22 replies to this topic

[shaggy]

As opposed to open wheel drivers, Nascar drivers sit way too close to the wheel.

In CART and F1, the drivers sit so far back that their arms are practically straight into the wheel (which is how i drive). On the other hand, in Nascar, all the drivers sit so close that their forearms are at 90 degrees to the wheel - their elbows almost touch the lower part of the steering wheel.

Is there a reason for this ?

At first I thought that it may have something to do with ovals; but, they drive the same way on road courses.
It would appear to me that with your arms straight out, as is done in CART and F1, you would have more control and faster reaction times.

Am I missing something obvious or what ? Does anyone know a good reason for this "technique" ?

shaggy

[Hurricane]

Yeah really, it's like they are driving a bus. I bet it feels the same...haha..
Not sure how anyone can actually watch that stuff? I mean a guy tries to pass someone for the lead if they don't make it stick they go all the way back 45th. What kind of racing is that? Great Racing!!

[RiverRunner]

My guess is because so many of them are so old that they are not really sitting so close to wheel as they are sitting just close enough to see their gauges.
After all spectacles look silly on a race driver ;)

[Julius]

No power steering coupled with a big car - it takes a lot of effort to turn the wheel and being closer helps ease the burden.

Simple as that.

[George Bailey]

Is there any choice in terms of the angle of your arms in f1 or cart? If you tried to get your elbows close to the wheel in f1, they'd end up in your gut. I'd guess in nascar, since you do have room to put your arms where you choose, they end up where you're most comfortable for a 3 hour drive.

BTW Hurricane, if you want anyone to believe you've actually watched a sport you're criticizing, you might at least try and get the number of competitors correct.;)

[KenC]

Originally posted by shaggy
A...
At first I thought that it may have something to do with ovals; but, they drive the same way on road courses.
It would appear to me that with your arms straight out, as is done in CART and F1, you would have more control and faster reaction times.

Am I missing something obvious or what ? Does anyone know a good reason for this "technique" ?

shaggy

CUP races are much longer than CART or F1. They sit close to the wheel for comfort reasons, as one is able to use shoulder muscles when sitting that close. In CUP, it's always comfort over safety. Sitting that close leaves one much more vulnerable to hitting the wheel with one's head, as has been shown.

[scokim]

You can notice that Senna in his latter racing days (last 1-2 yrs at mclaren) also sit closer to the steering wheel.
Don't know why though.

[wati]

Originally posted by shaggy
As opposed to open wheel drivers, Nascar drivers sit way too close to the wheel.

In CART and F1, the drivers sit so far back that their arms are practically straight into the wheel (which is how i drive). On the other hand, in Nascar, all the drivers sit so close that their forearms are at 90 degrees to the wheel - their elbows almost touch the lower part of the steering wheel.

Is there a reason for this ?

shaggy

That's not true. If you take a closer look, you'll notice that in F1 the drivers also have the steering wheel very close to them. If you are closer to the wheel you have better control, you can react faster than with arms straight.

Wattie

[A3]

Originally posted by wati


That's not true. If you take a closer look, you'll notice that in F1 the drivers also have the steering wheel very close to them. If you are closer to the wheel you have better control, you can react faster than with arms straight.

Wattie

Exactly. that's what I wanted to say. Almost every racing driver has his steering wheel close to them.

look at this:

[wati]

Originally posted by A3


Exactly. that's what I wanted to say. Almost every racing driver has his steering wheel close to them.

look at this:

Hehe, I was just looking for a picture like that. Here's another:

[img]http://www.forix.com...07_gstand_2.jpg[img]

[Spunout]

F1 drivers do not have arms even close to straight - that is simply an extremely wrong way to drive a car (sorry Shaggy ). No race car driver sits far from steering wheel because it gives less control and feel (and slower reaction times) and is bad for the back&shoulders&neck. This is something that can´t be argued. If sitting far from wheel feels more comfortable it´s just because of being used to driving in a wrong way. There is a reason why even drivers schools teach that you should not sit far from steering wheel and never have your arms straight. That might look more "cool" but good it´s not. Try it yourself and after you get used to it I´m sure you can see (or feel!) the difference. Of course it might be that you are living in an area where car control is not needed (good roads and no show or ice), but at least in where I live it is logical to sacrifice "cool style to drive" for the better car control.

