30 replies to this topic

[Hans Etzrodt]

The first of four Lwow Grands Prix was held in 1930. Henryk Liefeldt won the Formula Libre race, driving a 3.4-liter Austro-Daimler ADR. Count Maurycy Potocki (Bugatti 2.3-liter) came second, followed in third by Jan Ripper (Bugatti Type 37A) and Count Franciszek Mycielski (Bugatti 1.5) last. The fifth car from Zawidowski (Bugatti 2.3-liter) completed only 7 of the 17 laps race.

But when was the race held? Does anybody have the date of this 1930 event?

[quintin cloud]

Hans You would not by any chance have the name of the track and length of one lap for the 1930 Lwow GP and finishing time of Henryk Liefeldt

[Darren Galpin]

Track Length: 1.865 miles.

Lap Record: Rudolf Caracciola (Alfa Romeo 8C "Monza"), 2m02.8, 54.674mph, 1932

Results:-


Year Formula Winner Car mph
1930 FL Henryk Liefeld Austro-Daimler 50.530
1931 GP Hans Stuck Mercedes-Benz SSK 48.308
1932 GP Rudolf Caracciola Alfa Romeo 8C "Monza" 53.221
1933 GP Eugen Bjornstad Alfa Romeo 8C "Monza" 51.123


http://www.silhouet....racks/lwow.html

[quintin cloud]

Thanks Darren

[FEV]

Was Count Maurycy Potocki related to Adam Potocki who was Jean-Pierre Jaussaud's team mate in Formula 2 in 1972 ? IIRC Adam was also a count or something.
Darren, I guess the track was an urban one. Was it in park like Budapest or in the streets ?

[Darren Galpin]

It was a narrow street track in the town of Lwow, located near the Russian border.

[Rob29]

This place is usually spelled 'Lvov',and is now in Ukraine,having been swallowed by USSR after WW2.
Adam Potocki I remember from Rouen F3 1968.Must have been the only Pole to have been in pole position!

[Boniver]

2° Lwow GP 7.06.1931
3° Lwow GP 19.06.1932
4° Lwow GP 11.06.1933

possible

1° Lwow GP ?.06.1930

[Marcor]

Hans,

Look at this: http://homepage.mac....InPoland01.html

Otherwise, in my library I've found pictures of the 1933 edition of the race in "Englebert Magazine" (1933). I could photocopy it but I'm afraid it will be of poor quality (forbidden to take the books out of the library).

[Vitesse2]

Darren: there is a slightly different map in the Georgano Encyclopaedia - it also has names for some of the corners and straights:)

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Wow, I never had an idea that the city I was born in had held big races. If they raced in the old town, I wouldn't envy the drivers, the streets are still covered with cobblestones to this day in a lot of places.

[Darren Galpin]

Vitesse2 - any chance of a scan of the map? I don't have a copy of the Georgano Encyclopaedia.......

[anjakub]

Grand Prix Lwow was organised by the Malopolski Klub Automobilowy - MKA (Malopolski Automobile Club) on the street circuit in Lwow. The track was a difficult with very slippery surfaces (pavement, tramway rails). First race - Wyscig Automobilowy o Nagrode miasta Lwowa (Automobile Races for Prize City of Lwow) was held on 8 september 1930.

Wyscigi Automobilowe o Nagrode miasta Lwowa
Lwow, 8 september 1930
Lap distance: 3.041 km, race distance: 51.697 km (17 laps)

(Name, No, car, time)
1. Henryk Liefeldt (1) Austro Daimler ADR 38.12,70 (81,324 km/h)
2. Maurycy Potocki (5) Bugatti 35B 38.26,25
3. Jan Ripper (2) Bugatti 37A 42.07,60
4. Franciszek Mycielski (3) Bugatti 37A 43.29,87

Fastest lap: H. Liefeldt 2.12,1 (82,872 km/h)

Retirements
Antoni Heller (4) Bugatti 35B - lap 8 - accident (lost a wheel)
Antoni Heller's car was entered by Edward Zawidowski.

Race facts
1 lap: Liefeldt, Potocki, Ripper, Heller, Mycielski
2 lap: Liefeldt, Potocki, Heller, Mycielski, Ripper
8 lap: Liefeldt, Potocki, Mycielski, Ripper
12 lap: Liefeldt, Potocki, Ripper, Mycielski
17 lap: Liefeldt, Potocki, Ripper, Mycielski


PS.
Second pole position for Pole
Formula Renault Eurocup 2001 - A-1 Ring - Robert Kubica.

