36 replies to this topic

[Peter North]

F1 drivers seem to have it easy compared to fighter pilots, who have to go through more severe G-loads and more mental stress than anyone on the planet. To top it off, not only can they die in an accident, they can also die during warfare, and are fully prepared to do so. Everyone praises F1 drivers for the mental toughness, but they seem to be real nancy boys compared to fighter pilots.

Your thoughts please.

[Cociani]

No comparison as far as I'm concerned. A fighter pilot will occasionally expirience higher g-loads but is only doing that for a short period of time not two hours straight. A fighter pilot does not compete in front of an audience of close to a billion people and is rarely close enough to any object to hit it. Could an f1 driver tolerate the g-forces of a fighter plane without special training? I doubt it. An f1 driver will never be shot at or taken as a P.O.W. An f1 driver gets paid on average way better. To sum up its really apples and oranges, both are unbelievably phisically taxing and stressfull, both are dangerous but certainly neither are namby pamby wussy boys. It takes a special kind of person to do either job.

[Bjorn]

During warfare being in a fighter jet is probably the one of the safest place to be. Nearly impossible to down the buggers nowadays. Add to that that despite the higher speeds they are also much further away from anything to collide with, whereas F1 drivers often have to exit a turn at nearly 200 km/h, and end up a few centimetres from a guardrail/wall/whatever. The higher g-forces are of a very different nature I'd imagine, an F1 car is practically glued to the track so you go from high to low forces and back again extremely quickly. A fighter is very fast, but it's in the air so I'd imagine the forces are more gradual. I may be wrong about this though. Fighter pilots have special uniforms on that keep the circulation going and are therefore not as susceptible to the g-forces as F1 drivers.

At any rate, nancy boys they're not, no matter if someone is mentally tougher than them out there somewhere or not.

[Flying Panda]

I'd say no. Not at all.

Who says F1 pilots are not willing to die during a war for what they belive in.
Who say ALL fighter pilots are?

And G-Forces are only found during Acceleration (ie, accelerating, braking turning), so Fighter pilots experience them when te accelerate, just like F1 drivers. there is no argument that Fighter pilots have more G forces, but how does that make F1 drivers 'namby pamby wussy boys' ???????
Who is to say F1 drivers cannot handle the G-forces produced by Jetfighters... If Steve Irwin can, i think anyone can......

[Pirelli1]

One of my good friends flies Harriers in Marine Corps. He says the profession is highly overated and that anyone could do it with the right training and eyesight. I don't think you could say the same about Grand Prix drivers, except maybe the ones that buy their rides.

[RiverRunner]

I seriously doubt that any race driver,even top fuel drivers,pull anywhere near the G's a fighter pilot does,especially day in,day out.
That being said,I'd have to say that a race drivers health is more at risk,usually a fighter pilot is only allowed one accident and then he is either feeding the worms or sitting on the ground without a career.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Pilots have G-suits though. RiverRunner the fitness aspect is interesting. As you noted in the other thread, your friend doesnt seem fit, but more than passes physicals. Just looking at the average fighter jock, they dont seem as highly tuned as an F1 driver phsyically, but obviously its more than just looks.

Early on when I was going through Skip Barber and was doing one of the courses, we had an F18 pilot, gulf war vet. I guess he'd had a really basic cancer and got discharged but was still very healthy. He told me that the basic trainer racers we were in were harder than any plane he'd been in.

[RiverRunner]

I suppose it's a case of apples and oranges as much as anything else,I've also seen some videos of drivers that went for hops with the blue angels of thunderbirds that got out looking rather worse for wear.I think it was Carpentier.
Completely different sets of skills and physical demands.
I did some time in an Aeromacchi trainer,prop,aerobatics rated and also a few hundred miles off road racing,both beat the shite outta me and I didn't think my kidneys would ever be the same after the off roading stuff.

[JBDrake]

Since when was warfare a sport anyway? There is nothing to compare.

[StickShift]

An aspect that I think has not been shown through out this post is this. With all the G's a Formula one driver pulls, he has to fight them to turn the wheel, the lateral forces do not make this easy. While on the other hand, the Fighter Pilot does need to deal with G-forces from all angles, but they do not need the strength to move the flightstick left or right or front and back. The Pilot doesn't need the upper body strength to deal with the controls. A racing Driver on the other hand doesn't have it as easy, he needs the strength to turn the wheel while fighting the track. Plus (this is not counting Dogfighting or tactical combat), But a Formula Driver is much more reactive and has a more intense ride then a pilot will probably have.

