44 replies to this topic

[Vagabond]

I made a quick search and it looked like there were no threads on this particular topic. Quite unexpectedly.

So what do you think about his driving career?

[aportinga]

Berger was one of my favorites so I'll try to remain partial .

I read some where that Berger could have been one on the greats had he not been so cavalier and concentrated on racing rather then woman all the time. I tend to agree with that. Regardless of his career numbers, I think he genuinely had a blast and really gave me something to look forward to every other season. He was a class act with a great sense of humor who was never intimidated by anyone. IMO, his attitude was parallel to the old days of F1 when drivers were there to just enjoy the sport.

I'm very happy that he has found a successful role at BMW/Williams - he certainly deserves it.


And to answer the question...

He was a very good driver who could have been great!

[MortenF1]

Berger was great! He did really good against Senna! I am too young to remember that many of his races with McLaren, but he drove great races right up to his retirement-year, after all he won in Hockenheim '97, on a weekend his father died.

[Arrow]

Berger in his prime was one of the best drivers behind the big 3 of the late 80s and early 90s.At times he pushed senna and he was able to win races in a variety of cars something not many have been able to do.I think he was very good at his best.

[BMW FW22]

Berger rulezzzzzzzz

[Rediscoveryx]

Berger was treendously talented and in the mid-80's he showed an enormous potential, similar if you wish to that of Juan Pablo Montoya.
I think he could definately have been WDC if the circumstances were right, but unfortunately, they never were. With the exception of 1990 he never drove for the best team on the grid.

[Zeus]

I'd say the others have it right. He is definitely one of the true NICE GUYS to ever pass through the F1 ranks, and appartenly a sentimental favorite of many, for sure one of mine.

I would rate him on a level with DC. When Berger was on, he could simply check out of a race. Nobody could touch him, and his incredible win at Hockenheim 97 was a perfect example of that. I don't think he has in his nature the bottomless, cut-throat determination that is required to be a WDC like Senna and Schumacher. To be on that level, you need a 100% commitment to racing in all aspects of life, and you need to be ruthless, and you need to take risks. IMO, that's not the kind of person GB is. That's way we love him! (he had plenty of talent, he just wasn't willing to put racing ahead of everything else)

I too was thrilled to see him stay in the sport, and I support all success of Williams-BMW for no reason other than his involvement.

[Simioni]

Berger lacked consistency, which was mostly a result of his laid-back attitude. But on his day he was nearly unbeatable, and surely good enough to win a championship if Prost and Senna weren't around. It's a similar story to DC's, but Gerhard never got to sit in the best car except arguably in 1990. He drove an excellent 94 season, and his dominating last win when he was 37 was a sign of how good he really was.

P.S. damn Zeus I wouldn't even had bothered to post if I had noticed yours first

[AgRacer]

He was also the best practical joker in F1

[aportinga]

Although I do understand the comparison, I feel that Berger was far better a driver then David Coulthard.

He was also the best practical joker in F1

Amen brother!

[MortenF1]

Hmmm, far better than DC you say. Well, Berger did good against Senna, and Hakkinen too did good against Senna, so.... Not the deepest of analysis, I know! Did Berger manage to outqualify Senna? I don't remember, but I can imagine him being one of the few to ever have done that. Hakkinen, as we all remember, outqualed Senna on his first outing, although by a margin as slim as 0.048 secs. And, a friend of mine told a story 'bout Berger throwing Senna's suitcase off of a plane once! Haha! And I seem to recall Berger having said something like this: ".....These days, all the girls are on the wrong side of the fence!"

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by race addicted
Hmmm, far better than DC you say.

He's letting his enthusiasm for Berger get the better of him IMO.

Well, Berger did good against Senna, and Hakkinen too did good against Senna, so.... Not the deepest of analysis, I know! Did Berger manage to outqualify Senna? I don't remember, but I can imagine him being one of the few to ever have done that. Hakkinen, as we all remember, outqualed Senna on his first outing, although by a margin as slim as 0.048 secs.

Berger managed to pole in the same car and in a different car when Senna was alive. The guy was quite fast.

The_Z_Man

[MortenF1]

That doesn't surprise me at all! If anyone, Berger was an obvious candidate. But on which circuit was this, and by what margin did he outqual him?

[orange]

It was very tasty , I prefer Mac to B4U and I like it with lots of cheese on it ..
Opps you meant Berger and not Burger

[peru-f1]

After 1986-1987, I thought that Berger was a "future" WDC. However I think that 2 things worked against him:

1. After his big shunt at Imola 89 I believe that he lost "something".

2. Being Senna's team-mate at McLaren was a very difficult thing, as I don't think that he was able to surpass the Brazilian.

Somebody rated him as DC's equal and I think it is a fair compairison.

[MortenF1]

To answer my own question, Berger outqualed Senna twice in 1990. In the first race of the season (must have left Senna shattered!) at Phoenix, and in Mexico. Brilliant!

[aportinga]

To answer my own question, Berger outqualed Senna twice in 1990. In the first race of the season (must have left Senna shattered!) at Phoenix, and in Mexico. Brilliant!

