59 replies to this topic

[tim]

According to this story on the BBC's web site, the boss of Red Bull is planning to dump his share in Sauber and exercise an option to buy Arrows. He wants to make it an-all American team with US drivers, an engine from GM or Ford and US sponsors. He may exercise this option fairly soon, so says the Beeb.

Hmmm... interesting. I wonder what'll happen to Mr Freakin' Best? Retirement? Minardi? Sports cars?

[Ross Stonefeld]

What a dumb idea. Ill keep my distance of *that* plan thank you very much

[tifoso]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
What a dumb idea. Ill keep my distance of *that* plan thank you very much

Even if they call you up and offer you a seat?;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

At that point Id change my passport and if they still wanted me, Id sign

[Shiftin]

http://www.f1total.c.../01100706.shtml

This site also mentions it. But it's in German......and I am not so I can't translate it. (well maybe I could but it would take me to long)

Well that Dietrich Mateschitz sure as hell looks like a mean *(*&:"L":L<.




WTF are u looking at?

[tim]

Babelfish produced this:

For months it was only a rumor, now wants talks bulletin boss Dietrich Mateschitz its dream into the reality to transfer and in the formula 1 " talks bulletin ALL America team " to construct, in order with it its billions-worth Energy drink particularly in the USA better marked out to be able. That announced the Austrian in an interview with the Austrian news magazine ' format '. A third of total sales at a value of 1,1 billion euro generated talk bulletin at present in the USA.

In order to be able to carry out the project, the head of the company wants in Fuschl, in which proximity of Salzburg, settled enterprise the Arrows - team take over, which he supports since start of the season already financially. Arrows is since 1978 in the formula 1 and holds the sad record of 370 starts without only one victory. Team head Tom Walkinshaw, which bought the team 1996, can hope now that Arrows becomes a more competitive team.

Mateschitz from the sales of its clean proportions expects a part of the cash for the purchase total to receive, because as he announces, goes he and team head Peter Sauber after many years of co-operation to the year end of separate ways. Mateschitz of the sales its 64 per cent of proportions expects approximately 36 million euro.

At the latest 2003 talks " bulletin ALL America team is ", before it gives it some at preliminary work to complete. Like that one wants to rename starting from the next season the used Cosworth engine gladly in Fords or General of engine and one is on the search for large American sponsors.

Many more importantly is however the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz would like to have absolutely also an American in the cockpit: " Naturally also the drivers are to originate from the USA. Therefore we will execute a driver competition shortly. " Is clear, for the season 2002 would be the workstation of Enrique Bernoldi to be still had, but seems it more realistically that only 2003 an American will sit in the auto. That is by the way welcomed by Formel-1-Boss Bernie Ecclestone, which in " talk bulletin ALL America team " the chance sees, inspiring the Americans for " " the European formula 1 more.

[HP]

So an Austrian sets up an all American team Last time I checked my global map, neither Europe nor Austria belonged to the States ;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think North and South America are his next targets, ergo Bernoldi

[tifoso]

Originally posted by rdrcr
The last American to drive in a U.S. Grand Prix was Eddie Cheever, who finished third for Arrows in 1989.

Didn't Michael Andretti drive for part of a season for McLaren in 1993? I know he didn't do squat, but he drove; didn't he?

[Louis Mr. F1]

There was no USGP in 93, so Cheever was still the last US driver to compete in the 89 USGP

it's a really weird plan and totally unexpected.
I guess, it won't be too difficult to find US sponsorship and they already have the Ford engine. The tough part is where are the qualified US drivers? how about a return of Michael Andretti? when he left in 93, he said F1 is unfinished business and he wanted to come back one day.

also, i think Walkinshaw must be feeling sad that just when his team is about to turn the corner, it's being taken over. Is it good for him with all the money but not really success with the results?

[Dreadman]

I really don't like the smell of this plan. For once Jos might just be able to drive a decent car, and then this fellow pops in and tries to ruin everything.

