Okay I know I have brought CART up before. Furthermore I realize that many of you - especially outside the States feel as though CART is completely done period. Although I do not fully agree with that perception I have to admit that it is clearly do or die for CART - that issues of high visibility and extreme importance must be satisfied within the coming months which will decide if CART survives as a slightly different series, or simply disolves altogether.
We all know the vast amounts of problems which CART has caused itself - derived from:
1. Poor planing - TMS, Elkhart Lake, Brazil-lack there of specifically etc...
2. Clear understanding of priorities - slow decision on engine configuration led to Toyota & Honda announcing their departure.
3. Excessive demands - high cost for promoters who cannot obtain a vialbe return.
4. Conflicts of interest - board mambers competing in both the IRL and CART.
and some horrible luck.
The CART management - specifically Joe Hietzler, has done very little to help the situation either. He has not stood out publicly and made CART fans aware of what CART is doing to resolve these issues. This has ultimately led to a great deal of speculation in many American Chat Rooms and Boards...speculation based on rumours because CART (Joe Hietzler) has chosen to remain silent leaving the fans and media with nothing else to speculate over. Hence comes news that Berine Ecclestone is secretly (via Premier1) going to block any venue that CART could sieze internationally - thus blocking the only path left for CART to survive...as it has all but screwed itself in the States...Nonsense - but this is all most fans have to go on however.
Clearly the leadership is in question. Long time CART businessman Jon Vananni and former F1 and current CART promoter Chris Pook are calling for Joe Hietzler's head and the dismissal of the many CART boards - specifically the board which hosts many of the team owners - of which some are actually invovled as well in CARTs rival series, the IRL??? In addition James Grosfeld - owner of 10% of CART's public stock (MPH) has also joined Vananni and Pook in calling for Hietzler to stand down.
Adding fuel to the fire, many CART venues are now calling for a reduction in costs and threatening that they will break contracts if CART does not lower the cost for promoters to host CART races. This is a huge crisis because CART has already lost many legendary tracks such as MIS, Nazerath & Belle, Is (Detroit). This current threat comes from even more, popular circuits that inculde Elkhart Lake & Leguna Seca which CART cannot afford to lose.
Clearly after years of mis-management and continuous changes which have precluded a solid platform, CART's hand is now being forced from the outside... From promoters like Target who don't want to go international, Marlboro - who want to run at Indy, Toyota who see no reason for providing an engine configuration (turbo) which has no practical applications in the consumer market. And finally circuits - who simply won't stand for the high price of CART races to fill half of their grandstands at best.
Decision time has come and a decision(s) will be made shortly - which is why this is an important time for CART and it's fans. And despite what people think, CART does have a few things going for them...
1. Toyota have stated that they could supply up to 10 teams if CART ustilizes a similar configuration to that of the IRL. Cosworth and Judd have also expressed interest in costomer engines - but not for an entire field. Combined these three could complete an entire CART grid - at what has been reported as being a lower cost then that of the IRL.
2. Joe Hietzler will more then likely be removed - as by now even the appearance of a major shake up would benefit CART enormously. If Chris Pook takes his place the logic is one similar to that of F1 and NASCAR in that Pook would clearly be at the helm...no boards and no countless meetings that only promote endless buracracy.
3. Outside of the Indy 500, ratings for the IRL and CART are fairly even - about 1.1 million households. This (IMO) is preciesly why there has not been a huge wave of sponsors following Penske's move to the IRL...this is also why I beleive that Penske will keep 1 car in CART. In addition I think that this sign (sponsors not jumping ship) indicateds that they are all waiting to see what happens...i.e. willing to stay if the right changes and a progressive infastructure can be devised.
4. Sucess already! CART had some great shows of fan support at Mexico and Australia and it looks as though such support will only increase. If they can emulate that support for at least 2-3 races in the States, more IRL fans and others will once again tune in - thereby generating higher ratings and more sponsorship...also possibly re-establishing a few former manufactures.
What stands in the way? CART needs to re-define itself. It needs new leadership and must be removed from public trade - so as not to answer to stock holders but instead the fans. CART also needs a solid network contract - perhaps thus is why they have gone to SpeedVision for a handful of races. It (SpeedVision) may not be as prevelent as a major network but it does a fantastic job at promoting races and after all it has augmented the popularity of F1 in the States.
