10 replies to this topic

[nick stone]

A silly question, but:

as I understand it, F1 tyres are made from petrochemicals and contain no rubber at all.
Conventional car tyres that use rubber are colored by lamp black, so presumably F1 tyres are too.
Is there anything to stop Bridgestone or Michelin leaving out the black colorant and adding a team's colors to the mix?
Ferrari red and Jordan yellow for example.
Or perhaps there could be different colors for different compounds so we could see who was wearing what.

Ok. It was just a thought.

[Jhope]

Yes there is something preventing them from making tires matched to team livelies, it's called randomness. All tires have to be randomly given to teams in order to take away any prevent a tire company making special tired for one team, and awful tires for another. I forget which FIA article i saw this "random" rule in.

[nicholasc]

Very interesting idea.
Rollerblade wheel types and compounds are indeed designated by different colouring - and interestingly the lighter and brighter colours are more durable. I've had it explained to me that you require purer chemicals to be able to achieve the vibrant colours and that the black wheels are basically full of filler and impurities.

Better yet - wheels that vary in colour with temperature. Maybe then we'd be able to figure out exactly what is happening with those michelins?

[BertlF]

ALL Tyres are made of rubber + carbon black + additives. As base material natural cautchuk is used. The rubber is blended with the carbon black (technically called furnace black because of the production process - as opposed to lamp black, which would have a far to big particle size for the required characteristics) and the additives in a process called 'vulcanising'. The main function of the carbon black in the rubber compound is to reinforce the rubber structure (Without carbon black, the tyre would simply not stay in shape).

By changing the characterisitcs of the carbon black (particle size, surface and chemical characteristics) and varying the additives, differed tyre compounds are possible.

There has been a lot of research in using different reinforcement components in rubber instead of carbon black. Even complete 'plastic tyres' made of thermoplasic materials) have been tested) but non are able to achieve the same results in grip, abrasiveness, roll-noise, roll-resistance (fuel economy - obviously only for road cars....) and dynamic force resistance than carbon black.

That's the reason why tyres are black.

Bert

[30ft penguin]

Apparently somebody else thought about this, too:

http://www.atlasf1.c...ort.php?id=2547:

Rumours abound that Michelin may run coloured tyres when they enter Formula One in 2001. The team has recently been testing with an all-white Jaguar at Imola, and is due there again next week. Driver was Max Wilson, but the team was plagued by mechanical problems and did few laps. Meanwhile Jordan and Arrows are expected to remain with Bridgestone in 2001.

http://www.formula1....ance/s2496.html (from July 1st, 2000)

Q.Yasukawa-san, we've heard a rumour about Michelin manufacturing coloured tyres. Do Bridgestone plan anything similar?
Yasukawa: "We prefer to keep our tyres black. One of the essential elements within the tyre, of course, is carbon black. To change that element would compromise tyre performance and we believe that black tyres will remain the quickest."

[DEVO]

Randomness can still occur with color tires. If a team really thinks Ferrari has an advantage with their red tires then take the red ones for your team as well. Also, if you don't think that tire manufactures work closely with the top teams then your living on another planet. Who said the tires have to be random? This isn't NASCAR.

[Pioneer]

Originally posted by DEVO
Who said the tires have to be random? This isn't NASCAR.

The 2001 Formula One Sporting Regulations

80) Control of tyres :
a) All tyres which are to be used at an
Event will be marked with a unique
identification.
b) At any time during an Event, and at
his absolute discretion, the FIA technical
delegate may select the dry-weather tyres to be
used by any Team from among the total stock
of tyres which such Team's designated supplier
has present at the Event.
c) From among the twenty-eight dry-weather
tyres available to each driver following
the first day of practice, the FIA technical
delegate will choose at random sixteen tyres
(eight front and eight rear) which are the only
dry-weather tyres which such car may use in
qualifying practice.
d) A competitor wishing to replace one
unused tyre by another unused one must
present both tyres to the FIA technical
delegate.
e) The use of tyres without appropriate
identification is strictly forbidden.

[BertlF]

Originally posted by DEVO
Randomness can still occur with color tires. If a team really thinks Ferrari has an advantage with their red tires then take the red ones for your team as well. Also, if you don't think that tire manufactures work closely with the top teams then your living on another planet. Who said the tires have to be random? This isn't NASCAR.

According to the regulations (as outlined by Pioneer), the distribution of tyres at the track has to be by random. Nop doubts about that.

However, I agree also with DEVO. The development of the tyres is done in very close cooperation with a few selected teams. If Bridgestone develops a new tyre compound with - let's say - Ferrari, it's natural that the specific characteristics of this compound are 'tailored' to the needs of the Ferrari chassis. If Bridgestone then decides to take this particualr compound, for instance as a 'soft' tyre, to a race, they will produce sufficient tyres to be able to distribute them randomly among all the Bridgestone teams who choose the 'soft tyre'. It might be suitable for all of them but it is certainly very suitable for Ferrari in this example. Hence Bridgestone adheres to the rules by distributing a tyre randomly, which has been deveoped for a specific team......

I still believe in the fact, that tyres are a most decisive factor in the performance of a car. Ferraris advantage in 2000/2001 was the crucial fact, that they could make the Bridgestones work perfectly with their car. Something that McLaren was not able to achieve. It is, in my opinion, therefore paramount for a team to have close links with a tyre manufacturer in order to be able to test as many compounds as possible and, to a further extend, try to influence the development of tyre compounds.

As far as I remember, one of the first F1 drivers, who realized this fact, was Jackie Stewart. He established - maybe also via Ford - close links to the Goodyear guys in Akron in the late 60's and early 70's and tried to test as many compounds as possible in the pre-season tests. Therefore he had the advantage of knowledge about all the different compounds when it came to choose the right tyre for the race.

Bert

[DEVO]

Pioneer, thanks for the clarification on the rule. I had a feeling that there was a rule but it's what BertIF said that I was trying to point out as well.

[Pioneer]

No disagreement there. Tire companies of course favor one or 2 teams over the others and develop for those teams. Because they can and there's so many variables that go into a tire that other teams can't really complain with too much evidence to back their complaining.

However, if Bridgestone started making all their tires Ferrari red, I think the other teams would be a bit unhappy.

[FlagMan]

Avon(?) produced some coloured tyres for a one-off F3 race at Brands Hatch about ten years ago (Only the side-walls where coloured - red one and blue ones).

The race featured a pit-stop for a tyre change - the tyre colour thus denoting who had pitted.

The colours must have been moulded into the side-walls as it seemed durable - the tyres appeared occasionaly on cars in the minor club formulae for a few years after the race.