
The Ford GT40
#1
Posted 07 January 2002 - 03:13
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#2
Posted 07 January 2002 - 03:57
#4
Posted 07 January 2002 - 05:14
#5
Posted 07 January 2002 - 05:41


http://www.pistonhea...stones/gt40.htm
They just sold one at the barrett/jackson auction last year and had a nice shot of one.
Thanks for the memory. The GT40 and Ferrari 250GTO - what a great era!!!
#6
Posted 07 January 2002 - 06:47
Originally posted by jondoe955
A most beautiful car!If I remember right, they took a Lola/Eric Broadley design, designed an engine in 90 days and threw a ton of money into beating Ferrari (hadn't they try to buy Ferrari and failed?). I read here that it was the engine sound used for the mustang in 'bullit'. Just under 40" high. And Ford is somehow connected with a GT40 concept car?
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http://www.pistonhea...stones/gt40.htm
They just sold one at the barrett/jackson auction last year and had a nice shot of one.
Thanks for the memory. The GT40 and Ferrari 250GTO - what a great era!!!
The Ford GT40 was not a Lola GT Coupe as many believe. Broadley was involved early on and the car shared some of the same ideas, borrowed a few from the 1962 Mustang I Prototype (the car that launched the Ford GT program) but it was a unique car all to itself in the end. Broadley's tenure at Ford Advanced Vehicles didn't last very long. Ford had Roy Lunn and a few of their engineers from the Mustang I Prototype project involved with the GT40 project and I think he was upset that some of his ideas weren't used. The engines were a part of a continuous process of gaining more horsepower at that was already in place with the Shelby Cobra project. Yes, it was a great car.
Sidenote, Ford is thinking about relaunching a new Ford GT40 in the future with a estimated price tag at $100,000. The new GT40 is on the cover of this month's Car and Driver magazine.
#8
Posted 07 January 2002 - 06:58
This is not true. Shelby played a big role in subsequent GT40 marks (especially the Mark IV) but he had nothing to do with the original as far as I know.
#9
Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:30
#10
Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:42
#11
Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:52
#12
Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:58
Originally posted by dmj
It's not the only mistake in that article, part about Ken Miles is also crap, but it was an interesting read anyway...
I have heard two different stories about the 1966 Le Mans race. One was that Miles was ordered by Ford execs to slow down to enable a 1-2-3 photo finish and McLaren didn't get the message and drove past Ken's car for the win. The other was the same scenario but Ford ordered Ken to slow down to allow the McLaren/Amon car to win, since Ken had won Daytona and Sebring. I have more info to back up the first account because I found a quote from Carroll Shelby (who was the team manager for those cars) acknowledging that he really F-----d up the communication on that one and regretted it later as Ken died in a crash not long after this race and he would have been the first driver to win endurance trifecta Daytona-Sebring-Le Mans.
Then to make matters worse, there was speculation that the race finish was too close to call and so the McLaren/Amon car was awarded the win since they started behind the Miles car and had travelled the furthest distance. Which I have seen pictures of the race finish and Amon's car appeared to passed the start/finish first way before Miles's car, so it shouldn't have been in debate.
#13
Posted 07 January 2002 - 13:01
I can look it up if they say something about that. I cant remember it really.
What i do remember is the onboard GT40-footage of the car around LeMans in 66 ;) Wonderfull!.
The sound is really cool too.
Btw, Wyer had a ride in the first GT40 around LeMans cause he didnt beleive his drivers when they said that the chassi flexed at high speeds, and that they could spin the wheels at topspeed.
So, Wyer got a ride around the track, and at the long straight, the driver showed how the chassi flexed by setting his hand thru a big gap in the car.
Wyer said to the driver to keep concentrating on the driving, and then *FLOP* the front loose on the car and Wyer almost had to change underwear

It was something about the car making to much downforce at the front, or if it was to much lift at the back of the car. Anyway, it wasnt aerodynamic balanced. It got changed later.
I will look at the tape tonight, and write down everything!.
#14
Posted 07 January 2002 - 13:12

#15
Posted 07 January 2002 - 17:00
Originally posted by Mike Argetsinger
I can attest to the fact that they were driven on the road during their "hay-day" in full race trim. I was arrested in one in June of 1967 on the New York State Thruway while exceeding the posted speed limit by an even 100 mph. And I was only clearing the plugs.

