81 replies to this topic

[Hakk]

Sauber admited talking about selling Kimi to MacLaren. He told that negotiations are to take place next week. He told this in Italian RAI broadcast.

Well, IF (very unlike if) Mika doesn't drive next year, maybe we'll see Kimi at MacLaren.

Also it was reported today that Kimi's and Peter's relationship isn't that great anymore, since Peter feels "betrayed" becouse Kimi is in his thoughts already in a more competitve car.

[HSJ]

I just opened another thread on this! Sorry, here's what I wrote, I hope the other thread is deleted:

Sorry if this is already posted by someone else, but here goes: Finnish media (MTV3) just reported that according to Italian press McLaren and Sauber are negotiating KR next week:



quote:
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Sauber-tallin johtaja Peter Sauber myöntää neuvottelevansa McLarenin kanssa Kimi Räikkösen sopimuksen myynnistä.

Italian yleisradioyhtiön RAI:n haastattelussa Peter Sauber myönsi McLarenin kiinnostuneen Kimi Räikkösen pestaamisesta.

Samalla Sauber paljasti neuvotelevansa ensi viikolla McLarenin kanssa Räikkösestä.


Sauber huomauttaa Räikkösen olevan tulevaisuuden tähti ja hän aikoo ottaa sen huomioon neuvotteluissa. Huomautus merkinnee ainakin sitä, ettei Räikkösen Sauber-sopimus katkea halvalla.


Huipputallien kiinnostus Räikköseen on tiettävästi hankaloittanut Räikkösen ja Peter Sauberin välejä, kun tallipomo on saanut havaita kultakimpaleensa lipeävän väkisin käsistä - ei tosin ilmaiseksi.



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My brief translation:
Peter Sauber admits to negotiations with McLaren concerning KR, i.e. about selling KR's contract. In an interview with the Italian RAI P. Sauber admitted McLaren's interest in hiring KR. At the same time Sauber revealed negotiating with McL about KR next week. Sauber makes it clear that KR is a star of the future and he is going to take that into account in the negotiations. The remark probably means at least, that KR's contract won't be a cheap buy. The interest by top teams toward KR has apparently caused friction in the relations between KR and Peter Sauber when the team boss has had to witness his "prize" slipping through his fingers. But not for free(!).

[HSJ]

I just tried to delete the other thread, couldn't, could the administrators please delete it?

[thistle]

So who will he replace if he's driving, not testing?
Does either article say, or speculate?

[HSJ]

Thistle, it doesn't say. KR (through his manager) has said that he is not interested in just a test seat, but only a race seat. So I think KR will race next year in any case, just that the team is uncertain. Oh man, I don't know what to think. I desperately want MH to drive at least until 03, possibly 04, and win at least one more title and many races and poles, and retire on a high, but at the same time I would be sooooo happy to see KR in the finest team on the grid, making those silver arrows flyyyyyyy past the red devils!

[pRy]

I wonder if McLaren would be prepared to say to Kimi "Ok, test in 2002, and then you have a seat in 2003" at which point they get rid of Coulthard, and Kimi and Mika drive in 2004, Hakkinen retires, and McLaren take on Justin Wilson or Jenson Button?

I dunno.. this whole silence from Hakkinen thing upsets me, why can't he just be honest. He really is hurting his fans at the moment.

[HSJ]

pRy, I think the silence is a McL thing, not a Mika thing. Apparently RD doesn't want anybody to say anything by themselves, it will be a team announcement. Suddenly Rosberg's words about DC not knowing what team he will be driving for next year are beginning to haunt us... Though it could be that RD just wants KR to kneel before him and accept a testing role! (Some fuel for RD haters!)

[pRy]

Ok here is my theory :

McLaren want to sign up Kimi as a test driver in 2002, here is their plan...

McLaren sign up Kimi as a test driver for 2002, and guarentee him a race seat in 2003.

2002 McLaren line up is : Coulthard, Hakkinen. This is to retain stability in what will be an important year for McLaren to try and regain their form.

2003.. DC leaves McLaren for a team such as Jaguar, he is offered big money, good status, and sees the chance of getting out of a situation he knows he can never win in.

2003 McLaren line up is : Raikkonen, Hakkinen. This is to allow Kimi, who now has a years testing under his belt for McLaren, to learn from Hakkinen before Hakkinen retires at the end of 2003.

2004 McLaren line up is : Raikkonen and another young driver, such as Justin Wilson, or possibly Jenson Button. Someone like that.

