54 replies to this topic

[William Hunt]

Hi everyone , some time ago I asked the people from the excelletn website F1 REJECTS if they could possibly include Paul Pietsch and they said they will consider putting him on the site, sin't that great news.

Paul Pietsch was a very interesting charachter. He (especially his wife Ilse) played a large role in the downfall of Achille Varzi when they were teammates at Auto Union. Paul continued to race until after WW2. Does anyone remember some stories about Paul or Ilse Pietsch ?

[Michael Müller]

"F1 Rejects - A tribute to those who didn't make the grade" - in my opinion the wrong place for Paul Pietsch, who had a long and rather successful career during the 30s and 40s.

[William Hunt]

There's a lot of people in it who were superb drivers. But they are allowed on it if they only score no more than a couple of points in th F1 World championship. And Paul Pietsch only entered 3 GP's in the '50s and never scored a point.

Besides although he was quite an active driver and member of the famous Auto Union squad, I don't consider him as such a great driver.

[Vitesse2]

William - I suggest you read the reports of the 1939 German GP!!

[Kuwashima]

Hmmm... I suppose I might add something here

I suppose I agree 50% with Michael and 50% with William!! It is true Pietsch was quite successful in the 30s and 40s, and certainly doesn't deserve any 'reject' moniker.

But our site has evolved to be less about the less talented, and more about detailed profiles of those who fulfill the criteria. And at the end of the day, Pietsch had 3 starts in Championship Grand Prix racing, which is 3 more than Tom Jones, or Masami Kuwashima

So can we get back to info about Pietsch, please??
I'd love to know more, and hear some stories about him!!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by William Hunt
.....Paul Pietsch was a very interesting charachter. He (especially his wife Ilse) played a large role in the downfall of Achille Varzi when they were teammates at Auto Union. Paul continued to race until after WW2. Does anyone remember some stories about Paul or Ilse Pietsch ?

I want to make it completely clear that Paul Pietsch had absolutely nothing to do with Varzi's addiction to morphine. The above statement is a very unlucky choice of words, a total misunderstanding or intentional misrepresentation. Ilse Pietsch was possibly involved to a minor extent, it was however Varzi who decided to stick with morphine. He was not a stupid man and knew about the dangers. It was also Varzi who decided to be a chain smoker. It was he, who started an affair with Ilse Pietsch. It was he who picked his cars. He was a responsible person with some weaknesses.

When fifteen, Paul Pietsch drove a license-free motorcycle and with 21, he won his first race on a Bugatti. He was 26 when he drove for the famous Auto Union team, driving their 16-cylinder rear engine grand prix cars. He preferred to race as a private driver and achieved his best result in a major event at the 1939 German Grand Prix, where he came third. After the war, he went into the publishing business with German motoring magazines, which has now become the Motorbuch Verlag, a large publishing house. In 1950 he started racing again, with a F-2 Veritas RS, winning in 1951 the Eifelrennen and became German F-2 champion at age 40. At the 1951 German Grand Prix, Alfa Romeo gave Paul Pietsch a chance to race once again a grand prix car, the Alfetta. I watched as Pietsch spun his Alfetta through the air out of the Nordkurve, near the grand stands. I thought he was dead but he survived after only minor bloodletting. Pietsch kept racing his Veritas in 1952 and tried a Maserati in 1953, but decided not to race this one since it was too poorly prepared. This was his last race, after which he devoted his time towards his publishing business, which became a very successful business.

Born 20 June 1911 in Freiburg, in the famous German Black Forest region, his parents moved to Neustadt, where he saw his first auto race when thirteen. His father died early in 1925 and his mother, who had taken over the brewery business, sent him away from home to a strict boarding school in Baden-Baden. That is where he started driving a 200cc Wanderer motorcycle working his way up to a 1000cc Neumann Neander when he received his trade school diploma. To get him away from the motorcycles, where he already had dangerous escapades, his mother gave him a 30 hp DKW sports car. With Age 20, Paul inherited a considerable amount of money from his deceased father and put into effect his long-standing plan to become racing driver. He bought from the Bugatti factory the formerly Heinrich Joachim von Morgen Bugatti T35B, chassis number 4948, with 2.3-liter 8-cylinder engine, giving 140 hp. His first race took place 1932 in Wiesbaden, where his engine stopped prematurely while leading, because of an empty fuel tank. He participated in 11 more races during that year, winning the 4 km runs of the Sudeten Mountain Climb and at Litomerice in Czechoslovakia.

