boring in England ;)

Zoe

[RaggedEdge]

I am hoping that Murray Walker, surely being near to physical exhaustion, will feel that it is honourable to give way to his darling buddy Damon Hill in ITV's commentating team. I have a feeling Damon-Martin pair could be quite professional one.

[StuffedBeaver]

Sorry to pour scorn on a good idea. However, I said a while back that I would have thought that the natural progression for Damon would have been into management.

Here's the kicker (as much as I like the bloke who couldn't?)I really don't think that he would be up to the job mentally, the way his head went down this season really makes me wonder what would happen to his motivation and the subsequent effect on 'his' team if he had a poor start to the season.

If it was the same as he displayed throughout this season thaen he is best to go and go completely from F1 or find something less stressful for himself.

------------------
The Beav

[Force Ten]

I dunno 'bout that motivation thing. One thing's for sure, he will not be sitting under the palmtree sipping piña coladas for that awfully long either, he has trained very hard for about ten years a row and he can't just stop at once. Also, I think he got unmotivated mainly because his own lack of competitiveness and that was more down to age and reflexes and being too old to learn all over again to drive under new regs.
If he finds himself a challenging job he is somewhat good at I don't think the motivation is any kind of an issue. He didn't have any problems in 96 or did he?

Also re: less stressful. He has himself said that he thrives under pressure and I kinda believe it. If you look at his past, when did he look the best? I think it was Suzuka 96, he had just lost another race from pole to JV, JV already took pole at the last race, he was holding something like 9 points lead over JV (correct me if I'm wrong) and general consensus about Hill was that he sucked so bad that in *no f&%¤&(%g way in the world* would the dude pull this one off. That for sure Hill would find a way to crash his car and for sure JV would win... Well, at JV made his worst start of the season, Hill (never known as anything special as a starter) left him to dust and won comfortably. So I think when it counts to him, he is as good as anybody onder pressure.

What I think is that Frank probably doesn't have any suitable place for him in his organisation and I don't think he is looking that hard also. Why should he? He isn't in the business to please me or you or Damon or to piss off Todd he is in it to win races and that only.

[This message has been edited by Force Ten (edited 12-09-1999).]

[StuffedBeaver]

I think I am right to cite Hill as not being able to withstand pressure in my earlier post.

There is 1 thing saying that you like working under pressure and a nother actually doing it! I remember hill have a particulary bad qualifying session and losing the car in a bend and Hill just burying the throttle in anger or at the end of this season tearing into an interviewer who was asking some questions - he really went off the deep end big time.

My point is that he has not responded favourably under the intense pressure he has felt this year and that I bet the pressure is greater on a team boss than a driver.

------------------
The Beav

[Force Ten]

There are different kind of pressures, one that comes from getting the best out of yourself competing and the other one (shall I say the frustration) when deep down in your heart you know you can't do it anymore but are still trying. And actually not coping to do it.
I think if he is any good in management his ability to withstand pressure would not be such a big deal. Different skills, different abilities, different pressures.

[BuzzingHornet]

I hope its true, I think Williams always got the best out of Hill in the same way that Jordan seem to be getting the best out of Frentzen; when administered a kick up the arse he always seems to start delivering

Jordan don't take that approach and thats not always the best thing for Hill in my opinion...


[This message has been edited by BuzzingHornet (edited 12-09-1999).]

[Zen F1 Fan]

Damon Hill: R.I.P.

PS. He gave all he got!!!

[DangerMouse]

Of Course Hill cannot stand pressure, he didn't in his second full F1 season watch his team-mate get killed, take over as #1 in the (at the time) biggest team in F1 without hardly any experience, turn around the development of a terrible car and take the title to the wire putting in some brilliant drives on the way - that was all a dream, and even if it wasn't a dream, any old driver could have done that - couldn't they?....

Or what about beating a very fast team-mate to the title despite being sacked half way through the season from a team so good that you know this will be your only real chance of ever winning a championship as you're quite old.

Made that one up too.

Hill cracks like cheap plaster on a wonky wall, anybody can see that.....

[yahoo]

Piss off back to dublin!!

[RedFever]

for a second I feared someone wanted Damon back on the track......after seeing Jarno give a better perfomance yesterday than Damon in the entire last season, I was wondering who was the lunatic. Well, as a team member, yes, he could be helpful, like Lauda was for Ferrari in the past, etc.

[Bob Nomates]

Hill is no pussy I think he responds one of the best under pressure....I'm not sure that Hill would want to be a middle management go between at Williams though...I think he would want to aim abit higher than that.