I believe the Mk. III was spec'ed for road use...
#16
Posted 07 January 2002 - 17:34
Originally posted by Viss1
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I believe the Mk. III was spec'ed for road use...
You are correct that the Mk3 was designed for road use. But the car I am referring to - that I put several thousand road miles on (and some fast laps on the Watkins Glen circuit as well) - was a Mk1 in full race prep - it was an out and out race car - Don Frey wanted to prove it could be driven on the road - and it could - sort of - with the gearing that it was in it top speed was 185 mph - although that day on the NY State Thruway I was only touching 165 - just clearing the plugs you see - I never drove a Mk3 but it is my understanding that they were slightly tamer.
#17
Posted 07 January 2002 - 18:54

#18
Posted 07 January 2002 - 19:17
#19
Posted 08 January 2002 - 21:15
As well, my book on the GT Fords -- The Inside Story of the Fastest Fords -- has just been republished by Mercia and is widely available.
Seems to me to be relevant!
All the best for the new year!
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#20
Posted 08 January 2002 - 21:33

The GT40 was and still is one of the best examples of form not necessarily following function. The sleek and muscular lines are still eye catching to this day.
The story of Henry II trying to buy Ferrari out and then resorting to building his own cars to "steal" away the championship and win Le Mans is one of the most intriguing stories in modern day motorsports.
Some interesting tidbits....
The Ford GT-40 is so named due to it's overall height of 40 inches.
MK-I
The first GT-40s, the MK-Is, were designed after Eric Broadley's Lola prototype, resident in England.
They were powered by a variety of engines.
Among the many engines available in the First GT-40s:
A 255 indy 4-cam
289 small block
302 small block
and into 1968 and 1969...
351 Windsor
The 289 was the most popular of the blocks, and was designed to develop between 380 and 400 horsepower for 24 hours (how convenient!).
MK-II
The second GT-40s were aptly named the MK-IIs and were also built in England.
Engines for the MK-II include:
Exclusively a NASCAR 427 (not the cammer).
These are the cars that won at Daytona, Sebring, and Le Mans in 1966.
MK-III
Along comes the third generation, the street-able MK-IIIs.
Hmm, I guess they only built 7 of these ones.
Engines:
All had 289s in them.
The MK-IV
There were 12 of these built by Kar Kraft in Michigan.
Engines:
All 427s.
These were American cars and an American team won the 1967 24 hours of Le Mans. It was a two man team of Dan Gurney and A. J. Foyt driving MK-IV serial number J-6.
This is the last model that was offered by Ford.
The number 6 car was driven to the closest Le Mans victory to date in 1969 by Jacky Ickx, despite being outdated. Chassis number 1007 is currently owned privately in France. The car took part in the 24 hours of Le Mans in 1966, 67, and in the Targa Florio and Monza races in 1966. It also has been driven by Jo Schlesser, Henry Grader, Richard Atwood and Ines Ireland.
I've got a friend here in town with an ERA replica with a Holman Moody 289 and weber carbs that's really cool.
#21
Posted 08 January 2002 - 21:36
#22
Posted 08 January 2002 - 21:40
GT40 is REBORN!. Look here http://autoshow2002....iclesFord2.aspx
COOL!. Not like the original, but it looks like it

#23
Posted 09 January 2002 - 11:10
I think it's the only copy I've seen - does anyone know the provenance or validity of this?
Part of it is ''typeset'' monospaced on a typewriter. It also briefly charts the ''Evolution of Ford Motor Co experimental and sports prototype vehicles'' from ''Mustang 1'' to ''Ford Mk IV''.
On a tangent...
Also, is it right to refer to the Mk. IV as a ''GT40'' ? Everything I've seen and read suggests that it's an entirely different machine in most respects. I'm prepared to ''flamed'' for this if I've misunderstood somewhere, but I can't see them being any more closely related than, say, a McLaren M26 and a carbon-chassied McLaren MP4... (Be gentle with me... I'm still new around here...)
#24
Posted 09 January 2002 - 12:15
The American teams won in 1966 and 1967, and if that weren't enough for Ferrari privateer teams won the next two years for good measure.
Ferrari never did win Le Mans after 1965 and judging by how much they invest in F1 and how much it costs to win Le Mans, I would say that will be true for some time (though I still think that the 333SP might have won in 96 had it not had problems, Van de Poole set fast lap).
#25
Posted 09 January 2002 - 19:23
GT40's Forever!!!
#26
Posted 10 January 2002 - 09:09