Oh GOD - I HAVE MEXICO ON TAPE AND IT'S A AWESOME RACE!!!

Nigel Mansell & Gerhard Berger on the last lap alone provided for some of the greatest racing in GP history!

[MortenF1]

You lucky bastard! I HAVE to get the season review from that year, and the previous year too!

[george baird]

Better than most of the clowns in F1 nowadays.

[Vagabond]

Berger spent his last a few years in F1 teaming with Jean Alesi. Why did nobody mention this? How about comparing their driving, technical, racing, etc. skills?

[Chrissy Boy]

Berger was smoother, and faster! And had a far better taste in women!

[senninha]

GB = RB

A future WDC wich was destroied by Tamburello corner ...

In 90, he could finished the season behind N. Piquet's Benetton !!

But i liked him.

[colejk]

Berger was definitely a charger. Unfortunately he raced against the likes of Prost, Senna and Mansell. Tough competition those days.

He never was the same after his crash at Imola. But before that, he was quite fast.

[ebe]

Obviously, I have to disagree with most of the posters in here.

Berger was a 'would have', 'could have' person.
He never looked like a 'tomorrows' champion, and he did not good against Senna.

In the race he was not focused enough - he sometimes (but too often) made mistakes.
Mistakes which seperate the good ones from the sosos. Mistakes which cost him wins.

Sure, he was a friendly guy, a joker, a nice boy, a mediocre F1 driver, who never came close to being a great.

[SennasCat]

I always believed that Berger was born in the wrong time. He had the misfortune to have Senna as a team-mate and there was Piquet, Prost, Mansell and Rosberg all pretty much on song (although Rosberg retired at the end of 86). Quick, gutsy but a bit too laid-back for total domination. Also remember he had a huge one at Tamburello in about '89 or so, car went in hard, caught fire, burned his hands. He was also lucky to get into F1 because he had broken his neck in a road car accident not long before his test with Benetton. Fortunately the guy following was a top surgeon and saved him from life in a wheelchair.
Funny guy, laugh a minute, according to urban myth also superglued a photo of a black man's bum over Senna's passport photo. Senna was apparently unaware of this until he went through customs.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by Zeus
I would rate him on a level with DC. When Berger was on, he could simply check out of a race. Nobody could touch him

I would rate him above DC.Berger in his prime was never as consistently mediocre as DC has been.
The only time he had a car comparable to DCs best,he had senna as team-mate but he still did ok.He always pushed and sometimes beat senna at suzuka a track DC is horrible at,and was almost as good as mansell in 89.

[Indian Chief]

Berger is probably at DC or RB's level - good drivers, but lacking the little bit that separates them from WDCs.

But unlike those two, he was able to accept that he would never win a WDC, and had much more fun.

[Zawed]

My favorite all time driver actually. In the late 80s he probably was 3rd or 4th best out there, after Prost, Senna and maybe Mansell. He did'nt do too badly against Mansell when they were teammates, considering his Tamburello crash that year. But after McLaren he was'nt as good as he could have been, and I get the feeling he realised he was'nt going to be a champion and stopped giving 110%, and started driving more for the money. But he was still capable of some outstanding drives...Hockenheim 94,97, Monza 94, Adelaide 94. At the end of the day, considering his equipment, he should have gotten more wins than he did.

[CZM]

I'm a big Berger fan. He reminds me in many ways of James Hunt.

Any more detail on his practical jokes

[jmcgavin]

A very good driver...certainly looked like a future champ in 86. Ironically considering they were team-mates for so long I think he made the same mistake as Alesi in going to Ferrari rather than McLaren. I don't think he then got the support needed to make the transition from a driver who is capable of winning a few races to a driver capable of putting on a sustained bid for a title, but blindingly quick when he was on a good day.

As for practical jokes:

Throwing Senna's briefcase out of the window of the helicopter they were travelling in.

[palmas]

Originally posted by Chrissy Boy
Berger was smoother, and faster! And had a far better taste in women!

Ana Corvo will thank you for this one!

[aportinga]

I always believed that Berger was born in the wrong time.

Well said Mr. Williams!

I could not agree more! Someone also mention that he resembled James Hunt - Yes indeed!

Of course there are a few posts I totally disagree with - placing Berger on par with DC and especially Rubens??? Obviously some people did not see Bergers entire career. But that's ok I guess.

[Scudetto]

Another one of Berger's famous deeds (I'd hardly call this a "joke"), was when he and Alesi were mates at Ferrari in 95. Alesi and Berger needed to get over to Fioranno for some testing and "borrowed" Jean Todt's car to get there. Upon arriving in the paddock, Berger yanks the parking brake and send's Todt's car into a barrel roll, coming to a rest on the roof. A tarp was thrown over the car while the boys went testing. Todt was not too pleased following the session.

[Vagabond]

Steve Williams,

What's the story about Berger's broken neck? Do you have detailes on it?

[senninha]

Originally posted by ebe
Obviously, I have to disagree with most of the posters in here.

Berger was a 'would have', 'could have' person.
He never looked like a 'tomorrows' champion, and he did not good against Senna.

