16 replies to this topic

[marion5drsn]

DTM-German Touring Masters. Does anyone know where on the net the rules for this series is listed? I believe the drivers are fugitives from NASCAR. The thing I am looking for is the engines in the Opel and where is it made. Is it the same as the Cadillac engine or what? M.L. Anderson

[Enkei]

www.dtm.de

[ehagar]

DTM is a tightly controlled formula to ensure costs don't get out of hand, like with what happened to the ITCC.

Here are some of the regs as of 2000, According to November 2000 Racecar Engineering:


Engine Regs:

4-stroke, 90 deg V8 engines max displacement 4 litres
Min bore dia 93 mm
Min bore pitch 98 mm
Min weight complete engine 165 kg
All air to engine must pass through two 28 mm air restrictors
No internal engine maintenance or spec upgrades during season
All engines must be sealed prior to start of season

Chassis

Cars based on two-door, four seat front engined saloon road car model, of which 10,000 units have been made
Production steel bodies, no composite materials for structural purposes
Rear wheel driven
Min 1000 kg weight excluding driver

The Cars (not reliable figures, 2000 as well)...

Audi TT: Stated Power 430 bhp @ 7500 rpm 480 NM (Misprint?) @ 6000 RPM
MB CLK: Stated Power 450 bhp @ 7500 rpm 600 NM @ 6000 RPM
Opel Astra: Stated Power 450 bhp @ 7500 rpm 600 NM @ 6000 RPM

The air restrictors limit the power quite a bit. THe Opel Engine shares some common parts with the GM IRL V8 engine.

My understanding is that the Audi was rushed in 2000, so it is probably signifcantly better now.

So they are lighter than NASCAR cars (1550 kg or something) and because of the air restrictors, less powered.

[30ft penguin]

Originally posted by ehagar
My understanding is that the Audi was rushed in 2000, so it is probably signifcantly better now.

IIRC the Audis were not works supported, there were only private entries (Abt team), and the Opel cars had some serious design flaws - which is why the Mercedes cars looked that good. I never watched the series that closely, though, so I could be completely wrong there

[marion5drsn]

For these cars to move like that is truly remarkable, especially when taking the 28mm restrictors into the formula. 28mm (x2) is only 1.102 inches on the inside diameter. This calculates out to only 1.909 square inches. Not much when considering what other engines in other classes are using. It makes me wonder just how well the Inside Diameters are streamlined? Now if we can just get the drivers to not emulate the NASCAR drivers that rubbing is racing we might have something going.
Hooray for the mechanics!

Thanks for the information! Yours M.L. Anderson

[Option1]

It's always a shame that over the last few years there's only been 2 or 3 makes competing. It's nearly as bad as the touring cars in Australia (only 2 makes) and no better than NASCAR, in that sense.

I love watching the DTM races (apart from the unbelievably boring English language commentator - he's the world's greatest cure of insomnia since Perry Como), but wish at the very least that BMW was there as well.

Neil

[marion5drsn]

Option1, you are right about the announcer but at least he doesn’t shout and get excited like some of them. It sounds as if he announces from an off track position. I am like you as I consider them far better than NASCAR even tho they are just stock cars. More stock than NASCAR and that’s a certainty. Anyway they are on a road course. They also have the advantage of independent front and rear suspensions. Now if we could get BMW and
Ford in there that would make it a more complete series. Yours M.L. Anderson

[ehagar]

Originally posted by marion5drsn
More stock than NASCAR and that’s a certainty.

Don't be fooled. Nothing stock about these cars... DTM cars are purpose built race cars that have no commonality with their production cars when it comes to the chassis. It was considered counterproductive from a competitive standpoint to do so.

However, some parts, such as production panels for the roof, side, and doors must be the same shape as the production cars... The wheelbase and overhangs are similar too...

The idea was to have stronger brand identification than with the NASCAR templates, which if the stickers and grill were removed, would all look the same in the distance.... So some allowances had to be made to dimensional rules. I believe the Audi TT's wheelbase is under the reg requirements.

I would call NASCAR more stock because there are way more limitations!

Too bad BMW iosn't interested. Some M3s would look cool on the grid... But last I remember Gerhard Berger stated they were more interested in Touring Cars & the Le Mans effort. I wonder with the new GT engine restrictions, he will change his mind.... after all, DTM is becoming more international...

