Simple question. One often hears complaints that Nigel Roebuck is biased, in the manner of Dennis Jenkinson. Personally, I enjoy such bias. But I want to know - what where Jenks' biases. Was he for or against a certain driver or group of drivers? Was he partial to the British teams? Was he distainful of the march of technology?
Denis Jenkinson
Started by
Pete Stanley
, Nov 26 2001 23:51
194 replies to this topic
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#2
Bernd
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 01:22
DSJ's pet hate was the safety issue which he thought was ruining everything.
#3
Chris Bloom
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 04:10
What were his feelings towards Jackie Stewart?
Chris
Chris
#4
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 04:15
If you see my qoute in the DSJ and German drivers thread you will see that he listed Stewart as one of the greats alongside Fangio, Moss and Clark, though I believe his opinion might have changed when Stewart started his safety campaign.
#5
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 04:18
This letter from DSJ appeared in the August 29, 1968 edition of Motoring News.
I noticed your remarks about that dreadful B.B.C. play on the Mille Miglia and your aside that we used hand signals because there was no inter-com in those days (1955). You are quite wrong, for during pre-race testing we experimented with inter-com and found it useless. Daimler-Benz produced throat microphones and built-in ear speakers for our helmets, with over-riding switches, to-and-from controls and the lot. We tested these round the Hockenheim circuit, with Moss lapping faster and faster while I kept up a running commentary of what we were doing, such as gears, r.p.m., road position and so on. Everything worked well until he began to reach his personal limit round the corners and then he found that he used so much concentration through his eyes, that his hearing faculties failed.
Moss driving at eight-tenths could hear me clearly, at nine-tenths, he was not sure and approaching ten-tenths he did not hear a word I said! This was approaching ten-tenths for Moss, not for you or me; we would have been at about 25-tenths at that point. This natural phenomena is borne out by personal experience of pressing on in a car with a radio playing. I found that if I really start trying I am no longer conscious of the sound of the radio. The brain can put all its efforts into one faculty only, or spread its efforts over a number of faculties to a lesser degree. I doubt whether anyone can talk while driving on the absolute limit of adhesion. After these tests we abandoned all idea of inter-com as there was the chance of a misheard word, or not hearing at all, and we reverted to my foolproof hand signals. (The TV play bore no resemblance to the truth on the hand signals, in spite of what I told the producer and the actor.)
When pace-notes were in their infancy in rallies I discussed this physical phenomena of losing hearing when driving on the limit with Tony Ambrose and Peter Riley, and we came to the conclusion that a rally driver was not such a highly-tuned person as a Grand prix driver, and that they never drove to such fine limits of personal ability, probably because the rally car has such a low limit compared with a Grand Prix car.
This is one reason why I have never been very enthusiastic about rally drivers and rallies. They are spectacular to watch and exciting to ride in, but not very high in the finer points of the art of high-speed driving. Like saloon car racing, it is amusing to watch, but nothing like as exciting from inside the car; I have ridden with saloon car drivers such as Whitmore, Gardner and Fitzpatrick and have always felt that I would rather employ their talents on a more scientific racing machine.
Sorry to have gone on so much, but one of the early lessons I learnt in writing about motoring was to be sure of a fact before making a dogmatic statement such as … (they had no inter-coms then). A final point, apropo of nothing special, was that Daimler-Benz offered us full seat harness (1955) and when we said that we wanted to be thrown out if the car went over a cliff, or end-over-end, they said “We have a harness that comes undone when it is upside down.” We still did not use seat harness, preferring to be able to escape in mid-air if the need arose, rather than stay with the accident. In the proposed SLR coupe that we were going to use in the Pan-American Mexico race at the end of 1955, we were opting for full harness, as there was no easy way out of the gull-wing coupe. In 35 years of motor sport, the cancellation of the Mexico road race before we could complete is one of the few regrets I have.
Denis Jenkinson
Does anyone recall the TV programme that sparked this letter?
And it would be interesting to find out how the present day rally drivers cope with pace-notes. They rely so much on them these days that accidents have happened when a co-driver has called a wrong note.
I noticed your remarks about that dreadful B.B.C. play on the Mille Miglia and your aside that we used hand signals because there was no inter-com in those days (1955). You are quite wrong, for during pre-race testing we experimented with inter-com and found it useless. Daimler-Benz produced throat microphones and built-in ear speakers for our helmets, with over-riding switches, to-and-from controls and the lot. We tested these round the Hockenheim circuit, with Moss lapping faster and faster while I kept up a running commentary of what we were doing, such as gears, r.p.m., road position and so on. Everything worked well until he began to reach his personal limit round the corners and then he found that he used so much concentration through his eyes, that his hearing faculties failed.
Moss driving at eight-tenths could hear me clearly, at nine-tenths, he was not sure and approaching ten-tenths he did not hear a word I said! This was approaching ten-tenths for Moss, not for you or me; we would have been at about 25-tenths at that point. This natural phenomena is borne out by personal experience of pressing on in a car with a radio playing. I found that if I really start trying I am no longer conscious of the sound of the radio. The brain can put all its efforts into one faculty only, or spread its efforts over a number of faculties to a lesser degree. I doubt whether anyone can talk while driving on the absolute limit of adhesion. After these tests we abandoned all idea of inter-com as there was the chance of a misheard word, or not hearing at all, and we reverted to my foolproof hand signals. (The TV play bore no resemblance to the truth on the hand signals, in spite of what I told the producer and the actor.)
When pace-notes were in their infancy in rallies I discussed this physical phenomena of losing hearing when driving on the limit with Tony Ambrose and Peter Riley, and we came to the conclusion that a rally driver was not such a highly-tuned person as a Grand prix driver, and that they never drove to such fine limits of personal ability, probably because the rally car has such a low limit compared with a Grand Prix car.
This is one reason why I have never been very enthusiastic about rally drivers and rallies. They are spectacular to watch and exciting to ride in, but not very high in the finer points of the art of high-speed driving. Like saloon car racing, it is amusing to watch, but nothing like as exciting from inside the car; I have ridden with saloon car drivers such as Whitmore, Gardner and Fitzpatrick and have always felt that I would rather employ their talents on a more scientific racing machine.
Sorry to have gone on so much, but one of the early lessons I learnt in writing about motoring was to be sure of a fact before making a dogmatic statement such as … (they had no inter-coms then). A final point, apropo of nothing special, was that Daimler-Benz offered us full seat harness (1955) and when we said that we wanted to be thrown out if the car went over a cliff, or end-over-end, they said “We have a harness that comes undone when it is upside down.” We still did not use seat harness, preferring to be able to escape in mid-air if the need arose, rather than stay with the accident. In the proposed SLR coupe that we were going to use in the Pan-American Mexico race at the end of 1955, we were opting for full harness, as there was no easy way out of the gull-wing coupe. In 35 years of motor sport, the cancellation of the Mexico road race before we could complete is one of the few regrets I have.
Denis Jenkinson
Does anyone recall the TV programme that sparked this letter?
And it would be interesting to find out how the present day rally drivers cope with pace-notes. They rely so much on them these days that accidents have happened when a co-driver has called a wrong note.
#6
troyf1
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 04:25
From what I understand Ayrton Senna never had a bigger fan than DSJ.
#7
Chris Bloom
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 04:30
Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
If you see my qoute in the DSJ and German drivers thread you will see that he listed Stewart as one of the greats alongside Fangio, Moss and Clark, though I believe his opinion might have changed when Stewart started his safety campaign.
