67 replies to this topic

[bobbo]

After reading a few threads recently, I was reminded of how many drivers in the past had concurrent "multiple careers" in racing. Dan Gurney (of course!!) comes to mind, driving F1, Indy, Nascar. sports cars, sedans, pushmobiles if necessary , Jimmy Clark driving F1, Indy, occasional Nascar, sedans (I recall a photo in the late lamented Sports Car Graphic of him flogging a nascar-style Galaxie 500 around,IIRC, Crystal Palace , Mossie in Sports Cars as well as F1, F2, F3,whatever was available to race, Graham Hill winning the WC, Indy and Le Mans (and other sports car events) for some examples. What I found exciting was that these were concurrent careers. Today, we seem to have "consecutive careers" like Fittipaldi, retiring from F1, going on to CART, along with Eddie Cheever going from F1 to IRL, many othere soo many to think of at this abominable time in the morning.

Then, of course, there was Sir Jackie Stewart who was an Olympic Class Skeet shooter, IIRC.

Two Questions:

ONE:
Who are some of your favorite drivers with multiple CONCURRENT careers? And maybe some of their great drives?

TWO
Who are some other drivers who have had other interesting "side careers" or at leas potential ones??

Should be interesting!!!

[byrkus]

John Surtees should also be mentioned, only man who became WC on two AND four wheels! Or Jack Brabham, driver/constructor champion 1966.

Some time ago, I heard a story about American driver (Tony Stewart?), who raced in Indy 500 and on 600 mile NASCAR race - on the same day!! (later he said, he would not try such attempt again... )

[leegle]

Colin Bond would have to be the one for this. F5000 and touring cars and Formula Vee all in one year as well as winning Rally Championships and Rallycross.

[David M. Kane]

A.J. Foyt was pretty good in NASCAR, Sports Cars and Indy cars. Unfortunately, we never got to see in F1.

Sam Posey besides doing F5000 and F1 was pretty creative and design a line
of furniture as well as undertaking other artistic endeavors.

[AdrianM]

Francois Cevert was a very talented pianist. His parents wanted him to pursue that career but he wanted to race.

[King Nigel]

Jean-Pierre Beltoise, one of the French greatests, won alot of national championship of motorcycles in the 60's. He was fast on 2 or 4 wheels.

talking about my favorite, Nigel Mansell, he won races in Formula One, IndyCars, F3, Formula Ford, touring cars (in the BMW County championship in the 70's) and even a special rallying event organized in England in the early 80's !

[2F-001]

Vic Elford...
I believe he won the Monte Carlo Rally and the Daytona 24-hours on consecutive weekends - and took WDC points too in the same year.

[jmp85]

john surtees, good choice. one could also mention mike the bike, who in one day competed at solitude (1964?) to win the motorcycle championship in the morning, and qualified 5th for the f1 race in the afternoon...

jacky ickx, who one day won 2 races at spa, in (IIRC) sedans and sports cars. of course he also won le mans a few times (:;)), and participated in the dakar rally last year, no?

cheers, jmp85

[anjakub]

To jmp85 post:
Jacky Ickx was three times Belgium trials (motobike) champion before he moving to race cars.

[italia]

Jean-Louis Schlesser:

World Champion Sportscar in 1989 and 1990
World Champion Cross Country Rallies 1998-2001 with the Schlesser buggy

He won the Race of Champions in 1994 beating all the rallystars.

And he is even famous in Formula 1 (Monza 1988...) IMO NOT his fault, he had nowhere to go.

Sorry bobbo, most of this is consecutive, but not less special.

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by byrkus
Some time ago, I heard a story about American driver (Tony Stewart?), who raced in Indy 500 and on 600 mile NASCAR race - on the same day!! (later he said, he would not try such attempt again... )

It was Tony Stewart, and he did try the attempt again this year.

[David M. Kane]

Peter Revson once won the SuperStars event. This is a big event shown on
American TV where professionals from all types of sports compete. Some are
NFL footballers, NBA, Track and Field, etc. He won outright over 12 other
stars. This was quiet a feat in my mind.

[flyboy]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned Mario yet! As best I recall, he has done F-1, Indy, NASCAR, sportscars, F5000, LeMans, USAC dirt cars, CanAm, TransAm??, many of them concurrently. Mario

[rdrcr]

flyboy,

I was about to... Mario was one of the best and most adaptable drivers in history. Driving most anything and winning.

The most famous and honored cross over expert John Surtees Went from motorcycles to cars, winning championships in both.

Another cross over, Mike "the bike" Hailwood who's career in F1 and other car racing never equalled his motorcycle record - although he did win the F2 championship.