This is do or die...and frankly I am excited to see what the future holds.
What are you thoughts...please be constructive.
CART
Started by
aportinga
, Nov 29 2001 14:26
26 replies to this topic
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#2
sennadog93
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 14:36
It needs to promote itself outside of America just as F1 needs to better promote itself inside America.
#3
Toyoter
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 14:47
CART needs to just die off and go away. I used to watch every race in the 80's and early 90's, but now I couldn't care less. If CART kicks the bucket, it may help to clear the way for an F1 race on the West Coast 
#4
molive
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 15:07
CART gotta go back to Brazil. The audience here is good, but with no Brazilian race it might decrease rapidly, specially if champ GDF leaves for IRL eith Penske.
#5
Ali_G
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 15:14
Originally posted by sennadog93
It needs to promote itself outside of America just as F1 needs to better promote itself inside America.
I couldn't disagree more. CART is focusing too much on foreign races while its biggest Market, the USA is falling apart.
In the last few years we have seen that CART has been striving to get more foreign races aboard. We've seen Monterey, Lauzitz Ring and Rockingham all added. But at the saem time numerous races back in the states have been dropped. Places like Nazareth and Michigan International have ben dropped.
CART has to sort out its problems at home before it can ever think of spreading out abroad.
Niall
#6
rdrcr
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 15:50
In addition to CART's previously mentioned woes, IMO the most upsetting problem is this lack of direction of what the organizers want the series to become. For this aspect defines the success or failure of the series. Like anything, you can't offer everything to everyone. They must decide what they want to offer the racing fan that has followed them in the past.
I may add that they have made another terrible management blunder as the Indy Lights program, the primary feeder series will be going away. In making that announcement Sept. 10, CART president Joseph Heitzler said, (from RACER) "We believe this is a significant step in strengthening the CART racing development system." CART vice president of communications Ron Richards reiterated that opinion Tuesday.
"As we evaluated our development system, it became apparent that we could offer the greatest benefit to our teams, sponsors and drivers if we consolidated our efforts behind one, top-level series," Richards said in a brief statement. "The number of participants (in Indy Lights) had declined the past couple of seasons and that, coupled with the slowing economy, prompted us to place our efforts behind one series....
The team owners also point to a list of series graduates that includes Scott Dixon, Oriol Servia, Cristiano da Matta, Tony Kanaan, Helio Castroneves, Bryan Herta, Paul Tracy and the late Greg Moore as evidence of their series' superiority to Toyota Atlantic, whose three active alums are Jimmy Vasser, Alex Tagliani and Patrick Capentier. (Da Matta's victory at Australia last weekend was the 45th champ car victory by an Indy Lights graduate since April 18, 1993, when Tracy won at Long Beach.)
For that reason alone, they are hurt and angry. Most of that anger is directed at Heitzler, whom Dorricott said has "done more damage (to CART) in the 10 months or so he's been in there than his four or five predecessors did in all their years. He's done a lot wrong, through inactivity or by making the wrong decisions."
In fairness, however, many of the decisions Heitzler has made and policies he has instituted were the result of actions by his predecessors. Those familiar with the series, for instance, say the demise of Indy Lights is one of those situations.
Thus, this leaves The Toyota Atlantic series as the primary developer of racers for CART.
Moving on
I'd suggest that they stay with predominantly US based events with only a smattering of international events. The Aussie race has been a huge success and they should keep that one. I'm unaware of the contractual obligations, if any, with the England and Germany ovals so I can't really offer an opinion about those without more research. The races in Canada and Mexico are close enough and still attract decent crowds. Plus, there should be a grand turnout for the Montreal race next year.
I think & hope that with the N/A engines coming on line in 2003 that there will be a shifting towards a commonality for both CART & the IRL so that we will see the best teams participating in the Indy 500.
I just can't imagine tracks like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Portland etc. not having a major American series event happening at least once a year.
There are great complexities in returning a publicly held company private. The capitalization must be such that all of the minority shareholders will have to have their stock bought back. the teams / team owners that wish to participate in the series might elect to keep their stock, those that do not will also have to be satisfied. I don't know, without more investigation, if the MPH corporation is capable of doing this.
more later....
