41 replies to this topic

[Maldwyn]

I never thought of this as a particularly attractive example of a Grand Prix car but the recent issue of F1 Racing has a piece about it and I must say it looks stunning. Tony Southgate's concept was very ambitious and, according to the article, figures from the windtunnel were very impressive but these never transferred to the racetrack. Only two examples of the A2 were made (one now owned by Jackie Oliver) and Oliver says he knew it was a failure almost as soon as it hit the track
oldracingcars.com

[Zawed]

I've always liked the early Arrows cars with the Warsteiner sponsorship, and the rounded bullet nose. It looks very aggresive and slightly different. The A2, was that the one with the slightly tilted engine for lower centre of gravity or something? Good concept, but not practical.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by Zawed
The A2, was that the one with the slightly tilted engine for lower centre of gravity or something?

Yes it was. Oliver said that before Southgate tilted the engine and gearbox the car was getting three or four times more downforce than the team had ever managed before. The problem was too much downforce and the chassis had to be strengthened adding weight...

[Wolf]

I like that car, it had something special in its look... The camera angle in this photo (from Motor Racing Retro), IMHO, particularly flatters the car.

[Rediscoveryx]

That particular model seems to be the most dangerous of all the ground effect cars. Imagine if the giant wing got airborne...

[LittleChris]

Probably explains why it was nicknamed ' The Doodlebug ' in the UK IIRC !!

[carlos.maza]

Zawed, Maldwin:

I seem to remember that Tony Southgate tilted the engine not to lower the CG, but to smooth the air flow under the car, trying to create a venturi tube all across the car's bottom. Maybe this is the reason for such downforce figures.

I think this should add some complexity to the transmission. Any information about this issue?

Carlos

[Maldwyn]

Gearbox and suspension failures seem to be the most common retirement reasons for the A2 but when running it wasn't exactly quick Jochen Mass did manage to score 1 point for 6th at both the German and Dutch Grands Prix though

[David M. Kane]

It does look extremely efficient. I can't imagine too much downforce. I have driven an RT-4 Ralt with ground effects it was pretty amazing when it
kicks in. You really do feel like you are on rails. What is amazing about grounds effects is what Parker Johnstone told me one time. He said if you changed the angle of attack by more than 13 degrees you could lose more than 70% of your downforce. I can only imagine what that would be like if you were going through a fast sweeper, etc.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by Wolf
I like that car, it had something special in its look... The camera angle in this photo (from Motor Racing Retro), IMHO, particularly flatters the car.

That's always been my favorite shot of that car.

[Garagiste]

Is it just me or do rounded "bullet" noses go hand in hand with dreadful F1 cars?
I'm thinking particularly of the '92 Brabham and the '95 McLaren. Can anybody think of a succesful car with a similarly shaped front end?

[Jhope]

The 1982 Ferrari's had a derivitive of the bullet nose, as did most cars of the ground effect generation. By all means, even though one of their drivers was killed, and the other crippled, the 126C was a pretty succesful car.

[carlos.maza]

I like that car, it had something special in its look... The camera angle in this photo (from Motor Racing Retro), IMHO, particularly flatters the car.

Wolf:
I also like the car. It is one of my all-time favourites.
I am not sure if there's something wrong with the shot. I think those are the real proportions of the car. The car is lower than contemporary cars. Look at Patrese's eyes heigh compared to the front and rear wheels. It is lower than say, same year Jarier's Tyrrell, Tambay's McLaren, Depailler's Ligier (all of them in Argentina) or Mass' Arrows A1B in Spain (side views) shown in the same page.

Also, it is very interesting to note the shape of the floor, clearly seen near the lower inner side of the right-front tyre. Here we can see that the curvature begins at the driver's back.


Just dreaming a little: don't you think this car would look beautiful with a closed cockpit, such as a Jet fighter and a covered engine?

Carlos

[No27]

It's gorgeous!

And a enginecover would make it even more beautifull than it allready is. The bulletnose is far more pretty than todays streched witchesnoses. One other example of a great bulletlike nose is the 1982 Tyrrell



On second thoughts, I think the A2 looks simulair to the Lotus 88 that came two years later.
That had no frontwing and some sort of rearspoiler instead of a full wing, just like the A2.
Does anybody know this is just coincidence or is the remsemblance due to the same designchoices?

[Wolf]

Carlos- I did say flatters, not flattens...;) BTW, thanx to this thread I don't feel myself odd for liking that car.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by No27
I think the A2 looks simulair to the Lotus 88 that came two years later.