For 1933, he replaced his Bugatti, with the faster Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 Monza. He had planned for his calendar 16 races on ice, regular circuits and mountain races, of which he achieved six first places. At the last race of the year, at the Masaryk race, he had a minor crash. During 1934, Pietsch started with his Monza, now with 2.6-liter engine, in another mix of 13 circuit and mountain races. He had to interrupt his season for two months with a broken leg after he crashed at the Gabelbach Mountain Race. But he finished five times in first place. For 1935, he was hired by Auto Union to drive their grand prix cars. But he never was one of their top drivers and was given only four rides, his best result being third place with Bernd Rosemeyer at the Italian Grand Prix in Monza. During the year his teammate Achille Varzi started an affair with his wife Ilse Pietsch, which ended in Paul’s divorce. Auto Union did not renew Paul’s contract for 1936 and he was without a drive. He retired from racing and moved to Munich in Bavaria to manage a car dealership. But he did attend some races, however as spectator, and at the German Grand Prix he met Laszlo Hartmann, who drove a 6C-34 Maserati. Pietsch made an agreement with him to buy the car for the following season.

In 1937, he started again as private driver with the 270 hp, 3.7-liter, 6-cylinder Maserati 6C-34. Pietsch entered in six events, of which his best result was winning the minor German Hohensyburg race in a borrowed 2-liter Alfa Romeo sports car. At the Masaryk Circuit, he seriously crashed during practice and just pure luck saved his life. After spinning the Maserati at over 200 km/h in the left hand turn after the Start-Finish, the car’s tail hit a telegraph pole with undiminished speed. At the impact Pietsch was ejected from the cockpit, flying over a medium tree and landing 30 meters away in a swampy meadow. He remained unconscious for two days and needed several months to recover from the severe concussion of his brain, contusion of his spine and many other injuries but no fractures. The German Racing-Doctor Gläser had attended to him after the crash. The totally demolished car had burned out. Paul Pietsch needed a new drive for 1938. After he had recuperated from his severe crash, he made an agreement with the Maserati factory to drive one of their 150 hp 4CM 1500 and the 165 hp 6CM voiturettes. He even moved to Bologna in Italy, where he rented a hotel room. The factory was to maintain his car. From the ten races he entered during 1938, he won the Heat 1 of the Prix de Berne and came second at the Coppa Acerbo, his best results of the year.

