89 replies to this topic

[Jackman]

So Bernie is now moving into Autocourse territory by releasing an annual round up in hardback - of course this probably due to his economic problems, but nevertheless this is going to cause people some problems; which one do you buy?

Autocourse is a tradition, and I have loads of them going back many years, so I want to keep going with that. But Bernie has bought up everyone ever to write or shoot for his annual (with the exception of the F1 Racing crew, the Autocourse crew, and Todd's mate Nigel Roebuck), so it's bound to be okay. Although it's edited by Nigel Mansell, so that's a negative. And the cover is ugly (why all the black?).

Plus it's pitched at just under Autocourse's price.
Plus it's limited to 50,000 copies, adding to the collectability.
Plus it's the first issue (see above point).

Damn you Bernie, damn you.

[Louis Mr. F1]

To be honest, I don't find Autocourse the best annual out there. I have 15 of them but I think they are NOT any special anymore. Everyyear is about the same, you can more or less expect what they have. The photos are ok but not the best. I have a feeling that Autocouse is just a Autosport magazine printed on better quality paper. The race reports are plain. Well they have the top 10, but so what? I can make up a top 10 list myself, why does Alan Henry's worth more than my own? (and his is very bias, can you imagine he put Hill #1 and Schuey #2 in 94?) And they are getting more expensive every year. I will still buy it becuase it's a collection.

My preference is the Formula 1 Yearbook, a bigger format, no advertisement, superb pictures, and also, not only they report the race, but it includes other "news" during the GP weekend and interesting articles. One year they used different nationalities journalists to write a long article on their country's involvement in F1 eg. Germany, Japan, Canada, Britain, France, Italy. They use smaller font letters so that they can put more into content. they also give more insight into smaller teams and they focus on F1 only!

And Bernie's new one, I still decide when I see it in person. It depends on the articles and pictures.

[John B]

There have been a couple other attempts to produce annuals that have died out in fairly short order. I have a couple from the mid-1980s titled "Grand Prix." They have a lot of pictures, and were probably half Autocourse's price. They seemed well done, it's probably a case of having to overcome something that's been established for such a long time like Autocourse. Personally I don't buy annuals like I used to, mainly due to the price - there's always something else I can buy with $55 and I get a couple magazines and a weekly as is. If there was a particularly memorable year I would buy one though.

[bira]

Autocourse, imo, is not what it used to be. Its primary assets have dwindled over the years and remains with the Top Ten. Remove that, and you got a hardcover F1 Racing issue.

Can't possibly comment on the F1 Annual, though, as I haven't seen it. It sounds yummy to me especially because of Piola and the news round-up alongside the features, which should make it what a true annual ought to be. But I will reserve judgement until I see it. Oh, yes, I ordered a copy

p.s.

I'm not sure this is the actual cover Jackman. I think it was a working production cover they have used for the promotions. I've no idea what the cover actually looks like -- I think it is being revealed in London right now, as we speak.

[Jackman]

I can't disagree with you Bira - I have last years issue but really have done little other than flick through it. The top ten list seems to be what sells it to people (other than the continuation of the collection), and generally I can pick the drivers that will make it anyway (which is not to say that I agree, but rather it's easy to pick what Henry likes).

I really hope that the cover changes - everyone knows that dark covers don't sell ...

[HSJ]

I haven't received my Annual yet, but if it like the mag it will blow Autocourse away. Autocourse -- how shall I put this -- sucks. I know people love it, but its analyses are too shallow for my taste. They are clearly made in the type: "oh, I like this guy, don't you? So we rate him highly, and only THEN we try to figure out how to justify it. Certainly we don't consider actually figuring things out from square one, because then our results could be something other than the accepted dogma." Sure, if you pretend to be F1 Racing mag it is OK, but Autocourse (same for Rallycourse) pretend to be serious. It fails. Sorry. F1 Mag Annual doesn't need to improve at all from their mag level to be easily better than Autocourse.

[FredF1]

Yep Autocourse ain't what it used to be.

I reckon a lot of the trouble stems from the internet.

We don't need to wait until the end of season annual anymore.
I can find out detailed reports of any race within an hour or so of it finishing.

Maybe it's just been since I have regular internet access that I find Autocourse not as informative as I used to.