Quite possibly the reason for the McLaren delay is simply because they are trying to fill in a test driver role for Hakkinens replacement. It makes sense. Why bring in a brand new driver to the team now, throw him in to the race seat and then watch him struggle in 2002, a year McLaren really do need to up their game in. This way, they can best prepare for the switch. Hakkinen has alreaddy said he wants to stay at McLaren for two more years, so McLaren will be trying to best prepare for his departure.

Just a theory

[thistle]

You're right about Mika, didn't someone post that Rosberg
had said that 1st September was the deadline for Mika to re-sign?

I'd prefer McLaren to keep both MH and DC, for at least next year
anyway. DC has given them no reason to get rid of him this year, but
when has that mattered in F1?

[malc]

I can´t understand this rumour about weakening relationship with Sauber. "Kimi´s mind is already in somewhere else.." -thingie .. At least it doesn´t show in his competence.
He was having a very good race until gear-box failed him, running 7th. What does Sauber want more from him? Kimi, like everybody else is hungry for victories and of course wants to get into the very best car available. Sauber isn´t exactly the winning team and never will be.

[CaptnMark]

It's probably Mika getting replaced, not DC.

[brett_sequeira]

well i'll agree that mika is getting replaced but i wonder how effective kr is going to be does he not tend to like a car that oversteers and frankly unless some big chage takes place in the mcalren design next years car will still understeer.
and btw why would mclaren want jenson button how abou nick heidfeld and panis both ex test drivers for the team.
also as a replacement for kimi at sauber how about karthikeyan considering that kimi and karthikeyan hasve the same managaer.

[Suzy]

Now this is getting even more complicated... One minute denials, next minute admissions. What's infuriating is that Kimi's manager is denying that any discussions took place after practice in Spa on Friday - but everybody else involved has admitted it:confused:

Well, this pretty-well sounds the end for Mika. I've been suspecting it since May and all the hints coming my way haven't been very positive. Even the latest off-the-record chat on the day Keke claimed Mika had signed a contract contradicted Keke.

If I gaze into my crystal ball, I will make the following prediction: Suzy predicts that Mika HAS signed a contract with McLaren for 2002 - but NOT to race! I reckon he's accepted the advisory/test/third driver role that Norbert Haug mentioned back in May. One of Mika's gripes has been that McLaren's testing hasn't been particularly good - and if you want something done, do it yourself! That way, there is "no goodbye" (as Keke phrased it) for Mika as he'd still effectively be a member of the team, he would be working with his engineers (so he'd get them back - which he wanted), Kimi will benefit from Mika's guidance and Ron will be happy because Mika won't go to another team. As for me, well I'll have Kimi (with any luck) to squeal at and still be able to see Mika:) This is assuming that I am right of course... Please note it's my own theory and I can't guarantee its authenticity.

All the best

Suzy

[Peter Perfect]

I hope you're right Suzy, I think that although it's been good for MacLaren to have stability in their driver lineup, it's also hindered them in terms of a lack of freshness of approach. Perhaps that's why the car this year isn't so adaptable.

[coyoteBR]

Without Raikonen, can Bernoldi drive a sauber, therefore making Red Bull people happy?

More to spice up the silly season:

An unnamed middle-orient investor can ruin Diniz hopes on F-1. According to brazilian newspaper Folha de S. Paulo, this millionaire is willing to pay more money per share than Pedro Diniz, and would keep Alain Prost in charge, something the brazilian will not do.

That means probably a tought luck on Zonta, Marques and other brazilians willing to take the Prost second seat.

And would this extra money keep HHF driving?

[Mrv]

Maybe Peter Sauber is using the Kimi to Mclaren talks to get more leverage on Ferrari. All talk is that Kimi will drive for them. I don't believe it one bit that Sauber will give Kimi to Mclaren. It is just a ploy.

[AD]

And no mention of Nick Heidfeld

You outdrive your teammate, yet he gets more praise and hype than you. Even worse he gets offers from all the bigger teams. Yes Kimi is good, but the simple facts show that Nick is even better.

[Ricardo F1]

I'd say Kimi test driver 2002, MH and DC stay, DC and KR in 2003 and MH retires or becomes a part of the McLaren group. McLaren still have an option on Heidfeld after next year, so if Kimi doesn't perform as test driver then they can bring Heidfeld over with more experience at that point. Makes sense to me . . .

[RJL]

So I guess this should finally kill the Villeneuve to McLaren rumours once & for all.
;)

Kimi should not take a test seat anywhere, he's already proven he deserves a race seat.