That was the next thread I read
and I noticed your comments. The reason I had asked was because I am always hearing about this safety crusade of JYS while he was racing and I can imagine that would have rubbed DSJ up the wrong way? Also possibly JYS now likes to over emphasise his role in improving safety back then seeing as it is such a feature of modern F1? Maybe he was, he doesn't come across as the most modest person though!Chris
#8
Pete Stanley
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 05:11
Ooops! I should have read the board closely before starting a new thread. 
Don, could you merge the threads?
Don, could you merge the threads?
#9
Haddock
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 11:32
I remember that shortly after DSJ's death, Nigel Roebuck remarked that after years of following the ups and downs of F1, DSJ finally began to lose interest in the sport after Senna's death in F1.
Of Michael Schumacher he remarked that "he's very quick but I just can't get excited about him"
Of course, his loss of interest might have had as much to do with failing health as anything else, but for the most part I don't think he was anti-technology. He certainly seemed to be in awe of the turbo-era cars, looking back on his reports for motorsport at the time.
I agree that sports journalists with opinions and biases are much more interesting than straight 'reporters of facts'.
I've always shared more of my prejudices with DSJ than Roebuck but both are great to read
Of Michael Schumacher he remarked that "he's very quick but I just can't get excited about him"
Of course, his loss of interest might have had as much to do with failing health as anything else, but for the most part I don't think he was anti-technology. He certainly seemed to be in awe of the turbo-era cars, looking back on his reports for motorsport at the time.
I agree that sports journalists with opinions and biases are much more interesting than straight 'reporters of facts'.
I've always shared more of my prejudices with DSJ than Roebuck but both are great to read
#10
oldtimer
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Posted 27 November 2001 - 23:21
My impression of DSJ was that he did not have much time for whiners, whether they be drivers, ruling officials, or others seeking what they saw as some public good. He seemed to have thought that it was a driver's responsibility to look after his own safety as much, or as little, as he thought fit. In Jenk's eyes, there was no such thing as a dangerous circuits, only dangerous drivers. That, of course, was how it was in the days he road-raced.
If you want a group of drivers that he was biased against, it was those who did not get on with the job, no matter how fast they were considered to be. He admired those who made his eye-balls tingle, but others, and this includes Prost, left him cold. He admired JYS the driver as he pushed his way onto the racing stage, but he became the 'beady-eyed Scot' later. Draw your own inference about the loss of warmth.
In the 50s, he was a great supporter of British teams, but this disappeared with the arrival of the travelling cigarette packets. He would irritate PR men by insisting on calling a Lotus a Lotus, rather than a John Player Special. IIRC, he was less a fan of kit car constructors than those who built a whole car.
DSJ was a great fan of technology (re the preceeding sentence). I suspect age, lack of health, and being elbowed aside at MotorSport all contributed to his loss of interest. Above all, maybe it was the inability to get past all the PR layers to get at the inside story. He had endured his passion being turned into a circus, but in the later days, he wasn't able to fight back, and the circus had won the day. For him, it was a circus by the middle of the 70s, so it had been a long battle.
If you want a group of drivers that he was biased against, it was those who did not get on with the job, no matter how fast they were considered to be. He admired those who made his eye-balls tingle, but others, and this includes Prost, left him cold. He admired JYS the driver as he pushed his way onto the racing stage, but he became the 'beady-eyed Scot' later. Draw your own inference about the loss of warmth.
In the 50s, he was a great supporter of British teams, but this disappeared with the arrival of the travelling cigarette packets. He would irritate PR men by insisting on calling a Lotus a Lotus, rather than a John Player Special. IIRC, he was less a fan of kit car constructors than those who built a whole car.
DSJ was a great fan of technology (re the preceeding sentence). I suspect age, lack of health, and being elbowed aside at MotorSport all contributed to his loss of interest. Above all, maybe it was the inability to get past all the PR layers to get at the inside story. He had endured his passion being turned into a circus, but in the later days, he wasn't able to fight back, and the circus had won the day. For him, it was a circus by the middle of the 70s, so it had been a long battle.
#11
Barry Lake
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 04:40
Since so many of us obviously respect Denis Jenkinson so much, could somebody please edit the heading for this thread so we don't have to read "Dennis Jenkinson" every day?
In a twist of the old saying, "Say whatever you like about me, just spell my name correctly", what is the point of all this praise if you've spelt his name the wrong way?
Possibly I have told the tale here before, but I first discovered "Jenks" when I saw my first Motor Sport magazine - amazingly the June 1955 issue that had the famous "Mille Miglia with Moss" story in it.
I had to walk to and from school for a week to save the bus fares so I could buy it, and continued to buy Motor Sport every month for as long as DSJ wrote for it.
Even more amazing to me was that more than 20 years later I corresponded with DSJ on historic matters and had letters to the editor from him in a magazine I edited.
Almost exactly 30 years after first realising he existed, I was sitting at a table under an umbrella in the paddock at Spa-Francorchamps circuit, chatting over a coffee with DSJ and Stirling Moss. Fortunately for me, the late Mike Kable was there and took a photo of the occasion. I was about to write that it is one of my most prized possessions, but the reality is that, with my library and photo collections in such disarray at the moment, I am not sure where to find it.
Something that always has puzzled me is that DSJ's series of books "Racing Car Review" from the late 1940s through most of the 1950s have never reached the astronomical prices that many lesser tomes have attained. Anyone interested in GP history who doesn't already have a set should be hunting them down right now. You never know, some day the market might realise their true worth.
In a twist of the old saying, "Say whatever you like about me, just spell my name correctly", what is the point of all this praise if you've spelt his name the wrong way?
Possibly I have told the tale here before, but I first discovered "Jenks" when I saw my first Motor Sport magazine - amazingly the June 1955 issue that had the famous "Mille Miglia with Moss" story in it.
I had to walk to and from school for a week to save the bus fares so I could buy it, and continued to buy Motor Sport every month for as long as DSJ wrote for it.
Even more amazing to me was that more than 20 years later I corresponded with DSJ on historic matters and had letters to the editor from him in a magazine I edited.
Almost exactly 30 years after first realising he existed, I was sitting at a table under an umbrella in the paddock at Spa-Francorchamps circuit, chatting over a coffee with DSJ and Stirling Moss. Fortunately for me, the late Mike Kable was there and took a photo of the occasion. I was about to write that it is one of my most prized possessions, but the reality is that, with my library and photo collections in such disarray at the moment, I am not sure where to find it.
Something that always has puzzled me is that DSJ's series of books "Racing Car Review" from the late 1940s through most of the 1950s have never reached the astronomical prices that many lesser tomes have attained. Anyone interested in GP history who doesn't already have a set should be hunting them down right now. You never know, some day the market might realise their true worth.
#12
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 07:34
Originally posted by oldtimer
In the 50s, he was a great supporter of British teams...
I'm not so sure about that. I can remember reading one of his articles that was particularly scathing about the Lotus team when they were running the 16 in F1. And I don't think he was too impressed with BRM either.
#13
Zawed
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 08:38
Originally posted by Barry Lake
Possibly I have told the tale here before, but I first discovered "Jenks" when I saw my first Motor Sport magazine - amazingly the June 1955 issue that had the famous "Mille Miglia with Moss" story in it.
A few years back, Motorsport magazine re-released that Mille Miglia as a supplement to its magazine. I don't buy Motorsport that much because it is quite expensive, but I got that one, and the supplement makes for great reading. It really opened my eyes to the older forms of motorsport, because until then, I was only interested in F1 circa the 90s. But now, I consider my interest in the sport to be much more broader, thanks to that one piece of writing.
#14
Don Capps
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 14:32
Barry, Done deal.
