24 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Many thanks to whoever it was told us, a few weeks ago, about W. H. Smiths offer on the Stirling Moss/Doug Nye book, 'My Cars, My Career.' I snapped one up and am fascinated by many of the things I am reading.

The section on the Mille Miglia is particularly eye-opening.

I must admit, I have never heard anything mentioned before about Fangio's little stamina pills. They seemed to be made from exotic preparations concocted from Amazonian plants; well, maybe.

Certainly, Stirling feels it was these pills that enable JMF to drive unaided at Buenos Aires in 1955 when everybody else was swapping cars like a suburban car-keys party! He himself drove the Mille Miglia and then apparently could not sleep, so drove up to Stuttgart almost straight away after.

It occurs to me to wonder, in these days of random drug testing of athletes, what might have turned up had his or Fangio's 'sample' been analysed.

Also, again regarding the Mille Miglia, I think I was aware of the fact that the Merc was not pristine when it finished, but until reading the book, I had absolutely no idea how many near misses and close shaves SM and Jenks had.

I wonder if I was the only one who was unaware of these facts.

[Gary C]

Barry, does the book tell us how the Merc on the Mille Miglia got that big ol' dent in the rear bodywork, just behind Stirlings' head???

[Barry Boor]

YES!

[Gary C]

well.........................??

[Darren Galpin]

Can I suggest that those stamina pills made from Amazonian plants might simply have been based on Guarana, the fruit of the liana which grows in the Amazon? Those in South America will know that you can buy this as a fizzy drink in the same way that you by Coca Cola here, and it is known for its energy giving properties. You can buy Guarana powder in health food shops here too for the same thing.

[AyePirate]

The active ingredient in Guarana is good old caffiene.
There is a guarana drink available here in NYC
called "Bawls".

If Fangio in fact drove to Stuttgart directly after
driving the Mille Miglia that would seem to suggest
that Fangio may have partaken in something a wee
bit stronger.

[mat1]

Originally posted by AyePirate
The active ingredient in Guarana is good old caffiene.
There is a guarana drink available here in NYC
called "Bawls".

If Fangio in fact drove to Stuttgart directly after
driving the Mille Miglia that would seem to suggest
that Fangio may have partaken in something a wee
bit stronger.

Yes, I think so too. BTW, I believe caffeine in sufficient amount will return a positive doping test.

mat

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Don't know about racing drivers, but swedish speedway riders in the late 50's used some pills to stay awake. Meetings in Sweden on friday, Glasgow saturday, Germany sunday, London monday...etc. It surely was amphetamine. No one seems to objected to this at the time, there wasn't any drug problems in Sweden in those days.
Remember the Beatles playing for hours in Hamburg in the early 60's?

Stefan

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
Remember the Beatles playing for hours in Hamburg in the early 60's?

Who was it who said:

"If you can remember the sixties you weren't really there" ??

[Barry Boor]

For GaryC's benefit, as far as I can make out, the list reads like this:

Damaged left front wing - Padua
Brushed straw bales, nearly hit petrol pumps - Pescara
Hit straw bales - leaving Pescara
Spun into ditch - Radicofani Pass
Big slide, just missed solid wall - 50 miles from Brescia

In addition, of course, there is the famous flying jump where he mis-interpreted Jenks' signal.

So it was much more of a wild ride than I was always led to believe.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Within hours of the finish, Moss drove on to Germany to celebrate the victory. He was so pumped up. Times were more innocent in those days with far less regulation in all walks of life. I think most people were also totally unaware of any potential dangerous side affects of many drugs too and would not have even realised that they might be putting their long term health at risk.

Was the dent in the headrest caused by Moss pulling away whilst a mechanic was still working on the car?

[Bernd]

I would say that Cocaine was an active ingrediant in those pills.

[Vitesse2]

A bit before Stirling's time, but I came across a throwaway reference to performance-enhancing drugs in Raymond Mays' autobiography "Split Seconds".

In 1935 Raymond had what he called a "very troublesome arm" and before the Grosser Bergpreis von Deutschland he consulted a doctor in Freiburg. As is often the case, I suspect Mays is writing in a private code, calling the doctor a "most understanding man [who] gave me all sorts of soothing pine bath essences and also some pills. These he called 'start' pills and told me that many athletes - and in particular ski-jumpers - had gained great benefit from taking one pill an hour before they were due to perform."