[Hans Etzrodt]

anja,
Welcome to TNF. I hope you will like it here, my second home.

Thank you very much for answering my question. I have no prizes to give away but you obviously deserve first prize for your explicit information, which is displayed so perfectly; and off course for answering my question, the search for the date.

From the information I had received recently about this event, I concluded that the Lwow GP took place after the Tatra Mountain Race on August 24. The Lwow race could have been held two weeks later on September 7, which was a Sunday. Why then on September 8, a Monday? Was that a holiday in Poland?

[quintin cloud]

anja

[anjakub]

Hans,

September 8, 1930, was a ordinary Monday, but Lwow Grand Prix saw 20 thousands fans.
On September 9, 1930, (Sunday) was held 20-kilometres race from Stryj to Lwow.
Started only three participants:
1st Count Maurycy Potocki (Austro Daimler) time 11.22,0
2nd Franciszek Hulimka (Lancia) 14.04,2
ret. M Lanc (Bugatti) - car damage

[Rob G]

Great job anjakub!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Quote

Originally posted by anjakub
.....September 8, 1930, was a ordinary Monday, but Lwow Grand Prix saw 20 thousands fans.
On September 9, 1930, (Sunday) was held 20-kilometres race from Stryj to Lwow.....

anja,
If September 8, 1930 was an ordinary Monday, how can September 9, 1930 be a Sunday? The ninth is the next following day, a Tuesday. You probably meant to type 'September 7' instead of 9.
Was there also a sports car race on Sunday, September 7, 1930?

[Vitesse2]

Georgano Encyclopaedia says the 1930 sports car race was won by Tadeus Skolimowski (Alfa Romeo) at 47.125mph (75.84km/h) - no further details.

[anjakub]

Hans,

sorry, my error

Sunday September 7,1930, was held the 20 km race.
On Monday was held the race meeting - Lwow Grand Prix for race cars and races for sports and touring cars.
Sports car race won by Tadeusz Skolimowski (Alfa Romeo 6C-1750).
Touring car race won by lady driver Maria Kozmian (Austro Daimler ADR).

[Hans Etzrodt]

anja,
Great information. Thank you very much.

Can I also tap your brain about hill climbs/mountain races? I am collecting data for my list of Mountain Climb Winners 1897-1949

The 1927 1st Tatra race at Kracow was won by Henryk Liefeldt (Austro Daimler). What type car? What was his time up the mountain? What day was the race? In August 1927?

The second Tatra race on August 19, 1928 was won by Jan Ripper. But what type Bugatti did he race? What was his time up the mountain?

Did Tatra races take place in 1929 and 1930? I have no records.

On August 16 1931, Max Arco-Zinneberg won that year's Tatra race. What type Austro-Daimler was he driving? What was his time up the mountain?

As far as I know, the 1932 race was cancelled and after that I have no information, covering the years up to 1949.

[David McKinney]

Max Arco won the racing class in 1931 - the overall winner was sportscar entrant Caracciola.
The Austro-Daimler was reported as being the ex-Stuck car. Before you ask me for my source for that, Hans, I should explain that I have been collecting data for more than 40 years to satisfy my own curiosity, and therefore had no need to note sources. But at least my information should help point others in the right direction.
The information might have come from Das Grosse Bugatti Buch by Erwin Trgatsch.

[anjakub]

Wyscig Tatrzanski (Tatra Race) was organized by Krakowski Klub Automobilowy – KKA (Cracow Automobile Club) in years 1927-1931. Race took place on the road from Zakopane to lake Morskie Oko (in fact from Lysa Polana to Wlosienica).
Track: 7,5 km long, level differences 368 metres.

August 14, 1927
® Henryk Liefeldt (Poland) Austro Daimler ADR = 6.48,6 (66,079 km/h)
(S) E.G. Wentzel von Mosau (Germany) Mercedes Benz S = 7.02,0 (63,981 km/h)

August 19, 1928
® Jan Ripper (Poland) Bugatti 37A = 5.47,41 (77,717)
(S) Stanislaw Szwarcsztein (Poland) Bugatti 35B = 6.28,18 (69,555 km/h)

August 11, 1929
® Jan Ripper (Poland) Bugatti 37A = 6.05,695 (73,832 km/h)
(S) Florian Schmidt (Czechoslovakia) Amilcar (type Grand Sport – 4 cyl. 1100 ccm, compressor) = 6.41,380 (67,268 km/h)