I had the distinct pleasure of crossing paths quite often with DSJ during the period of the mid-50's to the early-60's and then off-and-on at the USGP and/or Canadian GP until into the '80s I guess. I was able to at least say "Hi!" to him and he would take the time to respond and often stop to chat. As time went on we didn't always agree on things, but just to be able to chat with him from time to time and exchange the odd letter or two was great. I think the last time I saw him was at Watkins Glen in 1980. Or was it 1979? Somewhere along in there. Although I did make the Dallas GP, I didn't see much of anyone.... nor did I look very hard since it was so hot.
Looking at many of my older issues of MotorSport, I sense a lack of enthusiasm becoming very evident in the early '80s when he started calling it "F1" and not "GP" racing. Towards the end, it was evident to the older eyeball that all was not well at MotorSport in regards to the relationship which DSJ had with the magazine. When DSJ jumped ship, that was a real shock to me in some ways, but not in others since I also wondered what took him so long...
Whatever DSJ was, his impact on the English-speaking/reading race fan was immense.
I had the distinct pleasure of crossing paths quite often with DSJ during the period of the mid-50's to the early-60's and then off-and-on at the USGP and/or Canadian GP until into the '80s I guess. I was able to at least say "Hi!" to him and he would take the time to respond and often stop to chat. As time went on we didn't always agree on things, but just to be able to chat with him from time to time and exchange the odd letter or two was great. I think the last time I saw him was at Watkins Glen in 1980. Or was it 1979? Somewhere along in there. Although I did make the Dallas GP, I didn't see much of anyone.... nor did I look very hard since it was so hot.
Looking at many of my older issues of MotorSport, I sense a lack of enthusiasm becoming very evident in the early '80s when he started calling it "F1" and not "GP" racing. Towards the end, it was evident to the older eyeball that all was not well at MotorSport in regards to the relationship which DSJ had with the magazine. When DSJ jumped ship, that was a real shock to me in some ways, but not in others since I also wondered what took him so long...
Whatever DSJ was, his impact on the English-speaking/reading race fan was immense.
#15
Barry Lake
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 14:49
Thanks for the spelling change Don. I feel better now.
It is difficult for me to know exactly how much effect DSJ had on my life, but I do know it was great.
It is difficult for me to know exactly how much effect DSJ had on my life, but I do know it was great.
#16
fines
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 16:17
If you ever find IT again, Barry, please make sure to post it here on TNF!Originally posted by Barry Lake
Almost exactly 30 years after first realising he existed, I was sitting at a table under an umbrella in the paddock at Spa-Francorchamps circuit, chatting over a coffee with DSJ and Stirling Moss. Fortunately for me, the late Mike Kable was there and took a photo of the occasion. I was about to write that it is one of my most prized possessions, but the reality is that, with my library and photo collections in such disarray at the moment, I am not sure where to find it.
#17
oldtimer
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 19:45
Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
I'm not so sure about that. I can remember reading one of his articles that was particularly scathing about the Lotus team when they were running the 16 in F1. And I don't think he was too impressed with BRM either.
DSJ certainly had a harsh pen for British teams when they gave 'mickey mouse' efforts, and both BRM and Lotus were on the receiving end. But he was quite nationalistic when it came to the cars in green, and his account of Tony Brooks win in the 1955 Syracuse GP is a great example.
I think it all comes down to DSJ not suffering half-arsed efforts by anyone in his favourite (and that word doesn't do justice to his passion) sport.
#18
Roger Clark
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Posted 28 November 2001 - 23:41
This is what I posted on the thread "DSJ and German drivers":
Like all of us, Denis Jenkinson had his prejudices, but unlike many he was't afraid to let them show in his writings. We've had some discussion on another thread about his possible antipathy towards Lancia and he certainly didn't approve of anything that changed racing as he understood it.
One thing that has always struck me was his lack of enthusiasm for German and Austrian drivers. There was the famous bet, that he would shave off his beard if Rindt ever won a Grand Prix and even when Rindt started winning races regularly Jenkinson was not over-generous in his praise. He was not a great fan of Lauda and towards the end of his life he admitted that he lost a lot of interest when Senna died adding "Unfortunately, Schumacher does nothing for me". When he was a fan of a driver it was very obvious and he was an admirer of a driver he did not particularly like, tht was clear too. Jackie Stewart is the obvious example.
THe obvious exception to this was Berndt Rosemeyer, his boyhood hero. We can't say that this was a dislike of things German for he was a great admirer of German engineering, particularly Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.
As regards betting his beard on Rindt, there was at least one other occassion on which he bet his beard...
Like all of us, Denis Jenkinson had his prejudices, but unlike many he was't afraid to let them show in his writings. We've had some discussion on another thread about his possible antipathy towards Lancia and he certainly didn't approve of anything that changed racing as he understood it.
One thing that has always struck me was his lack of enthusiasm for German and Austrian drivers. There was the famous bet, that he would shave off his beard if Rindt ever won a Grand Prix and even when Rindt started winning races regularly Jenkinson was not over-generous in his praise. He was not a great fan of Lauda and towards the end of his life he admitted that he lost a lot of interest when Senna died adding "Unfortunately, Schumacher does nothing for me". When he was a fan of a driver it was very obvious and he was an admirer of a driver he did not particularly like, tht was clear too. Jackie Stewart is the obvious example.
THe obvious exception to this was Berndt Rosemeyer, his boyhood hero. We can't say that this was a dislike of things German for he was a great admirer of German engineering, particularly Porsche and Mercedes-Benz.
As regards betting his beard on Rindt, there was at least one other occassion on which he bet his beard...
#19
Bernd
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 01:02
I've never understood Jenks indifferance to Rindt. The man was phenomenal in the lower Formulae and it surely was only a matter of time before his skill translated into Grand Prix results. I can't believe Jenks did not see this, maybe he simply chose not to.
Perhaps Jenks did not like how Rindt would simply switch off and cruise round if things weren't going his way?
At least he kept his bet Roger.
Perhaps Jenks did not like how Rindt would simply switch off and cruise round if things weren't going his way?
At least he kept his bet Roger.
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#20
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 08:48
Originally posted by Roger Clark
As regards betting his beard on Rindt, there was at least one other occassion on which he bet his beard...
That was the time he bet that the Allard Dragster would not get under a certain time. It did better the time but Jenks saved his beard by accepting the challenge to drive the machine, almost equalling the time.
#21
magic
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 09:50
We still did not use seat harness, preferring to be able to escape in mid-air if the need arose, rather than stay with the accident. In the proposed SLR coupe that we were going to use in the Pan-American Mexico race at the end of 1955, we were opting for full harness, as there was no easy way out of the gull-wing coupe.
---------
jenks
---------
jenks
#22
Vitesse2
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 14:30
I had been saving this as a Christmas present to you all , but as DSJ has been brought up now, I thought I'd post it here. The following letter was published in the November 1939 issue of Motor Sport - although quite long, it repays reading again and again. I think we can all probably identify with the sentiments expressed in what is probably the first published work by DSJ (unless someone knows better! )
Sir,
Having just received your October issue, I should first like to say thank you for "carrying on". I see that you would like to hear from readers, so having been a regular reader for five years, here you are. It probably will not interest anyone but will fill up the odd corner.
Whilst at school in 1934 at the age of fourteen, a classmate of mine told me a number of interesting insights about a sport, of which I had heard but knew little, namely motor racing, or as I now know it, "The Sport". My enthusiasm soon grew and I began to buy motoring papers. The following year I had given to me Barre Lyndon's book "Grand Prix", this really fired my enthusiasm, and I was soon reading every book and paper on motor-racing I could lay my hands on. At that time the nearest venue was Brooklands, but unfortunately the cost to attend a meeting was more than I ever possessed and I had no friends with cars, who were interested enough to transport me there, so my motor-racing had to come from reports in the journals.