[snow]

Here is my two cents. It's somewhat hard for me to believe that Mika would want to be a test driver. This means just as much if not more work and more time away from the family for Mika if this is the route he chooses, wouldn't it? The test driver would have to do the bulk of the testing and go to at least the majority of the races, right? I also disagree with taking the time off and coming back. I don't think it will work. David will strengthen his relationship with the team during that time and it's a "use it or lose" kind of thing too (at least in my world). Accepting this kind of "demotion" isn't a gain, sorry this how I look at it. It's like going from the dept. head MD to the senior intern.

Having a personal experience with near death too I have learned two things. One, when your number is up, it's up and it doesn't matter what your're doing and two, cut out the crap and live your life. No matter what you choose to do, there will always be tough decisions and compromises to make, it's just the way it is so deal with it and go for what you want 100 percent. If he wants to continue as a driver in F1 then take it from Michael, beat it down, knaw on it and tell the world its his (dammit);). If he wants to do something else, then go for it and be happy too. All I can possibly say to Mika is for him to be the boss of him. Do what makes him happy. Yeah, they will be folks who won't understand, but if they really support and care about you, they'll come around and accept it.

[jimm]

Originally posted by AD
And no mention of Nick Heidfeld

You outdrive your teammate, yet he gets more praise and hype than you. Even worse he gets offers from all the bigger teams. Yes Kimi is good, but the simple facts show that Nick is even better.

He should be after 5 more years in race cars and 2 more years in F1. The fact is that he is not that much better if any and Kimi had so little expereince, he barely got a SL.

[HP]

An article with Peter Sauber appeared on Sunday in a Swiss newspaper. I posted the link for that article in the thread "Mika stays".

From that interview it appears that PS is extremely unhappy about it. PS went so far to say, that the contract he has with KR is absolutely tight, and because of that he could make sure that Kimi doesn't have a seat next year at all! Strong words. Seems to be all about money, obviously McLaren doesn't want to pay as much for Kimi as they do for Mika or DC, while PS will want to make sure he get's enough money from the deal. And that will be certainly more than they pay for Mika or DC.

[HP]

Here's the link again to the above mentioned article.

http://www.tages-anz...el?ArtId=120491

[RJL]

Originally posted by jimm


He should be after 5 more years in race cars and 2 more years in F1. The fact is that he is not that much better if any and Kimi had so little expereince, he barely got a SL.

They gave him a new Mercedes? Wow that Peter Sauber must be a great guy to work for.

[Melbourne Park]

We don't know what's going on.

But some common views and some facts are:

• Miki doesn't like to develop
• RD wants to pay Mika less
• No one is signed yet
• RD and PS had a talk
• DC is a good developer

My view on McLaren and KR:
• KR would be mad not to race
• A promise to drive next year in F1 is worth little
• Promises themselves are worth little in F1
• Broken promises in F1 can be worth a lot though
• Doesn't the current McLaren tester have almost a promise to drive?
• Two Finns at McLaren: I can't see it, maybe I am a racist or is that a nationalist?
• Even simple things are starting to confuse me
• I give up, this whole thing is just too strange ...

[Hakk]

I still do think that Mika has been signed to MacLaren for next year. If Kimi comes in as a driver next year at MacLaren, I think it'll be David who is going to be replaced. This year everyone at MacLaren saw what David can REALLY do with a full backing from the team. And as we all know it wasn't that much. So maybe Ron has gave up and realized that David will never be a real winner.
Maybe DC is going to be MacLaren's new test driver.

But still... 2 Finns at MacLaren - that would be something sponsors would find hard to accept.

[Rene]

My silly season prediction is as follows...

MH and DC drive for Maclaren in 2002
MH moves to Jag for 2003
JV moves to Maclaren 2003
DC stays with Maclaren, as 2003 is bound to be his year

[Melbourne Park]

I reckon that Toyota would pay DC a small fortune to drive and develop their car. And Toyota still only have two conracted driving persons don't they. . But that's off the topic ... sorry, I am getting confused again.

[petri]

DC has not tested next years's McL while Mika has. Why? Food for
thought...

Hmm... seems like DC is going to Jaguar after all. Mika will
be Kimi's tutor in McL next year (yeah, two Finns in the same
team!) and retires after that. Mika and Kimi have spent a lot
of time together recently here in Finland - talking about what?

[Hakk]

Yeah, that is true. Mika and Kimi have spend lots of time together in Finland and also in Monaco. Kimi was on holiday with family Hakkinen in Mika's place in Finland.