I may add that they have made another terrible management blunder as the Indy Lights program, the primary feeder series will be going away. In making that announcement Sept. 10, CART president Joseph Heitzler said, (from RACER) "We believe this is a significant step in strengthening the CART racing development system." CART vice president of communications Ron Richards reiterated that opinion Tuesday.
"As we evaluated our development system, it became apparent that we could offer the greatest benefit to our teams, sponsors and drivers if we consolidated our efforts behind one, top-level series," Richards said in a brief statement. "The number of participants (in Indy Lights) had declined the past couple of seasons and that, coupled with the slowing economy, prompted us to place our efforts behind one series....
The team owners also point to a list of series graduates that includes Scott Dixon, Oriol Servia, Cristiano da Matta, Tony Kanaan, Helio Castroneves, Bryan Herta, Paul Tracy and the late Greg Moore as evidence of their series' superiority to Toyota Atlantic, whose three active alums are Jimmy Vasser, Alex Tagliani and Patrick Capentier. (Da Matta's victory at Australia last weekend was the 45th champ car victory by an Indy Lights graduate since April 18, 1993, when Tracy won at Long Beach.)
For that reason alone, they are hurt and angry. Most of that anger is directed at Heitzler, whom Dorricott said has "done more damage (to CART) in the 10 months or so he's been in there than his four or five predecessors did in all their years. He's done a lot wrong, through inactivity or by making the wrong decisions."
In fairness, however, many of the decisions Heitzler has made and policies he has instituted were the result of actions by his predecessors. Those familiar with the series, for instance, say the demise of Indy Lights is one of those situations.
Thus, this leaves The Toyota Atlantic series as the primary developer of racers for CART.
Moving on
I'd suggest that they stay with predominantly US based events with only a smattering of international events. The Aussie race has been a huge success and they should keep that one. I'm unaware of the contractual obligations, if any, with the England and Germany ovals so I can't really offer an opinion about those without more research. The races in Canada and Mexico are close enough and still attract decent crowds. Plus, there should be a grand turnout for the Montreal race next year.
I think & hope that with the N/A engines coming on line in 2003 that there will be a shifting towards a commonality for both CART & the IRL so that we will see the best teams participating in the Indy 500.
I just can't imagine tracks like Road America, Mid-Ohio, Portland etc. not having a major American series event happening at least once a year.
There are great complexities in returning a publicly held company private. The capitalization must be such that all of the minority shareholders will have to have their stock bought back. the teams / team owners that wish to participate in the series might elect to keep their stock, those that do not will also have to be satisfied. I don't know, without more investigation, if the MPH corporation is capable of doing this.
more later....
#7
molive
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 16:00
Originally posted by Ali_G
CART has to sort out its problems at home before it can ever think of spreading out abroad.
Niall
Depends on what "home" means. If they are serious about expanding and becoming real world wide, they should keep only those US venues that bring good revenue, and get races in places like Australia where it has always enjoyed a great sucess. Evan the European races, with all the rookie probs they had this year, were not that bad, I´m sure they´ll get good results there next year.
#8
molive
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 16:07
Actually, the question is: can CART survive without (or rather with less) US races?
Can they aford to drop a few "bad" races, keep only the great ones (as mentioned above) and get some more good races abroad?
Keep in mind that in terms of drivers nationality, the series has become much more international than American already.
Can they aford to drop a few "bad" races, keep only the great ones (as mentioned above) and get some more good races abroad?
Keep in mind that in terms of drivers nationality, the series has become much more international than American already.
#9
ForzaF1
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 16:29
I don't see why CART could not survive without US races. It is only outside the US that things look at all positive for CART, inside the US there is little interest among motor racing fans (its all NASCAR, all the time) With only a few exceptions the only well attended races are outside the US.
The probelm is the sponsors, some CART sponsors are US-based or US-only concerns, and those that are more international look to F1 for exposure (Marlboro) so the problem for CART is that its growth potential is outside the US, but those paying the bills mostly want US exposure, and for them the Indy 500 alone is worht more than the entire CART season in terms of public exposure. SO unless CART finds some new sponors (not easy in today's economy presumably) its dead and the IRL has already won.