During 1939, Pietsch entered a total of 11 races. The first seven were voiturette events, of which his best result was a win in the Voiturette class at the Kahlenberg Mountain Climb at Vienna. The German Grand Prix on 23 July was to be his greatest race. Paul Pietsch and Luigi Villoresi drove for the Maserati factory, which arrived with two of their 3-liter 8-cylinder Maserati 8CTF grand prix cars, delivering 350 hp at 6000 rpm. The Mercedes and Auto Unions in comparison both developed 485 hp each. But Paul Pietsch had been eighth fastest during practice and placed the Maserati on the third row of the starting grid amongst the Auto Unions. The circuit was still wet after the start when Lang took the lead from von Brauchitsch. It was raining at some parts of the circuit. As they completed the first lap, Hermann Lang was in first place; 27.3 seconds ahead of Manfred von Brauchitsch and H.P. Müller and right behind the Auto Union followed the red Maserati of Paul Pietsch in fourth place, then Caracciola and Nuvolari. On the second lap, Pietsch passed Müller and von Brauchitsch and had just Lang 53 seconds ahead of him. At the end of lap two, the spectators could not believe their eyes when Lang, who had led the race for two laps, pulled into the pits. Then came the red Maserati and passed the line in first place; Pietsch was leading the German Grand Prix with Nuvolari’s Auto Union right behind him. Lang lost two minutes having his plugs changed but pulled into the pits again at the end of one more lap to retire the car at the end of lap three. Pietsch did not stay in the lead for long and at the end of lap three Nuvolari was first with Pietsch a close second, followed by Müller and Caracciola. Stuck has to retire on the circuit, others have to stop for plugs at the pits. Pietsch encountered front brake trouble and soon had to stop at the pits. Because it had started to rain again, the temperatures had fallen and spark plugs started to oil up causing the engine to misfire. At the stop, spark plugs were changed. The Mechanics tied two metal strips over the radiator grill, so less air would come through the radiator opening, raising the engine temperature. But Paul Pietsch had to stop a second time, to have the spark plugs changed again. Although most of the German cars retired for one reason or another, Pietsch drove a strong race and finished third after Caracciola and Müller. Paul Pietsch had said that the 1939 German Grand Prix had been his best race.

[Michael Müller]

I mentioned already in another thread that I cannot understand that for much people Grand Prix racing started only in 1950, ignoring that the wheel has been invented much more earlier. More than 20 years of active Grand Prix racing count nothing, because 2847 more or less useless statistics show only 3 starts at post-1950 WC events. The same with poor Clemente Biondetti, a top driver in the 30s, but only one unlucky start with his Jaguar-Ferrari special at Monza 1950. Luckily such big drivers like Nuvolari and Caracciola never entered any of the early WC races, otherwise the post-1950 statisticians would list them as "rejects"!

[William Hunt]

I agree with you. In fact dear Mr. Müller the '30s is my favourite era, it has some of the greatest drivers ever. I especially like Bernd Rosemeyer a lot.

Edited by William Hunt, 05 February 2010 - 04:16.

[William Hunt]

Indeed I didn't choose my words carefully Hans.
However I was hoping to trigger some replies like yours and I'm glad U replied. Your posts are always extremely learnfull and interesting to read. THANK U Hans for writing such a great post for us !

[Chico Landi]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Pietsch kept racing his Veritas in 1952 and tried a Maserati in 1953, but decided not to race this one since it was too poorly prepared. This was his last race, after which he devoted his time towards his publishing business, which became a very successful business.

Hans, sorry if I got it wrong, but Pietsch never raced the Maserati in 1953? In Stefan Ornendal's F2 site, it stands that he raced the Maserati A6GCM at the Eifelrennen (30th of may). Can you confirm this?

[McRonalds]

...and Paul Pietsch was the first German driver to reappear in F1 after WW2 in the Italian GP 1950. His career was shortcut after the war and he frankly admitted that he was not that fast driver he was before. Here he is... with a MASERATI

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Chico Landi
…..Pietsch never raced the Maserati in 1953? In Stefan Ornendal's F2 site, it stands that he raced the Maserati A6GCM at the Eifelrennen (30th of may). Can you confirm this?

One more time Paul Pietsch puts on overall and helmet. For the ADAC-Eifelrennen on May 31, 1953, the Team Ruggieri from Italy entered two Maseratis for the Neustädter (Pietsch) and the Siamese Prince Bira. However, the cars arrived only in the last minute. Pietsch: ”There were not even different jets for the carburetor – everything was unprofessionally prepared. This was finally the point when I decided to give up racing. Possibly this negative experience with the chaotic appearance of the Ruggieri team was exactly what I had still needed to realize this step.” (Source: Mike Riedner in the book Doppelsieg.)

It is possible that Pietsch drove this car during practice on Saturday, May 30 but I don't know that. I admit that I have rather little information from 1950 onwards, so maybe others know what transpired that weekend. Possible something about that event was written once for the 8W contest and is hidden now in their huge files? It is definitely worth the time to look there <http://8w.forix.com/home.html> because you always find something interesting - mostly several things. Check under Back Track and look at their very helpful 'Index to 8W'or 'Previous Games'.

