43 replies to this topic

[Martyj]

There have recently been threads about driver's musical and education backgrounds. What about military experiences? Perhaps this has been covered before?

I think Gurney served during Korea. Also, many European countries have mandatory national service. Didn't Peterson serve in the reserves for his country? Certainly there must be many stories about pre-war European drivers being caught up in WW2. I'm curious about specifics -- what army did they serve in? What major campaigns were they part of? Was Enzo Ferrari part of the Axis war machine, like Porche?

On a similar note, how did so many draft age American drivers manage to not be called up during Vietnam? Revson, Penske, Ginther, Andretti, the Unsers, etc. Are there any instances of a promising driver leaving their career entirely when called to service?

[Don Capps]

Brett Lunger and I were in Viet-Nam at the same time: he was a lieutenant in the USMC up country in I Corps, while I was down in the Delta and "associated environs".... He and I once had a nice talk about our experiences, at the 1972 Road Atlanta F5000 race in fact.

Correct on Gurney and Korea -- he was in an Anti-Aircraft Artillery unit of I recall.

Mike Argetsinger served in the Army 1961-1963 with a tour in Europe if I remember my facts.

Enzo Ferrari did machine tool work for various Italian military programs during WW2, but was scarcely a figure similar to Herr Doktor Porsche. Ferrari also served in WW1.

Harry Schell and Rene Dreyfus both served in the US Army during WW2, albeit their language skills were of much more use once the Allies entered France...

Bud Moore served in Europe as an Infantryman. I know he had a CIB and several Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart.

I think Curtis Turner was a pilot during the War.

Benoist and Grover-Williams were with the SOE.

Louis Chiron served in the French Army.

I think Roger Penske was in the Army Reserve, bit I could be mistaken -- it might have been Tim Mayer who was either in the Army Reserve or on Active Duty.

Ronnie Householder served as a mechanic during WW2 ending up on Iwo Jima servicing Mustangs statuoned there.

Of course, there was Eddie Rickenbacker (Richenbacher to the AAA...)

I am doing this just off the top of my head, so there are certainly more...

[FLB]

David Purley served as a paratrooper.

[Don Capps]

Innes Ireland was also a member of the Para Regiment

Tony Gaze was flighter pilot in WW2 and an ace; Whitney Straight also served in the RAF as a flighter pilot -- surviving a shoot-down and escaping back to Allied lines

[Wolf]

Wasn't Pierre Wilmille member of French resistance during WWII. I distinctly remember reading something to that effect...

BTW, You might find Wartime Thread worth looking into...

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

Are you kidding? After the war almost every Indy Pilot that raced in the 50's survived the war ,and had nothing to loose, they went Speedway racing, these guy's were a tough bunch...The first war, I'm sure the same thing, life was different at that time, and the war effort produced some great racer's....I'm sure the same was true in European racing, but with tea & biscuits, not wiskey and cigars....
That comment alone could start a great thread....Why were the Europeans, looked at different, by the Americans, it was all Racing to me?

[fines]

Jerry Hoyt and Jimmy Davies served in Corea.

[Mike Argetsinger]

While I should be content just to be listed (thank you Don) in this distinguished company, I am compelled to say that my active duty service in the U.S. Army was from 1962-64. I was stationed in Okinawa although I later lived in Europe for 10 years - this was after my military service.

Perhaps of more general interest is to note that during my years racing in Europe I encountered many fellow Americans who were racing while on active duty stationed there - and others who stayed in Europe to race after their miltary hitch was up. There are way too many to attempt to list but one name in this category that may be known to readers of this forum is my friend Bob Roemer - Bob is an editor of, and has a regular column in, Roundel - which is the magazine of the BMW Car Club of America. Major Bob drove tanks during the week and race cars on the weekends. Roundel, by the way, is far and away the best quality publication I have ever seen emanating from a single make car club.

[Vitesse2]

See also this thread:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=25787

[unrepentant lurker]

I remember seeing in a career summary for JMF, at the very top was a notation for 2 years of "national service". No other specifics. It was the mid-twenties.

[josh.lintz]

Robert Benoist also was in the French Resistance in WWII. Rudolf Hasse assisted Germany in WWII, but died of an illness. Keke Rosberg was in the Finnish Army during his early years of motor racing.

I remember hearing during an F1 telecast some years ago that Gerhard Berger was exempt from service in Austria due to his road accident in late-1984.

[David McKinney]

Following on from Mike's posting (forum posting, that is) - am I right in thinking Bill Wuesthoff started his racing career while stationed in Germany? I think there were one or two others whose names became familiar in US racing later, but I can't bring them to mind

[Santi]

Didn't Ken Tyrrell serve in the RAF?

He was also a driver.

