27 replies to this topic

[DAT]

quick question:

whats the biggest number of different teams a driver has driven for throughout their f1 career?

just wondering

[Zawed]

de Cesaris drove for quite a few about 8 or 9 off the top of my head...

[LittleChris]

IIRC Stefan Johansson did 10:

Shadow
Spirit
Toleman
Tyrrell
Ferrari
McLaren
Ligier
Onyx
Arrows
AGS

[Vitesse2]

Stirling Moss 10 (and that's just WDC races!)

HWM
ERA
Connaught
Cooper
Equipe Moss/AE Moss
Maserati
Mercedes Benz
Vanwall
Rob Walker
BRP

[FEV]

Chirs Amon did better (or worse ? )
Lola, Lotus, Cooper, Brabham, Ferrari, March, Matra, Tecno, Tyrell, Amon, BRM and Ensign : that makes 12.

[FEV]

Here are a few others:

Andrea de Cesaris 10 : ALFA-Romeo, mcLaren, Ligier, Minardi, Brabham, Rial, Dallara, Jordan, Tyrell, Sauber.

Maurice Trintignant 9 : Gordini, Ferrari, Vanwall, Bugatti, Cooper, Maserati, BRM, Aston-Martin, Lotus.

Eddie Cheever 9 : Theodore, Hesketh, Osella, Tyrell, Ligier, Renault, ALFA-Romeo, Lola-Haas and Arrows.

Jacky Ickx 9 : Matra, Cooper, Ferrari, Brabham, mcLaren, Williams, Lotus, Ensign and Ligier.

Roberto Moreno 9 : Lotus, AGS, Coloni, EuroBrun, Benetton, Jordan, Minardi, Moda and Forti.

Jo Bonnier 8 : Maserati, BRM, Porsche, Cooper, Brabham, mcLaren, Honda and Lotus.

Jean-Pierre Jarier 8 : March, Shadow, Penske, Ligier, ATS, Lotus, Tyrell and Osella.

Roy Salvadori 8 : Ferrari, Connaught, Maserati, Vanwall, Cooper, BRM, Aston-Martin and Lola.

Rolf Stommelen 8 : Lotus, Brabham, Surtees, March/Eifelland, Lola, Hill, Hesketh, Arrows.

John Surtees 8 : Lotus, Cooper, Lola, Ferrari, Honda, BRM, mcLaren, Surtees.

[David McKinney]

Some of these lists, especially the last one, look more like different makes than different teams...

[Rediscoveryx]

Didn't Murray Walker at some stage claim that Gabriele Tarquini had driven for 31 teams?

[oldtimer]

Murray meant to say 13.

[David M. Kane]

Wasn't Andrea De Crasheris dad the head of Marlboro Europe and that's how he kept coming up with money for these rental drives?

[Zawed]

He did have links with Marlboro, but I don't think it was his father involved with Marlboro.

[fines]

His dad was a bigwig at Phillip Morris, but I don't think it did him a lot of good in his Formula One days. It's true, the Marlboro money got him the ride in Dennis' F3 team, but from there his ability carried him through. Of course, it didn't do him any harm that Marlboro was the title sponsor at Alfa Romeo, McLaren and then Alfa Romeo again, his first three F1 teams. But these were certainly no "rental drives". And after that, he ran at Ligier, with different fag money paying the bills...

[Richard Jenkins]

I make these the top 5 in World Championship races only:
(some were practice only - but are still counted in F1 career - others are makes (ie Reg Parnell or Ian Raby racing but....)

13 - Chris Amon - Lola, Lotus, Brabham, Cooper, Ferrari, March, Matra, Martini-Tecno, Tyrrell, Amon, BRM, Ensign, Williams

12- Maurice Trintignant - Gordini, Ferrari, Vanwall, Bugatti, Lancia (strictly speaking a Ferrari, but it was the Lancia team he raced under), Cooper, Maserati, BRM, Aston Martin, de Tomaso, Lotus, Lola

12 - Sir Stirling Moss - HWM, ERA, Connaught, Cooper, Maserati, Mercedes, Vanwall, Porsche, BRM, Scarab, Lotus, Ferguson

10 - Stefan Johansson - Shadow, Spirit, Tyrrell, Toleman, Ferrari, McLaren, Ligier, Onyx, AGS, Footwork

10 - Andrea de Cesaris - Alfa Romeo, McLaren, Ligier, Minardi, Brabham, Rial, Dallara, Jordan, Tyrell, Sauber

Unlucky Amon - unlucky number - any co-indience???

[bobbo]

V2:

Couldn't we give Mossie 11? (or at least 10 1/2 ;) !) since he co-drove the Ferguson P99 with Jack Fairman?? I know they were DQ's, but . . .

Also, related, who drove for the most teams in the same season??