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by Michael Müller
Luckily such big drivers like Nuvolari and Caracciola never entered any of the early WC races, otherwise the post-1950 statisticians would list them as "rejects"!

But we have Hermann Lang - 2 starts, 2 points and Raymond Sommer - 5 starts, 3 points

[Richard Jenkins]

I don't know that Paul Pietsch's possible inclusion into the F1 rejects site is a bad thing, it will allow many people generally to learn a bit more about this fantastic driver. Just look at the calibre of the people there (Dalmas, Biondetti etc.) I got round to reading a lot of German magazines lately & they still mention Pietsch in passing, especially now he is in is 90th year, still in fine nick. They breed 'em to last a long time back them (von Brausitsch, Kling, Schmeling (the boxer), & Pietsch all 90+, all doing very well)
He would have been someone who would've benefited from no World War Two, in my opinion, he was rapidly developing as a top crafted driver & now of course, one of the few survivors from the golden age, he is someone I admire greatly.

[Dennis David]

Of course the cuckolded Paul Pietsch also became a very successful businessman after the war.

[Wolf]

Ritchie- I respectfuly disagree (it's better than to disrespectfuly agree, I guess ;)). Even though it sheds more light on the man, and attracts more attention to him by 'average' fans- being labeled a not so complimentary thing as a 'reject' will prolly do more harm than good to his reputation. And I don't think that we in TNF should endorse dismissing man's GP record only because he didn't make it in the WDC/F1 era. Should we dethrone Ascari, because he wasn't F1 but F2 champion?;) Besides, with a man who has achieved as much as he did- maybe Kuwashima or somebody should ask the man himself whether he would trade in being called a reject for some spotlight...

[William Hunt]

I think he should be included on the excellent rejects site and so should Lang. The site gives a great carreer overview on each included driver and let's be honest : there's a lot of drivers on that site who aren't rejects at all.

But including these 2 great drivers will allow a lot of people to get to know them better. Besides if they would read it and view the carreer summary than they can easily deduct that these drivers aren't rejects at all. I would certainly include them.

[William Hunt]

Besides the F1 carreers of Paul Pietsch and Herman Lang weren't long or succesfull since it was only called F1 since 1950, before that it was called F.Libre, GP or Formula A cars so that makes them valid candidates for the F1 Recjects site.

[Michael Müller]

I'm getting the impression that the argumentation about who can be called a "F1 reject" is loosing ground and argumentation. To make it clear, the "F1 rejects" site is a fine and interesting one, but it's not okay to throw great drivers of the pre-1950 era into the same basket than really "rejected drivers". What are we talking about? A site place where one can publish articles, scripts, and pictures about certain topics of our mutual leisure activities? Free web space to make available information about one's own favourite driver, constructor, car, team, track, or event to the public? There are countless possibilities to do so, and if somebody really does not know where to upload his work, I am ready to offer free space here http://www.axos.nl/retrorace.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Michael Müller
.....if somebody really does not know where to upload his work, I am ready to offer free space here http://www.axos.nl/retrorace.

Thanks for the offer, Michael.

[Takahashi]

My word, what a Pandora's box our site has opened on this thread!

Like my colleague Kuwashima above, I agree with both the lines of sentiment expressed thus far. The two strands of thought here reflect the sort of dilemmas both Kuwashima and myself sometimes go through in choosing which drivers to profile, which drivers to save for later (because there are more obvious candidates), and which drivers to avoid profiling altogether.

As most of you good folk have graciously acknowledged, the name 'F1 Rejects', although perhaps a touch harsh on face value, is in fact tongue-in-cheek, and established usually with a fair amount of sympathy and a sense of recognition for the drivers and teams we profile. Most of the drivers we have profiled have in fact been supremely talented and successful away from World Championship F1, and in our profiles we have endeavoured to highlight this fact.