[Marco94]

And let's not forget Ralf Schumacher. He did, I think, three weeks of military service in Germany. Being a Jordan driver at the time he did have the benefit of some special rules for athletes.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by MOTORSPORT RESORT
Are you kidding? After the war almost every Indy Pilot that raced in the 50's survived the war ,and had nothing to loose, they went Speedway racing, these guy's were a tough bunch...The first war, I'm sure the same thing, life was different at that time, and the war effort produced some great racer's....

Thanks for posting this, I was going to mention the same thing. Some years in the 50's, it was hard to find a driver in the Indy 500 field who HADN'T served in WWII. I'm also aware that some of the NASCAR drivers from the same era also served in WWII.

Good grief!!!, I wouldn't even know where to start. It boggles the mind there were so many.

A couple off the top of my head:

Harold Kite, NASCAR, tank driver in WWII
Chuck Stevenson, '52 AAA Champ, flew transport WWII India


Jim Thurman

[Leif Snellman]

Gunnar Nilsson served in the Navy. Submarines.

[Toine]

Theodore Pilette served in the belgian army as a mechanic during WW one.

Toine

[LittleChris]

Georges Boillot flew fighters ( Apparently a bit of an ace ) and died in the first World War.

It's also worth remembering that many European countries still have some form of National Service and thus many drivers will have taken part. I remember Mika Hakkinen having to do so during his successful 1990 British F3 season. I also remember there being a problem with his work permit for the UK ( Can't remember if the two were linked ) but apparently he nearly missed a couple of races that year because of it.

[birdie]

I remember both Trulli and Fisichella doing national service earlier in their F1 careers, I believe they were in a special athletes regiment though.

[Vitesse2]

Jo Bonnier was a lieutenant in the Swedish navy.

[mikabest]

As LittleChris said already, many European countries have some form of "National Service" in use. That's how it is at least in Scandinavia. So basicly every male citizen in Finland, Sweden, Denmark or Norge have gone through the military service. Nowadays rather many (but not majority) choose civil alternative service, but for example Mika Hakkinen or Keke Rosberg who have been mentioned here have served in the ordinary military service. When they served the training was either 8 months or 11 months (if you were trained to be an officer in reserve). So I'd say that's a bit different thing than having real military background - like being a soldier during the wartime.

[FLB]

Ivan Capelli took time off during an off-season (1989?) for his National Service.

[deangelis86]

Andrea de Cesaris also did military service, in fact IIRC he had only just finished before his F3 career took off.

[dmj]

Almost all late Thirties racers served in WWII, and most of early Fifties aces too. Wimille, Veyron and Benoist were French resistance heroes, a lot of British drivers served in RAF or somewhere...
Benoist died in Buchenwald concentration camp, after he was arrested by Gestapo. British racer William Grover Williams colaboreted with him in Resistance. He was caught and killed by Gestapo in Paris.
Auto Union driver Ulli Bigalke died during Battle for Britain as Luftwaffe pilot.
Johnnie Wakefield was killed on opposite side in 1942.
Manfred von Brauchistch was rejected when he tried to join Wermacht, although, or because of, his uncle was a general.

dmj

[No27]

Elio de Angelis did his military service during one of the early '80's seasons.

[Richard Jenkins]

Tony Rolt was a war hero, winning two medals for bravery for aiding stricken compatriots during gunfire. He was also captured in Colditz castle.
Mike Fisher also served in Vietnam & was a fighter pilot extraoridarre. He now serves in the Pentagon.

Both BBC commentators Raymond Baxter & Murray Walker were in the war.

These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, right now. Maybe more as I come across other things.

[Doug Nye]

Richie Ginther was a helicopter mechanic, I believe, during military service spent partly in Korea - Graham Hill served aboard cruisers in the Royal Navy - British National Service gave the vast majority of would-be racing drivers here some military experience, although both Moss and Hawthorn proved medically unfit due to perfectly genuine personal histories of kidney problems - Tony Brooks was exempt I believe thanks to his dentistry studies - Peter Collins??? Hmm - that's an interesting one, off the top of my head I don't know how he escaped the net. My big brother was judged unfit - flat feet - two of his chums served in Malaya achieving what the US so signally failed to achieve in Vietnam, one chum was shot to pieces for his pains, but survives to this day. Pre-1961 not doing some form of military service was indeed the exeption rather than the rule. Even Fangio did military time in Argentina.

Oh yes, and Ken Tyrrell was a flight engineer on Avro York transports...etc. George Abecassis won the DFC dropping agents into occupied Europe from a special ops all-black unarmed Short Stirling 4-engined former bomber. Once after crashing his works Aston Martin and being given a real rollicking by team chief John Wyer for having done so, he replied "Bloody hell, John, when I crashed my Stirling they gave me the bloody Distinguished Flying Cross!". It was also George who told me that motoring was safe as houses just after the war "For the first time in years, nobody was shooting at us"

DCN

[Vitesse2]

In the early, jingoistic, weeks of WW2 the British motoring press was full of news of what drivers were doing to help the war effort. Most of the reports are fairly predictable, but one which caught my eye was Harry Schell, then aged 19, who was serving in a (French volunteer?) ambulance unit in Finland in late 1939.