I don't think I even finished reading the 2000 edition.

Is it just me?
Or is there a lot fewer 'Analysis' side panels in the last two editions?

[Louis Mr. F1]

John B, I think the "Grand Prix" yearbook was by Nigel Roebuck and it was pretty good, with nice pictures from John Townsend. I bought one last year at a toy show in Toronto for $20. and I've located a 85 one at $30 (maybe i'll buy it for my X'mas present) except that it has mostly b/w pictures. The quality of the overall yearbook was quite good.
I agree that Autocourse lack of good analysis and they have a mentality that we're the #1 in F1 yearbook and people can't afford not to buy it, so we can put in minimal effort and it will still sell. I found that I'm not as excited as I used to be when I buy a new copy of Autocourse. There is no analysis on different aspect of the GP circus. Plain, too plain
and John B, $55? that must be long time ago you bought one, now we are talking more like $75, $80 Cdn and soon it will hit $100 but with decreasing quality.

[Don Capps]

I have the first "annual" issue of Autocourse -- 1961, after losing a ton of the quarterly issues (some dating back to 1954) and 1962 thru 1967 (I never had 1968 since I was in Viet-Nam when it came out) and the 1970 and 1971 issues, I have 1969 and all from 1972 to date. In reality, the past decade or so I have simply bought them to keep the collection going since they are so-so now. FOCA did an annual in the late-'80s that was okay, and there have a few others as well -- few that good. Jody Scheckter autographed my 1979 issue by the way.

I find that they're just not whatever it was that they were. I also have all the Autocourse CART annuals and they are also tapering off in quality.

Generally speaking, today Autocourse is deadly dull and just a coffeetable book in the worse sense of that term. In the past few years I have debated whether or not to purchase them, wimping out and buying it since I already have so many and don't want to break the collection.

[FredF1]

Yep.

I reckon I don't get excited about Autocourse anymore either.

I can recall pestering my local Waterstones every year with "Is it in yet? Is it in yet?"

The last 2 years it's been like "Oh, it's in. I'll pick it up next week maybe."

[tim]

I bought the Autocourse 1997 annual. I thought it was quite good. I didn't really like the ads in it and it wasn't too in depth.

I just this minute ordered the F1 magazine annual from Amazon. If it's half as good as the magazine, I'll be happy. It has John Barnard and Giorgio Piola doing techie reviews, which is a big . Hopefully it'll keep me going until March next year ;)

[AgRacer]

Tim,

could you post a link on Amazon, I can't seem to find it.

thanks

Oh, and I used to really like Autocourse, but the Hill over Schumi thing in '94, and other "biased" reporting really turned me off. I only get it because nothing better was available.

[tim]

It's only available on Amazon UK at the moment. I'm in the UK so that's not an issue for me ;) I checked Amazon US and Barnes & Noble in case you're in the US and were looking there and you're right - it's not there.

Amazon UK link: here.

Amazon UK will probably ship to you if you're not in the UK.

It also looks like you can order it from the magazine's web site. They will ship to the US and wherever... here.

Here's what the mag's web site says will be in the annual:

Review section - 57 pages - The news review of 2001
Driver profiles - 32 pages - All the drivers that competed in 2001
Team reviews - 240 pages - A detailed review of all 11 teams that competed
Race reports - 138 pages - All 17 races editorially and statistically
Technical/Index/Directory - 54 pages - A technical review of the season race by race
Statistics - 72 pages - The World Championship from 1950 to 2000

Edit: crap formatting.
Edit (2): more info added.

[Zawed]

Autocourse is not what it used to be. Like others on this thread I used to wait with antipaction for it each year, but I did'nt buy last years (lack of $$) and I was'n that fussed about it. I will get it soon, but only really to keep the collection going.

[AD]

A bit off topic, but what a surprise that there's another Senna article in F1 Magazine

[MrAerodynamicist]

..and yet another "Why more Senna articles?" letter in the back page

[AdrianM]

Does the F1 Magazine continue through the off season?. I am here in Australia and the latest issue we have is October.

[The Voice of Reason]

OK, I bought it. The only negative thing I can think to write is that some of the content is familiar from reading F1 magazine but most of it was/is new to me (although I confess I haven't read every issue of F1 Magazine cover to cover...).