Most of you will also have noticed that the majority of the drivers we have thus profiled are from the 1980s onwards. This is partly because we are simply more familiar with this period, and because there is more freely available information on drivers of this era.

But it is also because we're looking at F1 from a contemporary perspective. In the last few decades, F1 is basically about the World Championship, and about F1 cars at the top of a clearly-defined, well-structured 'ladder' from FFord to FRenault to F3 to F2/F3000 etc. The World Championship has not been about different classes of machines competing in the same race, nor about a few selected events amongst a bevy of non-championship races.

Which makes potential 'reject' drivers of the 1950s especially difficult for us. We have no first-hand memories of this period, and the sheer existence of the pre-WC period and non-championship races take away from the relative importance of World Championship entries. Since for us the term 'F1 Reject' is only very very rarely used as a term of derision, but usually as a term of appreciation almost, we don't necessarily have a problem with calling a driver with an impressive pre-WC or non-championship record as such; what we do have a problem with, and what has stopped us from focussing on the 1950s, is to try to look at 1950s F1 from a 1980s onwards perspective. It simply can't be done.

Then why have we included Biondetti? This was an individual case: we wanted to highlight the real first Jaguar involvement in the World Championship.

Can I also point out that our so-called 'two point' criterion is simply a cut-off to determine a pool from which we select our subjects. Even if they fulfil this criterion, we may choose not to profile them after all. We think about several factors in making that choice, and in respect of 1950s drivers, the dilemma we face has been clearly spelt out on this thread.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by William Hunt
....Paul Pietsch only entered 3 GP's in the '50s and never scored a point....
....I don't consider him as such a great driver.

It is correct that he was not one of THE greats. The main motivator for Pietsch to sign up with Auto Union was the urging by Hans Stuck whom he befriended during their mountain racing years. Paul Pietsch had this to say about his move: “In my racing career I have made probably two great mistakes. First I went to Auto Union and second not to Mercedes-Benz.”

In their search for new drivers, Auto Union conducted driving tests in October 1934 at the Nürburgring. They invited 12 candidates, all were top German sports car and motorcycle drivers, and had two Auto Union GP cars available. First the aspirants drove the 6 km South Loop. The following day action took place on the 22.8 km long North Loop, after which the team ended up with a group of six drivers, of which Pietsch was the fastest on both circuits with Rosemeyer also very impressive. They finally decided on Rosemeyer and Pietsch as junior drivers for 1935.

Rosemeyer was a kind of cheeky fellow and probably got along better with the sullen team manager, Willy Walb, than Pietsch might have done. Rosemeyer was allowed the fourth car at the Avusrennen and after Leiningen (temporarily) quit the team thereafter, a third driver was needed. Rosemeyer got again the nod at the following Eifelrennen, where he passed Caracciola in front of the grand stands, went into the lead, demonstrating his skill for all to see in his battle with Caracciola. The rest is history, as the saying goes. This I assume is the reason why Rosemeyer was made third driver instead of Pietsch. But we don't know that for sure. As junior driver Pietsch had a thankless job: to bed in tires and brakes, which was done below racing speeds. He also was expected to take over a crippled car from one of the lead drivers and nurse it home.

About Pietsch leaving Auto Union, is states in Peter Kirchberg's AUTO UNION book that Pietsch severed his ties with the Zwickau team out of personal reasons. At the end of 1935, his wife lived together with Varzi, an affair, which had started at the 1935 German GP.

[Wolf]

I hope not to have spoken out of order in my previous post, but seeing the reaction to it, I may have left the wrong impression... My post was not intended (in any way, direct or indirect) to belittle the efforts put by Kuwashima and Takashi or fruits thereof in their site, which I enjoyed visiting on quite a few occasions. And I have no doubts whatsoever that they go about their 'subjects' with both sympathy and espect... Hell, I'd like to be able to drive F1 car as fast as Taki Inoue, and he's supposed to be as bad as they get.