Bobbo

[Roger Clark]

12 - Sir Stirling Moss - HWM, ERA, Connaught, Cooper, Maserati, Mercedes, Vanwall, Porsche, BRM, Scarab, Lotus, Ferguson

I'm not sure about Scarab, as it was only a try out to help the Scarab team; and I can't remember him driving a Porsche at a world championship event. On the other hand, you might separate Cooper-Altas from Climaxes and BRMs

Lancia (strictly speaking a Ferrari, but it was the Lancia team he raced under),

Are Lancia and Ferari reversed? I assume you mean he drove a Lancia entered as a Ferrari.

[Rob29]

Jacky Ickx did not drive for Matra. His appearances in that make were in the F2 cars of the Tyrell team.

[Vitesse2]

Bobbo/Richie: I thought about that, but the P99 was actually entered by Rob Walker, not Fergusons ...

Roger: Stirling drove an Ecurie Maarsbergen RSK in practice for the 1959 Dutch GP:)

However, to replace the Ferguson, how about the UDT-Laystall Lotus he drove in practice for the 1961 French GP?

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by DAT


whats the biggest number of different teams a driver has driven for throughout their f1 career?

Perhaps someone should start a new thread for the most different makes driven; it’s only in the past few years that teams and makes have meant the same thing.

The two top two names on Richie’s list of teams should still be Amon and Trintignant, but like this:

12 - Amon - Parnell (Lola, Lotus), Raby (Brabham), Cooper, Ferrari, March, Matra, Martini-Tecno, Tyrrell, Amon, BRM, Ensign, Williams

12- Trintignant - Gordini, Rosier (Ferrari), Ferrari (Ferrari, Lancia-Ferrari), Vanwall, Bugatti, Rob Walker (Cooper, Lotus), Centro-Sud (Maserati, Cooper-Maserati, BRM), BRM, Aston Martin, Serenissima (Cooper-Maserati, de Tomaso), Parnell (Lotus, Lola), Maurice Trintignant (BRM)

To rake up Roger Clark's point: whilst DNQs can be included, ie where someone entered and practised, but didn’t qualify, I think we should ignore informal tryouts where there was never an official entry nor any intention of racing (eg Moss in Porsche and Scarab). How many other cars did these guys have a few laps in, back in those less restrained days, that were never reported, and that we don’t know about?

I reckon Moss drove for only nine teams in world championship races - HWM, ERA, Connaught, Stirling Moss (Cooper-Alta, Maserati), Rob Walker (Cooper, Lotus, Ferguson), Maserati, Mercedes, Vanwall and BRP (BRM)

[Vitesse2]

David: Sheldon and others list Cooper Car Co as official entrant for the Cooper-Alta ... I make that ten.

[Roger Clark]

Chris Amon also practiced a self-entered Brabham at the 1966 Italian GP, but whether that counts as the same team as the amon car six years later, I don't know.

I think Vitesse is right about the official entrant of the Cooper-Alta, but did the works have any involvement at all, either in the design and build, or the runing of the car? I have never fully understood why the car was called a Cooper at all. And do we need to separate AE Moss from Equipe Moss as entrants of Stirling's 250F?

Would it be interesting to start a thread about guest drives in official practice?

[Richard Jenkins]

With Lancia-Ferrari, some could argue it counted as the Ferrari team after their takeover of the team, which is why I mentioned it separtely just in case.

[David McKinney]

Moss drove two Cooper-Altas in 1953. I am aware that various published lists give the factory as entrant for both, but that would be extremely surprising.
The first car was designed and built elsewhere to run in direct competition with the works-built Cooper-Bristols, and although the second car - the so-called "eleven-day wonder" - was built at Surbiton, the work was not carried out by works personnel. Certainly there is no suggestion in Stirling Moss, My Cars, My Career that the Cooper Car Company was involved in any other capacity.

[Vitesse2]

Sheldon calls the first car the Alta Special. I wonder if there is a confusion here between John Cooper and John A Cooper, Technical Editor of Autocar, who was one of the co-originators of the car with Ray Martin. Might he have also been entrant of the Cooper-Altas, rather than the Cooper Car Co?

[Roger Clark]

Contemporary reports gave the entrant of the first Cooper-Alta as the Cooper Car Co. I don't think I've ever seen the car described as an Alta Special.

The original intention was that it would use a Cooper chassis frame. however, it was necessary to modify it so much that eventually they started from scratch. I suspect that the use of the Cooper name for both car and entrant was simply because they were known by the organisers and worth more starting money than Alta special, or Francis-Martin-Cooper Special or Kieft or whatever else they might have called it.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Contemporary reports gave the entrant of the first Cooper-Alta as the Cooper Car Co.

I'm staggered - are we talking reliable contemporary reports here?

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by David McKinney


I'm staggered - are we talking reliable contemporary reports here?

Autocourse

[David McKinney]

I would normally trust that source, but...?

[Roger Clark]

THe Cooper Car Co appeared as entrant in Autocourse for several races: Goodwood, Silversone, Crystal Palace and French GP. I believe they got this infomation from the race organisers, which should make it official. To make the same mistake four times is a bit much. I too understood that Coopers had little to do with the Moss Cooper-Alta Mk 1. I can only suggest that there was some kind of agreement with the works team to use their entrants licence as an aid with starting money negotiations.