23 replies to this topic

[The Jet]

Does anyone know why F1 does not allow onboard starters. I'm sure this is an old topic, but its frustrating to see drivers in perfectly good cars holding things up just becasue of a spin induced stall.

Are they too heavy?
Is it just tradition?
Or do max and bernie just don't like them?

Your thoughts...

------------------
Jet

"90% of the game is half mental" -Yogi Berra

[mono-posto]

They are allowed.
Any car can have a starter in it.
But a starter motor is one heavy piece equipment whan viewed with the potential weight savings of not having one.

So most (all?) teams opt against it.

[Mosquito]

Nearly every(?) team uses an advanced anti-stall mechanism. I don't know the details, but it seems to work pretty good.

(Think the upcoming TC / software restrictions are gonna make the anti-stall stuff a thing of the past though...)


[This message has been edited by Mosquito (edited 04-03-2000).]

[The Jet]

Interesting replies -- thanks. Makes sense, the whole weight savings thing. How do you suppose anti-stall software works??

------------------
Jet

"90% of the game is half mental" -Yogi Berra

[Mosquito]

How do you suppose anti-stall software works

I suppose it has to do with the clutch and throtle systems.
The logic is very easy:
if (CURRENT_RPM < MIN_RPM) {
do {
ApplyClutch()
ApplyThrotle()
while (DriverDoesNotRespond());
)

Geeezzzz! Would I just have lost my cover of NOT being into software...?

[Limey]

It would also require a large battery (more weight) to turn over a high compression engine.

[P1 Pyrsol]

I thought FIA disallowed energy storage devices in F1 ... ?

No?

When did this change?

[Bogman]

I asked this question here about 2 months ago. I got some really good replies, so you might want to search for it in the archives.

[The Jet]

Mosquito,

Hmmm almost sounds Coulthard-proof...
almost.

------------------
Jet

"90% of the game is half mental" -Yogi Berra

[PDA]

Mosquito - the Ferrai anyi stall device works really well - ask Michael Schumacher to verify its quality

[Chris G.]

I always *thought* onboard starters were banned. Gonna search the archives.

I bet that anti-stall doesn't work when you accidently downshift like Mika did last year. The software can't keep up w/the physics on that.

Then again, maybe it does...he was stuck in the gravel.


[This message has been edited by Chris G. (edited 04-03-2000).]

[borneof1]

Does anyone know what cause a F1 car to stall?

[Laphroaig]

Chris G: Anti-stall had to be activated AND de-activated manually according to the FIA rules, if you downshift too for (like Mika) it stalls immediately, you don't have time touse the anti-stall... When you spin off the track you have enough time...

BorneoF1: Probably about the same tings as a normal car (letting the clutch go to quickly without applying enough throttle... that is, if you use petrol, not diesel)... only in an F1 car the timing/control is much more critical ;)

[PeaQ]

Is it legal to "push-start" the engine then?

[slc]

Nope.

[Mosquito]

the Ferrai anyi stall device works really well - ask Michael Schumacher to verify its quality

PDA: I thought is was the pit lane speed delimiter software doing the TC and standing starts!

[mountain dude]

i dont think a starter would take too much weight as the cars are pretty underweight anyway these days. all the valves could be opened a bit to speed the engine up, then closed to bring up compression, this would keep starter size to a minimum. what with illegal energy storage, they could even use a sophisticated in cockpit handcrank mechanism couldn't they?

md

[slc]

MD, the starter might not be too heavy but the teams want to use as much ballast as possible to alter the cars center of gravity.

[Williams]

I think energy storage is disallowed only where it would contribute to the performance of the vehicle, in order to disallow brake energy recovery systems.

[Mosquito]

Push starts forbidden? Oh boy, better tell Herbert about it...;)

[P1 Pyrsol]

Originally posted by Williams:
I think energy storage is disallowed only where it would contribute to the performance of the vehicle, in order to disallow brake energy recovery systems.

How then, with all electronics interconnnected on a circuit, could tech know what energy was being directed where, particularly when programs can be written to time out after, say, a certain number of rotations on a hub, or a certain amount of time, etc.

[Sal]

In an interview with Jackie Stewart immediately following the Australian GP, he was discussing Irvine's 'retirement'. His statement was something to the effect of "Eddie's car spun whilst trying to avoid Pedro's accident, the engine stalled and Eddie could not get it to restart, which is not unusual at these temperatures". I remember being surprised when I heard this, as it seems to imply some form of ignition system.

**Sal heads off to replay the interview, suspecting her memory is playing tricks again**

[Sal]

Sal sighs with relief . . .

Here it is in his words:
"....Eddie was right behind him trying to avoid the debris and the spinning car of de la Rosa, and when he spun he stalled the engine, and the engine would not restart, which is quite normal in these temperatures."

with apologies for the not-so scottish accent

[slc]

LOL, Mosquito.
I guess Johnny really wanted to continue the race...


[This message has been edited by slc (edited 04-05-2000).]