The probelm is the sponsors, some CART sponsors are US-based or US-only concerns, and those that are more international look to F1 for exposure (Marlboro) so the problem for CART is that its growth potential is outside the US, but those paying the bills mostly want US exposure, and for them the Indy 500 alone is worht more than the entire CART season in terms of public exposure. SO unless CART finds some new sponors (not easy in today's economy presumably) its dead and the IRL has already won.
#10
Manson
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 16:59
I don't disagree with the axing of the Lights and increasing the size of the Atlantics. I've never understood why the Lights had flat bottoms in the first place. At least with the Atlantics, the drivers get a handle on how to set up and drive a car with tunnels. Then they move to Lights and throw all that away until they get to CART?!? I talked to Bentham about it and he agreed, the Atlantic was a lot closer to the CART car. I think the reason more drivers have succeeded from Lights is due to the fact more of them came from there instead of Atlantics. With an Atlantic closer to a CART car, this jump should be less steep. Besides, the Atlantic series has a much richer history than Lights.
As far as US races goes, that's a tough call. I know the Canadian races are hugely successful and I expect no less from Montreal. I think CART would be best to concentrate on those US events that are successful and grow those. Nazareth and Michigan were dead and going nowhere fast and although it's a shame, probably the best in the long run.
The races are good for the most part and that's the main thing. If the series were to fold, it would leave a huge gap in NA open wheel racing.
FYI - Just to show how Fender racing has taken over, Open Wheel Magazine in the US has folded. They concentrated on Sprints, Midgets and some Champ Car and IRL racing but it shows where the fans are looking. I don't claim to understand it.
As far as US races goes, that's a tough call. I know the Canadian races are hugely successful and I expect no less from Montreal. I think CART would be best to concentrate on those US events that are successful and grow those. Nazareth and Michigan were dead and going nowhere fast and although it's a shame, probably the best in the long run.
The races are good for the most part and that's the main thing. If the series were to fold, it would leave a huge gap in NA open wheel racing.
FYI - Just to show how Fender racing has taken over, Open Wheel Magazine in the US has folded. They concentrated on Sprints, Midgets and some Champ Car and IRL racing but it shows where the fans are looking. I don't claim to understand it.
#11
DEVO
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 17:04
The only good thing to come of this is that they no longer race at joke tracks such as MIS, Belle Is., and Naz PA.
#12
NYR2119935
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 20:45
CART 
CART
CART
CART
CART
CART
CART
#13
aportinga
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Posted 29 November 2001 - 22:28
First off I'd like to thank all of you for taking the issue seriously...I wasn't sure how the topic - revisited yet again would be accepted. Thanks.
Some of you have mentioned that CART should expand world wide - or add additional races outside the America's. This is an enormous task for the significant reason of sponsorship alone. Lets take a further look at the matter...
CART goes international...Penske is out because Marlboro cannot sponsor any races in those nations that F1 competes in. Furthermore on Marlboro alone, they would would get far less exposure on a pair - or single Penske car then they would compared to the association they currently have in the international market with Schumacher and Ferrari. Other current CART sponsors that also fall into this situation are FedEx (CART's primary sponsor), Mobil, Shell, Firestone, Toyota, Honda and Ford and many more
Then of course we'd have to consider the many national sponsors CART has. Target is a great example because they explicitly stated that they had no interest in a global market and that they would pull out if CART continued to move in that direction. Many other national sponsors also expressed the very same opinion.
Key things to remember...
1. Honda and Toyota are soley in CART because America is their largest market and F1 has not been as broad based in the States...enough at least, to drive a large marketing campaign as CART. If CART expands further, we can only assume that someone on Toyotas and Hondas boards are going to start asking "Why are we supporting to international series?" Ultimately they would pull out of CART because CART is no where near the international platform that F1 is - and probably never will be regardless of the great racing. So without solid manufacture support, CART cannot survive on a long term basis.
2. Sponsors...we covered them already and basically it's the same scenario. Those companies that are international will no doubt spend their greatest money in F1. Some, like Toyota and Honda may spend smaller amounts of cash in CART to break into the lucrative American market but not many.