If Jos can stay put, and they put the money into developing the car I'll be fine. But if they're (RedBull) going to spend almost everything on promoting the team in America i'll be pissed. But he realy want to make it an all American team, thus having two american drivers and therefore ditching Jos Verstappen I'll be realy realy mad.

Please, let this just be some stupid rumours!

C-ya.

[inigo]

Jos, get a green card, now!

[tifoso]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
how about a return of Michael Andretti? when he left in 93, he said F1 is unfinished business and he wanted to come back one day.

Yikes. That would doom the effort for sure.

[Shiftin]

Don't fall over me but I think Jos is going to drive a Jordan next year.....

[taking cover mode]

[Ross Stonefeld]

STONEFELD TEAMED WITH VERSTAPPEN AT ARROWS IN REDBULL SHOCK MOVE



Just think, you could get twice the usage out of all that "...the Boss" merchandise

[inigo]

Shiftin: Why do you think so? What about Sato, Fisichella and Alesi?

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
STONEFELD TEAMED WITH VERSTAPPEN AT ARROWS IN REDBULL SHOCK MOVE



Just think, you could get twice the usage out of all that "...the Boss" merchandise

Ross joins the Boss....

[inigo]

LOL Ross

[Ross Stonefeld]

Im gonna have to revive the Audi petition...


btw it came out to 22 pages representing 39 different countries



Who knew there was such a large Estonian contingent on Atlas

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by inigo
Shiftin: Why do you think so? What about Sato, Fisichella and Alesi?

Just a feeling. The Verstappen forum is full of it. It has kindda blinded my judgement, maybe. But I am holding on to this. I mean,

- Jos gets a one year do or die contract
- Jos has still some goodwill from his testing work. Honda said they were once gonna pay him back ( I know how it sounds but anyway)
- Sato will be their test driver.
- Alesi will will leave to cart I think
- EJ and TW have been talking a lot during USGP
- Where that leaves Fisi I don't know

Just some thoughts. Maybe true, maybe those of a desperate fan. But Jos deserves better than this.

Jos:up:

[inigo]

Well, good luck to you.
Its only a small step away now, only sponsorship after having secured a nickname

[Ross Stonefeld]

I would just like to say, I would want to drive alongside Jos. We can argue all day over his speed, but at the very least he's highly experienced

[inigo]

Shiftin: Lots of hard facts
I hope you are right, I'll be glad if he keep's ANY F1 ride. Goes for Alesi as well.

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by inigo
Shiftin: Lots of hard facts

Yeah, I know. Rub it in:(

[inigo]

About Verstappen: Being a fan of him has ups & downs, you are guaranteed having a good time during the first part of each GP, you just have to take some bashing at this forum

[tombr]

He wants to make it an-all American team with US drivers

I suppose this could happen if the door is open for US drivers with no more racing experience than Kimi or Jenson had. You could probably find a number of US drivers that would jump at the chance to get into F1 (Ross & myself included) but I doubt that they (or we) would have the immediate impact that Kimi has or Jenson had last year.

(Sorry, Ross. Reality setting in here.)

[A3]

Originally posted by inigo
About Verstappen: Being a fan of him has ups & downs, you are guaranteed having a good time during the first part of each GP, you just have to take some bashing at this forum

Bashing? Where?

I don't (want to) believe any of this until I read it on Arrows' or Verstappen's website.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah but they want drivers by 2003, we could do F3 in 2002 and be okay

[Ross Stonefeld]

Andretti just hit the pit exit at Houston. I hit the pit entry at Silverstone. Andretti has unfinished business in F1. Stonefeld and Andretti to Arrows? The perfect blend of youth and experience (and incompetence)

[MONTOYASPEED]

I'm sorry for A3, Frans, Flying Panda, and Acda

[tim]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
I'm sorry for A3, Frans, Flying Panda, and Acda

And just think about all those gravel traps that will fall into misuse next year as Jos won't be visiting them...;)

Still, he's a reasonable driver, he should be able to get a seat somewhere else. Suddenly a Prost seat seems very welcoming...

[A3]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
I'm sorry for A3, Frans, Flying Panda, and Acda

Don't you worry ;). Somehow I don't think Walkinshaw did all the trouble to get top designers and a top engine just to sell the team.