It would be great, but I still doubt that there would be 2 finns at MacLaren. Even if it would be just for one year. But Petri has a point there - why they are spending so much time together?

[Melbourne Park]

I think Kimi has a Playstation 2, and he's testing it for Sony.

Its got the new Launch Control add on which Sony are developing.

The software is not suitable for adults of course.

Its the one JPM wanted, but no one would give him.

;)

[malc]

I think Kimi is in a happy positition to choose from the 2 following options.

1. Go to Mac as a test driver in 2002. Race and learn at 2003 -- >
possible WDC at 2004 or 2005!

2. Have one more Sauber year at 2002. Then to Ferrari, replace Rubens. After Michael retires, maybe after 2003 season, Kimi could fight for WDC.

Now which way sounds better? I´d say, GO TO MAC, NOW, after this season! Make your fans impatient in 2002 and blow the bank seasons after.

[HP]

Originally posted by malc
I think Kimi is in a happy positition to choose from the 2 following options.

1. Go to Mac as a test driver in 2002. Race and learn at 2003 -- >
possible WDC at 2004 or 2005!

2. Have one more Sauber year at 2002. Then to Ferrari, replace Rubens. After Michael retires, maybe after 2003 season, Kimi could fight for WDC.

Now which way sounds better? I´d say, GO TO MAC, NOW, after this season! Make your fans impatient in 2002 and blow the bank seasons after.

Kimis contact with Sauber is including 2003. So he could go straight to Ferrari after 2003. Being a test driver is a bad idea when you have at least a very decent (not top though) drive. Since he still would have to test as a driver, he get's much more mileage and track experience. Also McLaren isn't in the best position for tyres fo next year, has shown a lot of problems with reliability. I'd wait at least a year, and see whee McLaren is heading. Next year no-one expects Kimi to take the WDC, and seeing where the top teams are when he is ready for it, makes much more sense than commit himself now. Because if M&M buys Kimi out of the contract with Sauber, it will be long term, as it's not comming cheap for them. If the McLaren sucks, then he is stuck there.

Bottomline, don't sacrifice long term prospects for short term profits.

[black magic]

I wonder if mrv not correct.

even the driving style and set up kimi and ms like is similar. kimi with 1 year under ms to get used to ferrari team would be a massive career move.

?maclaren - don't they have the smell of a team on the slide? ferrari look so much more compsed and organised - on and off track - and not cause their winning but because of their ongoing development etc.

[Goggles]

Going out on a really big limb here:

For 2002--

A big shakeup at McLaren occurs: Kimi goes to McLaren as a driver, not as a tester. McLaren exercises their Mercedes option and brings Heidfeld over, too, also as a driver.

Sauber gets a works engine and Würz (maybe some cash, too).

[cygnus]

What about Alexander Wurz? If McLaren are already looking at Kimi (and maybe others), I'm curious to know what they will do with Wurz in 2002. Perhaps they'll have 2 test drivers? Wurz does pretty well in testing (whatever that is worse), and had a couple good appearances in 2000 at Benetton. *shrug*

[petri]

"If the
McLaren sucks, then he is stuck there. "

Yep, just like Mika was several years. I'd say: "cool down Kimi,
drive another year in Sauber and then try to get seat in Ferrari"
(Williams would also be better option than McL in next few years).

[Hakk]

Rumours are that Sauber is already negotiating with Heinz-Harald Frenzen about for 2002.

[malc]

Frentzen was what Peter initially wanted for 2001, but couldn´t get. So he was talked over by his own mechanics to take this Kimi rookie, who had shined in testing.

[Sid]

I think this is McLaren grand plan for 2002

Assumptions:
PS DOES NOT want to pay for one year old Ferrari engines
McLaren wants KR for 2002 and beyond

so what happens?

2002

KR goes to McLaren as test driver #2 for 2002
Sauber gets a 2 (or possibly 3 year commitment) for Mercedes engines at discounted price
MH helps KR settle down in McLaren
KR and AW do testing, a lot of testing as Ferrari has raised the bar

2003
MH retires from racing, remains in McLaren in some consultant capacity
DC leaves for another team (possibly Benetton, Jaguar, Toyota)
NH comes to McLaren to satisfy Mercedes' german driver requirement
NH & KR driver line up



feel free to tear this apart

[schumigal]

Actually, i will prefer Kimi to remain in Sauber, do another year of learning. We seen from Button that coming from a good team really flatters him. I am glad he's in Benetton for i prefer drivers to work their way, and would like Kimi to do the same. If he's that great, another year in Sauber won't diminish his reputation and won't hurt his chances of getting into a top team. Then again, perhaps going to Mclaren may end up being learning years before it gets competitive again if Mclaren do fall behind next year, which i doubt will happen.