In the race he was not focused enough - he sometimes (but too often) made mistakes.
Mistakes which seperate the good ones from the sosos. Mistakes which cost him wins.

Sure, he was a friendly guy, a joker, a nice boy, a mediocre F1 driver, who never came close to being a great.

Agree.

But not mediocre.

GB = DC = RB

[flyer72]

Berger was really good. Sadly he put financial interests before his racing, Frank Williams tried to hire him several times but they couldn't agree on the pay! Berger is another Alesi, someone who could have done really well if they had chosen to drive for different teams!
At least Berger is still in F1!

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
according to urban myth also superglued a photo of a black man's bum over Senna's passport photo. Senna was apparently unaware of this until he went through customs.

[taran]

As has been said already, Gerhard Berger was a very nice guy with an eye for the ladies....

However, those are not the qualities that make a f1 star, just ask Jean Alesi or Eddie Irvine!

Gerhard was a traditional hotshoe with unlimited bravery and a heavy foot. What he lacked was a talent or aptitude for the technical side of racing which became more and more important in the late 80's. As proven at McLaren (and at Ferrari unfortunately) Gerhard couldn't set up a car to save his life, a trait he shared with Jean Alesi, no doubt one of the reasons they were such good friends.

As Gerhard himself said, joining McLaren in 1990 and seeing what Senna did, showed him howmuch a top driver had to do. He tried but simply lacked the insight to become as good as Senna or Prost. And with those two also monopolising the best cars, noobody not in the same league had a chance against them.

As a driver, Gerhard indeed belonged to the second division. Very fast and capable but not someone who could lift a team beyond its level or easily manage a championship season. Not unlike several other top drivers in this division: Rosberg, Mansell, Alesi, Alboreto, Boutsen.

In 1997, he won the German GP in dominating style and the team said:"Bloody good but why can't the *&@#%@ drive like that all the time!"

Somehow that sums up Gerhard Berger the driver best..... :

[Louis Mr. F1]

regarding the broken neck accident, it happened in 84 before he entered F1. It was a road accident. As he drove across a bridge, there's a drunk driver coming from the opposite direction, accident happened and i think Berger's car was fallen to the river. He was saved but with a broken neck. He said driving on a race track is safer than driving on the road.
i hope i remember this correctly.

[Vagabond]

Thanks, Louis.

Originally posted by taran
...Gerhard couldn't set up a car to save his life, a trait he shared with Jean Alesi, no doubt one of the reasons they were such good friends.

[Zawed]

Originally posted by taran
As proven at McLaren (and at Ferrari unfortunately) Gerhard couldn't set up a car to save his life, a trait he shared with Jean Alesi

I disagree with that statement, I believe Berger was one of the better test and development drivers around. At McLaren in 1991 he did the majority of the pre season testing while Senna was in Brazil. One of the reasons Ferrari hired him back in 93 was to assist with the technical rebuilding of the team, since Alesi was'nt considered to be a strong car developer.

[taran]

Originally posted by Zawed


I disagree with that statement, I believe Berger was one of the better test and development drivers around. At McLaren in 1991 he did the majority of the pre season testing while Senna was in Brazil. One of the reasons Ferrari hired him back in 93 was to assist with the technical rebuilding of the team, since Alesi was'nt considered to be a strong car developer.

Belief is a funny thing. Most people believe God exists although there is NO proof to substantiate it, just blind faith....

At Ferrari, Bernard said Michele was the better developer but Berger was the faster driver. At McLaren, Senna did all the important stuff. Berger and the hordes of test drones (Palmer, McNish, Johansson etc.) were confined to engine and reliability tests. Time and time again, Senna would spend 3 months on the beach, while Berger & Co tested the car. They would declare themselves happy...Then Senna arrived, lapped 1.5s faster and said the car was ****, forcing a major development drive to improve it....

In 1993, Berger was hired so Ferrari could assimilate his knowledge about McLaren procedures concering race strategy, debriefs and what he knew about the new active system etc.

After Prost, Ferrari realised they were working to a 70's drum while McLaren had discovered the rocket age....To close the gap, they paid Berger $12m to come back eventhough he could have stayed at McLaren. But Berger had realised he was never going to beat Senna in the same car over a season, so he returned to Ferrari. As he himself said:"The money is better, girls like Ferrari drivers but they don't know McLaren, and perhaps Ferrari/Barnard will build a fast car."
That kind of spells out his priorities.....

[Alfisti]

Amognst teh press in the paddock he was known as Gerhard "Burglar" because he commanded a high slaary for doing very little. he was good and deserved his place but nowhere even close to "great".

[heki]

Gerhard or Georges?

(Georges Berger mid 50ies drove two GPs for the Simca-Gordini team)


Gerhard had a great sense of humour, Ayton learned a lot from him...

as far as racing...
he was soooooooo unlucky...

I remember Heinz Prüller's (ORF comentator) praiers when Gerhard was coming to the pits (mid 90ies-Gerhard driving for Ferrari)... something like: OMG, what do you have in bag for this stop?

[Darren]

Pretty good truck driver. Really. He owned his own trucking company and did long-haul stints for a while.