[inigo]

Isnt Walkinshaw mostly about $? (I don't know, he gives the impression to me)

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by tim
And just think about all those gravel traps that will fall into misuse next year as Jos won't be visiting them...;)

You really made me laugh

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by Wolbo
Very stupid plan. My only hope is the knowledge that the last Austrian who tried to conquer the USA never made it that far.;)

;)

well, if the Red Bull guy does try it, I hope they leave the name as Arrows. I was really impressed that Walkinshaw changed it back (from Foowork) instead of renaming it after himself. A name emanates a lot of meaning...i disliked BAR just because their name is an acronym.

[ehagar]

If it means keeping the team in its current location and hiring American drivers I think it could be a good thing. The question is who would you hire?

I think it would be stupid to fire Verstappen.... You could try Alex Barron or an American F-3 driver, but is there anyone at this point really ready? Maybe two years from now...

I don't think it is such a stupid idea because how many drivers have bought a drive with money or their nationality? It is nothing new in F-1....

If you provide a chance for Americans you might get more Americans giving F-1 a try.

[clickhappy]

Ditch the ARROWS name. An acronym for The Most Starts Without A Win wouldn't roll of the tongue so well...

Originally posted by Nustang70

;)

well, if the Red Bull guy does try it, I hope they leave the name as Arrows. I was really impressed that Walkinshaw changed it back (from Foowork) instead of renaming it after himself. A name emanates a lot of meaning...i disliked BAR just because their name is an acronym.

[flyer72]

I think it is an excellent plan! Red bull is still trying to get a bigger market share in the US and would benefit greatly from having a red bull team! Buying out arrows could be one idea, considering that the F1 teams still have to be in the UK for technical reasons (facilities already there, easier to get experienced ppl from other teams, engine from ford-cosworth (UK), closer to more tracks for practice and so forth.....). Calling it an american team might be a little hard but having TWO yank drivers would definately be a good strategy!

Better yet, if FORD would like to have an "american"team they could buy up arrows or lately BAR, supply them with the same engines as for jaguar and get two yank drivers.....

Red bull is probably thinking that F1 is a great venue in getting attention (worldwide) and the only way to get increased attention in the US is to have yank drivers. Several friends of mine follow F1 but they ALWAYS complain there are no yank drivers!

On the other hand, red bull could also buy an existing CART team, throw over Bernoldi in CART and ....

Lots of options!

Anything that could attract yanks into watching F1 is good news! I hope Bernie agrees!

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by clickhappy
Ditch the ARROWS name. An acronym for The Most Starts Without A Win wouldn't roll of the tongue so well...

ARROWS is also an acronym, but one that rolls of the tongue, apposed to BAR. Besides...it is an acronym with a history. Barrichello and Hakkinen both held the "most starts without a win" title, but we still like to keep them around.

[Zawed]

Should'nt ditch the name Arrows, its part of F1 history. BAR should never have changed the Tyrell name either.

Arrows stands for (I think)

Ambrosio Rees R(?) O(?) Wass Southgate

Can't remember the missing names but they are all the initials of the original founders surnames.

It would be good to see some Americans in F1

[Gra]

The "O" in ARROWS stood for Jackie Oliver. The second "R" was just so that it was spelled correctly.

I think this could be a good idea to get more Americans interested in F1, but who could you use??

[Slyder]

Actually Arrows stands for

Franco Ambrosio
Alain Rees
Jackie Oliver
Dave Wass
Tony Southgate


And, I still have my doubts about this little deal. I seriously doubt that it will materialize, I somehow think that they should build the team from scratch. Hell they got some of the best people in the States to do it, come on, raise the frid, 26 cars in the grid

[Flying Panda]

Hmmm.... If theis happens, hopefully Minardi will get the Orange sponser ship, then the best team can finally have the best Livery.
(best livery 1999 - Minardi, 2000 - Arrows, 2001 - Arrows)

