25 replies to this topic

[Rediscoveryx]

Did Senna ever use this phrase or is it just a myth? And if he did, when and why did he use it?

[Wolf]

Rediscoveryx- I think he used that phrase when he run into Eddie Irvine and slapped him on the face... After the track incident.;) I belive that Eddie was pointing out to him that he was also involved in blocking faster carson the track, to which da Silva responded with those words... I belive I've read whole description of the said incident(s)- 1 on the trac and 1 in the pub or something here on Atlas... I wish I could remember where, tho...

[holiday]

But I'm Senna

Well, he was quite right about that, wasn't he.

[holiday]

Originally posted by Wolf
Rediscoveryx- I think he used that phrase when he run into Eddie Irvine and slapped him on the face... After the track incident.;) I belive that Eddie was pointing out to him that he was also involved in blocking faster carson the track, to which da Silva responded with those words... I belive I've read whole description of the said incident(s)- 1 on the trac and 1 in the pub or something here on Atlas... I wish I could remember where, tho...

The verbal exchange between them reads as follows:
Senna : What the **** do you think you were doing?
Irvine : I was racing!
Senna : You were racing? Do you know the rule that you're supposed to let the leaders come by when you're a back marker?
Irvine : If you were going fast enough, it was no problem.
Senna : I overtook you! And you went three times off the road in front of me, at the same place, like ****ing idiot, where there was oil. And you were throwing stones and all things in front of me for three laps. When I took you, you realised I was ahead of you. And when I came up behind Hill, because he was on slicks and in difficulties, you should have stayed behind me. You took a very big risk to put me out of the race.
Irvine : Where did I put you in any danger?
Senna : You didn't put me in any danger?
Irvine : Did I touch you? Did I touch you once?
Senna : No, but you were that much from touching me, and I happened to be the ****ing leader. I HAPPENED TO BE THE ****ING LEADER!
Irvine : A miss is as good as a mile.
Senna : I tell you something. If you don't behave properly in the next event, you can just rethink what you do. I can guarantee you that.
Irvine : The stewards said "No problem. Nothing was wrong."
Senna : Yeah? You wait till Australia. You wait till Australia, when the stewards will talk to you. Then you tell me if they tell you this.
Irvine : Hey, I'm out there to do the best for me.
Senna : This is not correct. You want to do well. I understand, because I've been there I understand. But it's very unprofessional. If you are a back marker, because you happen to be lapped ...
Irvine : But I would have followed you if you'd overtaken Hill!
Senna : You should let the leader go by ...
Irvine : I understand that fully!
Senna : ... and not come by and do the things you did. You nearly hit Hill in front of me three times, because I saw, and I could of collected you and him as a result, and that's not the way to do that.
Irvine : But I'm racing! I'm racing! You just happened to ...
Senna : You're not racing! You're driving like a ****ing idiot. You're not a racing driver, you're a ****ing idiot!
Irvine: You talk, you talk. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Senna : I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Irvine : Yes. I was battling with Hill.
Senna : Really? Really? Just tell me one thing. Who is supposed to have the call? You, or the leader of the race who comes through to lap you?
Irvine : The leader of the race.
Senna : So what have you done?
Irvine : You, you were too slow, and I had to overtake you to try to get at Hill.
Senna : Really? How did I lap you if I was too slow?
Irvine : Rain. Because on slicks you were quicker than me, on wets you weren't.
Senna : Really? Really? How did I come and overtake you on wets?
Irvine : Huh?
Senna : How come I overtook you on wets?
Irvine : I can't remember that. I don't actually remember the race.
Senna : Exactly. Because you are not competent enough to remember. That's how it goes you know.
Irvine : Fair enough. Fair enough. That's what you think.
Senna : You be careful guy.
Irvine : I will. I'll watch out for you.
Senna : You're gonna have problems not with me only, but with lots of other guys, also the FIA.
Irvine : Yeah?
Senna : You bet.
Irvine : Yeah? Good.
Senna : Yeah? It's good to know that.
Irvine : See you out there.
Senna : It's good to know that.
Irvine : See you out there ...


