35 replies to this topic

[Math Soucy]

I've very much enjoyed the Atlas article on Phil Hill's championship season and it was interesting to learn that while Ferrari often fielded four cars, in one instance the fourth Ferrari entrant was a sharknose painted Belgian yellow, since its racing driver had been a Belgian. I have wondered whether this was an option (driver could choose designated color of his homeland or strictly the color of the country of the constructor). In addition to the obvious British green, Italian red, German white/silver, French Blue, has anyone a list of the "official national colors" for the participating nations? Thanks.

[Scudetto]

Originally, national colors were as follows:
France was blue
Germany white
Belgium yellow
Britain green
America red.

The fact that no Americans made much of an impact in Europe resulted in red being taken over by the Italians - which is why today Ferraris are red.

German cars were white until 1934 when Mercedes-Benz decided to save weight by not painting its racing machines and Ferdinand Porsche, the Auto Union designer, decided to follow suit because he had minimalist tendencies. And so Germany's national color has become silver.

When American cars did race, such as Dan Gurney's Eagles, the color scheme was typically blue/white stripes.

Japan, with Honda's 60's foray in to F1 were white.

[cjpani]

Mexico = Gold

cheers
cj

[mhferrari]

Wow Scudetto, I thought Italy was always red and the US was always white and blue.

[Math Soucy]

Thank you, Scudetto for the info. I once read that the German Grand Prix racing team appeared at an event and were overweight, and it had been hypothesized that if the paint were removed, then the cars would be under the allowable weight limitation. The team frantically responded and scraped the white paint from the cars' chassis leaving the bare metal which was silvery in tone, and the remaining races that season the AAA cars and others would appear without any paint, just the silver chassis. Is this story, to your knowledge, apocryphal, or true?

[merlyn6]

I finally found this on NationalThe chart lists the racing colors of each country as assigned by the C.S.I. The car number and its background color, a necessary aid to identity, are made to contrast as much as possible to aid race officials and lap scorers. Colors assigned to chassis or underframe in the chart are now applied to stripes or trim.

COUNTRY COLORS OF CAR NUMBERS

Argentina Body: blue Red on white Hood: yellow Chassis: black

Belgium Body: yellow black

Brazil Body: pale yellow black Chassis and wheels:green

Canada Body: green white Stripes: white

Chile Body: red half blue- Hood: blue half red or Underframe: white all red on white

Cuba Body: yellow white on black Hood: black

Czechoslovakia Body: white blue Hood: blue and white Underframe: red

Egypt Pale violet red on white

Finland Black blue on white

France Blue white

Germany White red

Great Britain Green white

Holland Orange white


Hungary Body, front: white black Body, rear: green Hood: red

Irish Free State Green with horizontal white band of orange around body

Italy Red white

Luxembourg Pearlgray white on red

Mexico Gold white on black

Monaco White with red hori- black on white zontal band around body

Poland Body and hood: white red Underframe: red

Portugal Body and hood: red white Underframe: white

Scotland Green white

South Africa Body: Gold black on white Hood: green

Spain Hood: yellow black on yellow Body and chassis: red white on red

Sweden Body and hood, lower white part:blue-upper:yellow Three cross bands of blue on top of hood

Switzerland Hood: white black Body and underframe:red

Thailand Body and hood: white on blue pale blue with yellow horizontal band around body and hood Wheels: pale yellow

United States Body and hood: white blue on white Underframe: blue

Venezuela Body: white; Stripe:green

[merlyn6]

Originally posted by Math Soucy
Thank you, Scudetto for the info. I once read that the German Grand Prix racing team appeared at an event and were overweight, and it had been hypothesized that if the paint were removed, then the cars would be under the allowable weight limitation. The team frantically responded and scraped the white paint from the cars' chassis leaving the bare metal which was silvery in tone, and the remaining races that season the AAA cars and others would appear without any paint, just the silver chassis. Is this story, to your knowledge, apocryphal, or true?

I read that also, I believe it was the Swiss Grand Prix, and the paint removal was done in a shop in Friburg

[Pete Stanley]

New Zealand : orange

This is why the McLarens are usually orange when they are unveiled.

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by Pete Stanley
New Zealand : orange

This is why the McLarens are usually orange when they are unveiled.

they are?

[cjpani]

Originally posted by Math Soucy
Thank you, Scudetto for the info. I once read that the German Grand Prix racing team appeared at an event and were overweight, and it had been hypothesized that if the paint were removed, then the cars would be under the allowable weight limitation. The team frantically responded and scraped the white paint from the cars' chassis leaving the bare metal which was silvery in tone, and the remaining races that season the AAA cars and others would appear without any paint, just the silver chassis. Is this story, to your knowledge, apocryphal, or true?