In response to the title of the thread, I have to say the F1 Magazine Annual blows Autocourse out of the water. Honestly, there's just no comparison - F1 Mag Annual is bigger and better in every way and my Autocourse collection just officially ended. I recommend it to everyone as the best season review available by a wide margin.

Now roll on the 2001 season DVD!

[mikedeering]

I was tempted to buy the F1 Annual, until I flicked through a copy in my local bookstore. I wasn't impressed. To me, it appears identical to the race reports in F1 Magazine. Obviously I couldn't very well whip out my magazine collection in the sotre, but I wouldn't be too surprised if much of the content was just lifted straight from the magazine.

There were quite a few adverts in it (although admittedly Autocourse is guilty of this too) and the page quality compared to Autocoruse was rubbish - the pages feel thin and too glossy. I prefer the quality of Autocourse on this score. The paper actually felt pretty similar to the magazine. Although is it 600+ pages, a lot of this is taken up by the stats section at the back, which just features all the results of every WC race since 1950. I am sure this would appeal to some, but I already have numerous books detailing these stats, not to mention Forix.com. The stats are pruely that - no brief overview of the season is given, yet this section alone must account for many pages - at least 50 I would say.

So I am sticking to Autocourse - if only to get Roebuck's reporting.

[bira]

Originally posted by mikedeering
So I am sticking to Autocourse - if only to get Roebuck's reporting.

I take it you are collecting Autocourse for many years, in the hope that one day maybe you will get Roebuck's reporting?;)

To the best of my knowledge, Nigel Roebuck is not an editorial member or contributor of Autorouse. You must be confusing Autocourse with Autosport?

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by bira


I take it you are collecting Autocourse for many years, in the hope that one day maybe you will get Roebuck's reporting?;)

To the best of my knowledge, Nigel Roebuck is not an editorial member or contributor of Autorouse. You must be confusing Autocourse with Autosport?

Hmmm - I learnt a long time ago that Bira is always right

Actually, does Roebuck contribute to any GP annual anymore? He used to in the late 1980s for an Australian Publication - titled Grand Prix 198x. It was fairly lightweight - 160 pages, but not bad. I have copies from 1985-1989 (number volume 1-5) - but I think they stopped publishing them after that. I certainly never saw one again - shame.

[bira]

Mike, earlier in this thread John B and Louis Mr. F1 are talking about Roebuck's "Grand Prix" annual. I haven't seen it myself but it certainly sounds intriguing.

As for Roebuck writing for others - I've no idea. I think he has an exclusive contract with Haymarket so I don't think they are likely to let him write for a rivaling publication. But I am just guessing on this - I don't really know why he hasn't written to others.

[OssieFan]

For years I've been wanting to buy the Autosport annual at the end of the year although a lack of funding has prevented me from doing so.

Instead, I usually buy the Autosport magazine year review annual.....thing. It's much cheaper so I suspect it isn't nearly as good as the more expensive ones. I also have a couple of Murray's review books which I found to be quite good.

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
John B, I think the "Grand Prix" yearbook was by Nigel Roebuck and it was pretty good, with nice pictures from John Townsend. I bought one last year at a toy show in Toronto for $20. and I've located a 85 one at $30 (maybe i'll buy it for my X'mas present) except that it has mostly b/w pictures. The quality of the overall yearbook was quite good.
I agree that Autocourse lack of good analysis and they have a mentality that we're the #1 in F1 yearbook and people can't afford not to buy it, so we can put in minimal effort and it will still sell. I found that I'm not as excited as I used to be when I buy a new copy of Autocourse. There is no analysis on different aspect of the GP circus. Plain, too plain
and John B, $55? that must be long time ago you bought one, now we are talking more like $75, $80 Cdn and soon it will hit $100 but with decreasing quality.

As I said before, I have all 5 volumes of Grand Prix by Nigel Roebuck. Only the 1985 edition had B&W pictures - from 86 onwards it was full colour. Another plus point was the book had no advertising.

I think it was aimed at the Australian market. The first edition came out in 1985 - the year of the first "Championship" Aussie GP (didn't want to call it the first Aussie GP!) and had a feature on this - "The Monaco of the South" it was titled! Also, in every edition, the Australian GP had the longest report - typically there were 6 pages per GP, but Adelaide always got 8-10 pages - valid for 1986, but not necessary for the other years!

