23 replies to this topic

[Indian Chief]

In pre-1994 races, were the drivers able to take Tamburello without lifting? If so, was it like Eau-Rouge where the drivers were in a dilemna on whether or not to take it flat?

[Blade]

it depends on the surface and the line u take.

Tamburello could easily be taken flat out but if u hit one of the slight bump then you would be out of shape.

bye for now

[Peeko]

Flat out baby

[silver fan]

Easy flat. Makes you wonder how a driver could possibly "drop the ball" there.

[Witt]

Speaking of the corner, i think it's time they restore it to it's natural beauty. The cars are soooooo much safer now compared to 94 it's not funny. I even read somewhere that Bernie Ecclestone himself wants more corners opened up back to the original self, because he thinks the cars today are safe enough to handle the corners in question.

[rock]

Indian.

There is hell of a difference b/w eau rouge and tamburello. I don't know your GP experience but if you happen to have seen a race at Imola pre-1994, a car with a good balance will go flat out on the inside of the corner and a car with under-steer or bad balance would be nearer to the outside.

[BRG]

Tamburello was always a safe (and flat-out) corner in itself - what wasn't safe was that for years the FIA allowed a 180mph bend to have only a limited runoff to a concrete wall with no gravel trap and no tyre wall.

Even after Berger was nearly barbequed there (but mercifully walked away unscathed), the FIA and the circuit owners did nothing to improve it. So eventually, we got unlucky and a simple and unchallenging bend claimed one of the best drivers of all time. With some decent safety precautions there, Ayrton Senna would still be with us.

The people that the Italians should have put on trial where the FIA and the circuit owners for gross negligence. But don't Ferrari own the circuit - maybe that explains it...

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Jhope]

1- There is NO room for run-oof area at tamburello. There is a river right behind it.

2-If there is no room for run-off, bring the walls very very close to the track. THis will prevent the cars from spinning in an awkward direction, as well as stoping them from increasing their speed while spinning.

3-I WANT TAMBURELLO BACK!

[BRG]

I'd rather fall into the river than hit the concrete wall...

But there was plenty of room for a tyrewall and we never even got that. And I agree, a wall close up is better, but we didn't get that either. All we got was complacency from the FIA (who were probably more worried about important things like the colour of the toilet paper in the corporate hospitality units) until Senna died, then, quick!! knee-jerk reaction, put in another chicane and everything will be alright...



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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Jhope]

in 1993 there was a tire wall. but for some reason, it was removed for 1994. ****! I just realized this now. I've watched the 93 and 94 review tapes, and I never made a comparison then. I'll have to look it over when I get home from work!!!

This is going to get me going ALL fricken day now. I may be completely wrong, and in this case, please let me be wrong!

[Ellen2]

Tamburello pre-ssenna's accident only looked like a turn to us, but with an F1 it was basically a flat-out straight. That's why they would arrive at the Tosa breaking at 190mph and there was a lot of passing there. It was one of the most spectacular spots in F1, of course now is nothing, with the chicane at Tamburello they arrive at Tosa at low speed

[BRG]

I don't think there was a tyre wall when Berger went off there, maybe they put one in after that accident? But why was it taken away again in time for Ayrton's crash?

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Ellen2]

They crashed in two entirely different spots. Berger didn't even start Tamburello, he just went straight before he started the left turn.

Senna was coming out when his car went the opposite direction.

[silver fan]

It's ironic that after Berger's accident in '89 Senna was one of the drivers that suggested that the wall be moved closer to the track or failing that, run the track out closer to the wall. His reasoning was that if a car left the road and subsequently hit the wall the angle of impact would be less severe. The configeration of Tamburrello up until May '94 was such that the run off area was inadequate to allow the car to slow down but often allowed enough time for the car to get seriously out of shape. Piquet's accident in '87 is a good demonstration of this, his Williams hit the wall backwards but actually left the track pointing in roughly the right direction.

[Pete Stanley]

I'd rather hit the concrete wall than go into the river!!

If there must be an impact, I'd rather hit something solid than something soft. Anything soft will grab on to the car, slowing it very quickly. This increases the g loading considerably, which is not healthy for the driver.

Also, I believe Senna was right about moving the wall closer to the track at Tamburello. The impact angles would indeed be better, that is to say shallower.



[This message has been edited by Pete Stanley (edited 03-23-2000).]

[magnum]

i do recall there being a stream behind the tamburello which meant that the run-pff could never be widened.

[silver fan]

Bugger it, just get rid of all the walls everywhere. The sight of an F1 car losing it coming out of the tunnel at Monaco and flying into the harbour or better still into the back of one of those yachts moored in the harbour, festooned with topless babes would make for great television.

[Witt]

Olivier Panis will tell you what happens when you put tires on a close wall in a fast corner.

The Albert Park Circuit was designed with keeping the walls close to the circuit, which the FIA accepted and seem to have no problem with. Why couldn't the guys at Imola do the same thing?

Another thing, i know they can't extend the run off at Tamburelo, but why the hell can't they extend the run off at Villeneuve? That might bring back, as Ellen described, some of the magic into Tosa.

[Carmelo]

BRG,
You get quite a few things completely and utterly wrong in your post.
Firstly, the run-off at Tamburello can not be widened because there is a river on the other side
Secondly, the Imola circuit is NOT owned by Ferrari

[Williams]

BRG I don't think safety measures at Tamburello had anything to do with Senna's death, which was caused by a freak accident in which a piece of suspension rod penetrated his helmet. Otherwise, he probably would have walked away.

Indian, I think Eau Rouge and Tamburello are quite different. The problem with Eau Rouge is that at the end of it you come to the top of the hill just as you begin a left turn onto the next straight. Consequently there is a loss of grip just when you need it most. In older cars, this minor loss of grip was not so much of a problem, but with the marginal grip currently available on grooved tires, taking Eau Rouge flat is probably no longer practical. This was attested to by none other than Jean Alesi, when he commented on JV's foolishness of last season.

[This message has been edited by Williams (edited 03-24-2000).]

[Ellen2]

Imola is only named after Enzo and Dino Ferrari, but it has no relationship with the company.

The wall cannot be moved because the river Santerno is behind it!!!

I drove through Eau Rouge in a BMW. What is amazing there (i was a passenger, riccardo patrese was driving). What is amazing that spot is that after catching a lot of speed driving down the hairpin, you have an easy left turn that you take flat out, but as you are at the limit, it is very hard and breathtaking to then deal with the right turn before the straight. It's hard to explain. Eau Rouge is a kid's task at low speed, it's not even a real turn, but at full speed with all the G force pressing you in one direction you need to then go the opposite direction. At full speed it's awesome. I cannot even imagine that spot on an F1 car

[MattB]

BRG,
Berger was injured in his wreck before entering Tamburello. He suffered broken ribs and severe burns on his hands which kept him out of the car for some time. He also sufferred with chronic head aches for some time.

[Eric McLoughlin]

I would imagone that one of the main difficulties negotiating Eau Rouge at high speed must be the bottoming caused by the dip. Surely this must unload weight off the wheels and make the car toboggan on its underside. Even though its only a fraction of a second, its just when you need maximum steering responsiveness as you change direction to exit the kink.

[Jhope]

The run-off at Villeneuve cannot be extended either. The reason is that there is a hill right behind the corner. This hill is part if the track that starts at Tosa and Leads up to Piratela. That's one reason. I always thought that maybe Tamurello should have always had someking of Modification done to it. Maybe making the corner into a 4th or 5th gear corner would have made more sense than having a Chick-cane there. Same goes for Villeneuve.