Edit/
According to Robert Daley's "Cruel Sport" Schell was a volunteer air gunner in the Finno-Russian conflict.

[Don Capps]

'Arry ended up in the US Army at some point...

Rodger Ward was a pilot, starting in P-38's and ending up as a B-17 IP
Peter Gregg was in the USN in an intell billet
Sam Hanks served in WW2 if I recall
Hurley Haywood was in the USN in the early 70's as was Al Holbert
Ken Miles was a tank mechanic

Interesting to realize that up until perhaps the 60's & 70's that military service by athletes was not an exceptional ocurrance, whether it was in the reserves or on active duty.

[Leif Snellman]

Lord Howe was born into a famous British naval family. Long time ago here was an Admiral Howe ,famous enough to have two battleships named after him.
Lord Howe, the racing driver, served in the Navy during the First World War including an assignment on board the battleship "HMS Queen Elizabeth" during the Dardanelles campaign.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
- Peter Collins??? Hmm - that's an interesting one, off the top of my head I don't know how he escaped the net.

Went to France, didn't he? Deliberately to avoid the draft. Somehow Britain survived without him.

[Kuwashima]

Hans Klenk was pretty handy with a Messerschmitt, I do believe.

[Liam]

I remember reading the reply a driver gave to the obvious question of fatal crash's in the 50's. His reply was along the lines that most of the drivers had survived the war, and pretty much felt everything after was a bonus that they may as well enjoy.

[Hieronymus]

Jody Scheckter, as far as I know, also did some military training. Also heard the story that he was classified as AWOL for not showing up for a military camp - an extremely serious offence in the South African Defence Force in those days. According to law, all able (white) men 16 years and older had to do military service for as long as two years, plus additional service after that. Exemption, though, was given to top professional sportsmen to compete abroad (not that there were many of them).

I am still not sure if Jody was regarded as one of the "fortunate". He was generally regarded as a strong and very fit driver, which perhaps indicated that he did experience a good old "af kak" in the SADF. Maybe someone on TNF knows more.....

Jody's old Tyrrell buddy, Patrick Depailler spent six months in the French military (this is a fact).

[KJJ]

Innes Ireland was a lieutenant in the Kings Own Scottish Borderers, seconded to the Parachure Regiment. He served in Egypt circa 1954. I have seen some stuff on a Military website linking him to a special forces Mountain warfare unit. Anyone know if there’s any truth in that, might explain his ascent of the local church spire after his Flugplatzrennen win in 1961.

[Gary Davies]

Gigi Villoresi was an officer in the Italian Army, was at one point shipwrecked in the Mediterranean and ended up in Greece at the time of his country seeking an armistice.

[Gary Davies]

Was not Carroll Shelby a flyer with the USAAF in WW2?

[Pyry L]

Kimi Raikkonen finished his military service IIRC just before starting his F1 career. Dr. Giuseppe "Nino" Farina was a cavalry officer. I´m quite sure Jyrki Jarvilehto and Mika Salo also did their time in the Finnish army

[Ian McKean]

I no longer have the book, but Duncan Hamilton's "Touch Wood" tells an hilarious story involving,

a) Military service (which service I forget)
b) Boredom ...
c) ... relieved by races in the attic
d) Pink Gin
e) Missed footing (under the influence of d) above
f) Falling through the ceiling
g) Discovering the room below was the C.O.'s office
h) Saluting and walking out.

[Doug Nye]

Rob Walker's Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm experiences cover a good few pages - John Fitch's flying P38 Lightnings, I believe, Phil Walters piloting an assault glider into the cauldron of ground fire on the DZ at Arnhem...motor racing after experiences such as these was an absolute doddle...

DCN

[Richard Jenkins]

I forgot to add that Jack Fairman was one of the celebrated "Desert Rats" in WW2

[Don Capps]

Fitch was a P-51 Mustang pilot who got shot down and captured -- they got the radiator and the engine seized after losing all the coolant.

[dmj]

I wonder how no one mentioned Sir Henry Segrave yet. He was in WWI, firstly as usual soldier, later in newly founded RAF, he was wounded and had some great stories of his wartime... Actually I know both Cyril Posthumus and Eoin Young wrote about it (later wrote an article for June issue of Classic cars magazine - if someone is interested I can post these stories here).

[Ralliart]

Off the top of my head...
Jackie Ickx served in the army
Francois Cevert served in the army, driving tanks
Manfred von Brauchitsch served as an aide to a general
Alfred Neubauer, I believe, was in WWI in the army
Enzo Ferrari, reportedly, met Mussolini in Modena for the first time in 1924 and joined the Fascist party ten years later while making parts for the military six years after that
Mr. Nye - nice for you that your brother was deemed unfit due to flat feet - my best friend, who had feet as flat as a board (along with asthma) was drafted into the U.S. army and killed in Vietnam