It was really good - shame it died.

OT - Louis - I've found my 1989 and 1990 British F3 video reviews - classic Mika footage - he looked so young! I will PM you later once I've watched them again.

[Maldwyn]

Bernie's annual arrived on my doorstep this morning but I've only had time for a very quick look before heading off to work It's a heafty volume and very nicely produced. There are comprehensive articles on each team, driver and race as well as a technical review and loads of stats.
I would say though, from the brief look I've had, that if you've been buying the magazine all season there will be a lot you have already seen...

[bira]

I'd like to say something on the issue of repetition - this without actually seeing the Annual, though.

I think people are expecting the near-impossible when they think an Annual can avoid repeating some of the stuff that was already included in the monthly magazine. After all, when you cover an event extensively, there's very little you could later mount to it, and only rarely does hindsight and time offer a new perspective to events.

The F1 Annual should be seen as the textual counterpart of the Video (or DVD) season review: it is a complilation coverage of the season, offering detailed information of each of the Grands Prix, each of the participants and each of the cars. Assuming the annual becomes a tradition, in years to come, when you will want to look into what happened at the Austrian GP of 2001, you will pick up the annual rather than go searching for the April edition of the magazine.

Annuals are primarily a collectors item in my opinion. As such, they should have a value lasting beyond the first-time read they offer. So the question is, as a reference book for the 2001 season, which annual provides that kind of value best - Autocourse or the F1 Annual?

[John B]

Bira, The Grand Prix annuals were formatted like a mini-Autocourse: for example in 1985 there were 3 or 4 articles (Prost profile, Senna's rise, Lauda's retirement), then a short overview of the teams/drivers (photo of the car and head shots of the drivers with short bios), then the race reports, ranging from 4+ pages (I also remember that Monaco South title). It was a compact but informative and well illustrated product.

I didn't know the it lasted all the way to 1989 though. I'd be interested getting a year or two from that period if any turn up.

[mikedeering]

John B - the Grand Prix series pretty much retained the same format from 1985, although over the years gradually increased the number og pages devoted to each GP (1989 had pretty much 8 or 10 pages per GP, against 1985 which had 5 I believe for Spa/Europe. The increased race footage was at the expense of other articles. because each edition was consistent in being 160 pages long.

1985 - Red jacket with Prost
1986 - Blue jacket with Mansell (interesting - the only time the WDC that season wasn't on the cover!)
1987 - Yellow jacket with Piquet
1988 - Red jacket with Senna
1989 - Red jacket with Prost

All very interesting for everyone I am sure. I now realise why they stopped publishing it after 1989 - I must have been the only one buying it after 1985!!!

[Louis Mr. F1]

mike,

that's interesting, the 86 one I have has Prost on the cover with his McLaren car in bottom.
maybe the one you have is for the Britain market so they used Mansell instead of the World Champion of that year?

Louis

[FredF1]

I have the 1987 one.

I found it in a discount book store.
Kept going back to see if they got any other years - no such luck.

Not a bad annual from what I recall.

Not that I've read it in a while - it's in storage at the opposite end of the country right now.

[Louis Mr. F1]

There's a 85 Grand Prix Yearbook for sale on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/...item=1034461243
~ 10 USD + shipping
seller in Australia, 2 days to expiry

this is the cover

[AgRacer]

thanks tim.

I'll make sure my wife knows it's on my Christmas list. Maybe this year I'll get my Annual before the holiday since it's already out, whereas Autocourse us not usually available in the US until the 1st of the year.

[Mat]

I had a look at the F1 Magazine 2001 Annual for the first time on the weekend. I was planning on buying it, but once I saw it, I was very disappointed. Not only does it repeat what was written in the monthly issues but it is identical in layout and seems to be completely reproduced (in layout, content, photography). The only 'new' information is driver and ream reviews, which we have have read ad naseum in every other publication. It has many more pages than Autocourse, but this is mostly to do with the 1950-2001 statistics at the back.

I would wait for Autocourse.