Emerson Fittipaldi had several business concerns going while he was still active in racing

There are probably lots of linear or concurent careers out there - Marc Gene - the racing CPA for another instance.

Racers like Tony Stewart are far and few between these days. Sponsor and contract conflicts prohibit most from participation in more than one series.

[Pikachu Racing]

Few others:

Geoff Brabham - IMSA, CART, even one race in NASCAR. He one of the few non-NASCAR, non-CART, non-IRL drivers to win an IROC race. Brabham won it twice both at Michigan

Jeff Ward - from the motorcross days to the IRL. Possibly one of few good IRL drivers that never ever won a race. He was a riot in motorcross, possibly one of the best from the U.S. I wonder if he did get a shot in superbikes.

[Pikachu Racing]

Another driver we forgotten: Robby Gordon. He can drive anything except in NASCAR which is still questionable despite his Loudon win. BAJA road racing, Trans Am, CART, IRL, NASCAR......how about give this guy a F1 ride? Let's see how he will do.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by bobbo
Two Questions:

ONE:
Who are some of your favorite drivers with multiple CONCURRENT careers? And maybe some of their great drives?

TWO
Who are some other drivers who have had other interesting "side careers" or at leas potential ones??

The most adaptable drivers in motorsports history have to be Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt. Jim Clark, Vic Elford, Jackie Ickx, Graham Hill, Mark Donohue are other notables.

I think David Pearson would have been a Trans Am champion had he participated in the series full-time. He won a Trans Am race in the 60's. I am convinced that Masten Gregory would have been an outstanding Indy Car driver as it took huge balls to be fast at Indy and Masten displayed this at the 1965 Indy 500 by going from 31st to 5th in a half hour. Indy Car driver Parnelli Jones won the Trans-Am championship one year in the late 60's.

[AS110]

Bruce McLaren and Denny Hulme.

Bruce designing,building,testing and racing in F1 and Can Am,plus a bit of Le Mans to keep him occupied in the slack times.

Denny getting his WC and cleaning up in Can Am,plus Le Mans.In his old age Denny rode a big Bmw flat twin in off road events.And like some other Southern Hemisphere drivers,he also drove at Bathurst.

[Haddock]

I'm not sure, but I think James Hunt was a junior squash champion.

A surprising number of F1 drivers have raced touring cars.... often before their F1 careers took off. Michael Schumacher raced for Mercedes in a 190E in 1991. Damon Hill raced a Sierra Cosworth in the BTCC in the early nineties. And every two bit Italian early 90s F1 driver you can think of appears to be racing in touring cars these days.

Look forward to seeing Alesi show them all the way next year ;)

[BMW FW22]

Juan Pablo Montoya

[2F-001]

Dave Kane mentioned Peter Revson winning 'SuperStars' (multi-discipline-athletic contest) . Jody Scheckter won the equivalent in the UK, and fairly convincingly. I think also that Jackie Stewart won a ''seniors'' version.

I was interested in the mention of Mark Donohue - I've long held him to be a very great racing figure but he doesn't get talked about much, especially in Britain. (I so wanted him to do well in F1.) How is he regarded generally? In the US is he considered a hero - or did his continued success and omnipresence turn him into ''reviled establishment bore'' as would probably have happened in Britain! I always figured him to one of the key figures in making Penske what he/they are today. Does Penske broadly equate to Ron Dennis in the eyes of detractors? (Penske does have fine driving credentials though...) Sorry, I've strayed way off thread here... maybe I should begin a separate thread on Mark D.

Not quite so pestigious as Elford, but I think Jonathan Palmer won the Jim Clark Cup (non-turbo bit of WDC), shared in a WSC Group C win with Mauro Baldi, and made the final of the British Rallycross Grand Prix, all in the same season.

[Barry Boor]

I seem to recall reading the Elio de Angelis was a concert quality pianist.

Francois Migault was a very highly regarded sprinter before he moved into motor sport. Well that's what he said, anyway!

[Jonathan Merry]

Sarel van der Merwe must be the most multi-talented South African driver. He won no less than 11 national rally championships and two circuit racing titles, one in Group 1 (1977) with a spindly 1200 cm Citroen and the other a Wesbank V8 championship (1994) with the brutish Roush-built six litre Ford Mustang.

A decade of rally domination saw Sarel claim titles in cars ranging from the BDA Escorts that ruled the forests throughout the world for almost 10 years to the awesome four-wheel drive Audi Quatros that changed the face of rallying for ever.