Without sponsors and manufactures CART will find it difficult to migrate towards a more international flavor. Right now they are buring the candle on both ends - satisfying both their national and international sponsors.
I like Ali_G, feel that there greatest resovle currently exists at home.
Some of you have mentioned that CART should expand world wide - or add additional races outside the America's. This is an enormous task for the significant reason of sponsorship alone. Lets take a further look at the matter...
CART goes international...Penske is out because Marlboro cannot sponsor any races in those nations that F1 competes in. Furthermore on Marlboro alone, they would would get far less exposure on a pair - or single Penske car then they would compared to the association they currently have in the international market with Schumacher and Ferrari. Other current CART sponsors that also fall into this situation are FedEx (CART's primary sponsor), Mobil, Shell, Firestone, Toyota, Honda and Ford and many more
Then of course we'd have to consider the many national sponsors CART has. Target is a great example because they explicitly stated that they had no interest in a global market and that they would pull out if CART continued to move in that direction. Many other national sponsors also expressed the very same opinion.
Key things to remember...
1. Honda and Toyota are soley in CART because America is their largest market and F1 has not been as broad based in the States...enough at least, to drive a large marketing campaign as CART. If CART expands further, we can only assume that someone on Toyotas and Hondas boards are going to start asking "Why are we supporting to international series?" Ultimately they would pull out of CART because CART is no where near the international platform that F1 is - and probably never will be regardless of the great racing. So without solid manufacture support, CART cannot survive on a long term basis.
2. Sponsors...we covered them already and basically it's the same scenario. Those companies that are international will no doubt spend their greatest money in F1. Some, like Toyota and Honda may spend smaller amounts of cash in CART to break into the lucrative American market but not many.
Without sponsors and manufactures CART will find it difficult to migrate towards a more international flavor. Right now they are buring the candle on both ends - satisfying both their national and international sponsors.
I like Ali_G, feel that there greatest resovle currently exists at home.
#14
aportinga
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 14:36
NYR...were u on the RPM Boards?
#15
aportinga
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 15:26
Better news!
St. Petersburg City Council approves CART race Promoters qualified with the St. Petersburg City Council Thursday to turn a waterfront corner of downtown into a world-class auto racecourse in 2003. The council weighed concerns about noise and traffic tieups on streets around the course but decided that worldwide television exposure, tens of thousands of visitors and the possibility of millions of dollars being spent in the city were more important. They unanimously gave promoter Grand Prix Association of Long Beach the preliminary permission it needed to seek sanctioning for a race from Championship Auto Racing Teams. CART will consider the St. Petersburg proposal and a competing effort to stage a race in Hillsborough County.
St. Petersburg City Council approves CART race Promoters qualified with the St. Petersburg City Council Thursday to turn a waterfront corner of downtown into a world-class auto racecourse in 2003. The council weighed concerns about noise and traffic tieups on streets around the course but decided that worldwide television exposure, tens of thousands of visitors and the possibility of millions of dollars being spent in the city were more important. They unanimously gave promoter Grand Prix Association of Long Beach the preliminary permission it needed to seek sanctioning for a race from Championship Auto Racing Teams. CART will consider the St. Petersburg proposal and a competing effort to stage a race in Hillsborough County.
#16
molive
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 15:56
Originally posted by aportinga
Better news!
St. Petersburg City Council approves CART race Promoters qualified with the St. Petersburg City Council Thursday to turn a waterfront corner of downtown into a world-class auto racecourse in 2003. The council weighed concerns about noise and traffic tieups on streets around the course but decided that worldwide television exposure, tens of thousands of visitors and the possibility of millions of dollars being spent in the city were more important. They unanimously gave promoter Grand Prix Association of Long Beach the preliminary permission it needed to seek sanctioning for a race from Championship Auto Racing Teams. CART will consider the St. Petersburg proposal and a competing effort to stage a race in Hillsborough County.
CART isn't dead, believe me. It's ailing, yes, but it will survive (with or without Penske).
F1, who is looking in pretty goo dshape now, could well be dying in a few years (at least in the form we currently know it) if the manufacturers decide to jump ship.
No one is 100% safe in the business world.