#27
Posted 10 January 2002 - 09:30

Don't send the man out on cold tires. The 333SP was pretty quick that year, though in reality the victory would have been a Dallara/Ferrari, as Dallara builds the 333SP. (though its always been known as the Ferrari 333SP).
#28
Posted 10 April 2003 - 17:44
"This is perhaps the right time to correct certain widely held misconceptions about the Ford GT40. The first is that it was a thinly disguised and only slightly modified version of Broadley's Lola GT. Nothing could be further from the truth....The Lola GT was a simple concept which set a trend and for which Eric Broadley is entitled to great credit...But the GT40 was an original concept and by contrast with the simpicity of the Lola GT it was extremely sophisticated and, for its purpose, over-engineered"
I haveleft out some sentences which I don't think alter his meaning.
I am not concerned with the technical similarities or otherwise between the GT40 and the Lola, but with Wyer's statement that the GT40 was extremely sophisiticated and over-engineered. He is writing here about the early cars, not the J-Car and the Mark 4s.
I always thought of the GT40 as an essentially simple design, even by the standards of the time. Can anybody enlighten me?
#29
Posted 10 April 2003 - 18:03
Originally posted by Roger Clark
I always thought of the GT40 as an essentially simple design, even by the standards of the time. Can anybody enlighten me?
I think what he was probably referring to was the aerodynamics of the early versions. The Ford engineers I think were too enthusiatic about putting their styling concepts on the car (which grew from the Mustang I prototype concept car, to clay models, then to the first versions), that they overengineered themselves. The first version had to undergo a nose change because, if I remember right, made it unstable at high speed. They did experiment with wings on the front fender but that didn't solve the problem.
#30
Posted 10 April 2003 - 19:56
While not an authoritative work on the subject, very worthy nonetheless.
Alas, no longer in print.

#31
Posted 10 April 2003 - 20:06
http://members.iinet...s_1969_UkF1.wmv
It is a lap of Le Mans , 1969 aboardt a Ford GT40.
It is part of a video included in the free CD that comes in the Motorsport magazine.
Hope you like it as I did.

cj
#32
Posted 10 April 2003 - 21:59
Originally posted by Joe Fan
I think what he was probably referring to was the aerodynamics of the early versions. The Ford engineers I think were too enthusiatic about putting their styling concepts on the car (which grew from the Mustang I prototype concept car, to clay models, then to the first versions), that they overengineered themselves. The first version had to undergo a nose change because, if I remember right, made it unstable at high speed. They did experiment with wings on the front fender but that didn't solve the problem.
I think all this is more appropriate to a bunch of garage owners thn the seond largest car company in the world - quite the opposite of the point Wyer was trying to meet.
#33
Posted 10 April 2003 - 22:15
The fact that Ford swallowed the disappointments and set-backs and kept funding the hiccuping programme came as a major surprise to the practical racers such as Eric Broadley.
He was aghast when Ford engineering policies dictated construction of a steel monocoque chassis as opposed to the aluminium monocoque 'pure racer' he espoused. Relations were particularly bad between him and Roy Lunn of Ford, whom the Brits in Ford Advanced Vehicles nicknamed 'Captain Queag' after the self-defeatingly loony autocratic central character played by Humphrey Bogart in 'The Caine Mutiny'...
In purebred motor racing terms Eric was right, they were wrong. The fact that Ford's people stuck to their guns and constructed ways of salvaging corporate pride and 'image' was a tribute to sometimes uncharacteristic American tenacity, but through 1964-65 the Ford GT programme caused us endless mirth.
John Wyer had patchily impressed with Aston Martin but he was never in truth as much a race management genius as the publicity - and in many respects his own self-image - happily assured us. He always had excellent management, logistics and engineering people around him who subsequently papered over some of the cracks his own autocracy created.
It all worked - eventually - but in the early period it was, as I say, and as many, many prime participants have confirmed to me...a costly joke. And one that Mr Ferrari HUGELY enjoyed....'til he got his come-uppance.
DCN
#34
Posted 10 April 2003 - 22:52
I think that many parts of motor racing history are like that. While we may get all misty-eyed about the things that once took place and the people who made them happen, there were more than just a few times and places where it wouldn't have stood up to the legends that we hold dear.
Standing alone from this, of course, are the drives that have gone down as miracle performances...
#35
Posted 10 April 2003 - 23:34
The Ford exectcutives wan't a dead heat in 66, but were told that this would not be allowed. So the decision was taken by them that McLaren/ Amon would win, as they had been the most dedicated team players among the drivers and were largely responsible for the victory. Again, the organisers had stated that as Mclaren/ Amon had started further back, that if the leading cars crossed the line together M/A would be declared the winner.
I preferred the Mk4 to the GT40, nicer nose. But nothing compared to a Ferrari P4.
#36
Posted 11 April 2003 - 00:41
Originally posted by rdrcr
Carlos,
Thanks for link to the great in-car video clip, even though it took a while to download - and that's with broadband. The lap around Le Mans in Peter Sadler's GT40 was really something. Cool narratives by Elford, Amon and David York too.
It sounded like a 427 to me...
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Richard,
Yes, I should have mentioned it´s a 18 MB download; but well worth it.
I never did answer your last couple of emails,sorry about that; all i can say is