True, hence the "silver arrows" nickname
cj

[Don Capps]

Here is some discussion on this topic:

http://www.atlasf1.c...national colors

[Williams]

Originally posted by Pete Stanley
New Zealand : orange

This is why the McLarens are usually orange when they are unveiled.

Originally posted by Nustang70

they are?

There's been couple of seasons where the Macs have been tested prior to the "official" unveiling, during which period they ran in the orange livery.

[clickhappy]

[Bex37]

Australia

Body: VB beer can green.
Wheels: XXXX beer can gold.

[Flying Panda]

Australia - Dark Green, horizontal gold stripe.

Body: VB beer can green.
Wheels: XXXX beer can gold.

Originally posted by Pete Stanley
New Zealand : orange

This is why the McLarens are usually orange when they are unveiled.

Not true. When Bruce McLaren began the team all those years ago the cars were oragne simply because he liked the colour, not because of nationality. Orange was always the Dutch National racing colour. Weather McLaren still launch the cars orange for rememberace of Bruce, or simply a publicity stunt, i do not know.

I do believe New Zelands National colours were Black with a bit of Silver.

Also not listed.
Austria - Blue and white, Red number on White back.
Bulgaria - Green with white bonnet, Red number on White back.
Estonia - Blue, white and black, Black number on White back.
Latvia - Black with white bonnet, Black number on white back.
Lithuania - Yellow and green squares, Red number.
Romania - Dark blue and red, Yellow number
Tunisia - Maroon with white stripe, White number on black back.

There were a few Rhodesian and Uruagui entries in the early years, anybody know those colours?

[schumilover]

Originally posted by merlyn6



Irish Free State Green with horizontal white band of orange around body

thats so wierd was accosted the other day by to massive greasy beardie northerners roaring about me being a freestater. took me half an hour to figure it out.FYI free stae was a political label during the trasitionary period between occupation and independance.
um how exactly does that white band of orange work then.

[Rob G]

Math Soucy, Merlyn6:

The race in question was actually the 1934 Eifelrennen, held at the Nurburgring in the spring.

[Rob29]

I have never heard of 'Irish Free State' Green either! Thought British Racing Green originated in Ireland in 1903,when it was all part of the UK,and the only place that would allow a race. Scotland also never had an official color as it is not a nation.Scottish teams adopted dark blue in the 50s.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Rob29
I have never heard of 'Irish Free State' Green either! Thought British Racing Green originated in Ireland in 1903,when it was all part of the UK,and the only place that would allow a race.

As BRG, I obviously have to post something on this thread!

I understand that British Racing Green actually originated from the colours in which the Napier company painted their cars back in the 1900s - somewhere amongst my stuff, I have a leaflet that describes the history of this, but I can't find it. They have been waiting with bated breath (or probably they haven't) in the Nostalgia Forum for this, but I have not been able to deliver. Time for another search!!!

[garth_b]

I have to disagree with you Flying Panda. I have read somewhere in a NZ publication that the reason Bruce raced in Orange was because it was the colour assigned to NZ for motorracing. I would agree that now it would probably be Black and White as those are the absence of colour and pure colour that we most relate to. ;) I thought the orange colour for NZ was strange too.

[Rob29]

Commonwealth racing colours were asigned in 1958.
Australia: Green & Gold
NZ: Green & Silver
South Africa: Green & Buff

[Rob29]

The newest list of colors I can find is from 1977 FIA Year book.Apendix'I' seems to have been deleted from the rule book after that,so this thread belongs in the Nostalgia Forum!
Add
Uruguay-pale Blue with large red band around the lower part of bonnet.
Greece-very pale blue-with 2 lengthwise white stripes on bonnet.

[confucius]

Originally posted by Rob29
Commonwealth racing colours were asigned in 1958.
Australia: Green & Gold
NZ: Green & Silver
South Africa: Green & Buff

What the hell kinda colour is 'buff'? Beige of some sort?

[Math Soucy]

Why was Canada excluded from the 1958 Commonwealth color designation? Also, is it true that F1 has a rule preventing any team other than Ferrari from displaying an all-red livery?

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by BRG
As BRG, I obviously have to post something on this thread!

I understand that British Racing Green actually originated from the colours in which the Napier company painted their cars back in the 1900s - somewhere amongst my stuff, I have a leaflet that describes the history of this, but I can't find it. They have been waiting with bated breath (or probably they haven't) in the Nostalgia Forum for this, but I have not been able to deliver. Time for another search!!!

Irish green is actually much lighter than BRG (color not poster ;) ) My memory recalls 20's Bentleys as originators of BRG color (or colour if you wish). I have a detailed 1:24 model of Blower Bentley in correct BRG - it is very dark, almost black shade of green, they used to paint wheel spokes in it as well.