In 1936 I saw a racing car "in the flesh" or should I say "in the metal" for the first time, that was an ERA at the Schoolboys' Exhibition. Later in the year, whilst staying at Brighton, I found that the Lewes Speed Trials were quite near, so off I went to find the venue. It was there that I first saw racing-cars in action, what a thrill! There was a "works" sv Austin, Hadley up, MG's, Alta's, Bugatti's, the Vauxhall Villiers and that marvellous piece of machinery, Fuzzi. After that meeting I thought something must be done.
Nineteen hundred and thirty-seven, what luck! The Crystal Palace circuit was opening almost on my doorstep, no need to worry about transport. At that opening meeting I think I must have been one of the first to go through the turnstiles and I am sure the last to come out. Since then I haven't missed a RRC fixture. During that year and 1938 I found a means of attending some other meetings, that was the bicycle, for as I had now gone to a Technical College my funds would not allow a powered means of transport. Nineteen hundred and thirty-seven saw me attending at Lewes, Brighton, and one or two practises at Brooklands. Race day still being a little beyond my pocket. At last! August Bank Holiday 1938 I was able to attend a Brooklands meeting, and since then the track has been like home to me. The next question was Donington, 130 odd miles away! The Donington GP was my objective and fortunately, due to the Germans coming over, I was able to persuade some friends with a car, that it really was worth while going, on which point we all heartily agreed afterwards, even though Hitler nearly messed things up.
At the beginning of this year opportunity knocked loudly at my door and I wasted no time in opening it. The opportunity was given to me by Motor Sport in the February issue, when they published a letter from a reader, asking for someone to help with his racing car at meetings and such like. I offered my assistance and was accepted and I can honestly say I have had an interesting and enjoyable time, consisting of doing a spot of work at a racing car works, working on a pukka racing car, and attending a meeting in one of the fastest road cars in Great Britain, plus an hundred and one interesting and enjoyable jobs, here I should like to thank both Motor Sport and the reader in question. Through the same source I have been able to attend Shelsley and Prescott and numerous other speed trials such as Poole and Wetherby, all of which had been out of my reach, and of course Brooklands meetings, not behind the fence, but right out in front, all things of which I had dreamed of way back in 1934, and if this ------ war had'nt started I could have looked forward to another Prescott, Shelsley and Donington, and especially the runs to and from, which are always certain to be enjoyable, so the sooner we get back to normal, I for one will shout for joy.
I should just like to add another "thank you" for carrying on and if your staff can find enough interest in 200 miles a month to write "General Notes", everything in the garden will be lovely.
Hoping I haven't bored you too much.
I am, Yours etc
Denis S Jenkinson
London SE23
[As we have so often preached, it pays to cultivate youthful enthusiasm - Ed]
, but as DSJ has been brought up now, I thought I'd post it here. The following letter was published in the November 1939 issue of Motor Sport - although quite long, it repays reading again and again. I think we can all probably identify with the sentiments expressed in what is probably the first published work by DSJ (unless someone knows better! )Sir,
Having just received your October issue, I should first like to say thank you for "carrying on". I see that you would like to hear from readers, so having been a regular reader for five years, here you are. It probably will not interest anyone but will fill up the odd corner.
Whilst at school in 1934 at the age of fourteen, a classmate of mine told me a number of interesting insights about a sport, of which I had heard but knew little, namely motor racing, or as I now know it, "The Sport". My enthusiasm soon grew and I began to buy motoring papers. The following year I had given to me Barre Lyndon's book "Grand Prix", this really fired my enthusiasm, and I was soon reading every book and paper on motor-racing I could lay my hands on. At that time the nearest venue was Brooklands, but unfortunately the cost to attend a meeting was more than I ever possessed and I had no friends with cars, who were interested enough to transport me there, so my motor-racing had to come from reports in the journals.
In 1936 I saw a racing car "in the flesh" or should I say "in the metal" for the first time, that was an ERA at the Schoolboys' Exhibition. Later in the year, whilst staying at Brighton, I found that the Lewes Speed Trials were quite near, so off I went to find the venue. It was there that I first saw racing-cars in action, what a thrill! There was a "works" sv Austin, Hadley up, MG's, Alta's, Bugatti's, the Vauxhall Villiers and that marvellous piece of machinery, Fuzzi. After that meeting I thought something must be done.
Nineteen hundred and thirty-seven, what luck! The Crystal Palace circuit was opening almost on my doorstep, no need to worry about transport. At that opening meeting I think I must have been one of the first to go through the turnstiles and I am sure the last to come out. Since then I haven't missed a RRC fixture. During that year and 1938 I found a means of attending some other meetings, that was the bicycle, for as I had now gone to a Technical College my funds would not allow a powered means of transport. Nineteen hundred and thirty-seven saw me attending at Lewes, Brighton, and one or two practises at Brooklands. Race day still being a little beyond my pocket. At last! August Bank Holiday 1938 I was able to attend a Brooklands meeting, and since then the track has been like home to me. The next question was Donington, 130 odd miles away! The Donington GP was my objective and fortunately, due to the Germans coming over, I was able to persuade some friends with a car, that it really was worth while going, on which point we all heartily agreed afterwards, even though Hitler nearly messed things up.
At the beginning of this year opportunity knocked loudly at my door and I wasted no time in opening it. The opportunity was given to me by Motor Sport in the February issue, when they published a letter from a reader, asking for someone to help with his racing car at meetings and such like. I offered my assistance and was accepted and I can honestly say I have had an interesting and enjoyable time, consisting of doing a spot of work at a racing car works, working on a pukka racing car, and attending a meeting in one of the fastest road cars in Great Britain, plus an hundred and one interesting and enjoyable jobs, here I should like to thank both Motor Sport and the reader in question. Through the same source I have been able to attend Shelsley and Prescott and numerous other speed trials such as Poole and Wetherby, all of which had been out of my reach, and of course Brooklands meetings, not behind the fence, but right out in front, all things of which I had dreamed of way back in 1934, and if this ------ war had'nt started I could have looked forward to another Prescott, Shelsley and Donington, and especially the runs to and from, which are always certain to be enjoyable, so the sooner we get back to normal, I for one will shout for joy.
I should just like to add another "thank you" for carrying on and if your staff can find enough interest in 200 miles a month to write "General Notes", everything in the garden will be lovely.
Hoping I haven't bored you too much.
I am, Yours etc
Denis S Jenkinson
London SE23
[As we have so often preached, it pays to cultivate youthful enthusiasm - Ed]
#23
Rob29
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 15:52
I remember the TV play mentioned.Just amazed that it was 33 yrs ago! We only had black & white TV in those days.I seem to remember I thought it a pretty poor production at the time-shot entirely in the studio. I doubt that it still exists in BBC archives,as they have managed to loose Dr.Who from that period.
#24
oldtimer
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 23:54
Thank you Vitesse for the early Christmas present!
Rindt was not the only driver to be dismissed in the early stage of his career by Jenks. Another was Mansell, who, IIRC, was given a rating of a good #2 driver before he started winning GPs.
I can't recollect DSJ giving reasons for these under-estimations. Bernd's comment about the switching off and cruising around, which applied to both Mansell and Rindt, is probably near the mark.
Rindt was not the only driver to be dismissed in the early stage of his career by Jenks. Another was Mansell, who, IIRC, was given a rating of a good #2 driver before he started winning GPs.