August 24, 1930
® Hans von Stuck (Austria) Austro Daimler Bergmeister = 5.23,795 (83,386 km/h)
(S) Florian Schmidt (Czechoslovakia) Amilcar Grand Sport = 6.13,445 (72,298 km/h)
(T) Jan Chrzaszcz (Poland) Lancia Lambda = 7.22,940 (60,958 km/h)

August 16, 1931
® Max Arco Zinnenberg (Germany) Austro Daimler type ? (class C: 3000-5000 ccm) = 5.51,630 (76,785 km/h)
(S) Rudolf Caracciola (Germany) Mercedes Benz SSK = 5.29,870 (81,850 km/h)
(T) Tadeusz Bukowiecki (Poland) Fiat type ? (class B: 5000-8000 ccm) = 8.25,800 (53,380 km/h)

note: ® racing class, (S) sports class, (T) touring class.

[Hans Etzrodt]

anja,
This is great stuff. Thank you very much indeed.

I will enter your name as a source for this event in my yet unpublished list of Mountain Climb Winners 1887-1949. The sister list Grand Prix Winners 1895-1949 at <http://www.kolumbus....ellman/gpw0.htm> shows already the 1930 Lwow GP at it's right place but still without a date. I will give you credit there as well at the next update.

[anjakub]

Hans,
I know very well this place.
Congratulations for your hard work.
anjakub (Andrzej Jakubaszek)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Anjakub,
After knowing your full name, I better don't call you "anja" any more.

My only connection with your country is that I have my retired brother living there most of the time, just north of you in the middle between Warszawa and Gdansk at Dzialdowo. I have an open invitation to visit him there whenever I come to Europe. But when I make it there, I instead end up spending the daylight hours in libraries doing research in old auto magazines.

[Marcor]

The Tatra Mountain race was part in the European Mountain Championship in 1930. It was round six or seven as the same day there was the French round of the Championship at Le Mont Ventoux.

Also the same day 2 other Mountain races: Bernica in Switzeland, winner Louis Chiron (Bugatti) and Pontedecimo-Giovi in Italy, winner, Borzacchini (Alfa Romeo 1750)

The calendar of this championship:
round 1: 11 May, Zbraslav Jiloviste (Cz)
round 2: 29 June, Cuneo - Maddalena (Italia)
round 3: 12 July, Shelsley Walsh (UK)
round 4: 10 August, Klausen (Switzerland)
round 5: 17 August, Bergrekord (Germany)
round 6 or 7: 24 August, Tatra (Poland
round 6 or 7: 24 August, Mont Ventoux
round 8: 14 September, Semmering (Austria)
round 9: 21 September, Svab (Hungary)
round 10: 29 September, Feleac (Rumania)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Marc,
Two more races were held on August 24, 1930.
1.) 6th Ratisbona Mountain Climb (Kehlheim, D, 4.000 km), won by Max Hardegg (Steyr).
2.) Sudeten Mountain Climb (Riesengebirgsrennen, 2nd? D, 4.000 km), won by Adolf Brudes (Bugatti T37A).

[anjakub]

Vitesse 2 send me map of the Lwow track from Georgano Encyclopaedia.
Thanks

And...
We find real Lwow track with sharp bends in Darren Galpin site.
Besides the name of one street in Encyclopaedia is false. In Lwow before WWII was Abrahamowiczow street, not Abramowiczow.

[indyricefan13]

Hey,
I wasn't around this forum when this discussion started but I thought we might ressurect it if enough people are interested. I have lived in Lviv (Ukrainian spelling of Lwow) all my life. I am a Ukrainian but I recognize that great history my hometown has connected to Poland.
Do you have any more information about the Lviv Grand Prix because it really is interesting. I am a fan of Indy car racing so my knowledge is pretty much limited to the history of the Indy 500 and the Championship Trail. Shame on me that I don't know much about the history of racing in my own town.

[indyricefan13]

I have a little bit of info which might be true and might not be true.
Antoni Heller started the Lviv Grand Prix in 1930 and retired after losing a wheel on lap 8. At the beginning of the 20th centry a certain Ludvig Heller lived inb Lviv and was the director of the famous Opera Theatre. He lived in a nice house on the corner of what now are Melnyka and Konovalca street with his wife who was an opera singer.
Maybe there was some connection between A.Heller and L.Heller, who lived in Lviv.
Could anyone specify where Antoni Heller was from?