But think about it this way, What if a Pilot was to jump into a Formula 1 car? What if a Formula 1 driver was to step into a F/A-18? chances are, both wouldn't feel at home in there neighbours yard.

[colejk]

This is something that I've thought about myself.

But remember, F1 drivers are the best in their respective field.
How many race car drivers are there? Lots.

How many fighter pilots are there? Lots.
But exactly who are the best fighter pilots? I'm sure they are
pretty amazing at what they do, but remember there are lots of 40+
year olds flying F15s around, not many driving F1 cars.

What does that say?

You should compare race car drivers and fighter pilots and than say
the elite pilots with F1 drivers.

I do think that a F1 driver takes far greater loads on a continual
basis than a pilot. A dogfight rarely lasts longer than 1-2 minutes.
(so I've heard on the Discovery Channel) In fact one of the most
dramatic dogfights during Vietnam lasted about 10 minutes which
is incredible.

Now a whole 2 hour race with F1 g forces..well very few people on
the planet can do that.

[servellen]

Uuuhhhh, I don't get it...

[Prostfan]

I don't think this can be compared in any way.

As for fitness I think there are much more tougher sports than car racing.

As for safety, even professional skiing is now much more dangerous than F1-driving.

The pilot sits in his plane and receives orders from the command centre, the F1-driver sits in his car and receives orders from the pitlane (now much difference here )

[LuckyStrike1]

The pilot risks going into war and being shot down, taken as prisoner and even killed as one ......


a F1 pilot runs the risk of running into Ron Dennis, having to drive under teamorders at Ferrari and speak to Ralf "Whiner" Schumacher

You decide ;)

[alain]

Originally posted by Prostfan
I don't think this can be compared in any way.

As for fitness I think there are much more tougher sports than car racing.

only triatlon and boxing require as much fitness as f1..i think...At least Schumacher said that in an interview back in 1995

Fighter pilots are definately not as fit as fi drivers.A year ago i watched a tv show ,where it explained how much g-force the drivers have to endure.
The comparison was made between fighter pilots and f1 drivers and to my surprise they claimed that f1 is much tougher.

[sennadog93]

Strange comparison but I'll attempt to explain. The fighter pilot will experience much higher G than the F1 driver will ever get to. The pilot can be exposed up to 8 G for short periods of time (say 10 - 15 seconds) which in time terms are similar to F1 but of a greater magnitude. The average person will black out after a few seconds of experiencing 5 G or greater and without training pilots are unable to sustain physical activity for long - F1 drivers don't get near this unless it is in a crash situation. As for the fitness issues, yes, F1 drivers do need to be fitter due to the physical demands on their body but their mental work rate is much lower than that of a pilot - so I would say that a pilot is mentally fitter.

Actually, having said that I can't think of one instance when a F1 driver will be subjected to G forces for 10 - 15 seconds (5 maybe but no more) so to say that the F1 guy is exposed to similar or greater G force is rubbish.

[Smooth]

While it is a complete apples/oranges comparo, there are some similarities. I am not objective as I have an uncle who is a U.S. Navy pilot, and a former fight school instructor at Miramar, California. All of his pilot friends are extremely fit, and highly trained.

Look at it this way: risk vs. reward. A top F1 'pilot' makes millions, a top military pilot might clear $85,000. I find it a bit of an insult to those who volunteer to defend my country with those primadonnas who drive around in circles a dozen and a half times a year, living in exclusive hotels, eating the finest meals and being pampered by expensive personal trainers.

My uncle, and many other pilots, live on a A/C carrier, he shares his 38" wide bunk, in shifts, with three other people, his 'personal space' consists of three 3'x5' lockers (which also hold his personal flight-gear). He eats lunch-room food, and his play time consists of a small arcade and touch footbal on deck. So tell me again how tough F1 drivers have it compared to a military pilot?

[King Sputum]

In fighter there is at least 10 different buttons/controls to handle.

In F1 car there's just wheel, brake, throttle and horn.

=> Flying is much more complicated.

[hook]

I agree with smooth. As far as I know, you can't buy yourself a ride (permanent basis) in a figther plane as you can do it in F1, so, if you want to find a namby pamby wussy boy, you may find it easyer in F1.

[silver]

Well if you have enough money you can fly for example a Sukhoi 27 in Russia. There was once an article on some magazine and it cost around $80 000 to fly Sukhoi 27 from front seat.

[hook]

$80,000 is for one flight?...or the whole season.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike1
The pilot risks going into war and being shot down, taken as prisoner and even killed as one ......


a F1 pilot runs the risk of running into Ron Dennis, having to drive under teamorders at Ferrari and speak to Ralf "Whiner" Schumacher

You decide ;)

Fortunately the risks of war nowdays seem to to be minimal for pilots.Not a single plane has so far been lost in Afghanistan. When did the last 'dogfight' between rival fighters take place? I seem to remember the Iraqis ran away to Iran before the Gulf War started.