The Lotus 88 may have looked similar but was a far more complex design aimed at getting around the rulebook of the time by having two chassis. The Arrows A2 , while slightly weird looking, was comparatively conventional.

[carlos.maza]

Friends:

I added an engine cover and a closed cockpit to the Arrows A2. Looks more fluid.
You can see it at:

http://www.geocities...l?1008186191138

BTW, how can I insert the picture in my post? Not only make reference to a web page?

Wolf: Sorry for the misunderstanding. I am going to write 1000 times flatter <> flatten!!!

[No27]

Originally posted by carlos.maza

BTW, how can I insert the picture in my post? Not only make reference to a web page?

Rightclick mouse on picture and choose "properties", select and copy the URL.
In the buttonbar at the posteditting page, choose the button IMG, click it and paste the URL.

That's it, and it took me nearly a day to find out

By the way, the closed cockpit looks excelent! Can you smoothen the enginecover? The two bulges somehow detonate with the rest of the car. (O, that's me, being too critical, I apologize)

[No27]

I read F1-Racing at the newsagency (I'm not going to buy it!) and it contains an article on the A2. With really great fotography!

[ghinzani]

I always thought the A2 would have made a good Can-Am car.

[Thundersports]

Has anyone got any pics of the rear end of the A2 with the body on and off as it would help with the restoration of one!

[arttidesco]

I thought it looked even better with the bigger rear North American spec high rear wing and endplates than when the A2 first came out :-)

[eldougo]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by eldougo, 03 March 2011 - 05:52.

[Thundersports]

Thanks guys. Anymore anyone

[simonlewisbooks]

Thanks guys. Anymore anyone

Patrese, Dutch GP 1979


Photo copyright- simonlewis.com

The late Ken Wells (author of several books on Le Mans in the late 1980s) owned an A2 at the time of his untimely death in the early 90s.
He once told me he opened the garage doors to allow a vistor to show his son a real F1 car in the flesh... and the lad promptly jumped very forcefully onto the sidepod....
Luckily the Arrows proved to be up to the battering, thus illustrating the point that it was somewhat stronger/heavier than was really good for it.

[Thundersports]

Patrese, Dutch GP 1979


Photo copyright- simonlewis.com

The late Ken Wells (author of several books on Le Mans in the late 1980s) owned an A2 at the time of his untimely death in the early 90s.
He once told me he opened the garage doors to allow a vistor to show his son a real F1 car in the flesh... and the lad promptly jumped very forcefully onto the sidepod....
Luckily the Arrows proved to be up to the battering, thus illustrating the point that it was somewhat stronger/heavier than was really good for it.

I remember that one being for sale in the earlt 90s for just 25k as a roller. That one is now in Japan and in a very poor state with lots of components missing.

[simonlewisbooks]

I remember that one being for sale in the earlt 90s for just 25k as a roller. That one is now in Japan and in a very poor state with lots of components missing.

[Thundersports]

Simon; the good news is the other one (only two were built) will be on track again sometime in the future!

[Arjan de Roos]

Simon; the good news is the other one (only two were built) will be on track again sometime in the future!

Weren't there three?

[Thundersports]

Weren't there three?

Definently not........

[Tim Murray]

Old Racing Cars lists a third chassis:

http://www.oldracing...e.php?TypeID=A2

[Thundersports]

It has never existed.

Edited by Thundersport, 18 December 2010 - 18:59.

[Nordic]

It has never existed.

But will do when the value makes it worthwhile to build!

[Thundersports]

But will do when the value makes it worthwhile to build!

[Arjan de Roos]

I am still in doubt. By the way, what lettering is seen between the engine and the start number on the right hand side of the car?

[alansart]

I am still in doubt. By the way, what lettering is seen between the engine and the start number on the right hand side of the car?

PATENT PENDING

[MODE]

Photos taken by Loic Le Clainche at Dijon GP, hope to see it on track again soon

[Thundersports]

Thank you MODE the 3rd one down looks very useful.

[MODE]

One was on display last week at the Nürburgring, is it the car from Japan ?

[Thundersports]

One was on display last week at the Nürburgring, is it the car from Japan ?

No that one is the Nurburgring ring mueseum car the Japan car is still in Japan. Check here for a little A2 "fun"..............http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101159

Edited by Thundersport, 12 September 2011 - 21:19.

[MODE]

Interesting story I guess the restored one won't be seen on track this year, do they plan to race it next year ?

I uploaded the photos of the one on display at the Nurburg museum, it looks great with all the original bodywork :

http://www.gurneyflap.com/formule170's3.html

[Arjan de Roos]

Thank you for the pics Mode. As usual great effort from GurneyFlap!!