Alas , I can understand your desire to return it to it´s original conception.
Congrats
Carlos
#37
Posted 11 April 2003 - 02:04
Originally posted by Doug Nye
Qute right Roger - in period the fumbling, bumbling, top-heavy Ford GT programme was regarded in the UK as being run by a bunch of over-confident, self-regarding, pompous legends-in-their-own-minds who over-engineered their car and dropped repeated and often palpable clangers.
Who were these "legends-in-their-own-minds" ? And what were the "palpable clangers" ?
It reads like a description of BRM.
The fact that Ford swallowed the disappointments and set-backs and kept funding the hiccuping programme came as a major surprise to the practical racers such as Eric Broadley.
He was aghast when Ford engineering policies dictated construction of a steel monocoque chassis as opposed to the aluminium monocoque 'pure racer' he espoused. Relations were particularly bad between him and Roy Lunn of Ford, whom the Brits in Ford Advanced Vehicles nicknamed 'Captain Queag' after the self-defeatingly loony autocratic central character played by Humphrey Bogart in 'The Caine Mutiny'...
I don't understand this, at all. The Lola Mk. 6 GT, that the GT40 was based on, had a steel monocoque that Broadley called "gratifyingly stiff". The first GT40 was over 10,000 lbs-ft per degree, according to David Phipps in C/D.
Perhaps, Roy Lunn ( an Englishman, ex AC, Aston Martin, Jowett ) should have been nicknamed "Captain Bligh" by those Brits in FAV, not after an American. Seems unfair.
In purebred motor racing terms Eric was right, they were wrong. The fact that Ford's people stuck to their guns and constructed ways of salvaging corporate pride and 'image' was a tribute to sometimes uncharacteristic American tenacity, but through 1964-65 the Ford GT programme caused us endless mirth.
John Wyer had patchily impressed with Aston Martin but he was never in truth as much a race management genius as the publicity - and in many respects his own self-image - happily assured us. He always had excellent management, logistics and engineering people around him who subsequently papered over some of the cracks his own autocracy created.
It all worked - eventually - but in the early period it was, as I say, and as many, many prime participants have confirmed to me...a costly joke. And one that Mr Ferrari HUGELY enjoyed....'til he got his come-uppance.
Mr. Ferrari must have had to have spent a lot of money to compete with Ford's racing program in those days. I doubt that he found spending that money "enjoyable".
DCN
#38
Posted 11 April 2003 - 02:10
Originally posted by Doug Nye
In purebred motor racing terms Eric was right, they were wrong. The fact that Ford's people stuck to their guns and constructed ways of salvaging corporate pride and 'image' was a tribute to sometimes uncharacteristic American tenacity, but through 1964-65 the Ford GT programme caused us endless mirth.
Thanks Doug. I did not know about the early days of program from this perspective.
What is your view on Shelby American's contribution to making the program a success. The development drivers, McLaren and Miles in particular, made an invaluable contribution to the Ford effort in my opinion.
#39
Posted 11 April 2003 - 03:03
Can anyone help me with a GT40 related question?
I've read that some roadsters were converted to spyders. Can anyone confirm that?
Dean Jeffries is currently restoring a sypder #109, and I'm trying to contact Ford to insure the restoration is properly documented prior to Pebble Beach in August, '03.
Thanks for your help.
First post here.
The Lola forerunner of the GT40