I can't recollect DSJ giving reasons for these under-estimations. Bernd's comment about the switching off and cruising around, which applied to both Mansell and Rindt, is probably near the mark.
Thanx!
#26
jcbc3
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 19:10
I have always admired what I have read of DSJ. And thought it a travesty that his 'minute of noise' was cancelled. But being Danish and a generation late I'm not too familiar with him. And now i read this sentence in the latest Car magazine:
"In 1955 Stirling Moss won the Mille Miglia accompanied by Denis jenkinson whose right-wing views and even more alarming personal hygiene might have caused him to be ostracised from polite society had he not been such a good writer..."
I don't care about the thing about his hygiene but what right-wing views and is anything by his hand published to substantiate the claim that he was beyond polite society in this regard?
"In 1955 Stirling Moss won the Mille Miglia accompanied by Denis jenkinson whose right-wing views and even more alarming personal hygiene might have caused him to be ostracised from polite society had he not been such a good writer..."
I don't care about the thing about his hygiene but what right-wing views and is anything by his hand published to substantiate the claim that he was beyond polite society in this regard?
#28
David Beard
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 20:15
So glad this thread has been unearthed.
Motor Sport magazine was DSJ. Dad bought the mag when I was a kid. My reading skills at the age of 6 were developed by reading Broons annuals (sent at Christmas by a Scottish ex POW mate of dad's) and the captions of photos in the "Pictorial Review" in the middle of Motor Sport. Gradually I moved deeper into the mag until Continental Notes became the first thing I pounced upon when MS arrived.
In the eighties I went to a packed lecture, given by DSJ to the Institute of Mechanical Engineers ( I think ) at Rolls Royce, Crewe. He was struggling with his hearing, by then. He made a big point about the mysterious eye watering fuels being used in the turbo F1 era. Great evening, first time I had actually clapped eyes upon the great little icon.
In recent years I have been doing what I like to think is some fairly serious research. If I had started a few years earlier, I would have an excuse to contact a man I have admired since I was a lad. Annoys me no end. :
Motor Sport magazine was DSJ. Dad bought the mag when I was a kid. My reading skills at the age of 6 were developed by reading Broons annuals (sent at Christmas by a Scottish ex POW mate of dad's) and the captions of photos in the "Pictorial Review" in the middle of Motor Sport. Gradually I moved deeper into the mag until Continental Notes became the first thing I pounced upon when MS arrived.
In the eighties I went to a packed lecture, given by DSJ to the Institute of Mechanical Engineers ( I think ) at Rolls Royce, Crewe. He was struggling with his hearing, by then. He made a big point about the mysterious eye watering fuels being used in the turbo F1 era. Great evening, first time I had actually clapped eyes upon the great little icon.
In recent years I have been doing what I like to think is some fairly serious research. If I had started a few years earlier, I would have an excuse to contact a man I have admired since I was a lad. Annoys me no end. :
#29
Allen Brown
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 20:22
Means nothing to me. Perhaps Doug, who I recall once referring to Jenks as the gnome that lived at the bottom of his garden, could tell us a little.Originally posted by jcbc3
... Denis jenkinson whose right-wing views and even more alarming personal hygiene might have caused him to be ostracised from polite society had he not been such a good writer...
Allen
#30
Tomas Karlsson
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 20:25
As a Swede I have noticed that Denis Jenkinson wasn't a fan of Jo Bonnier. But I haven't been able to figure out why. It obviously got worse when GPDA was involved in banning Spa and Nürburgring, but DSJ seldom had anything positive to say about Bonnier before that. BTW, it isn't easy to find anything positive about Bonnier in British books or magazines. Is there anyone who has a good explanation?
#31
FLB
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 21:51
I recently bought a compilation of magazine articles (by Brooklands Books) about the Targa Florio. Included are some of DSJ's reports. Unfortunately I don't have it with me right now, but he makes his view of the 'Mon Ami Mates' absolutely clear in the 1957 report, something to the issue of 'The British element of the Scuderia thought it not important to make an effort...' or something like that... 
In any case, nothing that you could possibly read in one of the mags nowadays.
In any case, nothing that you could possibly read in one of the mags nowadays.
#32
petefenelon
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:02
Jenks 'right-wing'? - nothing I've ever read by or about him suggests that (unlike, say, certain current contributors to Autosport who've never felt the need to hide their politics, or even WB who comes across as a classic moderate Tory...) he cared at all about politics!
Put it this way, if Jenks had "unpleasant Right-wing views", he'd be unlikely to be a great friend of Sir Stirling Moss, given his ancestry, would he?
And a couple of quotes....
"But Jenks' extremely strong character also emerged in 1940 as he refused absolutely to inflict harm on another human being "just because some politician says so" and ... DSJ registered as a conscientious objector." (DCN, in "Jenks: A Passion For Motor Sport, p196).
"Although I didn't know he was formally a conscientious objector, he was just totally apolitical and loudly disagreed with the need for all this conflict" - op. cit, p.197 - DCN quoting Jenks' friend Bob Newton.
I'd be intrigued to see evidence to the contrary... is this merely based around Jenks' engineering admiration for German products?
As for personal hygiene - well we've all seen descriptions of his house. And his socks. When he had them.;)
Put it this way, if Jenks had "unpleasant Right-wing views", he'd be unlikely to be a great friend of Sir Stirling Moss, given his ancestry, would he?
And a couple of quotes....
"But Jenks' extremely strong character also emerged in 1940 as he refused absolutely to inflict harm on another human being "just because some politician says so" and ... DSJ registered as a conscientious objector." (DCN, in "Jenks: A Passion For Motor Sport, p196).
"Although I didn't know he was formally a conscientious objector, he was just totally apolitical and loudly disagreed with the need for all this conflict" - op. cit, p.197 - DCN quoting Jenks' friend Bob Newton.
I'd be intrigued to see evidence to the contrary... is this merely based around Jenks' engineering admiration for German products?
As for personal hygiene - well we've all seen descriptions of his house. And his socks. When he had them.;)
#33
Doug Nye
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:02
Just at the mo I'm feeling rather 'Jenksed out' because we are doing a lot of work involving him.
But I welcome this thread because the often irritating little bugger was very much my mentor, and mentor also to an entire generation of fine people who I believe do credit to his memory - including in alphabetical order Maurice Hamilton, Alan Henry, Andrew Marriott, Nigel Roebuck, Simon Taylor and really so many more...
If he thought you were a kindred spirit he was fantastically generous and open in his help for much younger enthusiasts. He was very much an honorary uncle to my two kids - as to many others - and once they were old enough to do interesting things he was great to them, and they thought the world of him.
His self-written obituary perhaps sums him up best:
"Born in 1920, Denis Jenkinson died at xx years of age. He had planned to live to 100 years, a nice tidy number, but his luck ran out.
"Anyone who did not know Jenks, or at least know of him, is of no importance or significance in the Motort Sporting world, which was his world for all but 10 years of his very active life with cars, motor cycles and aeroplanes. A product of the 20th century, he enjoyed and wondered at it all his life."
It's all there. You see the streak of vanity, a dash of pomposity, a touch of dismissiveness for those of whom he did not approve, a tidy mind, in many ways a schoolboy personality, a passion for his interests, total commitment to them, and a lifelong capacity to enquire, and to admire, and to wonder at the works of his fellow man...
John Fitch described him as "the mediaeval man" because Jenks never regarded safety as being anything other than an excuse for lack of daring, suppression of the human spirit. Competition motoring was his entire world. He detested politics and politicians, and World War 2 to him was merely a pestiferous "...fuss between politicians which postponed what should have been some great years of racing".