I would think he would at least want a job that means he can sit at the side of the track during the races with some headphones on rather than, dressed in a suit and talking bollocks.

He has said he will make a come back though so maybe he is just waiting to see what sort of offers he get first before he decides, maybe he will get a job like Gerhards, working for Reanult maybe.

[IRISH]

Yeh I'd like to see Damon back as a sidkick to Martin B, can u imagine him taking the piss out of Irvine / Schumacher on his grid walk interviews.He seems to have a good sense of humor.The sooner this happens the better.

[F1 Rox]

I would have never thought that a 3-month old post is still being replied...

Just curious, Damon has been really quiet lately... Anyone know what he is doing?

[Jason]

Bring Damon Hill along with slick tires. This would be the perfect combination.

[Chris G.]

If only Damon would have quit after 1998. I didn't really like him much then, but after his horrible attitude and driving in 1999, I really don't have a lot of respect for him as a sportsman, driver or ambassador for the sport.

Not only did he wreck people out mercilessly and stupidly, he made a mockery of the sport in 1999 by waffling on when he would retire and by parking perfectly good F1 cars. According to Jordan mechanics, DH parked working F1 cars (during the race) no less than 3 times last year. He quit. EJ even said so.

So, if your a DH fan you must have been upset at his performance last year, right?? Well, think how someone who's not a DH fan saw it. As far as I'm concerned he should just stay away from F1 entirely - his type of "expertise" is not needed.



[This message has been edited by Chris G. (edited 03-13-2000).]

[Zeus]

I have never been a fan of Hill as a driver. But he is a class-act and this would be a very good idea. Besides, those hard-asses at Williams need someone with a little tact and diplomacy to represent them.

[mtl'78]

Chris, posts like that only demonstrate your ignorance. Just because Hill couldn't hack it as a driver anymore does not make him an idiot. He parked good cars because for a guy who has won 22 times, doing his best and still being miles behind a teammate is too much to handle. Yes he should have retired mid-season. But you forget that Hill had a lot of pressure to continure from sponsors and Jordan himself. It was a very difficult situation and Hill was on his own.

You should probably educate yourself about Hill before posting anything else on him. You would learn about a driver who was very good technically, and was a fantastic fighter on the track. He was one of the top rain drivers of his day, along with Alesi and Schumacher, a good qualifyier and a perfect gentleman on the track.

Jacques Villeneuve owes Hill a lot. He has thanked him many times as Hill made JV's first year in F1 a lot easier than it could have been, sharing testing data and setups from their first test. Hill deserves a lot of credit in preparing JV's FW19.

[vroom-vroom]

What Williams desperately lacks is the "sympathy factor". Both Frankie and Head are viewed as the archvilains in many circles, especially after the Zanardi fiasco. Frank as the head figure of WilliamsGP won't last forever either. Hill would fit in nicely as a Frankie understudy, IMO, and bring back some warmth and color to WilliamsGP very cool and businesslike environment.

[RedFever]

mtl'78, while I agree with you that Hill had been a positive figure for F1 from 93 to 98, I have to object to your point "for a guy who has won 22 times, doing his best and still being miles behind a teammate is too much to handle". How come he could handle receiving apaycheck from Jordan without delivering though???"

I don't know.....like I lost a lot of respect for SChumi, Senna and Prost for punting drivers out, I lost respect for Hill for sticking around without even being remotely competitive and still taking money for it. When you feel you lost your edge and you can't take it being behind your teamate, you need to be honest and hang the gloves. If you don't and race for the paycheck only (why would Hill race the last 6-7 races of 99, when he already announced his retirement and his results were only blurring his reputation after the achievements of his past?), well, sorry, dude, you might sport a cool goatiee and have a rock and roll attitude, but still, I lost respect for you.

[Chris G.]

mtl'78: I never said he was an idiot. In fact, you made him sound more like an "idiot" than I did by admitting and trying to rationalize his obvious inability to participate in a sport that he was a part of.

[Nomad]

I'm with Dangermouse and Yahoo.
May I never that one-eyebrow EVER again.

[Force Ten]

RedFever, I agree with you that Hill should have packed it when he announced. But this is all being wise after the event has already happened. After the British GP it looked that Hill was again somewhat competitive so I guess all the parties continued on that basis onwards.