[BRG]

Originally posted by gray_cat
correct BRG - it is very dark, almost black shade of green

That's absolutely right, British Racing Green is a very dark green, although the accepted shade seems to have got gradually lighter over the years. The colour on the current Jaguars is defintiely not BRG. I wonder if the green that the early Jordans used is in fact the pukka Irish national racing livery? It was a much more of a grass-green shade, and looked very attractive.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Math Soucy
Why was Canada excluded from the 1958 Commonwealth color designation? Also, is it true that F1 has a rule preventing any team other than Ferrari from displaying an all-red livery?

Don't think Canada had any racing ,or drivers in 1958.Earliest record I have is when Mosport Park opened in 1961. Another curiosity is that commonwealth drivers were eligable for the British drivers championship(BRDC Gold Star)but Canadians do not appear to have participated in this.Irish were thrown out when free State become republic in 1948.South Africa also kicked out I guess when that country was ejected from the commonwealth.
As to red cars in F1 I know of no current rule on colors.Dallara ran a mainly red car in the Bernie era,but the BAR 2 tone horror raised objection,maybe bringing the sport open to ridicule?

[GraDee]

Originally posted by Rob29
I have never heard of 'Irish Free State' Green either! Thought British Racing Green originated in Ireland in 1903,when it was all part of the UK,and the only place that would allow a race. Scotland also never had an official color as it is not a nation.Scottish teams adopted dark blue in the 50s.

I'm not an expert on this topic yet but from what I can remember of the Irish History course....

The "Free State" was the name the British gave our 26 counties when they were separated from the remaining 6 (now Northern Ireland), more than likely to avoid "officially" giving Ireland the "Republic" title it was looking for and had been declared since 1916.

A bit like how Britain now calls the Republic "Eire".
Éire is in act the gaelic word for the entire Island of Ireland but for some reason we are given the title Eire by Britain meaning the 26 counties so they don't ahve to use the words "Republic of Ireland".

Anyway to get back to the point, this was all going on in the early 1900's up to the mid - 1920's. Around that time we'd ahve been the "Free State" and shortly afterwards we had our first GP at the Phoenix Park. So supposedly these colour schemes we're being devised around teh 1920's-30's thus it got that name....

Now, thats a bit of History..I hope I got it right, I'm a bit rusty but you get the jist.

Oh and to answer the question, the orange band would probably be to signify to green white and oragne of the tri-colour since un-official the Republic was declared in 1916 though officially it came later.

[BRG]

Originally posted by GraDee
A bit like how Britain now calls the Republic "Eire".

Do we? All 60 million of us? I am looking at the British HM Diplomatic Service Overseas list, which lists all of the UK's Embassies etc and this shows your country as "Ireland". Happy now?

[gray_cat]

Even Inspector Morse was heard saying "Ireland, er... republic that is"

[Elspeth]

In the mid 60s there was an article in Road & Track about national colors.I will try to find & post it. I do remember it said what is usually called British Racing Green was Napier Green.

The 'rules' for national colors have no doubt changed, but it is an interesting look back.

[Crazy Canuck]

Originally posted by confucius


What the hell kinda colour is 'buff'? Beige of some sort?

You’re correct, buff is a very light shade of beige or sand. It's very close to the colour of caucasian skin.

CC

[GraDee]

Originally posted by BRG
Do we? All 60 million of us? I am looking at the British HM Diplomatic Service Overseas list, which lists all of the UK's Embassies etc and this shows your country as "Ireland". Happy now?

Sorry, didn't mean anything by it... just a funy little fact.

The word Éire and Eire have developed into slightly different meanings to some people... no real point, just an observation.

[garth_b]

Math Soucy

If you go back to 1998/99 the Williams team ran an all red livery under Winfield sponsorship. It wasn't the same colour red as Ferrari but was close enough for commentators to get confused. I was watching a tape of the 98 Suzuka race the other day and Brundle first attributed a passing manoeuvre to Villeneuve and then realised it was Schumacher(M).

Also the Ferrari is not an all red livery. The front and rear wings are predominantly white as is the engine cowling (when the Marlboro logo is not there). I would suggest it is going to be difficult to tell the Ferrari and Toyota teams apart next year from some angles. Even though Toyota has that big splash of white down the side where the Panasonic logo is situated.

[schumilover]

Originally posted by BRG
Do we? All 60 million of us? I am looking at the British HM Diplomatic Service Overseas list, which lists all of the UK's Embassies etc and this shows your country as "Ireland". Happy now?

What's your problem

Gradee i think you'll find that the treaty was enacted in 1922 and independance proclaimed in 47 .english would have used the term freestate during this period.as far as im aware Éire is the ancient preopression name for home.after the goddess uire.
i think your missguided on that count.A bit of a stretch for 60 million english to recall.
and as i have said before unionist use the term freestate to avoid acknowledgeing the republic.

[GraDee]

Apologies...
Like I said...my recoolection of the history wasn't 100% accurate I know...

Sorry to offend anyone, didn't mean anything by it.