[hook]

Not a single plane has so far been lost in Afghanistan.

Ask the Afghans.

[Prostfan]

Originally posted by hook

Ask the Afghans.

Planes are not mentioned in the Koran. So the Taliban used flying carpets...

[hook]

Originally posted by Prostfan


Planes are not mentioned in the Koran. So the Taliban used flying carpets...

[da Silva]

Many of the best Formula 1 drivers started drive karts when they where 4 years old,how many fighterpilots did the same? maybe they started when they was 20 years old.
Based on talent no question. How many fighter pilots comes into
real attacks today? And as some said they risks their lives. Dosen´t all men in the army does so??? and what about the civilians.
Or is a bigger risk in an aircraft than an soldier on the ground?

If you to compaire the two we must talk about in peace time.
One good example is the swedish fighterpilot and roadracing biker Peter Lindén.
He was an fighterpilot in the swedish airforce and raced in the European 500cc series on a Honda
NSR500 during the same time. He became euro champ in the 80´s and last year world champ in endurance racing together with two others on an Suzuki GSX750R.
I think he said at one time that the fighterpilot thing for him was like an job, and winning in roadracing was the real effort.

[BMW FW22]

JPM ones get a lift of a F16 fighter and he liked it...

i don't know it's true but there stood something hee trew his meel out

It was placed in a humoristic context so i don't know it is true..

[HSJ]

F1 drivers are a very select group of people. They have similar talent compared to fighter pilots, but they are the equivalent of the very best Top Gun pilots or what have you. Besides, fighter pilots don't need to endure the incredible stress of PR duties...;)

[holiday]

I think f1-drivers nowadays are pretty pussy-footing around compared to fighter plane pilots. Is it chance that the current World Record in Speeding was achieved by a former Air Force pilot?

Those guys have to have a feeling for moving in the 3-dimensional room, something which is not given easily to humans as mother nature never saw a reason for it until the Wright Bros came up.

Besides, as a fighter plane pilot there is also the slight chance of being hit as the reason of the exercise called war is to kill rather than being killed, whereas a formula1 pilot doesn't have any such worries for the sole exception he is named Alain Prost and happens to drive in front of Senna at Suzuka/Japan.


holiday
PS: Take a look at the motorcyclists. In case of a crash in f1 the suspension may break, in case of a crash in motorcyclism your arms or legs may break. No monocoque there...

[Top Fuel F1]

You need to qualify this question further: How about a fighter pilot landing on an aircraft carrier? Even futher: at night in heavy weather in a very ruff sea.

Rgds;

[hook]

Originally posted by Top Fuel F1
How about a fighter pilot landing on an aircraft carrier? Even futher: at night in heavy weather in a very ruff sea.

You're right, try this: run like hell towards a swiming pool, dive in it, and try to land your nose on a floating matchbox; now try it at night...that's what carrier landing is all about.

[Peter North]

Originally posted by Smooth
While it is a complete apples/oranges comparo, there are some similarities. I am not objective as I have an uncle who is a U.S. Navy pilot, and a former fight school instructor at Miramar, California. All of his pilot friends are extremely fit, and highly trained.

Look at it this way: risk vs. reward. A top F1 'pilot' makes millions, a top military pilot might clear $85,000. I find it a bit of an insult to those who volunteer to defend my country with those primadonnas who drive around in circles a dozen and a half times a year, living in exclusive hotels, eating the finest meals and being pampered by expensive personal trainers.

My uncle, and many other pilots, live on a A/C carrier, he shares his 38" wide bunk, in shifts, with three other people, his 'personal space' consists of three 3'x5' lockers (which also hold his personal flight-gear). He eats lunch-room food, and his play time consists of a small arcade and touch footbal on deck. So tell me again how tough F1 drivers have it compared to a military pilot?

Damn Straight, brotha!

[Don Capps]

Are F1 drivers namby pamby wussy boys compared to Jetfighter pilots??

Yes.

I am merely a rotary-wing type, but thanks to the miracle of modern technology, I have gotten time in flight simulators for most of the fast-movers. If my experiences in the simulators are any thing to go by, Naval Aviators live with one foot in the grave. I had problems at first just trying to find the carrier, much less landing on it! I was not cut any slack and it was not remotely easy. I knew it was hard, but I never expected it to be damn near as impossible as it was. Suddenly flying helicopters didn't seem so hard -- at least the ground doesn't move....