A dozen more pics for those interested:
Lo lo lo lo LOLA!
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#40
Posted 11 April 2003 - 03:47
#41
Posted 11 April 2003 - 06:09
#42
Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:44
Originally posted by JtP
The GT40 / Mk2 situation was discussed in Motorsport a few years back, I will see if I can find it. Although often referred to as GT40s, the Mk2s and Mk4s were not GT40s and were derived from the J car and designed in the States. The first true GT40 victory is 68.
The Mk2 wasn't based on the J-Car
#43
Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:30
Originally posted by Mike Argetsinger
Of course they won LeMans from 1966 through 1969. It was the 7-liter Mk2 that got the job done in '66 and a Mk4 in '67. When the rules were changed that year to get rid of the big Fords and the Chaparral they came back in Gulf Oil colors headed by John Wyer and won with what was essentially a Mk1 5-liter car in '68 and '69. I can attest to the fact that they were driven on the road during their "hay-day" in full race trim. I was arrested in one in June of 1967 on the New York State Thruway while exceeding the posted speed limit by an even 100 mph. And I was only clearing the plugs.
Priceless !!!


#44
Posted 11 April 2003 - 13:01
Forgive me if I missed it, but were some Roadsters converted to Spyders?
And saying 108-1111 were Spyders or Roadsters confuses me (often easily accomplished). It's the "or" that's thrown me.
Spyder count: Where are the remaining three apart from Jeffries?
Thanks for the discussion.
#45
Posted 11 April 2003 - 15:20
Originally posted by doc540
"108, 109, '110,' and 111 were all Spyders or Roadsters..."
Forgive me if I missed it, but were some Roadsters converted to Spyders?
And saying 108-1111 were Spyders or Roadsters confuses me (often easily accomplished). It's the "or" that's thrown me.
Spyder count: Where are the remaining three apart from Jeffries?
Thanks for the discussion.
These were all originally built as Spyder/Roadsters -- plus 112. If there were any others converted, I am unaware of it. J9 and J10 were also known as the "G7A" Can-Am cars. '110' was the McLaren-built chassis which became the 'GTX-1' (or whatever) and won the 1966 Sebring race, after a generally lacklustre Fall Pro Season in 1965.
108 was in the hands of John McCaw (1992) last I heard.
109 is the Dean Jefferies car, of course.
110 was said to be scrapped by SAI, but a chassis with that number is said to be lurking somewhere in the Keystone State...
111 was said to be scrapped by FAV
112 was a Spyder/Roadster converted back to coupe form -- I thought I had put this on my original list, sorry. Used on the road and now in the hands of Ken Senior in Surrey the last I heard.
J9 was a Mark IV converted to Can-Am and sold for $1 to Charlie & Kerry Agapiou in 1969....
J10 was also sold to the Agapiou brothers and sold to the combine of Holden/Velez/Portante and redone as a Mark IV
#46
Posted 12 April 2003 - 01:19

It is labeled: "Ford GT 40 Prototipo Miles-Ruby - La Mini Miniera - Italy Serie Speciale Limitata OXA01P."
Frank S
#47
Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:01
Originally posted by Frank S
Which is this?![]()
It is labeled: "Ford GT 40 Prototipo Miles-Ruby - La Mini Miniera - Italy Serie Speciale Limitata OXA01P."
Frank S
The 1966 Sebring Ford GTX-1, the chassis '110' that McLaren built.
#48
Posted 13 April 2003 - 15:22
#49
Posted 13 April 2003 - 17:30
http://world.std.com...ks/westwood.htm
#50
Posted 13 April 2003 - 18:43
yes, the gt4o was a exeptional car in his period, but it must be said, that this car was superior on very fast circuits with long straits and less curves,
but: it was not a fast car on circuits with many bends, demanding not for pure power, but more for good suspension design and less weight.
when i saw the gt 40 in 1964 at the 1000km at the Ring ( this was the first race of a gt40), you could see the speed differences to the ferarri, a it looked a bit tired. and all the following years, gt40s never were able to get pole in practice or during race, although formula 1 drivers were driving them, and even the only 2litre powered porsches and ferraris (dino) could beat them easily.
at targa florio it was the same, by the way.
Alan Mann , who also was involved in the development, later said, there were too many men developing the car, one working against the other, so he was very unsatisfied with all.
nevertheless, eric broadley and his mk 6 is the key to all (why always shown pictures of the ugly and completly unhistoric fake MK 6 as above), and at the end, the gt40 is shurly the sports-car of the sixties, as it was in good action from 1964 to 1969, what a time!!!!!!