He was in my experience utterly fearless. He was totally incorruptible. He was fiercely intelligent, deep thinking and analytical and derived intense joy from creating an alternative personal reading of almost any incident one could choose. At his height he was usually absolutely correct, justified, penetratingly accurate. At his worst he would vent often unreasonable personal distaste or dislike, but once vented it would seldom last long. He would never apologise. He would hardly ever admit error. He would gleefully point out and celebrate error in others.
His real heroes - the men he would most like to have been - were:
a) Rudi Uhlenhaut, engineer, designer, a development driver capable of embarrassing his works drivers with comparable lap times, a kindred spirit - and:
b) Piero Taruffi, ferociously independent motor cycle and motor racer, engineer, team chief, designer, racer, record breaker...and Mille Miglia winner.
Drivers he really rated included Rosemeyer, Wimille, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart (with the caveats expressed above), Lauda (for much of his career, especially when the British press took a dislike to him, so Jenks's contrariness sent him the other way), Villeneuve (up to a point), Jones, Rosberg (but for his loud mouth) and then Senna - who, in what was really Jenks's dotage, was adored in a manner approaching an almost schoolboy crush.
He began to lose interest when Grand Prix drivers began eating muesli and playing tennis. He wanted their pursuits to be ones of interest and daring. Eating "birdseed" and playing "woolly-ball" were neither.
His independence meant he never married - though nearly all his life he was attracted particularly to other blokes' wives and for long periods succeeded with them in rather more practical terms, especially with two of same - and he never either understood nor fell foul of the basic requirement to support a family which compromised many of his pupils' later work (very much including mine) when earning a living became first priority, producing work of merit secondary... (yes, OK, that IS an admission common to many of us).
He lived hard and rough, he was tough as old boots, he was never coarse, he used what might be described as 'bad language' in its place, particularly for its richness and emphasis, he was never less than civilised in his general demeanour and behaviour, and what has been quoted above from 'Car' magazine he would describe (as would I) as being "complete bollocks".
Like all great men he was flawed.
But believe me - us - here was a truly Great Man. It was a never less than entertaining privilege to know him. Flaw to flaw...
Sorry to ramble on.
DCN
PS - Barry is quite right about his 'Racing Car Review' books 1947-1958. They are gems. On ebay at the mo there are some priced around $5 from Australia, and £15 from the UK!
PPS - Tomas - Jo Bonnier was regarded as being remote, cold, aloof, snobbish - a racing motorist as opposed to being a Racing Driver, and one long past his sell-by date, running his car, combing his hair, posing for the photographers... Jenks neither recognised nor understood the role which JoBo played of being the drivers' multi-lingual, often diplomatic, interface with worldwide race promoters. He would not have objected to that, but for Bonnier insisting on appearing in the races still...
PPPS - Bernd - Jochen was perhaps the first leading Formula 1 driver since the earliest 1950s to appear upon the scene without a clue who DSJ was, nor caring. He dressed "weirdly", he was extremely abrupt in his manner and could be coarse and rude in his language and he showed neither respect, nor understanding nor interest in the little bloke with the beard. Jenks could have absorbed all of that, but for Rindt's lack of Formula 1 success. 49 GPs into his career, DSJ took great delight in being dismissive of a talent with whom everybody else seemed entranced.
P-etc - Oldtimer - Jenks's outlook was never so far as I know 'nationalistic' in the modern sense of that word. By contemporary standards he was peerlessly Internationalist - he had lived and worked in Belgium from choice in the late 1940s-early 1950s - he was violently critical of 'Little Englanders', and hugely receptive of German management and engineering regardless of recent history...which in the '50s was rare on this island. But he was ecstatic at living in an era in which his friends' teams and cars progressed to pre-eminence. At one stage he had lived with Connaught MD Geofffrey Clarke and his wife, he recognised the towering mixture of supreme talent, humility and modesty in young Tony Brooks, and when their car took Maserati's trousers down at Syracuse his writing was more partisan (for his chums) than 'nationalistic'. He was seeing the dawn of a new age...and he lived to see it through.
But I welcome this thread because the often irritating little bugger was very much my mentor, and mentor also to an entire generation of fine people who I believe do credit to his memory - including in alphabetical order Maurice Hamilton, Alan Henry, Andrew Marriott, Nigel Roebuck, Simon Taylor and really so many more...
If he thought you were a kindred spirit he was fantastically generous and open in his help for much younger enthusiasts. He was very much an honorary uncle to my two kids - as to many others - and once they were old enough to do interesting things he was great to them, and they thought the world of him.
His self-written obituary perhaps sums him up best:
"Born in 1920, Denis Jenkinson died at xx years of age. He had planned to live to 100 years, a nice tidy number, but his luck ran out.
"Anyone who did not know Jenks, or at least know of him, is of no importance or significance in the Motort Sporting world, which was his world for all but 10 years of his very active life with cars, motor cycles and aeroplanes. A product of the 20th century, he enjoyed and wondered at it all his life."
It's all there. You see the streak of vanity, a dash of pomposity, a touch of dismissiveness for those of whom he did not approve, a tidy mind, in many ways a schoolboy personality, a passion for his interests, total commitment to them, and a lifelong capacity to enquire, and to admire, and to wonder at the works of his fellow man...
John Fitch described him as "the mediaeval man" because Jenks never regarded safety as being anything other than an excuse for lack of daring, suppression of the human spirit. Competition motoring was his entire world. He detested politics and politicians, and World War 2 to him was merely a pestiferous "...fuss between politicians which postponed what should have been some great years of racing".
He was in my experience utterly fearless. He was totally incorruptible. He was fiercely intelligent, deep thinking and analytical and derived intense joy from creating an alternative personal reading of almost any incident one could choose. At his height he was usually absolutely correct, justified, penetratingly accurate. At his worst he would vent often unreasonable personal distaste or dislike, but once vented it would seldom last long. He would never apologise. He would hardly ever admit error. He would gleefully point out and celebrate error in others.
His real heroes - the men he would most like to have been - were:
a) Rudi Uhlenhaut, engineer, designer, a development driver capable of embarrassing his works drivers with comparable lap times, a kindred spirit - and:
b) Piero Taruffi, ferociously independent motor cycle and motor racer, engineer, team chief, designer, racer, record breaker...and Mille Miglia winner.
Drivers he really rated included Rosemeyer, Wimille, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart (with the caveats expressed above), Lauda (for much of his career, especially when the British press took a dislike to him, so Jenks's contrariness sent him the other way), Villeneuve (up to a point), Jones, Rosberg (but for his loud mouth) and then Senna - who, in what was really Jenks's dotage, was adored in a manner approaching an almost schoolboy crush.
He began to lose interest when Grand Prix drivers began eating muesli and playing tennis. He wanted their pursuits to be ones of interest and daring. Eating "birdseed" and playing "woolly-ball" were neither.
His independence meant he never married - though nearly all his life he was attracted particularly to other blokes' wives and for long periods succeeded with them in rather more practical terms, especially with two of same - and he never either understood nor fell foul of the basic requirement to support a family which compromised many of his pupils' later work (very much including mine) when earning a living became first priority, producing work of merit secondary... (yes, OK, that IS an admission common to many of us).
He lived hard and rough, he was tough as old boots, he was never coarse, he used what might be described as 'bad language' in its place, particularly for its richness and emphasis, he was never less than civilised in his general demeanour and behaviour, and what has been quoted above from 'Car' magazine he would describe (as would I) as being "complete bollocks".
Like all great men he was flawed.