Irvine continued to prevaricate with Senna, giving obtuse answers until Senna’s South American temperament took hold and he landed a punch on Irvine before he stormed out.Appearing to turn away Senna then turns back and hits Irvine with his left hand. The blow lands on the right side of Irvine's head. Irvine loses his balance and falls off the table. Senna is still shouting as he is hustled towards the door. Irvine yells : Insurance claim there!
Senna (leaving) retorts : You got to learn to respect where you're going wrong!

[bobbo]

Sounds like a "Monty Python" script . . .

Bobbo

[Wolf]

Yeees, I've seen that one... Thanx holiday. I think this conversation speaks volumes...;) I don't rate Eddie very highly in the grand scheme of things, but he did OK that day. Both on and off the track.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Senna was mostly correct in theory, but he sure was a jackass

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by bobbo
Sounds like a "Monty Python" script . . .

Bobbo

I guess: John Cleese -in "Fawlty Towers" mode- as Senna and Terry Jones as Eddy Irvine?
(vice versa would be interesting too, and then we have the Graham Chapman variation as well...)

[Wolf]

Are there any rules regarding unlapping oneself, Ross? For all Eddie knew, Senna and Hill could've had the arrangement that da Silva stays behind Hill and block Eddie, or just plain sit there like Coulthard behind Bernoldi... And I don't think it was unprudent move either

[Wolf]

No way Scheivlak- Palin as Eddie... And maybe Jones as da Silva- dressed as a housewife (naturally).;)

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Wolf
No way Scheivlak- Palin as Eddie... And maybe Jones as da Silva- dressed as a housewife (naturally).;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Lapped cars are given a little bit more error room on an oval, where the likelihood of a full course caution to get him his lap back is very high. On a road course the rule pretty much is when the leader comes up behind you, game over. Its an written rule, and it goes both ways. You definately dont try to re-pass him, though instances where its even possible are rare. It'd be slightly different though if it was like a wet race and you were on wets and the leader was still on drys. In that kind of situation id hope the leader would be smart enough to let you go.

[Rediscoveryx]

But did he actually use that phrase?

The reason why I'm asking is because it was presented as evidence in one the AtlasF1 court cases without referring to any source

[Wolf]

Ross, Yor description somewhat resembles those 'The Devil' bicycle races... Every few laps, the Devil comes and 'takes' the last driver in the field... 'cept in Your vesion it's the race leader.;) As for rare opportunities of unlapping- Eddie had one and went for it.;) It's the leaders option how should he race, but if his pace (because of prudency or whatever) becomes too slow, I expect no less from other drivers than not to be influenced by his decision and even unlap themselves given the chance. And, being a Moss fan, I will not hesitate to bring up his races when he was delayed by troubles of a sort, but continued to dive as hard as was his wont, unlapping himself on a few occasions (sometimes taking back a couple of laps in one race, although I wouldn't swear on this one).

[Rediscoveryx]

And what about Jimmy Clark at Monza in 1967?

[SennasCat]

My recollection is that Senna did really say it. Can 't remember the year, probably c.1989, Adelaide Grand Prix. Interview with Jackie Stewart, Stewart points out to Senna that he has had much more accidents than any previous world champions. Senna spat out "BUT I AM SENNA', Stewart kept winding him up and he stalked off from the interview.

[William Dale Jr]

Well, I've got a transcript of that interview, and I'm pretty sure that it didn't contain Senna saying that. I haven't got it close at hand, but being a Senna fan, if it had been in the transcript I probably would remember...

EDIT: The interview took place in 1990, after Senna rammed Prost at Suzuka.

[Witt]

The transcript that holliday posted makes me wonder if Senna did infact complain about Eddie to the FIA, and in doing so, he had enough credibility to convince the FIA to put Eddie in their bad books. So come Brazil 94, when Eddie was originally banned for one race for 'causing' the crash, Senna got his revenge when the FIA made it a three race ban after Eddie Jordan tried to appeal the one race suspension. Come to think of it, Eddie Irvine being solely responsible for that crash with Jos Verstappen and Martin Brundle is very debatable, perhaps it was Senna himself who dobbed Irvine in? Senna being the only World Champ in F1 at the time must have had a lot of influence. Any thoughts on that?

