22 replies to this topic

[Simon Bundi]

I wonder if there is a mistake in many of my books about the '69 season.
According my informations the '69 dutch grand prix was on a saturday! (21/6/69) Is that right? I don't hope so!!

Simon

[Gary C]

Weren't all (if not, a lot) of GPs held on Saturdays in the past?
It's only 'fairly' recently that GPs have been on sundays (TV coverage??)/

[Don Capps]

The Dutch race was often on either a Monday or even the odd Saturday in its early days. The British GP was always on Saturday until into the 70's -- very early in the 70's I think at that. And so forth and so on. The calendar was not the homogenized, tasteless concoction it is today where only a different placement of the trackside hording or the striping of the curbs to differentiate one circuit from another and the organizers were truly free-thinkers -- especially in ways to keep their money from the teams and take it from the spectators.... It was the Chaos Theory at its chaotic best...

[FEV]

Formula 1 race day in the past was not always a sunday. In Great Britain and several other northern european countries, races were often held saturdays. In Netherlands, the Dutch TT (Dutch GP of the FIM World Championship Grand Prix) is still held a saturday today. According to one source the reason could be to leave sundays free for the number sport in NL : football.

[ozzy.g]

Funny!
I found this post that reminded me of a day of 1983, when I was only a child and I did cry because I lost the final race of the season because I thought it was on sunday (I asked my parents if I could watch more tv on sunday instead of saturday, I was only 7, you know...)! There were three drivers who could win the championship! Still crying...
Which race am I talking about?

Kyalami, october 15 1983!
Tomorrow!
Funny and incredible!

[LittleChris]

Saturday 1983 SA GP .- Could not name the date just the GP. Remember it well cos I was taken up to London from Somerset by my dad some 13 years after being dragged out of London kicking & screaming originally. He then dumped me in a right **** hole in East London on the basis that I could do with a polytechnic education ( NELP ) . Got better after that thankfully !! C'mon on you Irons !!

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by FEV

In Great Britain and several other northern european countries, races were often held saturdays.

Indeed this was so; the Grands Prix held at Silverstone were Saturday race days for many years.

However, I forget which year it was when the first Sunday GP was held at the venue.

[Geoff E]

I think perhaps 1976 was the first British GP to be held on a Sunday.

There was probably no professional Sunday sport in the UK before 1974. I believe the laws were changed as a result of power cuts in 1974 which required the re-arrangment of football matches. I've a feeling that it was not permitted to charge admission before that.

[JohnS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Indeed this was so; the Grands Prix held at Silverstone were Saturday race days for many years.

Wasn't it something to do with the locals not wanting their church-going disturbed?

The only quirk left on the calendar seems to be Monaco practice on a Thursday instead of Friday. What's the reason for that?

Also on Monaco, there was something about its date on the calendar always being a certain number of weeks after Easter, or something like that. Is that right, and is it still the case?

John

[Ralliart]

The 1981 U.S. GP-West II in Las Vegas was held on Saturday. A brand new circuit, it was one of the first GPs to circumvent the rule that a race had to be held on the circuit before a GP was. Perhaps t was the first GP held in that regard. Practice was held on Wednesday with qualifying on Thursday and Friday. I was there that Wednesday, waiting for the circuit to open. I kid you not, there was a woman sitting behind a card table at the entrance to the pits. "Carlos Reutemann? Oh yes, I see your name listed. You can come in." Unbelievable but true.

[john ruston]

All major sporting events took place on Saturday in UK until mid 70's when the laws changed .One day cricket sunday league was the first major sport to break thev barrier although all major club motoring events were held on Sundays

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Ralliart

The 1981 U.S. GP-West II in Las Vegas was held on Saturday.

Was it?! I was there for both, and I don't remember that!

BTW I'm pretty sure it wasn't called the US GP II; it was the Caesar's Palace GP I think.

[ozzy.g]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Was it?! I was there for both, and I don't remember that!

BTW I'm pretty sure it wasn't called the US GP II; it was the Caesar's Palace GP I think.

Mmh...I guess it was Usa while Long Beach was Usa West, but I might be wrong...

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Indeed this was so; the Grands Prix held at Silverstone were Saturday race days for many years.

However, I forget which year it was when the first Sunday GP was held at the venue.

I think it was either 1983 or 1985. Certainly I can remember the 1981 race being held on Saturday.

[Bonde]

Having used this calendar at http://www.timeandda...=2005&country=2 and Hayhoe's aging Grand prix Data Book, it turns out that the British GP for a while alternated between Saturdays and Sundays in concert with the odd-year Silverstone/even-year Brands Hatch venue alternation, and even including the the two GPs held on British soil in 1983:

Up to and including 1975: Saturday
1976: Sunday
1977: Saturday
1978: Sunday
1979: Saturday
1980: Sunday
1981: Saturday
1982: Sunday
1983 GP of GB: Saturday (Silverstone); GP of Europe: Sunday (Brands Hatch)
1984: Sunday
1985 Both GPs/venues: Sunday
1986 and on: Sunday

I don't know whether the people in Northamptonshire are more religious than those in Kent, but I suspect TV may have had something to do with standardizing on the Sunday events c. 1985...