And I don't think he raced for his paycheck the latter part of the season. I think it was more because of pride. No, never in my wildest dreams I thought he kept driving because of his fans, I guess a guy so down by his own lack of performance has other things to worry about that his fans at the given moment. I wouldn't give a **** about my fans when everything I have worked goes down the toilet. He has said that he trained really hard for 99. Why should we not believe him?

I think deep down he still believed or wanted to believe he can do it. And wanted desperately to show he is not some old-fart pushower.. Of course... He ended up showing the opposite.

Was this behaviour stupid? We can say yes now but we couldn't say it before it really happened. Remember how a large amount of people claimed how Button would fall on his face at Melbourne and now claim that Button has another fan now...

Was this behaviour stubborn? Most definitely was. Then again, stubborn people get WDC-s..

But it was very human.

Here's a scenario....
One works on advertising. Ok, let just say here that he is a copywriter. And one day he could realise that he just doesn't get it anymore.

But it would not be an overnight realisation. First his work startes to degrade, he gets a lot of rejections from clients and has to redo it. Then suddenly he will get less clients and the new smartass guy that just showed op to the company three months ago gets all the praises from the bosses and so on. But our copywriter still won't give up. And when the boss brings him into his office and suggestes him to take a time off he refuses. Why, he still is as good as anybody, why should he...

...And only after a large number of drunk-to-the-gutter nights later, after his girlfriend has just left him the sad thruth will come to him...

I mean this is f***ing typical bad movie script, after which of course our advertising guy invents a slogan, what will be the the new headline of Coca-Cole company!

Exept... nobody told Hill to take a time off. When you are out you are out and all your dreams are - poof - gone.

Best regads,
Force Ten

[yahoo]

FECK OFF DAMON!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pete Stanley]

Interesting. Frank Williams and Patrick Head haven't trusted a driver, or even an ex-driver, since Alan Jones abrubtly left.

I'm not saying this Hill thing won't happen, but it would mark a reversal of a two decade trend.

[yahoo]

HEY IRISH,

I TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT DAMON HILL GOING INTO T.V.

STOP STEALING MY IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!

[RedFever]

Force Ten, I work in advertising in New York, so I can easily relate to your example. Problem is that in advertising the quality of the copywriter slowly deteriorates. In F1, the second and a half you are behind your teamate each race is there and anyone can see it. You can see it too, so denial is not going to help. Lap times are all that count. If Schumi or Mika start from Brazil being 1 1/2 seconds behind DC and Rubens, by year end are finished. So Hill had no excuse, the times were just not fast anymore and he ruined the race to way too many drivers (how do you think Ralph felt when he saw this kamikaze drive into his car in Monaco with zero chances of making a pass there???).

What the copywriter will do is that most likely he is a Creative Director at that point. So, he doesn't really have to write the ads anylonger. He becomes a manager, he manages a team of creatives, syntesizes ideas and strategies, gives the teams directions, provides feedback and corrections and represents the team at client's meetings. He is still extremely valuable to the agency, but his role has changed and use a different skill set. Damon should have done the same, hang the gloves and helped the team in developing/testing the car, while a Vertsappen, Salo, etc, hungry to prove himself should have driven the second Jordan for the 2nd half of the season. So, Damon is a team in a position similar to Berger or Lauda makes sense, Damon as a driver in 99 it was one of the most painful experiences to watch.

[Force Ten]

RedFever... I sorta looked at your profile... guilty as charged...

Anyways, you said watching Damon in 99 was painful. It sure was, as a fan I know. And still I wanted him to keep driving, hoping maybe... I would have been jumping up and down if he would somehow managed himself to a podium, through attrition, cheating, whatever... There's nothing rational to it and we all know it.

Also, if I am correct, Salo was very much a real candidate replacing Hill during Silverstone timeframe, but then Michael broke his legs and Salo was out of the picture for Jordan. And Verstappen was even slower than Hill in testing if I am correct... We can always speculate how he would have done better in races but we never really know. And I think if he would stopped, he would haved stopped altogether and not helped Eddie anymore with his cars, not in testing, nor in developing. These guys ego is just too big for such things.

It is just one of those s**tty things that sometimes happen and afterwards everyone is being really smart and saying what he and he should've done.

And yes, I would like too to watch Damon in a position where he could actually help a team and I hope he will get there sometime.

[BuzzingHornet]

Interesting posts... I hope Damon does come back to F1 in some form sooner rather than later. I still have a soft spot for Williams myself, and it would be nice to see Damon back there but i'm not sure if its realistic, especially as JV seems to be headed for McLaren now...



[This message has been edited by BuzzingHornet (edited 03-15-2000).]