But believe me - us - here was a truly Great Man. It was a never less than entertaining privilege to know him. Flaw to flaw...
Sorry to ramble on.
DCN
PS - Barry is quite right about his 'Racing Car Review' books 1947-1958. They are gems. On ebay at the mo there are some priced around $5 from Australia, and £15 from the UK!
PPS - Tomas - Jo Bonnier was regarded as being remote, cold, aloof, snobbish - a racing motorist as opposed to being a Racing Driver, and one long past his sell-by date, running his car, combing his hair, posing for the photographers... Jenks neither recognised nor understood the role which JoBo played of being the drivers' multi-lingual, often diplomatic, interface with worldwide race promoters. He would not have objected to that, but for Bonnier insisting on appearing in the races still...
PPPS - Bernd - Jochen was perhaps the first leading Formula 1 driver since the earliest 1950s to appear upon the scene without a clue who DSJ was, nor caring. He dressed "weirdly", he was extremely abrupt in his manner and could be coarse and rude in his language and he showed neither respect, nor understanding nor interest in the little bloke with the beard. Jenks could have absorbed all of that, but for Rindt's lack of Formula 1 success. 49 GPs into his career, DSJ took great delight in being dismissive of a talent with whom everybody else seemed entranced.
P-etc - Oldtimer - Jenks's outlook was never so far as I know 'nationalistic' in the modern sense of that word. By contemporary standards he was peerlessly Internationalist - he had lived and worked in Belgium from choice in the late 1940s-early 1950s - he was violently critical of 'Little Englanders', and hugely receptive of German management and engineering regardless of recent history...which in the '50s was rare on this island. But he was ecstatic at living in an era in which his friends' teams and cars progressed to pre-eminence. At one stage he had lived with Connaught MD Geofffrey Clarke and his wife, he recognised the towering mixture of supreme talent, humility and modesty in young Tony Brooks, and when their car took Maserati's trousers down at Syracuse his writing was more partisan (for his chums) than 'nationalistic'. He was seeing the dawn of a new age...and he lived to see it through.
#34
petefenelon
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:09
Jenks 'right-wing'? - nothing I've ever read by or about him suggests that (unlike, say, certain current contributors to Autosport who've never felt the need to hide their politics, or even WB who comes across as a classic moderate Tory...) he cared at all about politics!
Put it this way, if Jenks had "unpleasant Right-wing views", he'd be unlikely to be a great friend of Sir Stirling Moss, given his ancestry, would he?
And a couple of quotes....
"But Jenks' extremely strong character also emerged in 1940 as he refused absolutely to inflict harm on another human being "just because some politician says so" and ... DSJ registered as a conscientious objector." (DCN, in "Jenks: A Passion For Motor Sport, p196).
"Although I didn't know he was formally a conscientious objector, he was just totally apolitical and loudly disagreed with the need for all this conflict" - op. cit, p.197 - DCN quoting Jenks' friend Bob Newton.
I'd be intrigued to see evidence to the contrary... is this merely based around Jenks' engineering admiration for German products?
As for personal hygiene - well we've all seen descriptions of his house. And his socks. When he had them.;)
Put it this way, if Jenks had "unpleasant Right-wing views", he'd be unlikely to be a great friend of Sir Stirling Moss, given his ancestry, would he?
And a couple of quotes....
"But Jenks' extremely strong character also emerged in 1940 as he refused absolutely to inflict harm on another human being "just because some politician says so" and ... DSJ registered as a conscientious objector." (DCN, in "Jenks: A Passion For Motor Sport, p196).
"Although I didn't know he was formally a conscientious objector, he was just totally apolitical and loudly disagreed with the need for all this conflict" - op. cit, p.197 - DCN quoting Jenks' friend Bob Newton.
I'd be intrigued to see evidence to the contrary... is this merely based around Jenks' engineering admiration for German products?
As for personal hygiene - well we've all seen descriptions of his house. And his socks. When he had them.;)
#35
Gary C
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:10
blimey lads, keep calm there !! LOL
#36
Doug Nye
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:18
DSJ - Right-wing...? Bollocks again. If anything he was an anarchist, but an anarchist with very precise principles and above all a sense of respect for his fellow man...or at least, some of them, Racers...
DCN
DCN
#37
petefenelon
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:25
Originally posted by Doug Nye
Oh dear - v. sorry for repetition above
Sorry pardon.
DCN
Same thing happened to me - I suspect Atlas itself threw a wobbly at the absurdity of tagging Jenks with a political label ;)
(Were I trying to be literary, I could say "Atlas Shrugged", but that was an unpleasantly right-wing book ;))
#38
Doug Nye
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Posted 16 March 2005 - 23:27
Twinny - DELETE doesn't work. Could you oblige? In fact delete the lot if it's all tosh anyway...
#39
Option1
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Posted 17 March 2005 - 00:11
Can't see that ever being classed as "tosh" Doug. In fact, it's the most illuminating piece I've seen written on the man. Nicely done!
Neil
Neil
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#40
Tim Murray
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Posted 17 March 2005 - 00:22
Don't you dare!! Doug's excellent post about DSJ reminded me that our motor club somehow persuaded him to come and give us a talk in October 1985. The place was packed to the gunwales, and he gave us a most entertaining evening. On being asked the inevitable question of best-ever driver, he refused to comment on anyone that he hadn't personally seen in action. Of those that he had seen, he nominated as his top three Moss, Clark and Villeneuve (who he called 'Gillies' with a hard G). His comments on Mansell were unprintable, so it was slightly ironic that a few days after his talk Noige went and won his first Grand Prix.Originally posted by Doug Nye
In fact delete the lot if it's all tosh anyway...
#41
Ray Bell
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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:53
Originally posted by jcbc3
I have always admired what I have read of DSJ. And thought it a travesty that his 'minute of noise' was cancelled. But being Danish and a generation late I'm not too familiar with him. And now i read this sentence in the latest Car magazine:
"In 1955 Stirling Moss won the Mille Miglia accompanied by Denis jenkinson whose right-wing views and even more alarming personal hygiene might have caused him to be ostracised from polite society had he not been such a good writer..."
I don't know if you've read Jenks' report on this event, but it's readily available if you haven't... and mandatory reading for any genuine enthusiast of the sport that was.
But there's the other kind of good reading he produced:
http://forums.atlasf...s=&postid=17917
Thanks once again to Eric McLoughlin...
#42
Tomas Karlsson
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Posted 17 March 2005 - 07:49
PPS - Tomas - Jo Bonnier was regarded as being remote, cold, aloof, snobbish - a racing motorist as opposed to being a Racing Driver, and one long past his sell-by date, running his car, combing his hair, posing for the photographers... Jenks neither recognised nor understood the role which JoBo played of being the drivers' multi-lingual, often diplomatic, interface with worlwide race promoters. He would not have objected to that, but for Bonnier insisting on appearing in the races still...
Yes Doug, this is about as far as I have reached in finding an answer to my question. But he wasn't past his sell-by date all his career was he? In 1960 he was regarded as one of the stronger candidates for the -61 WC(that was before Ferrari had presented their car). And Bonnier took over as president in the GPDA from Moss!?!
I know that the step from hero to zero is a short one (I remember when Ronnie Peterson drove for Tyrrell....). And Bonnier wasn't popular in Sweden either, but it's strange to read DSJ's articels when he mentions JoBo. He can't seem to hide that he really dislikes the guy.
#43
Ruairidh
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Posted 17 March 2005 - 19:57
Wot a great thread
............. I love this place when it produces stuff like this.
............. I love this place when it produces stuff like this.