Mat

[black magic]

please keep the reviews coming. kind of reassured by others more negative impressions of autocourse annual which got me started on f1 years ago. somehow manage to make even exciting gp dull.

for those of us poised to order our annual review though the opinions help.

[stevew01]

The five volumes of Grand Prix (1985-89) are currently being auctioned on eBay with about 24 hours to go. The initial bids are for 14.95 pounds each, but none of them have had any bids yet.

They can be found by searching eBay for Autocourse.


Steve

[Zawed]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
mike,

that's interesting, the 86 one I have has Prost on the cover with his McLaren car in bottom.
maybe the one you have is for the Britain market so they used Mansell instead of the World Champion of that year?

Louis

I have the 1986 one as well, but I was'nt that impressed with it. Nothing really wrong with it, but I would prefer a bit more indepth info on drivers/teams/races than it actually gave.

[Maldwyn]

Autocourse appeared on my doorstep this morning and it's like meeting up with an old friend again. Slightly revamped this year in terms of text fonts and design but generally the same as last year. Solid, dependable, valuable in years to come and still a good read.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by Maldwyn
Autocourse appeared on my doorstep this morning and it's like meeting up with an old friend again. Slightly revamped this year in terms of text fonts and design but generally the same as last year. Solid, dependable, valuable in years to come and still a good read.

Can you tell us the top 10 drivers of 2001?

[Maldwyn]

This year's edition is dedicated to George Harrison

If you dont want to know the top 10 then don't read the next post....

[Maldwyn]

1 Michael Schumacher
2 David Coulthard
3 Juan Pablo Montoya
4 Ralf Schumacher
5 Mika Hakkinen
6 Rubens Barrichello
7 Nick Heidfeld
8 Kimi Raikkonen
9 Giancarlo Fisichella
10 Jarno Trulli

[Mr Melvin]

Not a top ten really. Why Hakkinen is 5 i don't know. He's lucky to be in the top ten.

It's also good to see that he didn't fall for the hype and has rightly put Heidfeld in front of Raikkonen.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Mr Melvin
Not a top ten really. Why Hakkinen is 5 i don't know. He's lucky to be in the top ten.

It's also good to see that he didn't fall for the hype and has rightly put Heidfeld in front of Raikkonen.

If you're talking about Autocourse's driver ratings (Alan Henry's?), they've always been crap. Just crap. Sorry.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by HSJ
(Alan Henry's?), they've always been crap. Just crap. Sorry.

Just one man's opinion - we're all entitled to an opinion.

[Arrow]

Mika at 5 is a joke.I also dont think DC should of been second.He disapeared from trace after monaco.

[Sir Frank]

Hi

Im planning on ordering some yearbooks from the past. I have the 95 and the 2000 Formula1 yearbook from Domenjoz, but do not own one single Autocourse annual. The prices are similar.

Can somebody help which one to buy?

What are the differences between the two?

Thank You

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Sir Frank
Hi

Im planning on ordering some yearbooks from the past. I have the 95 and the 2000 Formula1 yearbook from Domenjoz, but do not own one single Autocourse annual. The prices are similar.

Can somebody help which one to buy?

What are the differences between the two?

Thank You

Depends what you're after. Autocourse is about
70% F1, 10% CART, 10% sports cars, 10% everything
else, and still carries advertising. It's
worth the cover price in that it's written by
respected journalists, has good photography, is
printed on nice paper, and, if you're that way
inclined, is pretty much bound to appreciate in
value. Whatever people may say, it's probably the
"journal of record" for international racing.

Hazelton used to do a cheaper "Grand Prix Year"
annual that just concentrated on F1. There was
also a rather good Australian annual that (since
Roebuck was involved) had reportage that used to
look suspiciously similar to that in Autosport.

The Domenjoz yearbooks are fairly poorly
translated, but the layout and photography is
a bit more imaginative than Autocourse. I've
got a couple of them and I perceive a
definite bias towards Prost/Ligier/French
drivers/teams/technology. On the other hand,
they're very cheap in the UK - you can often
pick them up for under a tenner. It's solely
F1, though. For what amounts to a family effort
they're pretty damn good, but they lack the
"gravitas" of Autocourse, to me.