It is not much better in Vipers or Eagles -- running the show while flying the bird, keeping your situational readiness in synch, and just dodging stuff such as SAMs or birds is not as easy as the PC sims would lead you to believe. A bird strike scenario that I ran in the F-15 simulator left me thinking that I was happy I stayed with the Rangers and slow-movers. I once had a bird strike to deal with, but that was when we dropped out of a cloud and our blade collected -- we think... -- a duck or more likely a goose. It was harder on the bird than it was on the blade and nothing much resulted -- formerly living bird pieces on parts of the Slick, but otherwise nothing but a good story. I was reminded that a bird strike at about 500 knots at about 500 feet means your family usually gets your insurance...

For what little my opinion may carry, I think there is a huge gulf between what fighter pilots deal with and what F1 drivers do. Yes, there are similarities, but when a pilot straps on his aircraft he (and his crew if he as a GIB -- Guy In the Back) stands a chance of not being around to update his logbook at the end of the day -- you die just as dead from crashing during a training mission as you do from a combat shootdown. I have lost a few friends in the jet jockey business, everyone one of them during a training mission. Ditto since Viet-Nam for the rotary-wing crowd.

Anyway, just my viewpoint.

[HSJ]

Looks like many of you think fighter pilots' job is more demanding than F1 drivers', or that they are better/fitter/bear more pressure etc. I don't think so. You can't simulate the pressure F1 drivers have. For them it is REAL for YEARS IN A ROW, but for fighter pilots it is almost all simulation, most of them will never see combat. In addition, there are thousands and thousands of fighter pilots, but only 24 F1 drivers at any one time. It would be fair to say what you guys have been saying if we were comparing all formulae drivers in the world vs. the fighter pilots of the world, but you're talking about a select bunch of drivers, the very best who put the pressure on each other. I'm pretty sure that the best F1 pilots would have made the very best fighter pilots if they had gone that way. Just by statistics it should be clear that the average fighter pilot is likely to be less intelligent (applicable to profession), less fit, less determined, and generally less able than the average F1 driver. In F1 drivers we have the peak of the iceberg, so compare at least to the appropriate fighter pilot group.

BTW, I know a figher pilot, and I have had that area as a hobby for years, so I'm not totally talking out of my ass here.

[Smooth]

HSJ: Your theory is crap. There are only 24 F1 drivers currently, because there are only 24 seats. The fact that Thomas Enge could qualify within 107% of Michael Schumacher, in a Minardi blows your 'elite of the the elite' statement out of the water. Second of all: A driver doing it for 'years and years'? There are 16-17 races a year, and 16-17 qualifying events. The rest of the time is testing. Both flying and driving an F1 car are physically demanding, but the mental pressure on a pilot is far greater, far longer. As far as mostly sim time? No, active pilots get far more real air time in a year than most F1 drivers will get in a career.


Intelligence? No comparison. Flying a fighter jet is far and away more mentally demanding, and the education is FAR harsher than what an F1 driver goes through. That you imply the average F1 driver is smarter than the average fighter pilot is about a mile PAST logic.

Less determined? Do you know what it takes to climb through the ranks to become a full-on military pilot? I think you don't.

Add to that the mental toughness of being away from family and friends, and living in harsh conditions while being called on to do your job at any hour of any day compared to an F1 driver who, after a race, is usually back at home that same evening, after being flown home on a private jet while getting a rubdown from a personal trainer. F1 drivers are, mostly, pretty good physical specimens, but comparing their toughness to that of a military pilot is, again, insulting and inaccurate.

[RiverRunner]

What smooth said.
My bro in law flys F-16s and to look at him you would never know it,he's a very big boy and has to run six miles a day to stay at weight,but all the same,he could strap in the best f-1 or marathoner into his plane and have them look like soaking wet ragdolls by the time they climbed out while he would be bone dry and ready to run his daily six miles.
It's a tough tough business flying fighters,as it is staying on top in F-1.
But when it comes to thinking of fifteen things at one time and dealing with them effectively,I'll take the fighter driver anyday.
Right now the bro is sitting in a trailer at the end of a runway sitting alert while DC et al are sunning their bums somewhere.Much tougher to fly high performance airframes.

[holiday]

Originally posted by HSJ
I'm pretty sure that the best F1 pilots would have made the very best fighter pilots if they had gone that way.

Wasn't it DC who was vomiting into his helmet while being on a flight in a fighter plane?
It isn't so long ago, a year or so and I remember DC afterwards admittingly freely to have done so.
Can't detect a trace of eliticism there....