12 replies to this topic

[Graham Clayton]

I read that in the final race of the 2001 CART series at Fontana,
there were over 70 lead changes. This went close to the US record,
which is held by a NASCAR race from the mid 90's.

I thought I might ask the following questions
a) most different leaders in a F1 race
b) most changes of lead (could be 2 drivers
dicing, and constantly changing positions)

Any suggestions?

[Wolf]

Graham, I watched the race, and what a farce of an ending it had... BTW, just to make it harder on the people looking for the race to best it- AFAIK those were only 'end-lap' lead changes (if driver was passed for the lead and then repassed on the same lap- it would not count). And the race had 19 different race leaders, a figure that will hardly be bested by GP race... nevertheless, off top of my head I'd go for '53 GP de l'A.C.F., but I cannot substanie it.

[rdrcr]

At Monza in the 1964 Grand Prix, there were 41 lead changes, the most ever. John Surtees had won from pole with fastest lap the year before when there had been 27 lead changes.

For F1, The 1971 Italian Grand Prix is well-known for many reasons. It was the fastest race ever at 242.615 kph, 150.754 mph. Peter Gethin crossed the line just 0.010s ahead of Ronnie Peterson for the closest ever finish, and the first five cars were covered by a second. There were eight different lap leaders - the most ever with 25 changes of lead.

From none other than AtlasF1 Vol 6. Issue 36

[FEV]

For both a) and b) I would say a Monza slip-streaming ballet in 1970 or 1971. IIRC those two races each had the same number of changes of lead, around 25. I bet the 17 races of the 2001 F1 season don't come close to it Of course as for the CART race this only counts different leaders at the end of each lap, and a Monza lap is three times longer than a Fontana lap...

Wolf, you are right about Fontana, a sad end to a sad championship. What a terrible year this was for CART. And 2002 doesn't look promising either

[Barry Boor]

Slightly O.T, but relevant to CART at Fontana; I thought I was watching NASCAR. Dragging a vertical barn door around behind the car certainly has succeeded???? Yes, succeeded in bringing utter mediocrity to a series that has already become tantamount to farcical this year.

The commentators boast that 'anyone can win in CART' and that's true, near enough, but is it really good????

If you consider the whole season, the end at Fontana was totally predictable. So why do I watch it? It's motor racing, man, that's why!

[BMW FW22]

Michigan this year where very much more leaders than at fontana, or am i wrong?

[Wolf]

FMW, I don't think so. They were saying that this (no of lead changes and no of different leaders) were CART all time records (some race last year had 18 leaders, and don't remember about lead changes), but I was reluctant to say something to that effect not being sure whether they were having troubles (re. history) like people in F1...

[Racer.Demon]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
The commentators boast that 'anyone can win in CART' and that's true, near enough, but is it really good????

You voice my feelings to the word, Barry. It was not just that anyone could have won at Fontana. For almost all of the 400 miles eventually covered everyone was trying not to lead the race in order to win it. The only race I saw was the ten-lap sprint to the flag. So what's the point in having a record number of lead changes? I heard even more radio calls that said 'You're going too fast! Back off!' than there were lead changes!

I thought the 'economy-run' days of F1 in the eighties had a certain degree of ridiculousness but these superspeedway farces are beating that by a healthy margin. Why is it that Nigel Roebuck still rates CART?

But you're right, they're still fast cars, so I watched it...

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon



But you're right, they're still fast cars, so I watched it...

They are fast cars, but they were lapping 15mph or so slower than they were capable of. And still they were blowing engines. Fontana capped a season of growing frustration for me, to the point where I was questioning why I was settling down to watch. The anticipation derived from the Fittipaldi, Mansell, Zanardi, Montoya days has nearly expired

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by rdrcr
At Monza in the 1964 Grand Prix, there were 41 lead changes, the most ever. John Surtees had won from pole with fastest lap the year before when there had been 27 lead changes.

Jim Clark won the 1963 Italian Grand Prix, and set fastest lap.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by rdrcr
At Monza in the 1964 Grand Prix, there were 41 lead changes, the most ever. John Surtees had won from pole with fastest lap the year before when there had been 27 lead changes.

For F1, The 1971 Italian Grand Prix is well-known for many reasons. It was the fastest race ever at 242.615 kph, 150.754 mph. Peter Gethin crossed the line just 0.010s ahead of Ronnie Peterson for the closest ever finish, and the first five cars were covered by a second. There were eight different lap leaders - the most ever with 25 changes of lead.

From none other than AtlasF1 Vol 6. Issue 36

As Roger said, the 1963 edition was won by Jimmy. Surtees won in 1964, while the 1965 edition -won by JYS- was a very close one. Perhaps those 41 lead changes refer to the 1965 Italian GP?

And about the 1971 edition: remember Chris Amons' typical dose of bad luck:(

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Wolf
...nevertheless, off top of my head I'd go for '53 GP de l'A.C.F., but I cannot substanie it.

The 1953 Grand Prix de l'ACF had 12 lead changes if we restrict ourselves to the end of lap. Of couse, if we make that restriction, it does help to have a large number of short laps.

[rdrcr]

I beleive I'm mistaken, I concur that it was Surtees in '64...

I think I mis-read the the informaton.

Here's a link, see for yourselves.

http://www.atlasf1.c...iew/italap.html

Here is the paragraph verbatum

There were 32 starters in 1961, the second highest for a Grand Prix and, not surprisingly, the second most retirements ever too at 20. BRM finished 1-2 the next year and again three years later when there were 41 lead changes, the most ever. John Surtees had won from pole with fastest lap the year before when there had been 27 lead changes. Honda's first race win was in 1967 at Monza while Jackie Stewart's victory over Jochen Rindt in 1969 was the fourth closest ever at 0.080s - soon to be eclipsed.

I failed to add a year to the year BRM won (62) and instead added the three years to the 61 stat.

THX -