IIRC, the last RoC in 1983 was also held on a Sunday. I remember because I went along with designer Mark Wiliams (he had a car and a camera, and I didn't), who was free-lancing for Delta where I was an apprentice at the time. Mark, having been with Lola for a long while, is now Chief Engineer Future Projects of McLaren Racing, while I'm still at clubbie level...

[Scribe06]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Was it?! I was there for both, and I don't remember that!

BTW I'm pretty sure it wasn't called the US GP II; it was the Caesar's Palace GP I think.

Originally posted by ozzy.g


Mmh...I guess it was Usa while Long Beach was Usa West, but I might be wrong...

Las Vegas hosted the "Caesar's Place Grand Prix" and Long Beach the "Long Beach Grand Prix." While there were programs proclaiming the 1976 running to be the "USGP West," it was actually the II Long Beach Grand Prix.

[ReWind]

@ Don (I think it's you despite your umpteenth disguise ;) ):

Can you read what is written on Clay Regazzoni's winner's trophy?
© DPPI (taken from "rallye racing" magazine)

[Scribe06]

Originally posted by ReWind
@ Don (I think it's you despite your umpteenth disguise ;) ):

Can you read what is written on Clay Regazzoni's winner's trophy?
© DPPI (taken from "rallye racing" magazine)

Yes, I can read it, but also note what is says beneath it -- LBGP -- the actual title of the event. Sorry, but the PR for the 1976 "USGP West," was just that, PR. It could call itself whatever it wanted, but it wasn't the "USGP West" since there was only one USGP of any sort that season -- the one at Watkins Glen. Find the ACCUS and SCCA sanctioning papers and you will discover what Chris Pook and the LBGP corp. actually promoted from 1976 to 1983, as well as in 1975 and from 1984 onward.....

This is close to the same sort of thing that took place in 1984 when the "USGP" took place at The Meadowlands, only the PR machine was better run on the West Coast.

PS: This actually just another of those reasons as to why "Pity the Poor Historian!" is more than just a catchy phrase.... This is another example of why it is easy to envy those who are baseball historians since they don't seem to have these problems....

[Ralliart]

If a race is part of the world championship, it's immaterial what the local promoters call it. A promoter could call his race the Suzuka Grand Prix but to the rest of the world it would be the Japanese Grand Prix, for example. I think the '75 F5000 race at Long Beach was also advertised as the Long Beach Grand Prix. Every race at Long Beach, I think has been called the LBGP. With three GPs in those days, Long Beach, Las Vegas and Watkins Glen, they were all United States Grands Prix and, therefore, to differentiate, USGP-West I, USGP-West II and the USGP-East (which I saw it listed as somewhere). Osterreich GP, Nurburgring GP, etc. - it'd be stupid. One'd have to undersatnd the American mentality. The United States Grand Prix wouldn't be in as many people as the Long Beach GP. We're very provincial, I think the is the word. Unwordly. Isolationist. Hicks. Take your pick.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Scribe06

Yes, I can read it, but also note what is says beneath it -- LBGP -- the actual title of the event. Sorry, but the PR for the 1976 "USGP West," was just that, PR.

I'm afraid I can't accept that the official programme for the GP would have carried the wrong event title.

http://hometown.aol....nt121/LB76L.bmp

I get a feeling of déjà vu about this...

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Geoff E
I think perhaps 1976 was the first British GP to be held on a Sunday.

There was probably no professional Sunday sport in the UK before 1974. I believe the laws were changed as a result of power cuts in 1974 which required the re-arrangment of football matches. I've a feeling that it was not permitted to charge admission before that.

The Football Clubs were not allowed to charge Admission however they got round it by only allowing admission to those who had purchased a programme which co-incidentally suddenly leapt in cost to that of normal admission!

The programme was a tatty A5 single sheet so you were ripped off all ways!

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I'm afraid I can't accept that the official programme for the GP would have carried the wrong event title.

http://hometown.aol....nt121/LB76L.bmp

I get a feeling of déjà vu about this...

Do you have posters for subsequent years? AFAIK 76 was the only year the USGPWest title was used.USGPWest II certainly NEVER existed.
Back to the original subject;RACMSA did not allow trade supported events on Sundays until 1966.This was also the first year that Silverstone had any racing on sundays.Why Silverstone took longer to move its GP to Sunday than Brands Hatch I have never found out.Maybe BRDC were more religious than John Webb?

[Scribe06]

The 1976 running of the Long Beach GP with additonal and apparently unofficial title the "USGP West" is one of those things that Pook & Co. did that put butts in the grandstands and pictures & stories in the papers. Any consideration of history or historians was irrelevant. The moniker did its job.

Originally posted by Ralliart
With three GPs in those days, Long Beach, Las Vegas and Watkins Glen, they were all United States Grands Prix and, therefore, to differentiate, USGP-West I, USGP-West II and the USGP-East (which I saw it listed as somewhere).

Sorry, but this is entirely incorrect. From 1961 to 1980 the only place to host the USGP was Watkins Glen. There was the Long Beach GP, the Caesars Palace GP, the Dallas GP, and Detroit GP run, but none them were a "USGP" of any sort. Then came the "revival" of the USGP at Phoenix.... with a CART event advertsing itself as the USGP in 1984 and apparently again in 1985.

Who said that this was supposed to be easy?