Hmm, an All American team, with all American drivers....
Look like Toyota might have some competition down there....
2003 lineup - Al Unser Jr. and Sara Fisher
Jos to Ferrari :up::up:
(expecting some sort of 'hahahahaha, you make me laugh :rolleyes:' reply from Montoyaspeed for this ;) )



[Flying panda's fantasy]
Michael Schumacher retires from motorsport when
Ecclestone and Mosley intoduce a new 'No Domination' policy. Todt and Brawn then make Rubens #1 driver, and Schumacher finishes 8th in the championship, with 23 points, including a win at Malaysia...
2002 WDC Standings -
1st - Rubens Barrichello, Ferrari
2nd - Kimi Raikonnen, McLaren
3rd - Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams
4th - Pedro de la Rosa, Jaguar
5th - Fernando Alonso, Orange Minardi
6th - Giancarlo Fisichella, Jordan
7th - Ralf Schumacher, Williams
8th - Michael Schumacher, Ferrari
9th - Jos Verstappen, Red-Bull Arrows
10th - Taso Maques, Ferrari, (Replace Rubens in Monaco, 10 points from 1 race, as in, he only started one race the whole season;) )
[/Flying panda's fantasy]

[Mosquito]

Mateschitz said the new "Red Bull All America Team" would be supplied with American engines from either GM or Ford and would also have U.S. sponsors. Arrows signed a deal in July to use the Ford Cosworth V10 engine for two years starting next season.

"And of course the drivers will also come from the U.S. That's why we'll soon stage a drivers' competition," he was quoted as saying by the magazine.

The thing that bothers me most is the high 'Sylvester Stallone' degree of this announcement.

We're living in an era where circuits are less and less selected because of their quality of being a good racing circuit and more and more solely because of sponsors and media interrests.

The same is now slowly happening with drivers obviously. It saddens me to recognize that this man has obviously NO interrest at all in building a good team with good drivers, but is planning to use the Arrows team solely as a vehicle to carry his Red Bull flag.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I fear the plan might even work. The hype of having 2 American drivers in an all-American car / team (BTW: Shouldn't all-American also include the sponsor / owner as well??!) could be stronger than the knowledge the average Joe Sixpack has about F1 and that starting from 20th position does NOT mean you're in the midfield as in NASCAR.;)

In all seriousness, this plan sounds exactly like the circus I'm fearing F1 might once become.

[Amadeus]

But what makes anyone think that it would attract more Americans to watch F1?

As has been mentioned the chances of the team being HQ'd anywhere in the US are slim, so the 'US' angle would seem to be mainly drivers and sponsors. Having US Sponsors may raise the profile (depending who they are and thier input) but won't in and of itself drive viewing figures (after all the usual loop is the other way around - viewers = sponsorship).

The idea that American drivers would pull in the punters is good, but IMHO flawed. First, the US is a media saturated marketplace. there is so much TV, so much sport, and so many Americans competing all over the world that 2 more in (what is in the US) a minority sport is unlikley to suddenly open the floodgates (after all Blackburn Rovers have a US Goalkeeper, and they don't often make it into USA Today). Likewise the US is a very results oriented society. I'm Irish, and an Irish athlete in the Olympics is big news over here - reaching an Olympic final is something to be proud of. When I watched the Olympics in the States I was shocked at the 'win at all costs' mentality - 2nd place is failure and Gold is all that matters, in the media opinion. That is a great attitude, but 2 rookies circulating at the back of the pack, minimal airtime and hitting gravel regularly is unlikley to get the US motor sport fraternity that hot under the collar in this context.

[mhferrari]

I like that, Andretti and Stonefeld...

[Toyoter]

Amadeus.

This idea will most likely backfire horribly if it goes through. As an American F1 fan, I don't want to see an American in F1 who hasn't legitimately earned the right to be there. Malaysians may be impressed by watching Yoong struggle around the track, but I can assure you that Americans would not be.

[Robbie]

American
Racing?
Rule
Out
WinS.

Sorry, folks, but that's just how it is.

[Toyoter]

Well, it's not like Arrows is getting wins now... or has ever gotten a win...

[Slyder]

Well, Patrese and Hill nearly did it.