[Locai]

The answer to this is simple:

Reach forward, straighten your arms, and place your hands on the sides of your monitor.

Now just sit like that for the next 2-3 hours.


Nobody in their right mind would try to drive any race with their arms out straight.

[WillieF1]

Originally posted by Locai
The answer to this is simple:

Reach forward, straighten your arms, and place your hands on the sides of your monitor.

Now just sit like that for the next 2-3 hours.


Nobody in their right mind would try to drive any race with their arms out straight.

[shaggy]

Thanks everyone.

Well, I did not mean "straight" when I said "straight

What I meant was that, compared to Nascar, I do sit farther back. In fact, I have sat in cars where the seat is so close to the steering wheel that I just have to move back. It is not just the seating position, I just cannot move my arms as well if they are so close to the wheel.

Oh well, who knows ? Maybe I just picked a wrong habit at an early age and I am accustomed to it by now. Obviously, I do have a bend in the arms when I drive, but I just cannot see how you can rest your arms on the wheel and still move around or avoid a crash - they do it, so more power to them

Anyway, it bothered me and I just wanted other people's opinion.
Thanks.

shaggy

[TAB666]

Originally posted by shaggy
As opposed to open wheel drivers, Nascar drivers sit way too close to the wheel.

In CART and F1, the drivers sit so far back that their arms are practically straight into the wheel (which is how i drive). On the other hand, in Nascar, all the drivers sit so close that their forearms are at 90 degrees to the wheel - their elbows almost touch the lower part of the steering wheel.

Is there a reason for this ?

At first I thought that it may have something to do with ovals; but, they drive the same way on road courses.
It would appear to me that with your arms straight out, as is done in CART and F1, you would have more control and faster reaction times.

Am I missing something obvious or what ? Does anyone know a good reason for this "technique" ?

shaggy

This is not only in NASCAR. They sit close to the wheel in other classes like BTCC and DTM. I think its better to sit close.
But it isnt possible to sitt close to the wheel in an open wheel car.
There isnt any room for the arms to bend

[Manson]

Originally posted by Locai
The answer to this is simple:

Reach forward, straighten your arms, and place your hands on the sides of your monitor.

Now just sit like that for the next 2-3 hours.


Nobody in their right mind would try to drive any race with their arms out straight.

Moss used to do it and when ask why, he said it made him look cool (my words, not his).

[merlyn6]

I think it's because they only make small movements of the wheel, but they make a lot of them. They do have power steering, not so much because of the force required, but because the ratio can be made much faster, and the power assist overcomes the increased leverage. They also sit bolt upright.

[MarkWRX]

Don't know about NASCAR, but I have read that in BTCC, driver's seating position is somewhat determined by trying to get the CG and center of balance down.

A long time ago, I used to drive straight arm style, because that is what I saw the road racers do on TV and in movies. Of course, I was driving a Fiat 850 Spyder at the time and it required only a light touch.

I tend to sit closer now, as it is more comfortable. Not as close as NASCAR drivers, though, that's for sure. I don't want my nose broken by the airbag if something bad happens.

Mark

[Schummy]

In rally cars drivers usually are really close to the wheel, and I suppose those guys know how to drive (Makinen, McRae, Sainz,...);) . The same in touring car, etc (at least, it is what I have watched). In fact "straight" arms seem to be a required position in earlier F1 cars, not a choosen position. Driving a street car with straight arms is a bit like driving a street car in a semi horizontal position: if can look "cool" but mainly is laughable ;)
(sorry shaggy, I don't try to be harsh )

[mhferrari]

NASCAR cars have power steering.

[goodbuddy]

It might be because they have to steer
with their knees while they eat their
BigMac meals exiting the pits.

[obi-one]

Not exactly!

It has more to do with the fact that they need to sit upright because their beer bellies require too much arm legnth to reach around compared to a reclined seating position.

[HP]

The position really depends on your body height. If you are a tall person, you end up being further away from the steering wheel.

a) Because your leg's have to fit in comfortably too. Try to use the brakes in racing cars, if your legs feel not comfortable too. Alternatively you just feel squeezed in, and have to endure several G's.

b) Tall people have longer arms as well. The need to be further back from the sterring wheel.