#17
NYR2119935
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 16:57
Originally posted by aportinga
NYR...were u on the RPM Boards?
Yes I was for a little bit
#18
NYR2119935
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 17:01
Originally posted by aportinga
Better news!
St. Petersburg City Council approves CART race Promoters qualified with the St. Petersburg City Council Thursday to turn a waterfront corner of downtown into a world-class auto racecourse in 2003. The council weighed concerns about noise and traffic tieups on streets around the course but decided that worldwide television exposure, tens of thousands of visitors and the possibility of millions of dollars being spent in the city were more important. They unanimously gave promoter Grand Prix Association of Long Beach the preliminary permission it needed to seek sanctioning for a race from Championship Auto Racing Teams. CART will consider the St. Petersburg proposal and a competing effort to stage a race in Hillsborough County.
#19
aportinga
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 17:21
NYR...
You'll enjoy this board far more. The people here are from all over the globe - adding an array of different perspectives. And of course the knowledge base demoralizes the RPM board.
Of course their are a few in here whose primary goal is to cause trouble but all in all it's a great place!
Plus you get to use the smiles.
You'll enjoy this board far more. The people here are from all over the globe - adding an array of different perspectives. And of course the knowledge base demoralizes the RPM board.
Of course their are a few in here whose primary goal is to cause trouble but all in all it's a great place!
Plus you get to use the smiles.
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#20
tim
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 17:22
I'm looking forward to the St Petersburg race: should be cool. It'll be interesting to see what the new race in 2002 is like (Denver? Detroit? One of the two, I think).
I'd admit that CART is in trouble but I wouldn't say it was in crisis. I think that Joe Heitzler and the other top guys ought to be replaced. They've handled the engine issue poorly: one manufacturer (Toyota) said that they wanted a different engine formula else they'd quit. So CART changed the formula and the other two (Honda and Ford) said they'd quit because of the way it was bought in. Furthermore, Toyoya initially said that it wouldn't be enough.
CART also had the pop-off valve issue with Honda earlier on this year. Some of the teams objected (IIRC) to the fact that Toyota had worked very closely with CART on the issue and their cars had run in the new configuration.
Texas: just stupid. Wasn't there any testing done on the track? Surely they'd some some simulations that would predict the high speed? The cars were going too fast: change the aero package.
Elkhart Lake (or wherever it was where there was a river across the track!). This was a bit embarrassing as well. CART's been going there for years and surely they've had the issue before.
Rockingham: this wasn't CART's fault (bad weather and all the weepers in the track). However, they should have known that the weather here in the UK is bad at the best of times. Next year, the race is still in September (on my birthday: that'll be a nice present!).
I think that the basic CART product is fairly sound. You have a number of fairly evenly matched drivers and some pretty impressive teams (Penske, Green, Ganassi, Newman-Haas, etc). The racing is very competitive and close. It is (usually) pretty exciting, especially on the oval races. The drivers are very accessible to the fans and most of them seem fairly down-to-earth and likeable. You have the villains (Tracy), the charismatic (Castroneves), the emotional (Moreno). However, some of the talent on show is of questionable value: the perennial backmarkers (Wilson, Casey Mears, etc) and the smaller teams whose only purpose seems to be to fill up the grid.
In addition, some of the stuff that goes on during races is pathetic. Remember at Portland this year. Papis won in the wet. It seemed that every few laps there would be someone go off into the gravel. The caution flag periods sometimes last for too long. The safety crews - whilst being pretty efficient and experienced - sometimes take too long to clear away wrecked cars. There should be cranes on every corner or every other corner.
I would hate to see CART go belly up. It is (usually) far more interesting than F1. It's more innocent than F1. You see the drivers actually driving the cars, instead of being mollycoddled with automatic gearboxes, traction and launch control. There is some exciting talent out there in CART - Castroneves, de Ferran, Brack, Dixon. Even Tracy has his moments
Ho hum. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully they'll get rid of Heitzler and put Chris Pook or someone in charge. Even Bobby Rahal wasn't that bad.