A few days later, Mays received a strange midnight phone call, allegedly from the Gestapo regarding certain "conversations" (code again?), and spent a rather sleepless night before the climb. He took a strong dose of the pills, but as the car was off-song he still didn't perform very well.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by mat1


Yes, I think so too. BTW, I believe caffeine in sufficient amount will return a positive doping test.

mat

Did'nt Nannini have a worry about how many expressos he was drinking and was told he would have to have 33 on race morning to be above the limits?

[SEdward]

I'm hardly surprised that Nannini drinks lots of coffee. I think that his family has quite a history in the coffee business.

I spent a week in Tuscany earlier this year and visited Siena. I spotted a very attractive coffe shop and "pasticceria" on the main shopping street and bought a nice-looking tin of fine Italian-blended coffee, without paying much attention to the name on the tin or the shop front.

Only when I was back home did I notice that the shop was called Nannini and it took just a couple of minutes of Googling to learn that the shop belonged to Alessandro's family.

So where can I get my Schumacher sausages?

Edward

[kayemod]

Originally posted by SEdward
So where can I get my Schumacher sausages?

Edward

If Jacques Villeneuve is to be believed, you may well be able to buy sausages freshly made from 100% Schumacher, some time after the GPDA meeting at Silverstone this weekend.

[Wolf]

Don't know how pertinent is it to this thread, but I think that caffeine was recently removed from list of banned substances...

[aldo]

About the damage in the tail of 722, it is the perfect mark of the butts of a mechanic not fast enough to get out of the path of the car at refuelling. I've seen a photo of the accident, published somewhere, quite recently.
About the stamina pills, when I met Varzi and Fangio doctor in Galliate (i.e. the village where Varzi was born) he said that he used to give some pills, made by him, to Fangio to improve eyesight at night. Maybe, they had some "side" effect, too. The story also goes that at MM1955, Fangio gave the same pills to Moss.

[canon1753]

Originally posted by ghinzani


Did'nt Nannini have a worry about how many expressos he was drinking and was told he would have to have 33 on race morning to be above the limits?

Wasn't Sandro's problem more to do with his chain smoking ciggies?

I seem to remember reading that he needed to go "cold turkey" a few weeks before the testing started.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I believe the answer may be found here .

[Vitesse2]

Came across another - understandably rare - published source on what the writer calls "keep-awake pills". The writer in question is Richard Bensted-Smith, who was co-driver to Henry Taylor (yes - the GP driver) in the 1961 Monte.

.... pills are funny things. I made the mistake of topping up with another 12-hour dose just as we left Charbonnières and drove for an hour with immense brilliance over practically straight, dry roads, puzzled only by the fact that whenever I looked at the speedometer we were doing a steady 55mph. Henry was justifiably out like a torch with a flat battery.

Source: The Motorist's Bedside Book (ed Anthony Harding) Batsford 1962 p202

[RS2000]

More or less what I heard from those using Dexedrine or Benzedrine on the final 5day/1night rest RAC Rallies ie. after initial effect from first dose is over nothing can stop you driving far too slowly on long road sections. Quite apart from the world having moved on to frown about such things by the time I was in the driving seat, those stories were enough to ensure I (and most of those around me) would have nothing to do with it. Both Stuart Turner's last book and the more recent Paddy Hopkirk/Bill Price book refer to the commonality of such things in 50s/60s rallying.

[SpitfireJEJ]

I have read that in preparation for the 1955 Mille Miglia, Fangio gave both Stirling Moss and Jenks some of his "special pills" presumably some kind of amphetamine. Stirling took his and Jenks apparently had his analysed. So, does anyone know what these pills were and whether they would have been legal in Britain either now or in 1955?

[Cirrus]

A "Search BB" using 'Fangio AND pills' will prove very revealing...

[Paul Parker]

Further to Doug's earlier reply in another thread, the pill(s) in question were I think of Swiss origin.

I cannot remember the name now but it began with D. No doubt somebody out there will know and my aplogies if this has already been covered elsewhere.