He also had a huge amount of success in the international sports car arena. Together with fellow South Africans Graham Duxbury and Tony Martin he pulled off a stunning win in the Daytona 24-hour race at the wheel of the unique Porsche powered Kreepy Krauly March. Afterwards he became one of the most respected drivers and front runner in the USA IMSA sports car series.

Success wasn`t confined to the USA, though. At Le Mans his speed and sheer commitment at night held him in high esteem with the established teams and he was a member of the works Porsche team in 1988.

A return to rallying with Korean manufacturer Daewoo saw him win two closely fought Castrol Rallies in Swaziland and lose the national championship in 1998 when the team fell foul of officialdom. This year he won the Wesbank V8 series (his 16th? national championship).

Only F1 seems to have eluded him, and if I remember correctly this was due to him being too tall.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I seem to recall reading the Elio de Angelis was a concert quality pianist.

Yeah, me too! And I think it was Elio who Jenks once described as the only Formula One driver of his era with whom it was possible to spend a lively and interesting evening without once mentioning motor racing.

Vanwall.

[Santi]

I have one for you.

Alfonso Cabeza de Vaca, Portago's marquis, who was killed in the 57' Mille Miglia, was an excellent swimmer, polo player, and even did race in the final of bobsleigh at Saintz Moritz Olympic Games, without any experience!, only because of a bet.

By the way, Damon Hill and Achille "Archie" Varzi have one thing in common, both started theirs racing career with motorbikes.

[bobbo]

Lots of good replies!! Really triggered some great memories!!

Honestly, I somehow forgot about Mario!!

Also, I somehow remember that Phil Hill was also a decent pianist and is well-known as a collector and restorer of old player pianos and piano rolls!! Can any one confirm/refute this?

Bobbo

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Vanwall


Yeah, me too! And I think it was Elio who Jenks once described as the only Formula One driver of his era with whom it was possible to spend a lively and interesting evening without once mentioning motor racing.

Vanwall.

Which was the precise reason why Elio and Keke Rosberg were very close - having the ability to spend time in each others company without necessarily talking shop.

[LittleChris]

Elio & DSJ may have got on, but didn't Elio give him a right hander at Hockenheim one year after an argument over something Jenks wrote about him ?!?

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Elio & DSJ may have got on, but didn't Elio give him a right hander at Hockenheim one year after an argument over something Jenks wrote about him ?!?

Elio did indeed have a little 'altrication' with DSJ, but it was blown out of all proportion according to Autocourse 1983. He had taken exception to some critical remarks made by DSJ in the press, and the story goes that when DSJ arrived in the Lotus pit during the race weekend, Elio attempted to push him out of the garage. Unfortunately, he ended up putting DSJ on his back!

The funniest thing of all regarding this story was that DSJ had got the wrong Lotus, his comments in the first instance were actually aimed at Mansell!!

[andrea]

Andrea de Cesaris,but he didnt have a good car except maybe when he was at Alfa.

Forza Andrea,

[fines]

1949 Indy 500 winner Bill Holland was Pennsylvania ice racing champ (I suppose that's skating) from 1923-29, then roller skating titlist from 1929-32. That's an impressive ten-year run as a champion, starting at the age of 15! In 1941 he won the AAA Eastern Sprint Car Championship at the ripe age of 33, then debuted in Champ Cars at 39 (1947), finishing first or second in each of his first five races! In the sixth race, he retired on the first lap. His total record was three wins, six seconds, one fourth and one fifth from 25 starts.

[italia]

How about Valentino Rossi!
We all know he's a great motorbike racer (WDC 125 '97, WDC 250 '99, WDC 500 '01).
But he's also a very talented rally driver:
At the Race of Champions this year he made it to the quaterfinal, defeated by Alister McRae by just 1 sec. in both stints. Another one that will make a carreer on both 2 and 4 wheels!

Valentino World Champion Rally 2004!!!

[Wolf]

And wasn't Olivier Gendebien (apart from being versatile driver) a very good sprinter and isn't some soccer team said to have had his eye on him? Not that it would bring him zillions of dollars like nowdays, but I think money he earned racing was also much smaller than it'd be nowdays...

And just to summarize Moss' 4-wheeled proficiencies: GP, sports cars, FII, FIII, hill climbs, rallies, trials, endurance events, land speed records...

[KenC]

Surprised it took so long for Mario's name to come up, considering he would figure at the top of most people's lists, of most diverse racer.

Of those people not yet metioned, I'd add Eddie Lawson, multiple FIM GP champion. He was pretty fair in cars, as he was an Indy Lites rookie of the year, I believe, and tried to make it in CART with a team on the decline, Galles. Unfortunately, starting with a team on the decline killed his career. Eddie was replaced 2/3rd the way thru his first season by sportscar star, Davy Jones, who proceeded to do no better than Eddie. So, who knows, with a better team, he might have made a career of it in CART.