I'd admit that CART is in trouble but I wouldn't say it was in crisis. I think that Joe Heitzler and the other top guys ought to be replaced. They've handled the engine issue poorly: one manufacturer (Toyota) said that they wanted a different engine formula else they'd quit. So CART changed the formula and the other two (Honda and Ford) said they'd quit because of the way it was bought in. Furthermore, Toyoya initially said that it wouldn't be enough.
CART also had the pop-off valve issue with Honda earlier on this year. Some of the teams objected (IIRC) to the fact that Toyota had worked very closely with CART on the issue and their cars had run in the new configuration.
Texas: just stupid. Wasn't there any testing done on the track? Surely they'd some some simulations that would predict the high speed? The cars were going too fast: change the aero package.
Elkhart Lake (or wherever it was where there was a river across the track!). This was a bit embarrassing as well. CART's been going there for years and surely they've had the issue before.
Rockingham: this wasn't CART's fault (bad weather and all the weepers in the track). However, they should have known that the weather here in the UK is bad at the best of times. Next year, the race is still in September (on my birthday: that'll be a nice present!).
I think that the basic CART product is fairly sound. You have a number of fairly evenly matched drivers and some pretty impressive teams (Penske, Green, Ganassi, Newman-Haas, etc). The racing is very competitive and close. It is (usually) pretty exciting, especially on the oval races. The drivers are very accessible to the fans and most of them seem fairly down-to-earth and likeable. You have the villains (Tracy), the charismatic (Castroneves), the emotional (Moreno). However, some of the talent on show is of questionable value: the perennial backmarkers (Wilson, Casey Mears, etc) and the smaller teams whose only purpose seems to be to fill up the grid.
In addition, some of the stuff that goes on during races is pathetic. Remember at Portland this year. Papis won in the wet. It seemed that every few laps there would be someone go off into the gravel. The caution flag periods sometimes last for too long. The safety crews - whilst being pretty efficient and experienced - sometimes take too long to clear away wrecked cars. There should be cranes on every corner or every other corner.
I would hate to see CART go belly up. It is (usually) far more interesting than F1. It's more innocent than F1. You see the drivers actually driving the cars, instead of being mollycoddled with automatic gearboxes, traction and launch control. There is some exciting talent out there in CART - Castroneves, de Ferran, Brack, Dixon. Even Tracy has his moments
Ho hum. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully they'll get rid of Heitzler and put Chris Pook or someone in charge. Even Bobby Rahal wasn't that bad.
#21
molive
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- 9,799 posts
- Joined: March 99
Member
Posted 30 November 2001 - 21:48
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't St. Petesburg in Russia or something? 
#22
aportinga
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- 10,805 posts
- Joined: November 01
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Posted 30 November 2001 - 21:58
St Petersburg is in Florida - right on the coast.
#23
NYR2119935
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- 2,556 posts
- Joined: May 00
Member
Posted 01 December 2001 - 00:47
Originally posted by aportinga
NYR...
You'll enjoy this board far more. The people here are from all over the globe - adding an array of different perspectives. And of course the knowledge base demoralizes the RPM board.
Of course their are a few in here whose primary goal is to cause trouble but all in all it's a great place!
Plus you get to use the smiles.
Well thanx for the tip
hehe
I appreciate it
#24
stevew
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- 495 posts
- Joined: February 00
Member
Posted 01 December 2001 - 21:21
I too, was a big CART fan in the '80s & early '90s.
In a way, with CART "losing" the Indy 500 exposed exactly why CART isn't going to survive: CART simply doesn't know HOW to survive anymore.
Running a major racing series by "committee" is never going to work.
I saw this comment in RACER magazine by David Phillips (this article is about CART's switch to 3.5 NA engines): ...CART's ready, aim, fire approach to rulesmaking cannot have impressed GM and NISSAN...
"ready, aim, fire"... Yep, that's CART. Yep, that's managing by committee.
Without Indy, CART is totally lost and It won't matter HOW many CEOs they bring in...
In a way, with CART "losing" the Indy 500 exposed exactly why CART isn't going to survive: CART simply doesn't know HOW to survive anymore.
Running a major racing series by "committee" is never going to work.
I saw this comment in RACER magazine by David Phillips (this article is about CART's switch to 3.5 NA engines): ...CART's ready, aim, fire approach to rulesmaking cannot have impressed GM and NISSAN...
