21 replies to this topic

[taran]

Certain remarks on this BB has led me to believe that Alain’s reputation has been hijacked by his shockingly poor performance as a team manager as well as his later years in F1 when he had lost some of his outright speed. A fate also undergone by Nelson Piquet.

For those not intimate with Alain’s long career, here is a short reminder. Alan entered F1 in 1980 as the golden boy of junior racing. Well sponsored by ELF, he had basically won everything that could be won. So confident was the young Alain that he even refused a part time drive in the ’79 championship in a McLaren.

He accepted a McLaren drive in 1980, the first year of Dennis as joint team manager. He took points in his first two races and went on to dominate his highly experienced teamleader John Watson. Prost then switched to Renault for 1981 as #2 to Rene Arnoux. Displaying his unrivalled ability for politicking and undermining his teammate, Alain used a combination of good luck for him and bad luck for the equally fast Arnoux to mould the team around him. He took three wins but the poor reliablity of the Turbo Renault prevented a serious championship challenge.
In 1982, Alain was equal favourite with Villeneuve but again poor reliability ended his championship hopes. The relationship with Arnoux broke down when Arnoux refused to yield when running 1-2 in France. Arnoux joined Ferrari and Prost was champion-elect for 1983. It all went wrong. Despite domineering parts of the season, Prost & Renault lost out when Brabham cheated its way to the title by running illegal fuel. Prost wanted Renault to lodge a protest by the Regie refused. They did not want the fallout of winning at the green table and feared Big Bad Bernie’s reaction if challenged. Tensions rose and Prost was fired!

Thrust on the driver’s market, McLaren was quick to dump Watson and sign Prost at a low salary as Prost had no other alternatives. In 1984, Prost again narrowly lost the title to his teammate Lauda but again managed to gain the priviliged position within the team by astute politicking. After losing to Nikki’s seasonal strategy, Prost finally made the next step and went from driving fast to driving tactical in 1985. As predicted, he cleaned up and won the title. Until that year, most insiders considered Nelson Piquet the best driver in F1. From 1985 to 1987, Alain held that position, taking a wonderfully opportunistic title in 1986.

For 1988, Prost accepted Senna at McLaren, no doubt in the assumption that he could outmanouvre the Brazilian with his superior “inter-team” skills.... But it all went wrong as Senna obsessively went after Prost and the title. As said by Watson in his end of season review: “Prost is no longer willing to drive to the maximum of his ability under all circumstances. It is the beginning of the end for any driver and it comes from being in F1 for a substantial period.” Prost had lost nothing of his technical skills and could still be unbeatable if sufficiently motivated in single races or when he drove for Ferrari in 1990 but over a season, he wouldn’t exert himself beyond certain limits. Against a still hungry Ayrton Senna, that was no longer good enough.

By the end of 1993, more titles had followed but Alain had gone the way of all great champions. He still had his wonderful skills but it was tempered by prudence and the loss of commitment or ambition.

Taking stock of Alain Prost the driver and the man, I would reach these conclusions:

Plus side
Arguably the greatest technical/development driver ever and inspiration/teacher to Senna and Hill.
The greatest tactical driver over a race distance.
Scored 4 world driver titles out of 10 possible opportunities

Down side
Egomanical (like almost all great drivers)
Slept with his best friend’s wife, hardly a gentlemanly thing to do, whatever Nigel Roebuck may think!
Far too political/unsettling to last in any team for a decent period of time.
The world’s poorest human relations skills
Couldn’t manage a team if his reputation depended on it.

By any comparison, Alain Prost belonges in the top 3 of the greatest modern Grand Prix drivers.

[theMot]

I dont care if his teams up to ****. There was never a driver like him before or since. Theres been and will be other hot heads like Senna but you'll never see another Proffessor

[selena]

He had great mechanical sympathy and was a great tactician in racing. One of the all-time greats of F1, no doubt about that.

[raceday]

Taran,

Interesting recap:up:

I watched F1 even before Prost Came along. But it was as a little boy and I dont remember very much of it. I started watching F1 closely when my favourite, Senna, came along.

I pretty much agree with what you said. The thing that could be debateable is whether Prost is the most tactical over a race distance? I think Prost himself said that he regarded Lauda as the best in that department, but that might have been just modesty?
I think MS with Brawns help might be at least as good?

[taran]

Raceday, I don't want to take anything away from Schumacher who combines shades of Prost & Senna in an explosive package.

But modern grand prix racing (since fuel stops are allowed) is basically a sprint race. Divers drive flatout, change tyres and get fuel, and repeat the exercise. Brawn helps Michael make decisions to manipulate track position but how does that compare to

a) having to make all those decisions by yourself, as drivers had to do in the 80's

b) not being able to use pit stop strategies to win races. Everything had to be done with the car you started with. That puts a premium on the set-up and the choice you made for tackling the race.

In earlier days, one had to make the fuel last the entire race, make the tyres last the entire race and make the damn car last the entire race. No 90% reliablity in those days when a top team had 100 people and a small team 7, including the secretary!!!