I'm surprised you say the prices are similar
- at least in the UK the RRP of the Domenjoz
books is 25 quid but they're usually a tenner in
most shops and end up a fiver the next season -
Autocourse usually sinks to about half its cover
price after a couple of years, sticks there
for a while and then starts appreciating - I've
extended my collection back from 88 to 83-4 by
looking out for fairly well-used "reading copies"
but it's now starting to get painful! (Hint:
it's far cheaper getting a Jaguar-badged 83-4
than it is one with Piquet on it - since Piquet's
my least-favourite Champion ever, that suits
me fine!)

A modern option, if you want to start
a contemporary collection, is the official
Bernie F1 annual. They only started last year,
and are gigantic (about 700 pages) and most of
the material is lifted from F1 Magazine, but if
what you want is an utterly complete record of
the GP season it's unmissable.

You might also consider Automobile Year, a glossy
annual that mixes racing and road cars - though
I've not seen this for a few years.

"Automobile Sport" ran a few very good yearbooks
in the mid-Eighties, worth getting hold of, and
if your interests run to the Seventies then the
John Player motorsport yearbooks are a good bet
(and are still pretty cheap).

pete

[Louis Mr. F1]

I believe the F1 Yearbook by Domenjoz is superior to Autocourse. I've bought every issue since 1991 and unlike Autocourse, it improves everyyear. True, in the first few years, their translation wasn't that good, but lately, this problem has mainly been rectified.

An Autocourse may have perfect English, but what's the good of it if the analysis is nothing?

F1 Yearbook, much cheaper (50-60% lower)
More pictures, similar or better quality
Better and more analysis on many aspects of F1

If i receive both Autocourse and the F1 Yearbook in the mail, I will read the F1 Yearbook first.
YOu know, it's sad that Autocourse has sunk so low in my mind because I used to really love it.

Also, most importantly, i could sense that the F1 Yearbook staff are really putting in the effort to produce a respectable yearbook despite their comparatively limited resources/money, i will give my support to them. On the other hand, it angers me that Autocourse, with its tradition and backup by Hazleton, is content with what they have and its quality hasn't improved in the past few years (or even getting worse)

Immediately after i bought the first issue of the F1 Yearbook in 1991, i already told my friends that this one is even better than Autocourse and it's still true.

[Sir Frank]

Thank you guys and Bira for taking the time, I appreciate it a lot. I did search, but only for Domenjoz, which only provided 1 result in the Nostalgia Forum.

I checked Chaters, they have a nice collection of both Autocourse and the Domenjoz books.
I have been after the cheaper issues first. For example 1995 Yearbook only costs 2L!! Amazing!
Too bad that I already have that. I have ordered the 98, 99, 2001 books, which cost 10L, thats more than acceptable to me. The 97, 98, 99 Autocourse issues cost 6L, 13L, 10L, thats also very nice. Older issues cost a hell of a lot more(45-75-95L) even up to 160L on older versions , whereas F1Yearbooks are 20-30L.

Any good online bookshops you know?
What is the real name of the Bernie annual?

Thanks, again

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Sir Frank
Thank you guys and Bira for taking the time, I appreciate it a lot. I did search, but only for Domenjoz, which only provided 1 result in the Nostalgia Forum.

Any good online bookshops you know?
What is the real name of the Bernie annual?

Thanks, again

I usually do a price comparison on http://www.kelkoo.com if I'm after
something current or recent - they include most of the main online
booksellers in the UK.

(I'll often search Amazon for the book, get the ISBN, and go off and
search by ISBN at Kelkoo to see if I can find it cheaper. I usually
can!)

If I'm after something specialist I usually look at
http://www.abebooks.com/ which indexes the collections of literally
thousands of secondhand, rare, antiquarian or specialist booksellers
and acts as a storefront for many of them.

OK, you don't have the fun of browsing, but I usually know roughly what
I want!

Finally, never underestimate Ebay. The odd fascinating bargain turns up
there.

The Bernie annual is "2001 Formula One Annual".

pete

[Sir Frank]

Thank You petefenelon!

I just checked Ebay before your post. Some bargains there! Some of the older books (Autocourse) you can buy for 5-10L instead of 40-80L!!!

I just ordered 3 Formula 1 Yearbooks from chaters. 30L for the books 9L for postal fees. (I live in Hungary)