9 replies to this topic

[marion5drsn]

Packard Aero-Marine engines new book (2000a.d). Robert J Neal, 366 pages.
Full of stuff about how difficult it was to design properly. One engine Packard designed in 1919 was a V-8 at 60-degree bank and a 180-degree crankshaft. I wonder how that one
was on Horizontal Secondary Shake? Fortunately they only built about 20 of them! The picture shows one of them with a broken crankcase and the nose of the crank was pointing uphill.
Book tells about the Packard Marine V-12 2500 cubic inch engine for the PT Boats and how it got started in 1925 as an aircraft engine. By the time it got to 1939 it wasn’t the same engine. One of the main things that were dropped was the articulated rods and the adoption of fork and blade rods in 1939. 366 pages. M.L. Anderson

[Alvega]

Of course the best Packard engine was... the Rolls Royce Merlin of Mustang fame !

[Gerr]

Actually the best Rolls-Royce engine was built by Packard...
http://www.thehistor...s/2001/0901.htm

[Mike Argetsinger]

Since we're talking about Packard engines it reminds me that in 1919 Ralph DePalma set a new Land Speed Record (although not universally recognized) on the beaches of Daytona in a Packard Twin Six at 149.87 MPH. The engine displacement was 904.8 cubic inches. It was descended from the Liberty engines but varied in some technical aspects. I have a photo of the car and it is very advanced in appearance for its time. Other later successful LSR attempts powered by a Packard engine included Parry Thomas who in 1925 raised the mark to 169.238 MPH. Packard set the standard for American automotive engineering until its sad demise in 1956.

[Alvega]

Legend also says that Enzo Ferrari was so impressed with the Packard V12 that he decided all the cars he would build would have this kind of engine architecture.

[karlcars]

Could we have some info on the publisher? Sounds interesting.

[marion5drsn]

Sorry Karl I just did not write the whole thing in there. It is,

"Master Motor Builders" by Robert J. Neal
Tennant's Aviation Books
P.O. Box 1695
Auburn, WA 98071-1695 U.S.A.$65.00+ shipping.
The other book is about the speed records, "Packards at Speed"
other info is the same.

[rdrcr]

I just noticed this thread.... I also noticed Marion’s reference to the Neal book. It’s the one to get on non-automotive Packard engines.

Being a little bit of a Packard authority, (I was in the restoration business and specialized in the Marque) I can tell you that the V12's of the thirties were some of the smoothest most powerful engines produced. Derivatives and specially built Packard engines found their way into not only aircraft but powerboats as well.

These large V-12 engines were the descendents of the famous Liberty design of the First World War. These big Packard engines were frequently used in military aircraft in the 1920s racing and speed competitions. Unfortunately, they proved to be less than reliable, and Packard was out of the aircraft engine business by 1928. The liquid cooled Packard was most famous in the Curtiss RC racer, but was also used as the powerplant for the Boeing FB-5.

While my expertise was far more focused upon the automotive side of the company and even more specifically to the Thirties cars, I can offer this; Packard was responsible for the development of powerful and lightweight marine engines from 1919 through the end of World War II. The design and development of the Liberty V12's and V8's during the second half of 1917 was almost exclusively Packard's work. Packard produced over 6,500 Liberties for the war effort. As government surplus, these engines became the basis of thousands of Liberty marine conversions made famous by the famous Gar Wood boat company and others during the 20's and 30's.



This replica of Racing boat driven by Gar Wood - The Miss America VII was powered by 2 Packard V12 engines.

As an aside to the reputation of smoothness and power of the automotive Packard V12, It was said to be so vibration free that a glass of water placed upon the top of radiator would not ripple. I can testify that a perfectly restored Packard V12 will still demonstrate this marvel of engineering balance.

And it has been noted in Enzo Ferrari’s memoirs, that when he decided to build a the most powerful motor for his racing cars, it was Packard’s V12 that inspired him to use the same configuration.

Packard also had many engineering “firsts” as an auto manufacturer – here are just some of the many:

The first to use an “H” pattern in a shifting mechanism - 1899
The first automobile Co. to use a steering wheel instead of a tiller –1901
First car (Grey Wolf) in the US to speed faster than a mile a minute – 1903
First to locate the hand brake on the left of the driver – 1915
First Aluminum pistoned engine – 1915
First hypoid differential – 1925
First with hydraulic shock absorbers – 1926
First to install backup lights – 1927
First Pressurized cooling system – 1933
First central automatic chassis lubrication system – 1933
First power hydraulic brakes – 1936
First automobile air conditioning – 1939
First sealed beam headlights – 1939

The list goes on and on well into the 50’s

Check out the Packard Club’s website at http://www.packardclub.org/

[Gerr]

"Ask the man who owns one."

[marion5drsn]

Just got thru with the vibration problem on the Packard 1A-825 aircraft engine of 1920. The results are based on Kalb’s formula and the information from Marks book,”The Airplane Engine”, 1922. It’s no wonder that no one made engines of this type after the Packard. If anyone did, they didn’t have Kalb’s formula. It made the Hispano-Suiza 718 cu. in. engine look like a turbine on vibration. Does anyone know of any V-8 with a 60-degree bank angle and a flat (180 degree) crank? With no counterweights!
It seems incredible that a company that made the V-12 (Twin Six) could make a mistake like this. Luckily they only made twenty of them! It very likely kept them from getting a reputation as bad as the Sunbeam Arab (The worlds worst V-8 engine). Yours, M.L. Anderson