[fines]

Originally posted by italia
How about Valentino Rossi!
(snip) Another one that will make a carreer on both 2 and 4 wheels!

God spare us that...

[Wolf]

Fines, I'm sure Italia didn't mean that...

[Paolo]

I heard Elio De Angelis play piano on TV, and he was really talented.
I aldso heard Gilles Villeneuve play trumpet, once, but I could not judge his level from that short performance.

About Sport :

I seem to recall Alain Prost had a career in football (soccer, to you Americans...), and was once selected by Paris Saint Germain.

Teo Fabi was very good at junior level skying

Alfonso Portago was FOURTH at the winter Olympic games racing bobs for Spain, and also very good at horse riding.

Riccardo Patrese is a quite good football player, often training with Padova Calcio when he was in F1

[cabianca]

I would propose that racing on loose surfaces is about as different from F1 as anything. There have been rally drivers who went on to GP careers, however short. How about people who have had GP drives who raced on dirt ovals. I'm leaving out those who raced at Indy when it gave WC points. Here are a few, can someone come up with more.

Mario Andretti
Jack Brabham
Troy Ruttman
Phil Hill
Rodger Ward
Lloyd Ruby
Bobby Unser

[jun]

Nelson Piquet was a very promising talent in tennis. And his father didn't like him racing cars. So in order to settle the matter they played a game of tennis. The winner decided the future of Nelson.

Thank god he won it!

[Vitesse2]

Two more in the dirt oval category: Derek Warwick and Frank Gardner (although Frank never got further than F5000).

And the outstanding rally/F1 driver: Vic Elford, of course ...

[jun]

And our all beloved M. Schumacher can allways try to compete in professional football (soccer).
That is if his F1 career doesn't turn out the way he wants it.;)

[jmp85]

jacques villeneuve was in a skiing school (where craig pollock was his instructor) before going into motor-racing.

bob wolleck (r.i.p.) was a talented skier too i believe, friend/colleague of j.c. killy (french olympic medalist in 68)

damon hill was a delivery bike driver ;)

cheers, jmp85

[El Tapatio]

Paul Frere. Great sportscar driver (won Le Mans) and a terrific writer. He kept on testing very fast road cars for magazines until well into his seventies!

[bergwerk]

Can't believe that this thread has gone for so long without anybody, particularly vitesse2, mentioning Tazio Nuvolari's exploits on the various bikes that he raced including his win at Monza where he had to be lifted on the bike with a cast on the leg that he had broken the previous day.

[Pirelli1]

From modern day-whatever that is

John Andretti- Champ Cars- Dragsters and NASCAR

Robby Gordon- Dirt Bikes, Off-road, Sports Cars, Champ Cars and NASCAR.

Those two guys are the only active drivers that I know of that have wins in both CART and NASCAR.

Tony Stewart- Midgets, Sprint Cars, Indy Cars and NASCAR ( Was an IRL Champ, but I don't consider that to be a legit championship) I think Tony will be the next guy to notch both a Daytona 500 and a Indy 500 win.

[2F-001]

Quote:
<< (although Frank never got further than F5000) >>

I think Gardner drove in a few Grands Prix before the advent of F5000 - no doubt someone can confirm/deny and supply details... ?!

[Chico Landi]

Raul Boesel's first sport was horse jumping. And at the end of 90's he took part in a big event in Brazil, with reasonable success.

History prooved that 1HP was not enough for him...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by bergwerk
Can't believe that this thread has gone for so long without anybody, particularly vitesse2, mentioning Tazio Nuvolari's exploits on the various bikes that he raced including his win at Monza where he had to be lifted on the bike with a cast on the leg that he had broken the previous day.

I was waiting to see if anyone else mentioned it ....

Originally posted by 2F-001
I think Gardner drove in a few Grands Prix before the advent of F5000 - no doubt someone can confirm/deny and supply details... ?!

Sorry - how right you are!! I forgot his very forgettable F1 career - 8 races, no points, mostly in a John Willment Brabham. But his F5000 career was certainly the peak of his achievements in single-seaters.

[bobbo]

According to FORIX:

Frank Gardner

1964 Great Britain Brabham/Ford (!!) Retired

1965 South Africa Brabham/BRM 12th

Monaco " 10th

Belgium " 10th(??Can't read my writing)

Great Britain " 8th

Netherlands " 11th

Germany " retired

Italy " 15th

1968 Italy BRM NQ

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Gerard Larrousse was a great rally-driver and a topstar in Formula 2 and Sortscars. And a constructor.