[SennasCat]

I am also a Senna fan, but not a FANatic. I wonder if anybody has the transcript of Senna when he went off at Suzuka on the PA system there, with lots of four and seven letter words, and the FIA nearly took his superlicence off him (or is this just the recollections of a near senile F1 fan?)

[mikedeering]

I know the Senna quote appears on the back of Richard Williams' "The Death of Ayrton Senna". I will check my copy when back home for the full wording and context. I think it related to someone suggesting he was dangerous on the track, but can't recall who and when.

As for the 93 incident, you have to recall the full details - Senna mentioned backmarkers in the post race interview, he said some were very unprofessional. He didn't mention names. Someone in the Jordan relayed this back to Irvine, who responded along the lines of "I don't think much of Senna". This of course got back to Ayrton, further irritating him. At this point though, he had no intention of seeking out Eddie.

However, Ayrton then bumped into Berger, who with Karl Zimmerman offered some schnapps to Senna and suggested (mischieviously) that Senna should have a word with Eddie. Senna, pumped out after the race and not a regular drinker, followed their advice and when to the Jordan pit. He didn't even know who Irvine was! So they had their debate, Eddie's responses dind't please Ayrton, so he lashed out. Those who witnessed the scene suggested it was more of a push than a punch.

[fines]

Whatever, it still showed a lot of his character, or rather lack of it.

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by mikedeering
I know the Senna quote appears on the back of Richard Williams' "The Death of Ayrton Senna". I will check my copy when back home for the full wording and context. I think it related to someone suggesting he was dangerous on the track, but can't recall who and when.

The book doesn't give the time and place that the comment was made but this is what's written in the book.

Sometimes, when he was explaining why he had just squeezed Prost into the pit wall or tried to run him off the road, he could sound like a prize hypocrite. There can be no denying that he did more than anyone to bring crude dodgem tactics to Formula One, his initiative rendered relatively risk-free by the fat rubber tyres and immensely strong survival cells of the current cars. Had Fangio and Moss and Hawthorn, in their frail, spindly, unprotected vehicles, tried such things as regularly went on between Senna and Prost and Mansell, they would have killed themselves straight away. So Senna was able to change the mood and style of the sport, with consequences that outlived him: as the best of his time he became, for good or ill, the example for ambitious young drivers to follow.
Nor was his defence always guaranteed to win the heart of the sceptic. Once, while arguing with somebody who had done something he didn't like, he was told that he too had been known to block an opponent or two in his time. 'But I am Senna' he said. Which sounded preposterous until you thought about it. He was indeed Senna, and the cultivation of humility in his working life would not have taken him to the places he found. And for all the occasionally dubious nature of his intimidatory manoeuvres, it also has to be said that on many occasions his sheer brilliance deformed the behaviour of his competitors, which could hardly have been held to his account.

[Buford]

Senna and Dale Earnhardt were similar in that they both had the talent not to drive in the rough house, boneheaded manner they sometimes did, but they chose to go ahead and do it anyway. And the officials consistantly caved and did nothing about it where they would have had it been most anybody else. That's why I never liked either one of them. Though I was shocked and saddened when they left us and realized I had seen unusual talent in their times.

I think both of them, and their tactics, have influenced younger drivers to drive in the reckless and stupid manner they often do today. That is one reason I find racing so much less interesting than I did all my life. OTOH, I may have just gotten old and cranky.

[Gary C]

I think, Buford, you've hit the nail on the head with that last comment of yours.

[Gary C]

Sorry! NOT the one about being old and cranky!!!

[fines]

Originally posted by Buford
Senna and Dale Earnhardt were similar in that they both had the talent not to drive in the rough house, boneheaded manner they sometimes did, but they chose to go ahead and do it anyway. And the officials consistantly caved and did nothing about it where they would have had it been most anybody else. That's why I never liked either one of them. Though I was shocked and saddened when they left us and realized I had seen unusual talent in their times.

I think both of them, and their tactics, have influenced younger drivers to drive in the reckless and stupid manner they often do today. That is one reason I find racing so much less interesting than I did all my life. OTOH, I may have just gotten old and cranky.

Couldn't agree more!

[and maybe, just maybe, the last sentence does apply to me as well, even though I'm only 34... :]