[biercemountain]

I watched the final race from Hockenheim the other night. One of the cars flipped and you could see the undertray. (no one got hurt) Nothing stock about it. It had a huge venturi tunnel for ground effect.

I agree that the commentator is boring but the racing is pretty good. Too bad all the races I've seen have been dominated by Mercedes.

BTW: Based on the drivers names I've heard, I would say the drivers are all fugitives from F1, not NASCAR. (Hmmmm maybe Jeff Gordon could change his name to Jorg Garthen and go road racing)

[Jordan fan]

I love the DTM, it is my favourite racing series in the world, pity i can't get to see alot of it here in the UK without sky tv. I don't know what commentator you are all talking about, but the guy who does the Channel 4 Highlights program of it (presented by Will Hoy, who also does the 'Brundle' commentary alot of the tiime). The main commentator guy for this is quite good, no murray, but who is?

In 2000 the Opel was very competitive, and ran the Mercs close, but for some reason dropped right back in 2001 (was something to do with either suspension or tyres, or both i think even).

Also the Audis as someone said before are a total private entry, the cars are prepared by the Abt Sportsline team, ran by the Abt brothers (one of them also drives one of the cars). They had big problems in 2000 on the other hand, with regs, and were allowed to break a few body regs (rear spoiler/overhang/wheelbase i think, also possibly the diffuser thing on the back. Becuase they were competing with 2 rich works teams and using a very difficult base car, they had problems, but did a brillant job and really took it to the Mercs for alot of 2001.

The Opel though has the most powerful engine, on the speed traps on all tracks, it is a good 3-4 kph quicker than the Audi, and even more faster than the merc, sometimes even as much as 10 kph, but it is **** on every aspect of cornering.

I would also LOVE to see BMW run in the DTM, I love the M3 road car, and I would love to see them enter an M3 GT in the DTM. They could, because of all the hassel they got for the M3 V8 GT3 car, I thought that they should quit that series, and use that GT3 M3 in the DTM (they would have to change things of course, but the basics are there)

Also I would like too see other manufacturers enter, perhaps Ford (Cougar), Volvo (C70) are two, also possibly some Japanese manufacturers, but it would be hard to atract them i admit.

I hope next year will be a good year for the series, Alesi signing can only help the series.

[Option1]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
If you think DTM is good.... you have to see the V8Supercars,
"The best Touring car championships in the world".


oh, and did you mean to start a new thread???

I'd rate the DTM above the Oz "Supercars". At least the DTM has 3 makes of cars going round and the cars themselves are more interesting than the Ford and GMH dinosaurs.

I have a feeling he didn't mean to start a new thread and I only looked in here because I wondered what a thread about an Apprehended Violence Order was doing in the RC. :

Neil

[Richard Jenkins]

The fact that Schenider, Wendlinger & now Alesi are in the DTM next year, amongst so many others, makes it, IMO, one of THE series to watch, possibly more than a dying CART series & arguably F3 & F3000.

[MONTOYASPEED]

Your avatar will be possible just in your dreams Jordan ;)

[MortenF1]

DTM is much better than the V8 supercars, I agree! But I too would like to see more manufacturers presented, and as DTM get's more attention(?) than BTCC, maybe it will be possible to lure some Japanese makers into it.

[Flying Panda]

I will not doubt that DTM is better, (Though i cant imagine anything better than the best ), But I cannot judge what I have not seen....

[ehagar]

Ahhh.... but Aussie V8s have Bathurst!

I think the DTM cars are much nicer looking than the Aussie cars, but the quality of the racing in both series are very good. The Aussie cars have quite alot of power.... 620 bhp?!? Holy s$it! DTM is about 480 bhp.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Jordan fan
I love the DTM, it is my favourite racing series in the world, pity i can't get to see alot of it here in the UK without sky tv. I don't know what commentator you are all talking about, but the guy who does the Channel 4 Highlights program of it (presented by Will Hoy, who also does the 'Brundle' commentary alot of the tiime). The main commentator guy for this is quite good, no murray, but who is?

Its not on Sky TV,but if you can lay your hands on some second hand analogue satellite gear its live and FREE on the German ARD/ZDF channels.