[Hakk]

Sid may have a point in his post.

I wouldn't compare Kimi and Jenson, becouse Jenson started in a good team and he had more racing experience at that time than Kimi did when he started F1. Kimi doesn't have a that great car this year, even though Sauber seems to be a decent package, but it's no williams.

[HP]

Originally posted by Sid
Sauber gets a 2 (or possibly 3 year commitment) for Mercedes engines at discounted price

Remember it was Sauber who used the Mercedes engine first, until McLaren booted them out. So why do we expect Sauber to really want Mercedes engines? PS isn't stupid. He rather would want an up to date Ferrari engine, meaning a works engine. He might want to keep Kimi for such deal. Also with Paul Morgan's death, it remains to be seen where the Illmor (Merc) engine is heading too. Really, to make any deal with a team in slight turmoil, and that did coin the phrase "Piranha club" isn't the best idea IMO. And I'm sure Ferrari has had already some talks with Peter Sauber about Kimi.

[bystander]

If Kimi goes to McLaren to race at this moment when he is just a promising talent there's one big danger for him. If McLaren is not going to improve themselves but instead drop out from the absolute top and their drivers can't deliver good results one might say that it is the drivers to be blamed. We know how easily that happens. "He is no good - driving a Mc and can't deliver decent results" is a possible claim in such a case even the reason would be an uncompetitive car. So more safe alternative would be first prove one's talents in a team like Sauber or if choosing another team then choosing the one that has its' momentum on.

kind regards,
just a bystander

[petri]

I wonder how this bigger-than-life -hassle affects a young
driver like Kimi. JB was a big hype last year but Kimi seem
to be even bigger. Go figure: this guy drives his first season
and already he stirrs a big soup in which Mercedes, Ferrari, Sauber and God knows who else are involved!! A potential bastard,
maybe? I hope not!

[Oho]

Ave !!!

And now I have read another totally unsubstantiated rumour that David Coulthards tests for the balance of the season have been cancelled. For what it is worth he has not tested since the end of June. Perhaps Ronzo is thinking he has a better shot at getting Mika fired up again than pushing David into a real title contender postition. How was it: Form is temporary, class is permanent. Dont know though, still hoping Mika retired or took a sabatical (schizophrenic I admit) my bosses do also.

- Oho -

[Esko]

Wow - what a media savvy team we might be facing at: Ron, Mika & Kimi
Must have a sky high marketing value!

[Earthling]

U ppl r forgetting that its not Ron Dennis who calls the shots on wether Sauber get Mercedes engines, let alone a works deal. I doubt that Norbert Haug agrees to do this just to get Kimi out of Sauber and into MacLaren.

Think about how much money it would cost just to get a guy who's salary is lower than low.

[bystander]

Wow - what a media savvy team we might be facing at: Ron, Mika & Kimi

Good grief, this is astounding! There's a connection between all three of them. They all are somehow special with their way how to express their thoughts. Though all of them have a style of their own! So doesn't that give us enough evidence that Mc's line up will be Ron, MH and KH:lol:

kind regards,
just a bystander

[HSJ]

Yes, it would be a PR nightmare for McLaren if MH and KR were the drivers. Imagine the PR people there, they would be stuck with probably the two worst drivers PR-wise! RD would have to give his PR people a HUGE raise!

Someone above mentioned that both MH and KR prefer oversteer, and DC understeer. (I'm not sure whether this is true, but let's assume it is.) In that case, the logical thing would be to hire MH and KR and build the car to suit both drivers at the same time. The thing is, Mika has shown at Silverstone, and probably Barcelona and a few other occasions that even in a 3rd best (or maybe 2nd best) car he can work wonders if only it suits his driving style. So which you're going to keep: DC or MH? Remember, all you have to do is to tell AN and the rest that the car will be made to the liking of... Well, the choice is obvious, isn't it?

Could it be that Ron is only making sure KR will be driving for him in 2003? I mean, he could still let KR drive for Sauber next year, just like NH is contracted with McL and on loan at Sauber. This could be RD's tactic to keep KR away from Ferrari, AND of course make sure he gets the next great (greatest? ) driver to drive for him.