I must say that my sympathy for Pietsch is (apart from having learned of false accusations re. Varzi/morphine affair, courtesy of Hans, IIRC) having seen him on AMS TeFau being asked to compare his career to the one of Michael Schumacher. I must say that the placidity with which he took so ridiculous and stupid question was humbling expirience... I would've punched the friggin' journo!

The intentions in my post were to show that cutting off pre-WDC period might do more harm to driver's careers, and that I belive Pietsch (and Lang and Biondetti, for that matter) neither by virtue of their GP racing record nor skill belong in the lineup with people like aforementioned Inoue...

I'd like to appologise to both Kuwashima and Takashi if they found my post offensive in any way, either to them personally or their work.

[Takahashi]

Don't worry Wolf, no offence ever received

Part of what I wrote was in fact to agree exactly with what you say ... judging pre-WDC drivers by WDC results is unsatisfactory indeed ...

Thanks for the nice things you said about our site, and now, if I may, let's hear more fascinating stories about Herr Pietsch!

[Marcel Visbeen]

In his Achille Varzi biography 'Una Curva Cieca', Giorgio Terruzzi claims that Paul Pietsch was the publisher of Alfred Neubauers 'Manner Frauen und Motoren'. That would have been the primary reason for Neubauer to give Paul and Ilse Pietsch the nicknames of Lil and Peter in his book.

It is common knowledge that Neubauer didn't let the facts interfere too much with his stories, but this would be another reason to doubt his version of the story of the love affair between Achille Varzi and Ilse Pietsch-Hubach.

Can anyone confirm that Pietsch was the original publisher of Neubauers book?
My old German edition has 'Deutscher Bucherbund' as publisher and I cannot find a connection between Pietsch and this firm.
Maybe he aquired the rights to the book later through his 'Motor Buch Verlag'?

[Vitesse2]

'Deutscher Bucherbund' was a book club, producing authorised reprints at reduced prices for members only, which eventually grew into the Holtzbrinck Group:

http://www.holtzbrin...kel/778435&s=en

The original publisher of Männer Frauen und Motoren was Donauland of Vienna. I have seen a much more recent hardback reprint, but I can't trace who published that - it may have been Motor Buch Verlag (or not).

[Bjorn Kjer]

It was Motor Buch Verlag.

[Marcel Visbeen]

Thank you for that Vitesse, it's very helpfull information.
At the moment Donauland and Motor Presse Stuttgart (which Pietsch co-founded) seem both to be part of the Bertelsman Group.
But I cannot trace since when the firms are connected and if Pietsch was involved with Donauland at the time of the release of Manner Frauen und Motoren.
Do you know when it was first published? My copy doesn't have a date.

[Marcel Visbeen]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
It was Motor Buch Verlag.

You mean the publisher of the recent version Vitesse mentioned, I guess?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen

Do you know when it was first published? My copy doesn't have a date.

1958. I've also found a paperback edition published by Heyne of Munich in 1959. The Deutscher Bucherbund edition seems to date from 1962.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Yes Marcel , my comment in post 27 was a confirmation to Vitesses post 26 .

[raceannouncer2003]

My copy of "Speed was my Life" (1960) says "First published in German 1958, under the title 'Manner, Frauen und Motoren' by Th. Martens & Co. GmbH. Verlag Munich."

Vince H.

[Hugo Boecker]

The first edition of Neubauers book was in 1958 by HAns Dulk Verlag Hamburg. At all is was a compilation of a sequel published in German Magazin "Quick". Both have NO connections to Pietsch.
The Motorbuch Verlag published a second edition of the book in the 70's.

[Marcel Visbeen]

Thank you all for your input in clearing this up for me.
I found it hard to believe that Pietsch would have been involved in the publshing of the book, since on several occasions he explained that a lot of the facts in Neubauer story are false.

[Gabrci]

Gentleman, does anyone happen to have a good quality photo of Mr. Pietsch? Pre- or post-war, anything would be great. Thanks a lot in advance.