Noone was better than Alain in setting up a car to perform during a race under changing conditions. Lauda adopted this strategy after realising during pre-season testing in 1984 that he could not compete with Prost on speed. After losing to Lauda, Alain also started using strategy.

[Williams]

Nice to see the Professor paid his due once in a while. He seems to be the forgotten hero of Formula One.

[raceday]

Taran,

As you have pointed out, F1 has changed. Driving tactical in the 80:s is not the same thing as driving tactical in the 90:s or today. They have pitstops and the technology and the rules allows them to have very good contact between the driver and the pit through the radio. My point is that I think that MS and Brawn together has explored the current conditions in F1 to a level that I find arguably equal on a tactical level to what Prost did in on his own in his day.

[Nomad]

Prost, still my hero after all these years.
He alone evoked my passion for F1 and 1992 was a dismal year, 1993 the final truimph, leaving me a neutral observer searching for a replacement that will never truly be found.
Team management is not something I would have suggested for him and so it is proving but nothing can take away the many years of pleasure I gained from being a passionate one-eyed Prost fan

[Rene]

Prost is my fav driver of all time (followed closely by GV), I thought his ability to save a car was amazing....he could drive bloody fast, never missing a gear, never over-reving the engine...and able to put in fast laps at the end to win....he drove with his head more than with his heart....I was very sad that he didn't win the WDC for Ferrari (thanks to Mansel!)...it was close though...

[LuckyStrike1]

Prost is a fave driver of mine but not a fave team boss ...

but I hate to see him struggle like this though

[Boing Ball]

I guess it is not a surprise why Prosts driving career doesn't get mentioned so often -- It must be because of the way he drove, he could smash the lap record and make it look like he was on a warm up lap! He was definitely a robot, being able to repeat exactly the same performance lap after lap.

[ebe]

Prost is an all time great who ended his career as a WDC.

His abilities or success as team boss cannot deminish his great driving.


In times of endless repeated Anti Schumacher or praising Senna threads almost any other great driver (than MS or AS) is in jepardy to become a 'fallen idol' ...... in this bb.

[Rene]

Originally posted by Boing Ball
I guess it is not a surprise why Prosts driving career doesn't get mentioned so often -- It must be because of the way he drove, he could smash the lap record and make it look like he was on a warm up lap! He was definitely a robot, being able to repeat exactly the same performance lap after lap.

Well said!!!

[magic]

although it's hard to forgive him for making f1racing boring in the middle of the 80's and for ramming senna in suzuka'89, i must say that now senna is gone i start to appreciate his accomplishments more each day.

i cannot blame him for making his rivals look stupid and slow.
rivals inc lauda, rosberg, nige and piquet.
he was the best in his era, and one of the greatest ever.

i'm still annoyed that his victories are not fully appreciated today.
http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=27434

[vroom-vroom]

Originally posted by taran
Down side
Egomanical (like almost all great drivers)
Slept with his best friend’s wife, hardly a gentlemanly thing to do, whatever Nigel Roebuck may think!
Far too political/unsettling to last in any team for a decent period of time.
The world’s poorest human relations skills
Couldn’t manage a team if his reputation depended on it.

Lauda and Prost - the Evil Twin Rats. Ten bucks on Lauda sleeping with his wife's best friend too (or was she Rahal's? )

[Pieter]

Originally posted by taran
Arnoux joined Ferrari and Prost was champion-elect for 1983. It all went wrong. Despite domineering parts of the season, Prost & Renault lost out when Brabham cheated its way to the title by running illegal fuel. Prost wanted Renault to lodge a protest by the Regie refused. They did not want the fallout of winning at the green table and feared Big Bad Bernie’s reaction if challenged. Tensions rose and Prost was fired!

From what I have read not only Brabham but also Renault and Ferrari used 'special' fuel in the last part of that season. And that in the race in South Africa all other teams were allowed to use fuel with a higher octane number that usual. Thereby undoing the advantage in fuel the 3 big teams had.

[baddog]

Lots of us wont ever forget who was the all round best racing driver of the late 80s-early 90s period.

Shaun

[magic]

most of us won't ever forget who was beating the all round best racing driver of the late 80s-early 90s period at every given oppertunity in an equal car.

but then again prost ruled f1 from '81 to '87 without banging, ramming, help of a brilliant strategydirector, ducking strong teammates or illegal stuff.

[palmas]

Fallen - yes, a bit
Hero - No , not really, not for me.

I prefer heart over performance. There were and are drivers that make me feel the race and usually don't get podium.

Prost a winner, thats all...

[madmac]

The Skills that served him well as a driver seem to hinder him as a manager. He pissed his mechanics off so much they even had a bit of a strike, why Prost ever thought he could cut it as a team boss beats the hell out of me. He started the same year as JYS and look at the difference between the two teams.

Top driver, crap boss. Fallen Idol ? no, I dont associate Prost the driver & Prost the team boss because they are poles apart.

[mhferrari]

Stop using that bloody word! Don't use idol, use hero (although that truly doesn't work either), or something else, but not idol.

[HP]

If the point system of today would have been in use in AP's time, he'd be a 6-times WDC. I wonder how people would think of him then.