"ready, aim, fire"... Yep, that's CART. Yep, that's managing by committee.
Without Indy, CART is totally lost and It won't matter HOW many CEOs they bring in...
#25
Slyder
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- 5,453 posts
- Joined: August 01
Member
Posted 01 December 2001 - 21:48
You know, I seriously doubt CART will survive. The series has already its days numbered, and the farthest it will last if the crap keeps on kicking on is probably 2 to 3 years. I mean, lots of embarrassing mistakes has done CART and has had more ridiculous races than any other that it just makes someone sigh in dismay.
Just check this report from www.grandprix.com
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THERE are reports from the United States of America of a revolt by the promoters of the races who are rumored to be insisting that CART guarantees a minimum number of cars and a cut in the fees being levied for the races. If CART refuses to agree to these terms we hear that several tracks are threatening to pull the plug on the series. The tracks involved are believed to include Chicago, Cleveland, Elkhart Lake, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Montreal, Surfers Paradise, Toronto and Vancouver.
Matters are expected to come to a head on Tuesday next week when there is a CART board meeting. This is expected to follow an announcement on Monday that Roger Penske will cut back to just one car in CART, his main effort in 2002 will be in the Indy Racing League. The decision has been made because last year's controversy at Indianapolis where Penske was not allowed to run with Marlboro branding. There is an agreement in the United States that a tobacco company will run each brand in only one nominated series. Marlboro nominated CART and so when the Ferraris went to Indianapolis they had to run without branding. The same happened to Penske at the Indianapolis 500. The 500 is the biggest singles-seater event in the United States and Marlboro does not want to miss it.
The CART board meeting the following day promises to be a lively affair with chief executive Joe Heitzler expected to demand more power and if he fails to get it he may decide that he is wasting his time.
If CART does implode there will be a number of important opportunities created in the United States for Formula 1 to expand and the F1 team bosses would be wise to grab the chances if they are available.
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and that St Petersburg announcement is nothing more than a distraction from the real deal. As far as the time has passed, there has been no absolute indication that CARTs troubles are far from over.
Just check this report from www.grandprix.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THERE are reports from the United States of America of a revolt by the promoters of the races who are rumored to be insisting that CART guarantees a minimum number of cars and a cut in the fees being levied for the races. If CART refuses to agree to these terms we hear that several tracks are threatening to pull the plug on the series. The tracks involved are believed to include Chicago, Cleveland, Elkhart Lake, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Montreal, Surfers Paradise, Toronto and Vancouver.
Matters are expected to come to a head on Tuesday next week when there is a CART board meeting. This is expected to follow an announcement on Monday that Roger Penske will cut back to just one car in CART, his main effort in 2002 will be in the Indy Racing League. The decision has been made because last year's controversy at Indianapolis where Penske was not allowed to run with Marlboro branding. There is an agreement in the United States that a tobacco company will run each brand in only one nominated series. Marlboro nominated CART and so when the Ferraris went to Indianapolis they had to run without branding. The same happened to Penske at the Indianapolis 500. The 500 is the biggest singles-seater event in the United States and Marlboro does not want to miss it.
The CART board meeting the following day promises to be a lively affair with chief executive Joe Heitzler expected to demand more power and if he fails to get it he may decide that he is wasting his time.
If CART does implode there will be a number of important opportunities created in the United States for Formula 1 to expand and the F1 team bosses would be wise to grab the chances if they are available.
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and that St Petersburg announcement is nothing more than a distraction from the real deal. As far as the time has passed, there has been no absolute indication that CARTs troubles are far from over.
#26
aportinga
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- 10,805 posts
- Joined: November 01
Member
Posted 01 December 2001 - 22:07
Slyder...
I see the calls for CARTs current structure to be outed as a positive aspect. Chris Pook - the inevitable replacement, knows what he is doing. I also think that CART has realized that the current structure and way they do business simply does not work. It out to be interesting regardless and the next few months we'll learn more.
I see the calls for CARTs current structure to be outed as a positive aspect. Chris Pook - the inevitable replacement, knows what he is doing. I also think that CART has realized that the current structure and way they do business simply does not work. It out to be interesting regardless and the next few months we'll learn more.