[Benji79]

I will have to ask my Granddad, he's comming up 92 but going strong. I think he met him once when he was working as a young reporter sometime just before the war. He mentioned something once, but maybe I am confuse this with another driver. I ask and then post here,

[Gabrci]

Sounds awesome, really looking forward to it!

[cdrewett]

Gentleman, does anyone happen to have a good quality photo of Mr. Pietsch? Pre- or post-war, anything would be great. Thanks a lot in advance.

There are a couple of nice photos of Pietsch in Chris Nixon's book Racing the Silver Arrows pp 64-66.
Chris

[Gabrci]

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately I don't have the book, and I think asking for scans is not a smart thing around here

[Jop Zwart]

Just Google and you'll find lots of pics of Herr Pietsch.

Cheers,

Jop

[D-Type]

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately I don't have the book, and I think asking for scans is not a smart thing around here

It's not a question of being "smart" or not "smart" it's a question of obeying or disobeying the law of copyright. As a reputable company, Autosport who own this website must obey the law.

A private individual setting up a website as a hobby or as an ego trip can risk breaking the law as a sensible owner of the copyright of a picture or a document will probably not find it worthwhile to take legal action against a "man of straw".

[Vitesse2]

In his post above, Hans mentions that Pietsch rented a flat in Bologna. Surprisingly, I've found an Italian press reference to him racing with an Italian licence during 1939: that would probably explain why he never turned up at Albi that year.

[Gabrci]

It's not a question of being "smart" or not "smart" it's a question of obeying or disobeying the law of copyright. As a reputable company, Autosport who own this website must obey the law.

A private individual setting up a website as a hobby or as an ego trip can risk breaking the law as a sensible owner of the copyright of a picture or a document will probably not find it worthwhile to take legal action against a "man of straw".

The e-mail protocol is a great innovation, you might find it rewarding to learn using it.

(Mr. Pietsch's company are fortunately a bit more flexible than that as they kindly sent some excellent photos for personal use.)

[David McKinney]

And you can't see the difference between me emailing you an image for your personal use, and you posting it on a website?

[Gabrci]

And you can't see the difference between me emailing you an image for your personal use, and you posting it on a website?

I don't think anyone wanted to post them on any website.

[D-Type]

Gentleman, does anyone happen to have a good quality photo of Mr. Pietsch? Pre- or post-war, anything would be great. Thanks a lot in advance.

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately I don't have the book, and I think asking for scans is not a smart thing around here

The e-mail protocol is a great innovation, you might find it rewarding to learn using it.

(Mr. Pietsch's company are fortunately a bit more flexible than that as they kindly sent some excellent photos for personal use.)

I don't think anyone wanted to post them on any website.

I see no mention of e-mail, e-mail address or "PM me and I'll send you my e-mail address". Your first two posts certainly infer you are asking someone to post a picture here..

I appreciate that English is not your first language, but courtesy is international.

[Gabrci]

I see no mention of e-mail, e-mail address or "PM me and I'll send you my e-mail address". Your first two posts certainly infer you are asking someone to post a picture here..

No, they do not make any reference to the channel at all.

I would have thought that members of this forum are intelligent enough that if they want to send something to another member, but don't want to publish it, they will find a way. I still think virtually all of them are.

I must say this level of pedantry and complete lack of humour is quite entertaining.

[Gabrci]

It shouldn't go unnoticed that Paul Pietsch, the oldest living Grand Prix driver, celebrated his 99th birthday on Sunday. Many happy more bdays Herr Pietsch!

[Richard Jenkins]

I make it that Paul Pietsch is 100 today (20th June).

[Tim Murray]

Thanks to Arttidesco, who lent me the book, I'm currently enjoying the generally excellent biography of Enzo Ferrari by Richard Williams. There are a few silly errors, though, and I'm wondering if this is another: Williams states that Paul Pietsch was 'a member of the Porsche family'. I've never heard this before. Is there any truth to this, or has he got his Pietsch confused with his Piëch?