#44
Macca
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 09:36
Regarding JoBo, there are three anecdotes from racing autobiographies/reminiscences that spring to mind:
Roy Salvadori said how, when they were driving Down Under in 1960 or 1961, Jo suggested they fix a race to avoid wearing out the cars, since they were the class of the field...........with Jo as winner! But when it was suggested that they let Denny Hulme keep up in another race to generate local interest and give the punters a good race with a local driver getting a publicity boost, Jo said "No, we're professional drivers and we mustn't let a young driver appear to beat us" or words to that effect...............so Roy told Jo he had to race for it, and Jo crashed when he appeared to out-brake himself, and then blamed it on faulty brakes..............
In Rob Walker's book, a letter from Jo is reproduced, to Rob after a poor season as Rob's driver, hoping for a better one.............filled with flattery about Rob's home. And when Rob said he was only running one 3-litre car in 1966, Jo assumed he was the man and said "What are you going to do with Siffert", to which Rob replied, in what was a surprisingly blunt way for such a gentleman, "I'm going to have him drive my car."
Brian Redman wrote about the European 2-litre decider at Spa between himself in the Chevron and Jo in a Lola; how Jo slipstreamed past on the way up to Blanchimont and moved over before he was fully past, to make Brian back off "because that was what Jo always did".
So maybe there was a feeling that, for all his talk about safety, etc., there was a waft of BS............
Paul M
Roy Salvadori said how, when they were driving Down Under in 1960 or 1961, Jo suggested they fix a race to avoid wearing out the cars, since they were the class of the field...........with Jo as winner! But when it was suggested that they let Denny Hulme keep up in another race to generate local interest and give the punters a good race with a local driver getting a publicity boost, Jo said "No, we're professional drivers and we mustn't let a young driver appear to beat us" or words to that effect...............so Roy told Jo he had to race for it, and Jo crashed when he appeared to out-brake himself, and then blamed it on faulty brakes..............
In Rob Walker's book, a letter from Jo is reproduced, to Rob after a poor season as Rob's driver, hoping for a better one.............filled with flattery about Rob's home. And when Rob said he was only running one 3-litre car in 1966, Jo assumed he was the man and said "What are you going to do with Siffert", to which Rob replied, in what was a surprisingly blunt way for such a gentleman, "I'm going to have him drive my car."
Brian Redman wrote about the European 2-litre decider at Spa between himself in the Chevron and Jo in a Lola; how Jo slipstreamed past on the way up to Blanchimont and moved over before he was fully past, to make Brian back off "because that was what Jo always did".
So maybe there was a feeling that, for all his talk about safety, etc., there was a waft of BS............
Paul M
#45
jcbc3
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 10:12
Originally posted by jcbc3 .....is anything by his hand published to substantiate the claim............ ? [/B]
So the conclusion here is that NOTHING have been published by DSJ to suggest extreme right wing views?
And if so, who should write a stern letter to Car Magazine to ask them either to retract their slur or substantiate their claim?
#46
ian senior
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 10:13
Absoutely marvellous thread, the kind of thing that TNF and its members does so well. And what is even better, Doug is posting again.
#47
john aston
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 12:39
Met the great man once- practice for Euro GP Donington. Smalll beardy bloke appeared on a rusty Moulton pushbike at Craner Curves. No reaction from spectators but I knew who he was and introduced myself ,thanked him for all the stuff he'd written over the years and discussed the merits of Donington. He felt v micky mouse - not a term I would use about Craner at 160 or whatever silly speed they were doing. I'd had a Jim Russell day there the week before and my 80 something had felt more than enough .
Jenks was not a great writer - too matter of fact for that - but he was a very good one.But most of all he was an Enthusiast .
Jenks was not a great writer - too matter of fact for that - but he was a very good one.But most of all he was an Enthusiast .
#48
petefenelon
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 13:06
Originally posted by john aston
Jenks was not a great writer - too matter of fact for that - but he was a very good one.But most of all he was an Enthusiast .
Actually, I think Jenks achieved a very interesting "conversational" style, which he took to extremes in the one Spa report that he presented as stream-of-consciousness.
If I want literature, I read literature - if I want to know what it felt like to be at a particular event, what I want is reportage, ideally by someone intimately involved with the story. Jenks delivered precisely that. Lesser writers can tell me the facts; Jenks could tell us why, and make us feel like we were there.
It always amuses me when I see discussion of what the Americans called "New Journalism" in the sixties, where the journalist is a true participant in the story and records it not just from a factual but from a personal perspective - writers I admire such as Tom Wolfe, Hunter S Thompson, George Plimpton, the young Vietnam reporters such as David Halberstam, Peter Arnett, Neil Sheehan etc.
Jenks was out there "living the story" a decade or so before them...
#49
SEdward
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 13:19
I may be shot down in flames, but...
Just how good was Jenkinson? Was he the best, or simply the first? Well, I know he wasn't the first, but he may have been alone in pedalling his trade in English at a given time in the history of the sport. Was he talented, or simply knowledgeable?
In agreement with one of the preceding posts, I have always found his writing to be quite dispassionate. Factually accurate no doubt, but I have always found that his work lacked sparkle and zest.
Donaldson on Hunt or Villeneuve, or some of Roebuck's earlier contributions could make me laugh or cry. I never felt this reading Jenkinson's work.
I can already hear the glasses of cognac dropping from unbelieving hands in the wood paneled drawing rooms...
I will now run away and hide.
Edward the iconoclast
Just how good was Jenkinson? Was he the best, or simply the first? Well, I know he wasn't the first, but he may have been alone in pedalling his trade in English at a given time in the history of the sport. Was he talented, or simply knowledgeable?
In agreement with one of the preceding posts, I have always found his writing to be quite dispassionate. Factually accurate no doubt, but I have always found that his work lacked sparkle and zest.
Donaldson on Hunt or Villeneuve, or some of Roebuck's earlier contributions could make me laugh or cry. I never felt this reading Jenkinson's work.
I can already hear the glasses of cognac dropping from unbelieving hands in the wood paneled drawing rooms...
I will now run away and hide.
Edward the iconoclast
#50
petefenelon
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Posted 18 March 2005 - 14:07
Originally posted by SEdward
I may be shot down in flames, but...
Just how good was Jenkinson? Was he the best, or simply the first? Well, I know he wasn't the first, but he may have been alone in pedalling his trade in English at a given time in the history of the sport. Was he talented, or simply knowledgeable?
In agreement with one of the preceding posts, I have always found his writing to be quite dispassionate. Factually accurate no doubt, but I have always found that his work lacked sparkle and zest.
Donaldson on Hunt or Villeneuve, or some of Roebuck's earlier contributions could make me laugh or cry. I never felt this reading Jenkinson's work.
I can already hear the glasses of cognac dropping from unbelieving hands in the wood paneled drawing rooms...
I will now run away and hide.
Edward the iconoclast
Best? Jenks, Manney, Lyons, Rob Walker, Innes Ireland, Roebuck when he didn't actively loathe the sport he was covering, Adam Cooper and Mark Hughes; there's a continuum of excellent motorsport journalists (I'm talking magazine journalism here, not books) who not only cover the story but put a bit of heart and style into a piece.
But I think Jenks was primus inter pares. Manney could be laugh-out-loud funny and was a true polymath and gourmet, but he liked the good life a little too much to "live racing" like Jenks. Pete Lyons came closest in many respects, but the sport had moved on a bit from Jenks' heyday and it wasn't really possible to be on the inside to quite the same extent. Walker and Ireland were splendidly elegant writers, but perhaps still felt a little too wistful for their own days in the sport.
